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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » Ten Commandments monument must be removed from grounds of state Capitol, the Oklahoma Supreme Court ruled Tuesday

Ten Commandments monument must be removed from grounds of state Capitol, the Oklahoma Supreme Court ruled Tuesday

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dumpcare
TEOTWAWKI
boards of FL
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boards of FL

boards of FL

http://newsok.com/ten-commandments-monument-must-be-removed-from-grounds-of-state-capitol/article/5430792


The Ten Commandments monument must be removed from the grounds of the state Capitol, the Oklahoma Supreme Court ruled Tuesday.

In a 7-2 opinion the Supreme Court found the placement of the monument on the grounds of the state Capitol violate Article 2, Section 5, of the Oklahoma Constitution which prohibits the use of public money or property to directly or indirectly benefit a “church denomination or system of religion.”

The ruling overturned a decision by Oklahoma County District Judge Thomas Prince.

In its ruling the Supreme Court cited a clause in the Oklahoma Constitution that states: "No public money or property shall ever be appropriated, applied, donated, or used, directly or indirectly, for the use, benefit, or support of any sect, church, denomination, or system of religion, or for the use, benefit, or support of any priest, preacher, minister, or other religious teacher or dignitary, or sectarian institution as such."


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TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

An American monkey, after getting drunk on brandy, would never touch it again, and thus is much wiser than most men.
Charles Darwin

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

“Darwinism by itself did not produce the Holocaust, but without Darwinism... neither Hitler nor his Nazi followers would have had the necessary scientific underpinnings to convince themselves and their collaborators that one of the worlds greatest atrocities was really morally praiseworthy.”
― Richard Weikart, From Darwin to Hitler: Evolutionary Ethics, Eugenics, and Racism in Germany

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

“Why should I have to hide the fact that I don't believe there’s a supreme being? There’s no proof of it. There’s no harm in saying you’re an atheist. It doesn't mean you treat people any differently. I live by the Golden Rule to do unto others, as you'd want to be treated.

I just simply don't believe in religion, and I don’t believe necessarily that there’s a supreme being that watches over all of us. I follow the teachings of George Carlin. George said he worshipped the sun. He was a fellow atheist. I’m in good company … Albert Einstein, Mark Twain, Charles Darwin. It’s not like I’m not with good company and intelligent people. There have been some good, intelligent atheists who have lived in the world.”
― Jesse Ventura

dumpcare



You know I believe in separation of church and state, but to take something down that has been there for years and not hurting a damn soul I think this is getting a little ridiculous. Just say from this day forward you cannot do it.

Vikingwoman



It hurts people who do not believe in Christianity.

dumpcare



Are they having heart attacks, strokes, going blind from looking at it, contracting cancer or causing any other organ disfunction's?

They don't have to look at it and as I said let the one's stay that are already there and just don't put anymore up.

I could never count how many times in my lifetime I have been offended by something or someone and I am still alive.

I guess I am just too old to understand why one group of people will get offended over the any of this that has happened over the past week.

Let people be as long as they are not murdering, raping or stealing from you.

Just because one does not believe in what you believe does not make them a bad person.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Can we have Christian pride parades ?

dumpcare



Go to it, I don't care.

dumpcare



I don't push my beliefs on anyone (except for marijuana legalization lol) and I don't want someone pushing their beliefs on me (except for marijuana legalization lol).

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

ppaca wrote:I don't push my beliefs on anyone (except for marijuana legalization lol) and I don't want someone pushing their beliefs on me (except for marijuana legalization lol).

There should not be proselytizing one way or another way.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Goodness knows we don't want anyone changing their mind.

Guest


Guest

Isn't a statue...art?

Isn't the Bible...literature?

Surely the Endowment for the Arts will come to the rescue of the statue...yes?

2seaoat



Isn't a statue...art?

Isn't the Bible...literature?

Surely the Endowment for the Arts will come to the rescue of the statue...yes?

I think you mistakenly swallowed the dog whistle.

Vikingwoman



ppaca wrote:Are they having heart attacks, strokes, going blind from looking at it, contracting cancer or causing any other organ disfunction's?

They don't have to look at it and as I said let the one's stay that are already there and just don't put anymore up.

I could never count how many times in my lifetime I have been offended by something or someone and I am still alive.

I guess I am just too old to understand why one group of people will get offended over the any of this that has happened over the past week.

Let people be as long as they are not murdering, raping or stealing from you.

Just because one does not believe in what you believe does not make them a bad person.

Nobody said they were a bad person. There just shouldn't be any religious indoctrinations on state property. We already learned this from Alabama.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

What is a statue of the Ten Commandments doing on state property?

http://archive.adl.org/10comm/print.html

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Floridatexan wrote:What is a statue of the Ten Commandments doing on state property?  

http://archive.adl.org/10comm/print.html

It was like the original source of law....like Hammurabi's code...I mean after all most law is just a buncha thou shall nots...

Guest


Guest

2seaoat wrote:Isn't a statue...art?

Isn't the Bible...literature?

Surely the Endowment for the Arts will come to the rescue of the statue...yes?

I think you mistakenly swallowed the dog whistle.


If I do say so myself, I have a lovely alto voice. I rock harmony. Speaking voice is in no way irritating, squeaky, or pitchy. Valid questions.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

TEOTWAWKI wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:What is a statue of the Ten Commandments doing on state property?  

http://archive.adl.org/10comm/print.html

It was like the original source of law....like Hammurabi's code...I mean after all most law is just a buncha thou shall nots...

More like the Magna Carta.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/featured_documents/magna_carta/

The Magna Carta

Magna Carta, 1297: Widely viewed as one of the most important legal documents in the history of democracy. On display in the new David M. Rubenstein Gallery. Presented courtesy of David M. Rubenstein.
Magna Carta
"The democratic aspiration is no mere recent phase in human history . . . It was written in Magna Carta."

--Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 1941 Inaugural address

On June 15, 1215, in a field at Runnymede, King John affixed his seal to Magna Carta. Confronted by 40 rebellious barons, he consented to their demands in order to avert civil war. Just 10 weeks later, Pope Innocent III nullified the agreement, and England plunged into internal war.

Although Magna Carta failed to resolve the conflict between King John and his barons, it was reissued several times after his death. On display at the National Archives, courtesy of David M. Rubenstein, is one of four surviving originals of the 1297 Magna Carta. This version was entered into the official Statute Rolls of England.

Enduring Principles of Liberty
Magna Carta was written by a group of 13th-century barons to protect their rights and property against a tyrannical king. It is concerned with many practical matters and specific grievances relevant to the feudal system under which they lived. The interests of the common man were hardly apparent in the minds of the men who brokered the agreement. But there are two principles expressed in Magna Carta that resonate to this day:

"No freeman shall be taken, imprisoned, disseised, outlawed, banished, or in any way destroyed, nor will We proceed against or prosecute him, except by the lawful judgment of his peers or by the law of the land."

"To no one will We sell, to no one will We deny or delay, right or justice."

Inspiration for Americans
During the American Revolution, Magna Carta served to inspire and justify action in liberty’s defense. The colonists believed they were entitled to the same rights as Englishmen, rights guaranteed in Magna Carta. They embedded those rights into the laws of their states and later into the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

The Fifth Amendment to the Constitution ("no person shall . . . be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.") is a direct descendent of Magna Carta's guarantee of proceedings according to the "law of the land."

*************

boards of FL

boards of FL

SheWrites wrote:Isn't a statue...art?

Isn't the Bible...literature?

Surely the Endowment for the Arts will come to the rescue of the statue...yes?


I worship a god known as Juevaroksort. Oddly enough, Juevaroksort looks exactly like an even more obese version of Danny Divito, and he must never be portrayed clothed. That is blasphemy in my religion.

Being it the case that Oklahoma has allowed Christianity to display their work of art in the capitol, when can I have my statue of Juevaroksort installed?

I'd also like public school science classes to begin teaching my creation myth next to evolution and the big bang. You see, all that science stuff is baloney. In reality, Juevaroksort farted and *poof* here we are.

So who's ready to get this rolling? If I can't at least get equal representation for my religion in the Oklahoma state capitol, then that would be an example of the state showing preference to christianity over my religion.


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boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:Isn't a statue...art?

Isn't the Bible...literature?

Surely the Endowment for the Arts will come to the rescue of the statue...yes?


I worship a god known as Juevaroksort.  Oddly enough, Juevaroksort looks exactly like an even more obese version of Danny Divito, and he must never be portrayed clothed.  That is blasphemy in my religion.

Being it the case that Oklahoma has allowed Christianity to display their work of art in the capitol, when can I have my statue of Juevaroksort installed?  

I'd also like public school science classes to begin teaching my creation myth next to evolution and the big bang.  You see, all that science stuff is baloney.  In reality, Juevaroksort farted and *poof* here we are.  

So who's ready to get this rolling?  If I can't at least get equal representation for my religion in the Oklahoma state capitol, then that would be an example of the state showing preference to christianity over my religion.

No objection.

boards of FL

boards of FL

SheWrites wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:Isn't a statue...art?

Isn't the Bible...literature?

Surely the Endowment for the Arts will come to the rescue of the statue...yes?


I worship a god known as Juevaroksort.  Oddly enough, Juevaroksort looks exactly like an even more obese version of Danny Divito, and he must never be portrayed clothed.  That is blasphemy in my religion.

Being it the case that Oklahoma has allowed Christianity to display their work of art in the capitol, when can I have my statue of Juevaroksort installed?  

I'd also like public school science classes to begin teaching my creation myth next to evolution and the big bang.  You see, all that science stuff is baloney.  In reality, Juevaroksort farted and *poof* here we are.  

So who's ready to get this rolling?  If I can't at least get equal representation for my religion in the Oklahoma state capitol, then that would be an example of the state showing preference to christianity over my religion.

No objection.


Now imagine 666 more religions showing up with statue offerings.

Should the state capitol be a museum for religious sculptures, or should we simply recognize the fact that there is a separation of church and state; and then leave religious sculptures to be displayed in churches or anywhere else than government grounds?


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boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:Isn't a statue...art?

Isn't the Bible...literature?

Surely the Endowment for the Arts will come to the rescue of the statue...yes?


I worship a god known as Juevaroksort.  Oddly enough, Juevaroksort looks exactly like an even more obese version of Danny Divito, and he must never be portrayed clothed.  That is blasphemy in my religion.

Being it the case that Oklahoma has allowed Christianity to display their work of art in the capitol, when can I have my statue of Juevaroksort installed?  

I'd also like public school science classes to begin teaching my creation myth next to evolution and the big bang.  You see, all that science stuff is baloney.  In reality, Juevaroksort farted and *poof* here we are.  

So who's ready to get this rolling?  If I can't at least get equal representation for my religion in the Oklahoma state capitol, then that would be an example of the state showing preference to christianity over my religion.

No objection.


Now imagine 666 more religions showing up with statue offerings.  

Should the state capitol be a museum for religious sculptures, or should we simply recognize the fact that there is a separation of church and state; and then leave religious sculptures to be displayed in churches or anywhere else than government grounds?

We can continue down the outlandish trail. My post was tossing back what has been tossed out by "artists" in displaying human functions of Jesus as art.

But, I think it has always been, in the circle of law, a standard from where laws have originated - the Ten Commandments, Hamurabi, code, etc.

Same way we have replicas of the Magna Carta as a precursor to our Constitution.

Everyone, Christians included, need to take a step back from their emotions being so offended.

boards of FL

boards of FL

SheWrites wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:Isn't a statue...art?

Isn't the Bible...literature?

Surely the Endowment for the Arts will come to the rescue of the statue...yes?


I worship a god known as Juevaroksort.  Oddly enough, Juevaroksort looks exactly like an even more obese version of Danny Divito, and he must never be portrayed clothed.  That is blasphemy in my religion.

Being it the case that Oklahoma has allowed Christianity to display their work of art in the capitol, when can I have my statue of Juevaroksort installed?  

I'd also like public school science classes to begin teaching my creation myth next to evolution and the big bang.  You see, all that science stuff is baloney.  In reality, Juevaroksort farted and *poof* here we are.  

So who's ready to get this rolling?  If I can't at least get equal representation for my religion in the Oklahoma state capitol, then that would be an example of the state showing preference to christianity over my religion.

No objection.


Now imagine 666 more religions showing up with statue offerings.  

Should the state capitol be a museum for religious sculptures, or should we simply recognize the fact that there is a separation of church and state; and then leave religious sculptures to be displayed in churches or anywhere else than government grounds?

We can continue down the outlandish trail.  My post was tossing back what has been tossed out by "artists" in displaying human functions of Jesus as art.


But where do artists display that?  In a museum or on the grounds of the state capitol?

That is kinda the point here.


SheWrites wrote:But, I think it has always been, in the circle of law, a standard from where laws have originated - the Ten Commandments, Hamurabi, code, etc.  


Modern civilization and writing predate the bible by thousands of years.  Correctly stated, it is the bible that adopted the conventional wisdom that existed in the era in which it was written, not the other way around as you seem to be saying.  The bible wasn't the first book of mythology to talk about a great flood.  The bible wasn't the first book of mythology to talk about a god that took human form and was then sacrificed for all of us.  The bible wasn't the first book to suggest much of what it suggests.  And the bible also wasn't the first book that said you should stone gays to death, or that depicts the slaughter of women and children, or that explains the proper process of selling your daughter into slavery, etc.    The bible simply borrowed bits and pieces from already existing barbaric doctrines and mythology and then repackaged them...just like thousands upon thousands of other religions.

Feel free to fantasize over that sort of thing with like minded people in a church...just as comic book fans enjoy Comic Con...and start trek fans enjoy their conventions.  But, please, let's keep that away from capitol grounds.


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boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:Isn't a statue...art?

Isn't the Bible...literature?

Surely the Endowment for the Arts will come to the rescue of the statue...yes?


I worship a god known as Juevaroksort.  Oddly enough, Juevaroksort looks exactly like an even more obese version of Danny Divito, and he must never be portrayed clothed.  That is blasphemy in my religion.

Being it the case that Oklahoma has allowed Christianity to display their work of art in the capitol, when can I have my statue of Juevaroksort installed?  

I'd also like public school science classes to begin teaching my creation myth next to evolution and the big bang.  You see, all that science stuff is baloney.  In reality, Juevaroksort farted and *poof* here we are.  

So who's ready to get this rolling?  If I can't at least get equal representation for my religion in the Oklahoma state capitol, then that would be an example of the state showing preference to christianity over my religion.

No objection.


Now imagine 666 more religions showing up with statue offerings.  

Should the state capitol be a museum for religious sculptures, or should we simply recognize the fact that there is a separation of church and state; and then leave religious sculptures to be displayed in churches or anywhere else than government grounds?

We can continue down the outlandish trail.  My post was tossing back what has been tossed out by "artists" in displaying human functions of Jesus as art.


But where do artists display that?  In a museum or on the grounds of the state capitol?

That is kinda the point here.


SheWrites wrote:But, I think it has always been, in the circle of law, a standard from where laws have originated - the Ten Commandments, Hamurabi, code, etc.  


Modern civilization and writing predate the bible by thousands of years.  Correctly stated, it is the bible that adopted the conventional wisdom that existed in the era in which it was written, not the other way around as you seem to be saying.  The bible wasn't the first book of mythology to talk about a great flood.  The bible wasn't the first book of mythology to talk about a god that took human form and was then sacrificed for all of us.  The bible wasn't the first book to suggest much of what it suggests.  And the bible also wasn't the first book that said you should stone gays to death, or that depicts the slaughter of women and children, or that explains the proper process of selling your daughter into slavery, etc.    The bible simply borrowed bits and pieces from already existing barbaric doctrines and mythology and then repackaged them...just like thousands upon thousands of other religions.

Feel free to fantasize over that sort of thing with like minded people in a church...just as comic book fans enjoy Comic Con...and start trek fans enjoy their conventions.  But, please, let's keep that away from capitol grounds.

You're hate is showing, Boards.  You hate everything about Christians so much.  

It cannot be denied that prior to the codes of law in modern day countries there existed codes, whether you feel plausible or not, that bring us to where we are today with law.

To have the Ten Commandments, Hamurabi's code, or laws from Confusious...why the issue of having it on STATE grounds.  

And with man writing or not writing the law - from where does that bent for adjudicating human behavior come?

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