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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » Comrade Obama not convincing Comrade Castro and Cuba to change

Comrade Obama not convincing Comrade Castro and Cuba to change

+3
Sal
nadalfan
KarlRove
7 posters

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KarlRove

KarlRove

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/cuba-leaves-talks-us-ties-insisting-wont-major-224809935.html

KarlRove

KarlRove

Bump

Guest


Guest

Look at cuba's main allies and partners... russia and venezuela. Both struggling to just keep their own countries afloat.

It's actually more likely that obama saved the communist dictatorship in cuba... rather than helped the proletariat.

If he had done nothing... it would've been more effective. Depending on the outcome you desire I guess.

nadalfan



KarlRove wrote:https://ca.news.yahoo.com/cuba-leaves-talks-us-ties-insisting-wont-major-224809935.html


What is it with you republicans and the expectation of immediate gratification?  Do you really expect the Castros to completely change things in their country overnight or admit they need to?  These kinds of changes take time.  Your views are so simple minded and childish.  Or was this just a lame attempt at a petty attack on President Obama?


http://www.newsweek.com/normalizing-relations-cuba-unfinished-agenda-303232

Sal

Sal

PkrBum wrote:
If he had done nothing... it would've been more effective.

Yah ...

... that's been so effective for the past 50+ years.

Results matter.

KarlRove

KarlRove

Nothing has been done. Cuba still sucks, they
Continue to im prison people who speak of democracy,
And they
Just crossed another Obama Red
Line

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

Karl would bitch about Obama if he changed the color of his shirt.....His Obama-hate runs really deep. Razz

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

2seaoat



Your views are so simple minded and childish.

I could not have summed up their behavior better. Kids we are going to Disneyworld. PK......are we there yet......Pace......we are two hundred miles from Disneyworld.......static child like thinking.

Guest


Guest

2seaoat wrote: Your views are so simple minded and childish.

I could not have summed up their behavior better. Kids we are going to Disneyworld. PK......are we there yet......Pace......we are two hundred miles from Disneyworld.......static child like thinking.

I'm sure it helps you to slight ideas that don't fall into line with your progressive all controlling central govt.

But even you must know it's just mental masturbation and propaganda... right?

2seaoat



Communism is dead on arrival. Dictatorships will never die, but they will be replaced. The monopoly that the Castro family had on ruling Cuba was going to die without any intervention or association with the United States. Young people are aware. I watched the young Cuban who was rookie of the year for the White Sox. He easily made the transition. The transition in Cuba is underway, and I think that baseball has a great deal to do with the same. Cubans are kicking asz in American baseball, and like any baseball fan, it brings people together. I was in fifth grade during the Cuban missle crisis. The crisis is over and sane people have finally given all of us another direction. It should be good for Cuba, and it should be good for Pensacola where our port will hopefully return to the leading trade port with Cuba as it was before the Crisis.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Castro doesn't trust the U.S. Why in hell should he? After he freed Cuba from the American puppet Batista he came to NY to encourage relations with the U.S. But big business wouldn't have it, because Castro had nationalized the sugar, banana, telephone systems and rail systems, all of which had been owned and operated by fat, bloodsucking U.S. corporations protected by business clauses we created when the Spanish surrendered the place to us in 1898. Led by assholes like Henry Cabot Lodge and the insane John Birch Society, and pressured by ATT, and United Fruit (which was controlled by Papa Kennedy) the U.S. insisted Castro return the operation of those industries or go fuck off.

Castro went back to Cuba and the Soviet Union offered him money for sugar and oil. After which we've spent fifty years trying to murder Castro, including the disastrous Bay of Pigs invasion.

Our CIA has spent fortunes and years of sending agents and anti-Castro Cubans to kill Castro, wreck the Cuban economy etc. And we've maintained sanctions and trade embargoes for which the Cuban people have paid dearly.
Castro's iron hand against revolutionary activism was indeed the product of our actions. He survived by being ruthless, and the fact he survived suggests he may have been correct.

And you wonder why Castro doesn't offer to change everything to satisfy Obama and the U.S.?

U.S.-Cuban relations have at last, fortunately for both sides, begun. But we have a long way to go.

Reality.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

PkrBum wrote:Look at cuba's main allies and partners... russia and venezuela. Both struggling to just keep their own countries afloat.

It's actually more likely that obama saved the communist dictatorship in cuba... rather than helped the proletariat.

If he had done nothing... it would've been more effective. Depending on the outcome you desire I guess.

Your outlook of Cuba's relationships in Latin America are outdated. He has good relations with several countries south of our border, including Mexico.

And you omit recognizing that Raul Castro has recently relaxed laws that prevented property ownership, small businesses, etc. The point is, hardcore communist dictatorship is lessening in Cuba (as well as in China).

I'm 100% for the U.S. and Cuba to resume trade and to relax all travel restrictions. In my whole life I've never seen harsh sanctions and embargoes result in anything possible for the U.S. But virtually every time we begin to trade with a Communist country, the threats to both sides lessen. Look where we are with China and Vietnam. That's where we could be with Cuba.

Who knows, maybe after a few years of trade we might even get to trust one another.

Markle

Markle

Wordslinger wrote:
PkrBum wrote:Look at cuba's main allies and partners... russia and venezuela. Both struggling to just keep their own countries afloat.

It's actually more likely that obama saved the communist dictatorship in cuba... rather than helped the proletariat.

If he had done nothing... it would've been more effective. Depending on the outcome you desire I guess.

Your outlook of Cuba's relationships in Latin America are outdated.  He has good relations with several countries south of our border, including Mexico.  

And you omit recognizing that Raul Castro has recently relaxed laws that prevented property ownership, small businesses, etc.  The point is, hardcore communist dictatorship is lessening in Cuba (as well as in China).

I'm 100% for the U.S. and Cuba to resume trade and to relax all travel restrictions.  In my whole life I've never seen harsh sanctions and embargoes result in anything possible for the U.S.  But virtually every time we begin to trade with a Communist country, the threats to both sides lessen.  Look where we are with China and Vietnam.  That's where we could be with Cuba.  

Who knows, maybe after a few years of trade we might even get to trust one another.

China is our most dangerous enemy, something which they make no effort to conceal. Good to know that's where we are with Cuba.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Markle wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:
PkrBum wrote:Look at cuba's main allies and partners... russia and venezuela. Both struggling to just keep their own countries afloat.

It's actually more likely that obama saved the communist dictatorship in cuba... rather than helped the proletariat.

If he had done nothing... it would've been more effective. Depending on the outcome you desire I guess.

Your outlook of Cuba's relationships in Latin America are outdated.  He has good relations with several countries south of our border, including Mexico.  

And you omit recognizing that Raul Castro has recently relaxed laws that prevented property ownership, small businesses, etc.  The point is, hardcore communist dictatorship is lessening in Cuba (as well as in China).

I'm 100% for the U.S. and Cuba to resume trade and to relax all travel restrictions.  In my whole life I've never seen harsh sanctions and embargoes result in anything possible for the U.S.  But virtually every time we begin to trade with a Communist country, the threats to both sides lessen.  Look where we are with China and Vietnam.  That's where we could be with Cuba.  

Who knows, maybe after a few years of trade we might even get to trust one another.

China is our most dangerous enemy, something which they make no effort to conceal.  Good to know that's where we are with Cuba.


Goodness, you really are Semi-sane. Considering our debt to China, if they were our worst enemy we'd already be totally bankrupt!Who the hell do you think owns Walmart? China supplies the majority of goods for nearly all our retail chains. Economically they're our biggest trading partner. Reality.

Screw Amerika Inc.! Corporate control of our government through campaign financing.

Guest


Guest

Wordslinger wrote:
PkrBum wrote:Look at cuba's main allies and partners... russia and venezuela. Both struggling to just keep their own countries afloat.

It's actually more likely that obama saved the communist dictatorship in cuba... rather than helped the proletariat.

If he had done nothing... it would've been more effective. Depending on the outcome you desire I guess.

Your outlook of Cuba's relationships in Latin America are outdated. He has good relations with several countries south of our border, including Mexico.

And you omit recognizing that Raul Castro has recently relaxed laws that prevented property ownership, small businesses, etc. The point is, hardcore communist dictatorship is lessening in Cuba (as well as in China).

I'm 100% for the U.S. and Cuba to resume trade and to relax all travel restrictions. In my whole life I've never seen harsh sanctions and embargoes result in anything possible for the U.S. But virtually every time we begin to trade with a Communist country, the threats to both sides lessen. Look where we are with China and Vietnam. That's where we could be with Cuba.

Who knows, maybe after a few years of trade we might even get to trust one another.

Oh... some semblance of ownership like we have? Control is effective ownership... what ideology does that match?

2seaoat



China is our most dangerous enemy, something which they make no effort to conceal. Good to know that's where we are with Cuba.

Dangerous? How so?

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

...China is our most dangerous enemy, something which they make no effort to conceal....

It is so funny to see that statement come from the keyboard of a wingnut......

Where was China when Br'er Rabbit (George W. Bush) was punching the Tar Baby (Iraq)?

I always said that the Chinese were sitting back and laughing their asses off while we spent $1.5 trillion making Iraq safe for ISIS to rise up. They grew economically and militarily stronger, while we made ourselves weaker. They were the real enemy all along.

All we did was help resurrect the flagging Iraqi oil industry so China could step-in and become the Iraqi government's largest oil customer. And they buy the oil with cold-hard cash earned from the cheap shit they sell in America's retail market. A win-win for the Chinaman.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

PkrBum wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:
PkrBum wrote:Look at cuba's main allies and partners... russia and venezuela. Both struggling to just keep their own countries afloat.

It's actually more likely that obama saved the communist dictatorship in cuba... rather than helped the proletariat.

If he had done nothing... it would've been more effective. Depending on the outcome you desire I guess.

Your outlook of Cuba's relationships in Latin America are outdated.  He has good relations with several countries south of our border, including Mexico.  

And you omit recognizing that Raul Castro has recently relaxed laws that prevented property ownership, small businesses, etc.  The point is, hardcore communist dictatorship is lessening in Cuba (as well as in China).

I'm 100% for the U.S. and Cuba to resume trade and to relax all travel restrictions.  In my whole life I've never seen harsh sanctions and embargoes result in anything possible for the U.S.  But virtually every time we begin to trade with a Communist country, the threats to both sides lessen.  Look where we are with China and Vietnam.  That's where we could be with Cuba.  

Who knows, maybe after a few years of trade we might even get to trust one another.

Oh... some semblance of ownership like we have? Control is effective ownership... what ideology does that match?

Pkrbum: Not sure I really understand your comment ... please expand.

2seaoat



Pkrbum: Not sure I really understand your comment ... please expand.

He thinks we are being smart aszes when we respond honestly that he is not making sense. Some would try to expand and enter an intelligent conversation to clarify.....some would post one sentence circular logic non responsive responses......I do not understand his reluctance to enter into an intelligent conversation.

Guest


Guest

I'll give you a pass word... but not seagoat. He and I have been over this over and over.

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_of_fascism

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

PkrBum wrote:I'll give you a pass word... but not seagoat. He and I have been over this over and over.

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_of_fascism

Thanks. I copied the following from your Wikipedia source:

"Fascism operated from a Social Darwinist view of human relations. The aim was to promote superior individuals and weed out the weak.[6] In terms of economic practice, this meant promoting the interests of successful businessmen while destroying trade unions and other organizations of the working class."[7]

It would seem that by their actions and determined zeal to destroy all trade unions and organizations of the working class, republicanism and fascism share similar attributes. Only the oligarchs win when unions are destroyed.
Whose side are you on Pkrbum, the middleclass or the 1%?

However, the theme of this thread deals with opening trade and diplomatic relations with Cuba. The premise, of course, is that through unrestricted travel and tourism, combined with trade that benefits both countries, the remnants of some 50 years' of antagonism will wear away and be replaced by trust. Clearly such a transition is optimistic instead of antagonistic. Why do you oppose it?

Also, it occurs to me there's way too much debate on this forum where opponents hurl labels like communist, socialist, fascist, libertarian, etc. as weapons. In truth, America is involved and has been involved with democratic socialism since the advent of the WPA and other poverty-fighting governmental organizations during the Great Depression. Indeed, most of the greatest infrastructure -- including Hoover Dam -- were built by the government to serve the people. Look at our failing infrastructure today -- where has our national spirit gone?





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