Some of the most destructive qualities of religions ...

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Yes many of those were "alterations" by man for their own purposes. Perhaps we can exist without honoring a creator or seeking to know his will. Throughout history in all tribes men have worshiped something outside themselves. Today's "chosen" Ashkenazi Jews were at one time Phallus worshipers until their Kagan, (leader) decided they needed a modernized faith and he chose Judaism...The druids had their faith incorporated into Catholicism...the whole process of how we got where we are today could fill dozens of books.....people seem to need to revere something....

Wordslinger wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Yes many of those were "alterations" by man for their own purposes. Perhaps we can exist without honoring a creator or seeking to know his will. Throughout history in all tribes men have worshiped something outside themselves. Today's "chosen" Ashkenazi Jews were at one time Phallus worshipers until their Kagan, (leader) decided they needed a modernized faith and he chose Judaism...The druids had their faith incorporated into Catholicism...the whole process of how we got where we are today could fill dozens of books.....people seem to need to revere something....

I fully agree with what you've just stated.  The thing is, life is always a challenge and all of us hope for some God or Gods to help us out of our problems.  

It's why so many of us wear or carry a lucky charm.

But lucky charms, and false God's often fail.

We need to work together to solve our problems ourselves and stop relying on mystical bullshit.

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Throughout history in all tribes men have worshiped something outside themselves.

Wordslinger wrote:

1.First, I push my anti-theist comments because I truly believe religions are evil and destructive to cultural harmony.

2. Remarks about me fearing God, etc. or searching for some ethereal omnipotent entity are silly.  

3. God doesn't exist so why in hell would I fear her or him or them, or it?

Here are a number of good reasons why religions are harmful:

http://www.alternet.org/belief/12-worst-ideas-religion-has-unleashed-world?akid=12713.260394._8kPWu&rd=1&src=newsletter1030727&t=6

Have a good day

boards of FL wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Throughout history in all tribes men have worshiped something outside themselves.

Not all.  Just the ignorant ones that had only a faint understanding of the natural world.  

The more we know about the natural world, the less gaps there are to fill supernatural explanation.  1000's of years ago, gaps were everywhere because we knew so little.

Today, we know alot. And, today, when a new supernatural explanation emerges that seeks to explain a gap, we correctly label that as a cult.

Today's mainstream religions are just cults that have been grandfathered in to modern society with a special title:  religion.

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

boards of FL wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Throughout history in all tribes men have worshiped something outside themselves.

Not all.  Just the ignorant ones that had only a faint understanding of the natural world.  

The more we know about the natural world, the less gaps there are to fill supernatural explanation.  1000's of years ago, gaps were everywhere because we knew so little.

Today, we know alot. And, today, when a new supernatural explanation emerges that seeks to explain a gap, we correctly label that as a cult.

Today's mainstream religions are just cults that have been grandfathered in to modern society with a special title:  religion.

Quantum Physics if it shows us anything it shows us there are forces outside of observable nature related to the properties of matter and energy....your 5 senses are still quite limited . Not that that will stop you from being cocksure in your dogma.

boards of FL wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

boards of FL wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Throughout history in all tribes men have worshiped something outside themselves.

Not all.  Just the ignorant ones that had only a faint understanding of the natural world.  

The more we know about the natural world, the less gaps there are to fill supernatural explanation.  1000's of years ago, gaps were everywhere because we knew so little.

Today, we know alot. And, today, when a new supernatural explanation emerges that seeks to explain a gap, we correctly label that as a cult.

Today's mainstream religions are just cults that have been grandfathered in to modern society with a special title:  religion.

Quantum Physics if it shows us anything it shows us there are forces outside of observable nature related to the properties of matter and energy....your 5 senses are still quite limited . Not that that will stop you from being cocksure in your dogma.

Quantum physics shows us something.  Yes.  And our five senses are limited.  I agree.  

Neither of these things support the supernatural.  

The only thing that I am "cocksure" of is that the more we learn, the more questions we have.  There is much that we do not know.  It is better to concede that there is a lot that we don't know so that we can begin an honest attempt to learn.  This is the antithesis of religion - which tells you to stop asking questions, stop learning, stop thinking, and just have faith in an explanation that is obviously wrong.

Damaged Eagle wrote:

boards of FL wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

boards of FL wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Throughout history in all tribes men have worshiped something outside themselves.

Not all.  Just the ignorant ones that had only a faint understanding of the natural world.  

The more we know about the natural world, the less gaps there are to fill supernatural explanation.  1000's of years ago, gaps were everywhere because we knew so little.

Today, we know alot. And, today, when a new supernatural explanation emerges that seeks to explain a gap, we correctly label that as a cult.

Today's mainstream religions are just cults that have been grandfathered in to modern society with a special title:  religion.

Quantum Physics if it shows us anything it shows us there are forces outside of observable nature related to the properties of matter and energy....your 5 senses are still quite limited . Not that that will stop you from being cocksure in your dogma.

Quantum physics shows us something.  Yes.  And our five senses are limited.  I agree.  

Neither of these things support the supernatural.  

The only thing that I am "cocksure" of is that the more we learn, the more questions we have.  There is much that we do not know.  It is better to concede that there is a lot that we don't know so that we can begin an honest attempt to learn.  This is the antithesis of religion - which tells you to stop asking questions, stop learning, stop thinking, and just have faith in an explanation that is obviously wrong.

So you're saying that those who follow religious dogma and 'global warming' supporters have a lot in common.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Tdu4uKSZ3M

boards of FL wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:

boards of FL wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

boards of FL wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Throughout history in all tribes men have worshiped something outside themselves.

Not all.  Just the ignorant ones that had only a faint understanding of the natural world.  

The more we know about the natural world, the less gaps there are to fill supernatural explanation.  1000's of years ago, gaps were everywhere because we knew so little.

Today, we know alot. And, today, when a new supernatural explanation emerges that seeks to explain a gap, we correctly label that as a cult.

Today's mainstream religions are just cults that have been grandfathered in to modern society with a special title:  religion.

Quantum Physics if it shows us anything it shows us there are forces outside of observable nature related to the properties of matter and energy....your 5 senses are still quite limited . Not that that will stop you from being cocksure in your dogma.

Quantum physics shows us something.  Yes.  And our five senses are limited.  I agree.  

Neither of these things support the supernatural.  

The only thing that I am "cocksure" of is that the more we learn, the more questions we have.  There is much that we do not know.  It is better to concede that there is a lot that we don't know so that we can begin an honest attempt to learn.  This is the antithesis of religion - which tells you to stop asking questions, stop learning, stop thinking, and just have faith in an explanation that is obviously wrong.

So you're saying that those who follow religious dogma and 'global warming' supporters have a lot in common.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Tdu4uKSZ3M

http://www.learningrx.com/reading-help-for-adults-faq.htm

SheWrites wrote:

Wordslinger wrote:

1.First, I push my anti-theist comments because I truly believe religions are evil and destructive to cultural harmony.

2. Remarks about me fearing God, etc. or searching for some ethereal omnipotent entity are silly.  

3. God doesn't exist so why in hell would I fear her or him or them, or it?

Here are a number of good reasons why religions are harmful:

http://www.alternet.org/belief/12-worst-ideas-religion-has-unleashed-world?akid=12713.260394._8kPWu&rd=1&src=newsletter1030727&t=6

Have a good day

Thanks, Wordslinger, you have a good day too.  I hope you won't mind that I addressed your remarks by the numbers I placed before them.

1.  If you believe in evil then you must believe in good.  Where does good come from?  Within?  Why are some good and some evil?  Do we all have a mix of both and by choice the evil or good rises from us?  How is "religion" which is a belief, evil?  It does not have hands or feet, mouth or brain.  

Of course there's good and evil, they're exact opposites. Agnostics and Atheists and religious folk all share the same innate sense of conscience and knowing what's right and what's wrong. The human awareness of what's good or harmful, etc., has nothing whatever to do with any God(s) Knowing what's right and wrong are basic requirements for any society. You ask "how is religion, which is a belief, evil?" One person's belief is that all maturing girls should have their clitoris removed. Another person, of another belief thinks that practice is destructive, harmful and unfair. Right away we have a theological conflict. And all theological conflict is, without a doubt evil because it prevents us from living in harmony.

2.  Fearing God is not a "oh I'm so afraid" but a reverence for God.  It's a personal choice and personal belief.  No one is forcing you to choose or believe.

That's your definition, but not true for a hardcore Southern Baptist! Fundamentalist Christians consistently push the idea that God will punish anyone who doesn't obey all the rules. They do, in fact, push fearing God.
You've seen it in the responses to my anti-religious threads -- War Hero continually asserts I'm going to Hell because I don't believe. Since I'm well over the age of 21 you're right, nobody is forcing me to believe. But is that true for elementary students in Santa Rosa county? You don't think they're being pressured to believe in Jesus?

How about all the folks who want creationism to replace existing science courses in our public schools?

3.  It's so easy to take the side of saying God does not exist and then expect those who do believe in the existence of God to prove it while you sit back and wait for it.   Or not wait for it.  Not sure if God was "proven" to you if you would indeed "accept" the proof.  I don't feel God can be proved.  To me, personally, He simply Is.

In fact, I was raised as a Mormon and it was anything but easy for me to come out as an anti-theist. Yes, if I'm debating the existence of God, I do indeed demand proof from my opponent. Wouldn't you? And you're wrong about me not accepting real proof of God's existence if it was put before me. I appreciate and respect truth -- which is why I choose science and rationality rather than superstition.



Now, again, no one is pushing you to God.  How could they if you do not believe.  

When you look at the world from what we see as the beginning of civilization until today, man seeks something to worship.  What is in mankind that causes the need?

Maybe it's because our lives can become terribly difficult at times and we need to believe in an all-powerful God who can and will help us through the rough parts. Same as we believe in a Four Leaf Clover, or any other lucky charm.

Can secular humanism give the same feel good affect as belief in God?  Many seem to think so.

Back to religion, it is the boiling point for most of the world's conflict and strife, along with greed, and power.  Religion and power were used atrociously by the Catholic Church.  Strife and battle over "holy ground" continues to cause a ripple eeffect around the world.  Religion is man made.

Faith is personal.   What I believe or what you believe is basically neither your's or my business.  

Wordslinger wrote:

SheWrites wrote:

Wordslinger wrote:

1.First, I push my anti-theist comments because I truly believe religions are evil and destructive to cultural harmony.

2. Remarks about me fearing God, etc. or searching for some ethereal omnipotent entity are silly.  

3. God doesn't exist so why in hell would I fear her or him or them, or it?

Here are a number of good reasons why religions are harmful:

http://www.alternet.org/belief/12-worst-ideas-religion-has-unleashed-world?akid=12713.260394._8kPWu&rd=1&src=newsletter1030727&t=6

Have a good day

Thanks, Wordslinger, you have a good day too.  I hope you won't mind that I addressed your remarks by the numbers I placed before them.

1.  If you believe in evil then you must believe in good.  Where does good come from?  Within?  Why are some good and some evil?  Do we all have a mix of both and by choice the evil or good rises from us?  How is "religion" which is a belief, evil?  It does not have hands or feet, mouth or brain.  

Of course there's good and evil, they're exact opposites.  Agnostics and Atheists and religious folk all share the same innate sense of conscience and knowing what's right and what's wrong.  The human awareness of what's good or harmful, etc., has nothing whatever to do with any God(s)  Knowing what's right and wrong are basic requirements for any society.  You ask "how is religion, which is a belief, evil?"  One person's belief is that all maturing girls should have their clitoris removed.  Another person, of another belief thinks that practice is destructive, harmful and unfair.  Right away we have a theological conflict.  And all theological conflict is, without a doubt evil because it prevents us from living in harmony.

2.  Fearing God is not a "oh I'm so afraid" but a reverence for God.  It's a personal choice and personal belief.  No one is forcing you to choose or believe.  

That's your definition, but not true for a hardcore Southern Baptist!  Fundamentalist Christians consistently push the idea that God will punish anyone who doesn't obey all the rules.  They do, in fact, push fearing God.
You've seen it in the responses to my anti-religious threads -- War Hero continually asserts I'm going to Hell because I don't believe.  Since I'm well over the age of 21 you're right, nobody is forcing me to believe.  But is that true for elementary students in Santa Rosa county?  You don't think they're being pressured to believe in Jesus?

How about all the folks who want creationism to replace existing science courses in our public schools?

3.  It's so easy to take the side of saying God does not exist and then expect those who do believe in the existence of God to prove it while you sit back and wait for it.   Or not wait for it.  Not sure if God was "proven" to you if you would indeed "accept" the proof.  I don't feel God can be proved.  To me, personally, He simply Is.

In fact, I was raised as a Mormon and it was anything but easy for me to come out as an anti-theist.  Yes, if I'm debating the existence of God, I do indeed demand proof from my opponent.  Wouldn't you?  And you're wrong about me not accepting real proof of God's existence if it was put before me.  I appreciate and respect truth -- which is why I choose science and rationality rather than superstition.



Now, again, no one is pushing you to God.  How could they if you do not believe.  

When you look at the world from what we see as the beginning of civilization until today, man seeks something to worship.  What is in mankind that causes the need?

Maybe it's because our lives can become terribly difficult at times and we need to believe in an all-powerful God who can and will help us through the rough parts.  Same as we believe in a Four Leaf Clover, or any other lucky charm.

Can secular humanism give the same feel good affect as belief in God?  Many seem to think so.

Back to religion, it is the boiling point for most of the world's conflict and strife, along with greed, and power.  Religion and power were used atrociously by the Catholic Church.  Strife and battle over "holy ground" continues to cause a ripple eeffect around the world.  Religion is man made.

Faith is personal.   What I believe or what you believe is basically neither your's or my business.  

You have every right to believe what you want, but you do not have any right to force me to abide by your beliefs.  Fair?

SheWrites wrote:
When you look at the world from what we see as the beginning of civilization until today, man seeks something to worship.  What is in mankind that causes the need?

PkrBum wrote:Almost every form of collectivism is by nature tribalism. Maybe you should start examining your beliefs.

Sal wrote:

PkrBum wrote:Almost every form of collectivism is by nature tribalism. Maybe you should start examining your beliefs.

Glibertarianism has all the attributes of a religion - a complete disconnect with the real world, faith in meaningless axioms that are repeated mindlessly, and appeal to the intellectually lazy and immature.

PkrBum wrote:

Sal wrote:

PkrBum wrote:Almost every form of collectivism is by nature tribalism. Maybe you should start examining your beliefs.

Glibertarianism has all the attributes of a religion - a complete disconnect with the real world, faith in meaningless axioms that are repeated mindlessly, and appeal to the intellectually lazy and immature.

Ya... cause self-reliance, individual liberty, and limited govt... harms or threatens exactly who?

The intellectually lazy are the useful idiots turning over total control to a bloated incompetent central bureaucracy.

Why? What outcome of any comparable scale has turned out well?

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/europe-u-s-lot-riding-greek-elections/

PkrBum wrote:

Sal wrote:

PkrBum wrote:Almost every form of collectivism is by nature tribalism. Maybe you should start examining your beliefs.

Glibertarianism has all the attributes of a religion - a complete disconnect with the real world, faith in meaningless axioms that are repeated mindlessly, and appeal to the intellectually lazy and immature.

Ya... cause self-reliance, individual liberty, and limited govt... harms or threatens exactly who?
The intellectually lazy are the useful idiots turning over total control to a bloated incompetent central bureaucracy.

Why? What outcome of any comparable scale has turned out well?

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/europe-u-s-lot-riding-greek-elections/

Vikingwoman wrote:

PkrBum wrote:

Sal wrote:

PkrBum wrote:Almost every form of collectivism is by nature tribalism. Maybe you should start examining your beliefs.

Glibertarianism has all the attributes of a religion - a complete disconnect with the real world, faith in meaningless axioms that are repeated mindlessly, and appeal to the intellectually lazy and immature.

Ya... cause self-reliance, individual liberty, and limited govt... harms or threatens exactly who?
The intellectually lazy are the useful idiots turning over total control to a bloated incompetent central bureaucracy.

Why? What outcome of any comparable scale has turned out well?

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/europe-u-s-lot-riding-greek-elections/

You talk in all these broad general terms,Pkr. What individual liberties are infringed upon and what should govt. be limited to?

SheWrites wrote:

Wordslinger wrote:

1.First, I push my anti-theist comments because I truly believe religions are evil and destructive to cultural harmony.

2. Remarks about me fearing God, etc. or searching for some ethereal omnipotent entity are silly.  

3. God doesn't exist so why in hell would I fear her or him or them, or it?

Here are a number of good reasons why religions are harmful:

http://www.alternet.org/belief/12-worst-ideas-religion-has-unleashed-world?akid=12713.260394._8kPWu&rd=1&src=newsletter1030727&t=6

Have a good day

Thanks, Wordslinger, you have a good day too.  I hope you won't mind that I addressed your remarks by the numbers I placed before them.

1.  If you believe in evil then you must believe in good.  Where does good come from?  Within?  Why are some good and some evil?  Do we all have a mix of both and by choice the evil or good rises from us?  How is "religion" which is a belief, evil?  It does not have hands or feet, mouth or brain.  

2.  Fearing God is not a "oh I'm so afraid" but a reverence for God.  It's a personal choice and personal belief.  No one is forcing you to choose or believe.

3.  It's so easy to take the side of saying God does not exist and then expect those who do believe in the existence of God to prove it while you sit back and wait for it.   Or not wait for it.  Not sure if God was "proven" to you if you would indeed "accept" the proof.  I don't feel God can be proved.  To me, personally, He simply Is.



Now, again, no one is pushing you to God.  How could they if you do not believe.  

When you look at the world from what we see as the beginning of civilization until today, man seeks something to worship.  What is in mankind that causes the need?

Can secular humanism give the same feel good affect as belief in God?  Many seem to think so.

Back to religion, it is the boiling point for most of the world's conflict and strife, along with greed, and power.  Religion and power were used atrociously by the Catholic Church.  Strife and battle over "holy ground" continues to cause a ripple eeffect around the world.  Religion is man made.

Faith is personal.   What I believe or what you believe is basically neither your's or my business.  

2seaoat wrote:I do indeed demand proof

I have never met a man or woman who can provide the proof you demand either for the existence of God, or for the non existence of God.

Just as many argued the earth was flat, and others argued it was a globe......the theory and the proof of the same took many many years to actually prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the earth was a globe.