Can you have democracy without religion?

http://www.wnd.com/2014/12/if-you-take-away-religion-you-cant-hire-enough-police/

yes

Go back to the past and the issue was that you COULD NOT HAVE democracy BECAUSE OF christian religion.
Fast forward to the present and muslims don't have democracy BECAUSE OF their religion.

http://www.pfaw.org/media-center/publications/12-rules-mixing-religion-and-politics

TEOTWAWKI wrote:“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
- John Adams

Well first of all, every one of the Founding Fathers wrote so many things on the topic of religion and government that mining any one quote from any of them is like trying to get a handle on the Bible by singling out one verse in one book.

But I wasn't talking about that past. I was talking about the past that lasted for a thousand years which had the Catholic Church absolutely in control of government in Europe. All ruled by a combination of dictatorial monarchies and the Vatican to squelch any attempt at democracy or anything else which was not in keeping with their interpretation of the Bible which was the rule of law.

Is there an atheist state we could draw on for comparison? Does it have democracy?

Iceland......arguably the oldest democracy since 900 ad.........Iceland is a very secular country: as with other Nordic nations, religious attendance is relatively low.

2seaoat wrote:Iceland......arguably the oldest democracy since 900 ad.........Iceland is a very secular country: as with other Nordic nations, religious attendance is relatively low.

Doesn't fit. They have freedom of religion in their Constitution.

Doesn't fit. They have freedom of religion in their Constitution.

Why would a democracy which has freedom of religion not fit.......they have the choice to be mostly secular, which Scandinavian nations have always been.

Go back to T's original question.

I did. I answered yes. I am correct.

Eliminate religion and morals will improve.

SheWrites wrote:Is there an atheist state we could draw on for comparison?  Does it have democracy?  

The United States of America.

Thank you. To say religion is a precursor to democracy is like saying religion is a precursor to winning an Oscar. It is a non sequitur. Democracy has thrived in Secular Scandinavian nations for over a thousand years. Religious affiliations are mostly in name only in these tolerant secular societies, and participation in organized religion throughout history has led to the KKK and the Taliban......it is the antithesis of democracy where some declare divine inspiration as a means of destroying democratic institutions, at the exclusion of minorities.

2seaoat wrote:Thank you.   To say religion is a precursor to democracy is like saying religion is a precursor to winning an Oscar.   It is a non sequitur.  Democracy has thrived in Secular Scandinavian nations for over a thousand years.  Religious affiliations are mostly in name only in these tolerant secular societies, and participation in organized religion throughout history has led to the KKK and the Taliban......it is the antithesis of democracy where some declare divine inspiration as a means of destroying democratic institutions, at the exclusion of minorities.

Well stated.

Lucky for us we don't live in a democracy....cause it really sucks.

Favorite rendition of that song, ever. That show was televised just a few weeks before my Dad passed away. He loved it. It will always be special to me.

Democracy, Republic, Kingdom of Heaven...I choose the latter.

Peace to all. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

SheWrites wrote:Favorite rendition of that song, ever.  That show was televised just a few weeks before my Dad passed away.  He loved it.  It will always be special to me.

Democracy, Republic, Kingdom of Heaven...I choose the latter.  

Peace to all.  Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

May God bless and keep you and yours in the coming year. I know it's sad and delusional and uncool  to believe now days but i been blessed to much to turn my back on Him now.  I guess Christians are just too cowardly to deal with life without Jesus. We don't have the brains of the average atheist nor see all the evil that "God" allows and blame him for it like we should.  I guess we are just mental basket cases afraid of the dark.  BUT I know in whom I have believed and trust that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.   Merry Christmas.

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

SheWrites wrote:Favorite rendition of that song, ever.  That show was televised just a few weeks before my Dad passed away.  He loved it.  It will always be special to me.

Democracy, Republic, Kingdom of Heaven...I choose the latter.  

Peace to all.  Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

May God bless and keep you and yours in the coming year. I know it's sad and delusional and uncool  to believe now days but i been blessed to much to turn my back on Him now.  I guess Christians are just too cowardly to deal with life without Jesus. We don't have the brains of the average atheist nor see all the evil that "God" allows and blame him for it like we should.  I guess we are just mental basket cases afraid of the dark.  BUT I know in whom I have believed and trust that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.   Merry Christmas.

Well, let's take gay people as an example. Doesn't your religion tell you that gay people are bad? Meanwhile, science shows us that homosexuality is a fairly natural phenomenon, occurring broadly across many species and at a fairly consistent rate.

With that said, doesn't the religious view on this one example promote ignorance about the world around you while also serving as a means for oppressing others? If that isn't morally bankrupt, what is?

In contrast, doesn't the scientific view inform us about our environment and provide us with a better framework for morals and policy?

boards of FL wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

SheWrites wrote:Favorite rendition of that song, ever.  That show was televised just a few weeks before my Dad passed away.  He loved it.  It will always be special to me.

Democracy, Republic, Kingdom of Heaven...I choose the latter.  

Peace to all.  Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

May God bless and keep you and yours in the coming year. I know it's sad and delusional and uncool  to believe now days but i been blessed to much to turn my back on Him now.  I guess Christians are just too cowardly to deal with life without Jesus. We don't have the brains of the average atheist nor see all the evil that "God" allows and blame him for it like we should.  I guess we are just mental basket cases afraid of the dark.  BUT I know in whom I have believed and trust that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.   Merry Christmas.

Well, let's take gay people as an example.  Doesn't your religion tell you that gay people are bad?  Meanwhile, science shows us that homosexuality is a fairly natural phenomenon, occurring broadly across many species and at a fairly consistent rate.  

With that said, doesn't the religious view on this one example promote ignorance about the world around you while also serving as a means for oppressing others?  If that isn't morally bankrupt, what is?  

In contrast, doesn't the scientific view inform us about our environment and provide us with a better framework for morals and policy?

The only person I can with some chance of success control is myself. The only reason science works is because the laws of the universe are fairly dependable and you can for the most part reproduce results in an experiment. Yea some animals even go as far in their life cycle as to change gender when the time or need occurs.  That reliable law of nature says homosexuality is nonproductive and often destructive of those that practice it.  The Bible says the same thing in words.  Those that practice it receive suffering in their own bodies like those that practice drunkeness or take drugs or gluttons . I can tell you that this new car will blow up at 150 mph but if you push it to 155 and it doesn't blow up then you might think I was lying or trying to keep you from really enjoying your new car to the max.  Be sure though that one day it will blow up and probably wreck and kill you.  Then am I to blame ?

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

boards of FL wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

SheWrites wrote:Favorite rendition of that song, ever.  That show was televised just a few weeks before my Dad passed away.  He loved it.  It will always be special to me.

Democracy, Republic, Kingdom of Heaven...I choose the latter.  

Peace to all.  Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

May God bless and keep you and yours in the coming year. I know it's sad and delusional and uncool  to believe now days but i been blessed to much to turn my back on Him now.  I guess Christians are just too cowardly to deal with life without Jesus. We don't have the brains of the average atheist nor see all the evil that "God" allows and blame him for it like we should.  I guess we are just mental basket cases afraid of the dark.  BUT I know in whom I have believed and trust that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.   Merry Christmas.

Well, let's take gay people as an example.  Doesn't your religion tell you that gay people are bad?  Meanwhile, science shows us that homosexuality is a fairly natural phenomenon, occurring broadly across many species and at a fairly consistent rate.  

With that said, doesn't the religious view on this one example promote ignorance about the world around you while also serving as a means for oppressing others?  If that isn't morally bankrupt, what is?  

In contrast, doesn't the scientific view inform us about our environment and provide us with a better framework for morals and policy?

The only person I can with some chance of success control is myself. The only reason science works is because the laws of the universe are fairly dependable and you can for the most part reproduce results in an experiment. Yea some animals even go as far in their life cycle as to change gender when the time or need occurs.  That reliable law of nature says homosexuality is nonproductive and often destructive of those that practice it.  The Bible says the same thing in words.  Those that practice it receive suffering in their own bodies like those that practice drunkeness or take drugs or gluttons . I can tell you that this new car will blow up at 150 mph but if you push it to 155 and it doesn't blow up then you might think I was lying or trying to keep you from really enjoying your new car to the max.  Be sure though that one day it will blow up and probably wreck and kill you.  Then am I to blame ?

Your religion frames homosexuality as a moral issue, correct? But given what science shows us, we know that homosexuality is not a moral issue. You understand this, right? Homosexuality is a phenomenon that occurs in nature across many species.

If goats, pigs, (insert other animals) exhibit homosexual behavior, would you say that that is an example of an animal acting immorally?

boards of FL wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

boards of FL wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

SheWrites wrote:Favorite rendition of that song, ever.  That show was televised just a few weeks before my Dad passed away.  He loved it.  It will always be special to me.

Democracy, Republic, Kingdom of Heaven...I choose the latter.  

Peace to all.  Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

May God bless and keep you and yours in the coming year. I know it's sad and delusional and uncool  to believe now days but i been blessed to much to turn my back on Him now.  I guess Christians are just too cowardly to deal with life without Jesus. We don't have the brains of the average atheist nor see all the evil that "God" allows and blame him for it like we should.  I guess we are just mental basket cases afraid of the dark.  BUT I know in whom I have believed and trust that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.   Merry Christmas.

Well, let's take gay people as an example.  Doesn't your religion tell you that gay people are bad?  Meanwhile, science shows us that homosexuality is a fairly natural phenomenon, occurring broadly across many species and at a fairly consistent rate.  

With that said, doesn't the religious view on this one example promote ignorance about the world around you while also serving as a means for oppressing others?  If that isn't morally bankrupt, what is?  

In contrast, doesn't the scientific view inform us about our environment and provide us with a better framework for morals and policy?

The only person I can with some chance of success control is myself. The only reason science works is because the laws of the universe are fairly dependable and you can for the most part reproduce results in an experiment. Yea some animals even go as far in their life cycle as to change gender when the time or need occurs.  That reliable law of nature says homosexuality is nonproductive and often destructive of those that practice it.  The Bible says the same thing in words.  Those that practice it receive suffering in their own bodies like those that practice drunkeness or take drugs or gluttons . I can tell you that this new car will blow up at 150 mph but if you push it to 155 and it doesn't blow up then you might think I was lying or trying to keep you from really enjoying your new car to the max.  Be sure though that one day it will blow up and probably wreck and kill you.  Then am I to blame ?

Your religion frames homosexuality as a moral issue, correct?  But given what science shows us, we know that homosexuality is not a moral issue.  You understand this, right?  Homosexuality is a phenomenon that occurs in nature across many species.

If goats, pigs, (insert other animals) exhibit homosexual behavior, would you say that that is an example of an animal acting immorally?  

That's why homosexuals were referred to as dogs in that old world. If you want to roll in the mud crap in the street urinate on the carpet and smell each other's butts then who am I to stop you.  Just don't smell my butt I will hit you with a rolled up newspaper.

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

boards of FL wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

boards of FL wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

SheWrites wrote:Favorite rendition of that song, ever.  That show was televised just a few weeks before my Dad passed away.  He loved it.  It will always be special to me.

Democracy, Republic, Kingdom of Heaven...I choose the latter.  

Peace to all.  Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

May God bless and keep you and yours in the coming year. I know it's sad and delusional and uncool  to believe now days but i been blessed to much to turn my back on Him now.  I guess Christians are just too cowardly to deal with life without Jesus. We don't have the brains of the average atheist nor see all the evil that "God" allows and blame him for it like we should.  I guess we are just mental basket cases afraid of the dark.  BUT I know in whom I have believed and trust that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.   Merry Christmas.

Well, let's take gay people as an example.  Doesn't your religion tell you that gay people are bad?  Meanwhile, science shows us that homosexuality is a fairly natural phenomenon, occurring broadly across many species and at a fairly consistent rate.  

With that said, doesn't the religious view on this one example promote ignorance about the world around you while also serving as a means for oppressing others?  If that isn't morally bankrupt, what is?  

In contrast, doesn't the scientific view inform us about our environment and provide us with a better framework for morals and policy?

The only person I can with some chance of success control is myself. The only reason science works is because the laws of the universe are fairly dependable and you can for the most part reproduce results in an experiment. Yea some animals even go as far in their life cycle as to change gender when the time or need occurs.  That reliable law of nature says homosexuality is nonproductive and often destructive of those that practice it.  The Bible says the same thing in words.  Those that practice it receive suffering in their own bodies like those that practice drunkeness or take drugs or gluttons . I can tell you that this new car will blow up at 150 mph but if you push it to 155 and it doesn't blow up then you might think I was lying or trying to keep you from really enjoying your new car to the max.  Be sure though that one day it will blow up and probably wreck and kill you.  Then am I to blame ?

Your religion frames homosexuality as a moral issue, correct?  But given what science shows us, we know that homosexuality is not a moral issue.  You understand this, right?  Homosexuality is a phenomenon that occurs in nature across many species.

If goats, pigs, (insert other animals) exhibit homosexual behavior, would you say that that is an example of an animal acting immorally?  

That's why homosexuals were referred to as dogs in that old world. If you want to roll in the mud crap in the street urinate on the carpet and smell each other's butts then who am I to stop you.  Just don't smell my butt I will hit you with a rolled up newspaper.

See if you can stay on topic for a second.  

Isn't it true that your religion treats homosexual behavior as a moral issue and therefore tells you that homosexuals are bad people?  You acknowledge this right?

Doesn't science show us that homosexual behavior is in fact a natural behavior that is present in a vast array of species and that occurs at a fairly consistent rate?

Given what science shows us, can't we deem the religious view as factually ignorant?

If we can deem the religious view as factually ignorant, can we really say that the religious view provides a good foundation on which to build morals?

If the scientific view gives us a greater understanding of the world around us, doesn't it follow that it would be the better foundation on which to build morals?