Secular parenting

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0115-zuckerman-secular-parenting-20150115-story.html

Interesting findings

nadalfan wrote:http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0115-zuckerman-secular-parenting-20150115-story.html

Interesting findings

Very interesting, nadalfan. Thanks for sharing this.

My parents raised me in a home where we did not attend church but they set standards that were based on Christian principle.  The "golden rule" is only a paraphrase of many guiding verses that can be found in other religions besides Christianity.  

I would love to know what "secular" thoughts they are using that are so different from what a Christ follower would live by.  Not talking about congregational traditions but  those guiding principles.  What are they?  How do they differ from basic truths taught by Jesus?

SheWrites wrote:My parents raised me in a home where we did not attend church but they set standards that were based on Christian principle.  The "golden rule" is only a paraphrase of many guiding verses that can be found in other religions besides Christianity.  

I would love to know what "secular" thoughts they are using that are so different from what a Christ follower would live by.  Not talking about congregational traditions but  those guiding principles.  What are they?  How do they differ from basic truths taught by Jesus?

My parents were regular churchgoers. My Dad had been brought up in the Methodist Church but not long after he brought the family to Pensacola he switched to the Episcopal Church because many of the friends Mom and Dad made were attending that church.
What I liked about the Episcopal Church is there was never any of the "you're going to hell if you don't live your life exactly as we say" hogwash.

I've always believed the Golden Rule is the most profound moral and ethical principle ever conceived by human beings. If it was actually put into widespread practice that would go a long way towards improving human existence on this planet. But I don't see it ever happening.

SheWrites wrote:My parents raised me in a home where we did not attend church but they set standards that were based on Christian principle.  The "golden rule" is only a paraphrase of many guiding verses that can be found in other religions besides Christianity.  

I would love to know what "secular" thoughts they are using that are so different from what a Christ follower would live by.  Not talking about congregational traditions but  those guiding principles.  What are they?  How do they differ from basic truths taught by Jesus?

What I found interesting is that while they may be taught the same guiding principles, those that are secular appear to follow them to a greater degree than those that report a religious upbringing.

nadalfan wrote:

SheWrites wrote:My parents raised me in a home where we did not attend church but they set standards that were based on Christian principle.  The "golden rule" is only a paraphrase of many guiding verses that can be found in other religions besides Christianity.  

I would love to know what "secular" thoughts they are using that are so different from what a Christ follower would live by.  Not talking about congregational traditions but  those guiding principles.  What are they?  How do they differ from basic truths taught by Jesus?

What I found interesting is that while they may be taught the same guiding principles, those that are secular appear to follow them to a greater degree than those that report a religious upbringing.

When I did begin to attend church it was a "do it my way or you go to hell" ideology. Overbearing "preacher" who tortured the Bible. I "rebelled" but it was really finding the better way to live according to what Jesus taught. He had no clue about what Jesus taught. Just control.

Those who followed him were narrow minded haters.

I grew up in a Catholic home where fear,terror,guilt and abuse were the norm all based on religion. I chose to raise my children w/o religion so they would have a fighting chance of being happy and well adjusted people.

Vikingwoman wrote:I grew up in a Catholic home where fear,terror,guilt and abuse were the norm all based on religion. I chose to raise my children w/o religion so they would have a fighting chance of being happy and well adjusted people.

And I grew up in a "normal" Catholic home.  It was not based on the things you listed. We were raised in a christian enviroment centered around love of family.

Vikingwoman wrote:I grew up in a Catholic home where fear,terror,guilt and abuse were the norm all based on religion. I chose to raise my children w/o religion so they would have a fighting chance of being happy and well adjusted people.

If the way you are on this forum is any indication that's the last thing that will happen.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0kSBiu1IGk

Dreams on a good day...just kidding ...

Joanimaroni wrote:

Vikingwoman wrote:I grew up in a Catholic home where fear,terror,guilt and abuse were the norm all based on religion. I chose to raise my children w/o religion so they would have a fighting chance of being happy and well adjusted people.

And I grew up in a "normal" Catholic home.  It was not based on the things you listed. We were raised in a christian enviroment centered around love of family.

If you call being told you were going to hell regularly,babies were going to pergatory, you will be blinded for mastubating,confessing every bad thought and being made to feel guilty for normal human desires and being slapped and your hair pulled by sisters a loving environment no wonder you're so dysfunctional.

Vikingwoman wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:

Vikingwoman wrote:I grew up in a Catholic home where fear,terror,guilt and abuse were the norm all based on religion. I chose to raise my children w/o religion so they would have a fighting chance of being happy and well adjusted people.

And I grew up in a "normal" Catholic home.  It was not based on the things you listed. We were raised in a christian enviroment centered around love of family.

If you call being told you were going to hell regularly,babies were going to pergatory, you will be blinded for mastubating,confessing every bad thought and being made to feel guilty for normal human desires and being slapped and your hair pulled by sisters a loving environment no wonder you're so dysfunctional.

Wow I understand some of your sharp edges now Dreams....I am sorry you had to grow up like that.....Glad I wasn't Catholic, I had a lot of bad thoughts. I would have never gotten out of the confessional.

Hey if you weren't feeling guilty about something you were worrying about frying in hell. Poor little innocent babies who were born and died w/o being baptised were forever to languish in purgatory. Physical abuse was very common as well as verbal by the diocese and accepted by the parents. You were crucified if you had sex outside of marriage and worst of all you had to stay married to whatever evil bastard you married no matter how bad he treated you or your children. A very sad and damaging religion.

Vikingwoman wrote:Hey if you weren't feeling guilty about something you were worrying about frying in hell. Poor little innocent babies who were born and died w/o being baptised were forever to languish in purgatory. Physical abuse was very common as well as verbal by the diocese and accepted by the parents. You were crucified if you had sex outside of marriage and worst of all you had to stay married to whatever evil bastard you married no matter how bad he treated you or your children. A very sad and damaging religion.

Your mind is closed.....

While the Catholic Church has a defined doctrine on original sin, it has none on the eternal fate of unbaptized infants, leaving theologians free to propose different theories, which Catholics are free to accept or reject. Limbo is one such theory.

What has been revealed to us is that the ordinary way of salvation is by the sacrament of baptism. None of the above considerations should be taken as qualifying the necessity of baptism or justifying delay in administering the sacrament. Rather, as we want to reaffirm in conclusion, they provide strong grounds for hope that God will save infants when we have not been able to do for them what we would have wished to do, namely, to baptize them into the faith and life of the Church.

Pope Benedict XVI authorized publication of this document, indicating that he considers it consistent with the Church's teaching, though it is not an official expression of that teaching.^{[size=12][33]} Media reports that by the document "the Pope closed Limbo"^[34] are thus without foundation.[/size]


I have never seen anyone crucified. Marriage is not permanent in situations that you pointed out.

Corporal punishment was used in Catholic Schools as well as all county schools.  That stopped in the 60's. I laugh and joke about school punishment back in the day.....it had no profound effect on me. The worst punishment I endured was having to pick up pecans.....  rather than a swat on the butt with a ruler. I would choose the ruler.

I think we all, if we had bad experiences with whatever "church" we attended, have to look beyond that incident and realize that was a micro view and not the basis of Christianity as a whole. I know I had to do that. The "saving grace" is that if we look to the life and teaching of Jesus alone then all the other is just traditions. I won't blame every fundamental church for the things I experienced and rejected.

In parenting, I think we are ultimately responsible for laying a foundation in our kids. Many use churches as baby sitters and think the pastor, youth pastor, children's minister is the end all to their child's spiritual learning. It begins at home as they see examples of family interaction that show love, caring, responsibility, honesty, etc.

A person's spiritual path is their own. We can't force feed anything and think it will "stick" with them. But the basics being a kind human can be demonstrated.

So, secular parenting works? Sure it would. Spiritual growth of an individual comes, again, on a personal path.

I think it's pretty well known the atrocities of the Catholic Church and it's teachings. Joani can try and minimize them all she wants but there are too many people who have experienced the abuses. The recent movie "Philomena" depicts what happened to teenage girls who got pregnant in the church. Their children were taken from them and adopted out at the age of three as it was a mortal sin. The facts are they terrorize little children and people w/ their bizarre and made up fantasies. Praying to this statute and that statute of ordinary people they made out to be saints.
Personally, I don't need some prophet of the times elevated to a God to tell me to be kind to others. I can figure that out all by myself. It's called a conscience and most people have them with or without religion.

Vikingwoman wrote:I think it's pretty well known the atrocities of the Catholic Church and it's teachings. Joani can try and minimize them all she wants but there are too many people who have experienced the abuses. The recent movie "Philomena" depicts what happened to teenage girls who got pregnant in the church. Their children were taken from them and adopted out at the age of three as it was a mortal sin. The facts are they terrorize little children and people w/ their bizarre and made up fantasies. Praying to this statute and that statute of ordinary people they made out to be saints.
Personally, I don't need some prophet of the times elevated to a God to tell me to be kind to others. I can figure that out all by myself. It's called a conscience and most people have them with or without religion.

Philomena was a movie about a young girl in Ireland sent to a convent for unwed teens by her father. What you don't understand....in the early 40' thru 60's their were many homes for unwed teens....they were not all associated with the Catholic Church. 

Statues provide an image, nothing more. 

Your bitterness and hatered is duly noted. You are not able to see things in perspective. Continue with what ever justifies your hate....

What you don't understand is the other unwed homes did not take their children from them and adopt them out to Americans. Furthermore, expressing my opinion on Catholicism from my experiences doesn't make me bitter and hateful. Just truthful. Something you have serious problems with.

Vikingwoman wrote:What you don't understand is the other unwed homes did not take their children from them and adopt them out to Americans. Furthermore, expressing my opinion on Catholicism from my experiences doesn't make me bitter and hateful. Just truthful. Something you have serious problems with.

Oh yes they did!!!!      They were homes and adoption agencies.

You need to google about homes for unwed mothers. Methodist and other protestant homes absolutely adopted babies out. Parents sent their daughter's to homes to have their baby and the parents signed adoption papers. Many area homes were in New Orleans.

Your experiences are bitter and hate filled.....you routinely bring it up.  Take your blinders off. It's not all Catholic.

http://www.protestanthomeforbabies.com/MaternityHomes.htm

True, Joani. Those records were sealed, too. I have a family member who tried her best to find the baby her parents made her give up. It was in a "secular" home for unwed mothers. When she approached them after the bans were lifted on finding birth parents they said the records had been lost.

Very sad.

It was a way of life regardless of denomination.

SheWrites wrote:True, Joani.  Those records were sealed, too.  I have a family member who tried her best to find the baby her parents made her give up.  It was in a "secular" home for unwed mothers.  When she approached them after the bans were lifted on finding birth parents they said the records had been lost.  

Very sad.  

It was a way of life regardless of denomination.  

It was also a social stigma and economical hardship.

Online you can find blog's written where mothers and children are looking for their biological family.....after having been adopted out of homes for unwed motgers.

The Catholic Church sold those babies to rich Americans. That's what the movie was about. Trying to justify it was economic hardship and social stigma is about as ignorant as justifying helpless babies going to purgatory. It's ignorance and voodoo and myths and superstition.

Joanimaroni wrote:

SheWrites wrote:True, Joani.  Those records were sealed, too.  I have a family member who tried her best to find the baby her parents made her give up.  It was in a "secular" home for unwed mothers.  When she approached them after the bans were lifted on finding birth parents they said the records had been lost.  

Very sad.  

It was a way of life regardless of denomination.  

It was also a social stigma and economical hardship.

Online you can find blog's written where mothers and children are looking for their biological family.....after having been adopted out of homes for unwed mothers.

It was definitely a time when "such things" were brushed under the rug.  I'm happy that my family member made peace with the situation and her parents.  Otherwise the hate would have eaten her alive.  Unfortunate things absolutely do happen to good people.  We still have to forgive and march forward. To hold the anger and continue to blame is not healthy.  Next time I visit her I will suggest the blog route for her in the, for now, dead end search for the child.

SheWrites wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:

SheWrites wrote:True, Joani.  Those records were sealed, too.  I have a family member who tried her best to find the baby her parents made her give up.  It was in a "secular" home for unwed mothers.  When she approached them after the bans were lifted on finding birth parents they said the records had been lost.  

Very sad.  

It was a way of life regardless of denomination.  

It was also a social stigma and economical hardship.

Online you can find blog's written where mothers and children are looking for their biological family.....after having been adopted out of homes for unwed mothers.

It was definitely a time when "such things" were brushed under the rug.  I'm happy that my family member made peace with the situation and her parents.  Otherwise the hate would have eaten her alive.  Unfortunate things absolutely do happen to good people.  We still have to forgive and march forward. To hold the anger and continue to blame is not healthy.  Next time I visit her I will suggest the blog route for her in the, for now, dead end search for the child.

It would be wonderful if she could make contact with her child.