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How Obama lost Ramadi

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Sal
2seaoat
KarlRove
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1How Obama lost Ramadi Empty How Obama lost Ramadi 5/19/2015, 2:41 pm

KarlRove

KarlRove

http://www.meforum.org/5247/how-obama-lost-ramadi


The fall of Ramadi to the fighters of the Islamic State is a disaster for the Iraqi government of Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi. The taking of the city brings IS to just over 60 miles from Baghdad. In addition to showcasing the low caliber of the Iraqi security forces, the events surrounding the fall of the city lay bare the contradictions at the heart of Western policy in Iraq.

Prime Minister Abadi had ordered the garrison in Ramadi to stand firm. He hoped to see a successful stand in the city as a prelude to a government retaking of Anbar province, over half of which is still in IS hands.

But in a manner reminiscent of the fall of Mosul in June 2014, Iraqi security forces ignored orders to defend Ramadi, and fled eastwards to the neighboring town of Khalidiyeh. This left Ramadi to the tender mercies of the fighters of the Islamic State, who have reportedly since slaughtered at least 500 people. It is important to note that even U.S. airstrikes were not sufficient to prevent the debacle.

As of now, Shia militias are heading for the city's outskirts. A militia-led counterattack is expected in the coming days. A further advance eastwards by the Sunni jihadis, at least in the immediate future, is unlikely.

So what is behind the failure of the Iraqi security forces and the continued advance of the jihadis?

On the simplest level, the greater motivation and determination of the IS fighters explains their continued successes against the Iraqis. The jihadis are all volunteers. Not all of them are highly skilled fighters, but their level of motivation is correspondingly very high.


The White House is determined to relate to the government of Haider al-Abadi as the sole authority in Iraq.


By contrast, Iraqi soldiers are often serving far from home, defending communities for whom they have little concern. Most joined the army for the salary. Their unwillingness to engage against the murderous jihadis of the Islamic State is not hard to understand or explain.

However, this problem has now been apparent for nearly a year, ever since the Sunni jihadis first crashed across the border from Syria last June. So why has it not been addressed? The blame for this cannot be placed at the feet of low ranking Iraqi soldiers.

The blame lies at the policymaking level. The United States is committed to the territorial unity of Iraq. It therefore is determined to relate to the government of Haider al-Abadi as the sole authority in the country.

The problem with this stance is two-fold.

Firstly, it precludes providing arms directly to the elements who are most willing to use them against the Islamic State (namely, the Kurdish Peshmerga and further south, the elements among the Sunni tribes whom the U.S. aided during the "surge" in the 2006-2007 period).

In the north, this has not prevented the Kurds from successfully defending the area west of Erbil (with the vital assistance of coalition air power). But it has served to keep the Kurds militarily dependent on the coalition, thus reducing the possibility of their making a bid for independence from Baghdad in the immediate future.


The Obama administration refuses to directly arm pro-Western elements in Iraq most willing to fight IS.


Secondly, and more importantly, the U.S. commitment to the territorial unity of Iraq is leading to a willful blindness regarding the actual nature of the government in Baghdad and its true sources of strength and support.

The supposedly legitimate armed forces of Baghdad are, as has been witnessed again in Ramadi, not fit for the purpose. The true defenders of Baghdad and of the government are right now heading toward Ramadi. They are the forces of the "Hashd al-Shaabi" (popular mobilization). They are the Shia militias, supported by Iran. These militias are the wall behind which the Amadi government shelters.

The West insists on maintaining the illusion that the government in Baghdad is something other than a Shia sectarian-dominated entity in the process of entering a de facto military alliance with the Iranians. This stubbornness is producing the current absurd situation in which Western air power is being used in support of Shia Islamism.

It is important to understand that this is not taking place because there is no other option for stopping the advance of the Islamic State. There is another, more effective option: direct aid to the Kurds, and to the Sunni tribes further south.

This support of Shia Islamism is taking place because of the conviction in Western capitals — most importantly, of course, Washington, D.C. — that the advance of Iran and the building of Iranian strength in Lebanon and in the collapsed states of Iraq and Syria is not a phenomenon to be prevented.

Rather, Western capitals believe that growing Iranian influence can be accommodated and perhaps even allied with.

This conviction combined with the desire to maintain the fictions of "Iraq" and "Syria" are the foundations of current policy. For these reasons, in the coming days we will witness U.S. and Western air power, astonishingly, supporting Shia Islamist militants as they battle with Sunni Islamist militants. Meanwhile, overtly pro-Western forces further north lack arms.

The Islamic State just took Ramadi. In Western capitals where Middle East policy is made, folly is engaged on a similarly triumphant march.


Jonathan Spyer is Director of the Rubin Center for Research in International Affairs and a fellow at the Middle East Forum. He is the author of The Transforming Fire: The Rise of the Israel-Islamist Conflict (Continuum, 2011).

2How Obama lost Ramadi Empty Re: How Obama lost Ramadi 5/19/2015, 3:43 pm

2seaoat



Disengagement means disengagement......we can give cursory support but towns will fall or be taken back by the people who live in the country.....end of story.....American blood is no longer part of the equation, or is the thought of some type of macho response to Obama losing territory going to make the guy who won by landslides both elections reengage in Iraq.....cursory handfuls of advisors, and diminishing line command.....see ya.....Iraq.

3How Obama lost Ramadi Empty Re: How Obama lost Ramadi 5/19/2015, 4:16 pm

Sal

Sal

Don't worry.

Iran will take it back.

4How Obama lost Ramadi Empty Re: How Obama lost Ramadi 5/19/2015, 5:08 pm

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

2seaoat wrote:Disengagement means disengagement......we can give cursory support but towns will fall or be taken back by the people who live in the country.....end of story.....American blood is no longer part of the equation, or is the thought of some type of macho response to Obama losing territory going to make the guy who won by landslides both elections reengage in Iraq.....cursory handfuls of advisors, and diminishing line command.....see ya.....Iraq.

cheerscheerscheerscheerscheerscheerscheers cheers cheers  cheers  cheers  cheers  cheers  cheers  

Yes, and Iraq is proving to be a millstone around the neck of every GOP contender for 2016. No less than two opinion pieces in today's PNJ highlighted Jeb Bush's gaffes and flip-flops on the subject after Megyn Kelly of Fox News asked him bluntly last week whether he thought invading Iraq was a good idea.

Iraq.... Dubya's legacy and his gift to Democrats in 2016....
Shocked

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

5How Obama lost Ramadi Empty Re: How Obama lost Ramadi 5/19/2015, 6:10 pm

KarlRove

KarlRove

Sal wrote:Don't worry.

Iran will take it back.

Shia's are a minority in the Muslim world. I doubt it and when was the last time Iran fought and won anything? They couldn't even beat Iraq and it's legion of 15 year olds from 1980-88.

6How Obama lost Ramadi Empty Re: How Obama lost Ramadi 5/19/2015, 6:11 pm

KarlRove

KarlRove

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
2seaoat wrote:Disengagement means disengagement......we can give cursory support but towns will fall or be taken back by the people who live in the country.....end of story.....American blood is no longer part of the equation, or is the thought of some type of macho response to Obama losing territory going to make the guy who won by landslides both elections reengage in Iraq.....cursory handfuls of advisors, and diminishing line command.....see ya.....Iraq.

cheerscheerscheerscheerscheerscheerscheers cheers cheers  cheers  cheers  cheers  cheers  cheers  

Yes, and Iraq is proving to be a millstone around the neck of every GOP contender for 2016. No less than two opinion pieces in today's PNJ highlighted Jeb Bush's gaffes and flip-flops on the subject after Megyn Kelly of Fox News asked him bluntly last week whether he thought invading Iraq was a good idea.

Iraq.... Dubya's legacy and his gift to Democrats in 2016....
Shocked

You forgot, HILLIONAIRE voted for Iraq too.

7How Obama lost Ramadi Empty Re: How Obama lost Ramadi 5/19/2015, 6:11 pm

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

KarlRove wrote:http://www.meforum.org/5247/how-obama-lost-ramadi


The fall of Ramadi to the fighters of the Islamic State is a disaster for the Iraqi government of Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi. The taking of the city brings IS to just over 60 miles from Baghdad. In addition to showcasing the low caliber of the Iraqi security forces, the events surrounding the fall of the city lay bare the contradictions at the heart of Western policy in Iraq.

Prime Minister Abadi had ordered the garrison in Ramadi to stand firm. He hoped to see a successful stand in the city as a prelude to a government retaking of Anbar province, over half of which is still in IS hands.

But in a manner reminiscent of the fall of Mosul in June 2014, Iraqi security forces ignored orders to defend Ramadi, and fled eastwards to the neighboring town of Khalidiyeh. This left Ramadi to the tender mercies of the fighters of the Islamic State, who have reportedly since slaughtered at least 500 people. It is important to note that even U.S. airstrikes were not sufficient to prevent the debacle.

As of now, Shia militias are heading for the city's outskirts. A militia-led counterattack is expected in the coming days. A further advance eastwards by the Sunni jihadis, at least in the immediate future, is unlikely.

So what is behind the failure of the Iraqi security forces and the continued advance of the jihadis?

On the simplest level, the greater motivation and determination of the IS fighters explains their continued successes against the Iraqis. The jihadis are all volunteers. Not all of them are highly skilled fighters, but their level of motivation is correspondingly very high.


The White House is determined to relate to the government of Haider al-Abadi as the sole authority in Iraq.


By contrast, Iraqi soldiers are often serving far from home, defending communities for whom they have little concern. Most joined the army for the salary. Their unwillingness to engage against the murderous jihadis of the Islamic State is not hard to understand or explain.

However, this problem has now been apparent for nearly a year, ever since the Sunni jihadis first crashed across the border from Syria last June. So why has it not been addressed? The blame for this cannot be placed at the feet of low ranking Iraqi soldiers.

The blame lies at the policymaking level. The United States is committed to the territorial unity of Iraq. It therefore is determined to relate to the government of Haider al-Abadi as the sole authority in the country.

The problem with this stance is two-fold.

Firstly, it precludes providing arms directly to the elements who are most willing to use them against the Islamic State (namely, the Kurdish Peshmerga and further south, the elements among the Sunni tribes whom the U.S. aided during the "surge" in the 2006-2007 period).

In the north, this has not prevented the Kurds from successfully defending the area west of Erbil (with the vital assistance of coalition air power). But it has served to keep the Kurds militarily dependent on the coalition, thus reducing the possibility of their making a bid for independence from Baghdad in the immediate future.


The Obama administration refuses to directly arm pro-Western elements in Iraq most willing to fight IS.


Secondly, and more importantly, the U.S. commitment to the territorial unity of Iraq is leading to a willful blindness regarding the actual nature of the government in Baghdad and its true sources of strength and support.

The supposedly legitimate armed forces of Baghdad are, as has been witnessed again in Ramadi, not fit for the purpose. The true defenders of Baghdad and of the government are right now heading toward Ramadi. They are the forces of the "Hashd al-Shaabi" (popular mobilization). They are the Shia militias, supported by Iran. These militias are the wall behind which the Amadi government shelters.

The West insists on maintaining the illusion that the government in Baghdad is something other than a Shia sectarian-dominated entity in the process of entering a de facto military alliance with the Iranians. This stubbornness is producing the current absurd situation in which Western air power is being used in support of Shia Islamism.

It is important to understand that this is not taking place because there is no other option for stopping the advance of the Islamic State. There is another, more effective option: direct aid to the Kurds, and to the Sunni tribes further south.

This support of Shia Islamism is taking place because of the conviction in Western capitals — most importantly, of course, Washington, D.C. — that the advance of Iran and the building of Iranian strength in Lebanon and in the collapsed states of Iraq and Syria is not a phenomenon to be prevented.

Rather, Western capitals believe that growing Iranian influence can be accommodated and perhaps even allied with.

This conviction combined with the desire to maintain the fictions of "Iraq" and "Syria" are the foundations of current policy. For these reasons, in the coming days we will witness U.S. and Western air power, astonishingly, supporting Shia Islamist militants as they battle with Sunni Islamist militants. Meanwhile, overtly pro-Western forces further north lack arms.

The Islamic State just took Ramadi. In Western capitals where Middle East policy is made, folly is engaged on a similarly triumphant march.


Jonathan Spyer is Director of the Rubin Center for Research in International Affairs and a fellow at the Middle East Forum. He is the author of The Transforming Fire: The Rise of the Israel-Islamist Conflict (Continuum, 2011).

The author is also a British Zionist who joined the IDF to fight for Israel in Lebanon.

8How Obama lost Ramadi Empty Re: How Obama lost Ramadi 5/19/2015, 7:50 pm

Markle

Markle

KarlRove wrote:http://www.meforum.org/5247/how-obama-lost-ramadi


The fall of Ramadi to the fighters of the Islamic State is a disaster for the Iraqi government of Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi. The taking of the city brings IS to just over 60 miles from Baghdad. In addition to showcasing the low caliber of the Iraqi security forces, the events surrounding the fall of the city lay bare the contradictions at the heart of Western policy in Iraq.

[...]

Jonathan Spyer is Director of the Rubin Center for Research in International Affairs and a fellow at the Middle East Forum. He is the author of The Transforming Fire: The Rise of the Israel-Islamist Conflict (Continuum, 2011).

Iraq asked for help, after semi-retired President Obama declared victory. President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton refused.

9How Obama lost Ramadi Empty Re: How Obama lost Ramadi 5/19/2015, 8:19 pm

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

Markle wrote:Iraq asked for help, after semi-retired President Obama declared victory.  President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton refused.

Please make sure this becomes a part of the Republican platform for 2016.... So we can laugh at you while the electoral votes are counted the evening of November 8, 2016.  Razz

Before you can blame President Obama for America's failure in Iraq, the Republican presidential contenders need to come to a consensus concerning whether it was a good idea to invade Iraq in the first place. They all seem to be befuddled over how to answer simple questions on the subject--notice all of the backtracking and doublespeak coming from Jeb Bush while answering Fox News' Megyn Kelly's questions last week!
Embarassed

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

10How Obama lost Ramadi Empty Re: How Obama lost Ramadi 5/19/2015, 8:32 pm

Markle

Markle

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
Markle wrote:Iraq asked for help, after semi-retired President Obama declared victory.  President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton refused.

Please make sure this becomes a part of the Republican platform for 2016.... So we can laugh at you while the electoral votes are counted the evening of November 8, 2016.  Razz

Before you can blame President Obama for America's failure in Iraq, the Republican presidential contenders need to come to a consensus concerning whether it was a good idea to invade Iraq in the first place. They all seem to be befuddled over how to answer simple questions on the subject--notice all of the backtracking and doublespeak coming from Jeb Bush while answering Fox News' Megyn Kelly's questions last week! Embarassed

What semi-retired President Obama and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has done to cause the chaos in the Middle East has nothing to do with the Republican Candidates.

Good try with the red herring!

11How Obama lost Ramadi Empty Re: How Obama lost Ramadi 5/19/2015, 9:30 pm

2seaoat



What semi-retired President Obama and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has done to cause the chaos in the Middle East has nothing to do with the Republican Candidates.

You are correct. America voted for Democrats and disengagement....they won by a landslide.....so yes, Republican candidates have nothing to do with disengagement, or what the American people desire.

12How Obama lost Ramadi Empty Re: How Obama lost Ramadi 5/19/2015, 9:51 pm

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

Markle wrote:What semi-retired President Obama and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has done to cause the chaos in the Middle East has nothing to do with the Republican Candidates.

As I said previously, please make sure this becomes a part of the Republican platform for 2016.... So we can laugh at you while the electoral votes are counted the evening of November 8, 2016.  Razz

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

13How Obama lost Ramadi Empty Re: How Obama lost Ramadi 5/19/2015, 11:00 pm

Markle

Markle

2seaoat wrote:What semi-retired President Obama and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has done to cause the chaos in the Middle East has nothing to do with the Republican Candidates.

You are correct.  America voted for Democrats and disengagement....they won by a landslide.....so yes, Republican candidates have nothing to do with disengagement, or what the American people desire.

That's why it is called LEADERSHIP. Something semi-retired President Obama knows nothing about.

President Obama ignored each and every one of his advisors, pulls everyone out of Iraq and declares victory. Iraq now is under the control of ISIS.

President Obama also promised that he would pull out all our troops from Afghanistan. NOW President Obama is NOT pulling all our troops out. Think maybe he learned from his failure in Iraq?

14How Obama lost Ramadi Empty Re: How Obama lost Ramadi 5/19/2015, 11:35 pm

KarlRove

KarlRove

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
Markle wrote:Iraq asked for help, after semi-retired President Obama declared victory.  President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton refused.

Please make sure this becomes a part of the Republican platform for 2016.... So we can laugh at you while the electoral votes are counted the evening of November 8, 2016.  Razz

Before you can blame President Obama for America's failure in Iraq, the Republican presidential contenders need to come to a consensus concerning whether it was a good idea to invade Iraq in the first place. They all seem to be befuddled over how to answer simple questions on the subject--notice all of the backtracking and doublespeak coming from Jeb Bush while answering Fox News' Megyn Kelly's questions last week!
Embarassed

Doesn't matter we can post a laundry list of DEMS who supported it to include the wench Hillionaire.

15How Obama lost Ramadi Empty Re: How Obama lost Ramadi 5/19/2015, 11:36 pm

KarlRove

KarlRove

2seaoat wrote:What semi-retired President Obama and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has done to cause the chaos in the Middle East has nothing to do with the Republican Candidates.

You are correct.  America voted for Democrats and disengagement....they won by a landslide.....so yes, Republican candidates have nothing to do with disengagement, or what the American people desire.

But lost the house and then the senate....meaning they wanted a counter to the MORON at 1600 Penn Ave.

16How Obama lost Ramadi Empty Re: How Obama lost Ramadi 5/19/2015, 11:38 pm

KarlRove

KarlRove

Not one Obama supporter can counter the claim of the article. They keep pointing at the choices of W (supported by Dems) and looking to 2016 when their leading candidate (Hillionaire) also supported going into Iraq.

Hypocrisy? Hell yes.

17How Obama lost Ramadi Empty Re: How Obama lost Ramadi 5/19/2015, 11:56 pm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

KarlRove wrote:

when was the last time Iran fought and won anything? They couldn't even beat Iraq and it's legion of 15 year olds from 1980-88.

Huh? Then why in fuck is Iran our boogeyman? It was a republican president who called it one of the "axis of evil". Along with Iraq and North Korea if I remember correctly.
And now you're telling me all this fox news and republican hysteria over Iran is just bullshit?
I thought so. Thanks for clearing that up.

18How Obama lost Ramadi Empty Re: How Obama lost Ramadi 5/20/2015, 12:12 am

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

Bob wrote:Huh?  Then why in fuck is Iran our boogeyman?  It was a republican president who called it one of the "axis of evil". Along with Iraq and North Korea if I remember correctly.  
And now you're telling me all this fox news and republican hysteria over Iran is just bullshit?
I thought so.  Thanks for clearing that up.

Very good points, Bob. The only reason Iran is the boogeyman to Karl is because Israel is demanding that Iran be attacked, and Karl gives Israel's interests first billing over common sense. He loves Israel more than he loves his own country. It's that right-wing evangelical religious dogma at work in him.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

19How Obama lost Ramadi Empty Re: How Obama lost Ramadi 5/20/2015, 2:16 am

Markle

Markle

2seaoat wrote:What semi-retired President Obama and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has done to cause the chaos in the Middle East has nothing to do with the Republican Candidates.

You are correct.  America voted for Democrats and disengagement....they won by a landslide.....so yes, Republican candidates have nothing to do with disengagement, or what the American people desire.

Why then has semi-retired President Obama refuse to comply with the other wishes of the voters?

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