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Pensacola Discussion Forum » General Discussion » Silence continues on the forum regarding Ferguson.

Silence continues on the forum regarding Ferguson.

+8
Markle
gatorfan
Hospital Bob
Vikingwoman
Sal
boards of FL
2seaoat
Joanimaroni
12 posters

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Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

Senator Jamilah Nasheed, a Democrat who has sponsored several “anti-gun” laws arrested in Ferguson. While intoxicated she was carrying a 9mm gun with extra ammo at a "peaceful" demonstration.

Other news being ignored......information regarding the forensic evidence backing Officer Wilson's staement.

2seaoat



Still waiting on the SA to do their job. The grand jury is entirely controlled by the SA office. We wait at his pleasure.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

Report: Autopsy Suggests Michael Brown Reached for Ferguson Officer's Gun
The official autopsy on Michael Brown, leaked to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, suggests that he was shot in the hand at close range and may have reached for the police officer’s gun, outside experts told the newspaper.

That would contradict what private experts reported after they conducted an autopsy for Brown’s family. Those experts said there were no signs of a struggle between Brown and Officer Darren Wilson, who shot him to death Aug. 9 in the suburb of Ferguson.

A supplemental examination in the official autopsy published by the Post-Dispatch found material “consistent with products that are discharged from the barrel of a firearm” in Brown’s right hand.

Dr. Judy Melinek, a forensic pathologist not involved in the autopsy, told the newspaper that the finding “supports the fact that this guy is reaching for the gun, if he has gunpowder particulate material in the wound.” Melinek also told the newspaper that the autopsy did not support witness accounts that the fatal shot, later, was fired while Brown was running away from the officer or had his hands up.

The Post-Dispatch also reported Wednesday, citing an unnamed source with knowledge of the matter, that Wilson has told investigators that Brown pressed the barrel of the gun against Wilson’s hip during a struggle inside the officer’s SUV.

boards of FL

boards of FL

There were multiple eye witnesses who all - in chorus - are saying the same thing.


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2seaoat



Those witnesses say that the officer reached from the squad and grabbed Michael, and that they struggled. I would like to see where one extrapolates a struggle to break free with reaching for a gun. The witnesses all said they heard a shot from within the squad. That shot is legit. When Michael runs after being shot and the officer exits his vehicle and continues shooting. Brown raises his hands and is shot some more with a fatal head shot happening after his hands were raised.

I am happy this is finally being resolved in the media and by pundits, but I prefer a trial where all the facts and witnesses can testify under oath. The SA with his history never will allow this to happen. Never. An independent prosecutor should have been appointed, but there is still hope.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

She said...... Brown was facing Wilson when Brown took a shot to the forehead, two shots to the chest and a shot to the upper right arm. The wound to the top of Brown’s head would indicate he was falling forward or in a lunging position toward the shooter; the shot was instantly fatal. A sixth shot that hit the forearm traveled from the back of the arm to the inner arm, which means Brown’s palms could not have been facing Wilson, as some witnesses have said, Melinek said. That trajectory shows Brown probably was not taking a standard surrender position with arms above the shoulders and palms out when he was hit, she said.”

St. Louis medical examiner Michael Graham, who also reviewed the autopsy results for the Post-Dispatch, said they were consistent with Wilson’s reported claim that he and Brown struggled inside a police SUV.


The examination “does support that there was a significant altercation at the car,” he said.

Early Wednesday, the newspaper published Wilson’s most detailed account yet, according to an unnamed source with knowledge of his statements to police.



The Post-Dispatch reported:

Wilson told investigators he thought the bullet had struck Brown in the hand, the source said. … Broken window glass was everywhere, and blood was on the door, the gun and Wilson’s hands. At the time, Wilson said, he wasn’t sure whose blood it was.

Sources told the newspaper that Brown’s blood was found on Wilson’s gun. The autopsy confirmed Brown’s blood was on Wilson’s car.

“Someone got an injury that tore off skin and left it on the car,” Graham said. “That fits with everything else that came out. There’s blood in the car, now skin on the car, that shows something happened right there.”

The paper said that the autopsy reported found no “stippling,” powder burns indicative of a shot fired at short range. But it quoted Graham saying that “Sometimes when it’s really close, such as within an inch or so, there is no stipple, just smoke.” It also said that tissue from the thumb wound showed foreign matter “consistent with products that are discharged from the barrel of a firearm.”




Eyewitness accounts vary. Johnson, 22, said Wilson grabbed Brown and tried to pull him into the vehicle. Then later, when Brown tried to run, Wilson allegedly chased him, shot him once before he turned around and then shot and killed him while his hands were raised. Others have said Wilson shot at Brown as he fled. Some said Brown stood still. Some said his hands were in the air; some said they were not.

The source who spoke to the newspaper said Wilson told investigators he did indeed get out and chase Brown before Brown rushed him.

The Post-Dispatch wrote:

Wilson said he had yelled for Brown to stop, then fired, the source said. Brown flinched as if he was hit, and Wilson said he had stopped shooting. Brown continued running toward him, and Wilson said he had fired several more shots. The source said that Wilson had recalled that Brown’s head was down when the last shot hit him there.



“I hope I’m wrong, but I have a feeling that prosecutors are getting ready to drop the hammer on us,” attorney Eric Guster wrote on the Root. “They want us to be ready for what every tear-gassed, unlawfully arrested, shot at, beaten, harassed, billy-clubbed protester doesn’t want to hear: Wilson probably won’t be charged in the killing of Michael Brown.”

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

boards of FL wrote:There were multiple eye witnesses who all - in chorus - are saying the same thing.  

You heard what you wanted to hear.....the statements were inconsistent. Not in chorus.

2seaoat



A hand shot where the officer is struggling with Michael and then transfers the blood on his hands to the gun does not make Michael grabbing the gun. After reading your clip it is even more consistent that Michael was murdered by an officer who had worked himself into a frenzy after pulling up and telling two black kids to get on the fricking sidewalk and did not like how slowly they were doing it.......from beginning to end this officer should have never been given a badge period. Why not call in the struggle after shooting Michael and get back up......because the officer was completely out of control and proceeded to fire at a retreating Michael. No justification can be made for the shooting of an unarmed man with his hands up.....there is not one contradiction among witnesses in this regard.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

2seaoat wrote:A hand shot where the officer is struggling with Michael and then transfers the blood on his hands to the gun does not make Michael grabbing the gun.  After reading your clip it is even more consistent that Michael was murdered by an officer who had worked himself into a frenzy after pulling up and telling two black kids to get on the fricking sidewalk and did not like how slowly they were doing it.......from beginning to end this officer should have never been given a badge period.   Why not call in the struggle after shooting Michael and get back up......because the officer was completely out of control and proceeded to fire at a retreating Michael.  No justification can be made for the shooting of an unarmed man with his hands up.....there is not one contradiction among witnesses in this regard.

Read it again....witnesses and evidence do not support Brown's hands were up.
Some witnesses said his hands were up some said they were not.
.....trajectory shows Brown probably was not taking a standard surrender position with arms above the shoulders and palms out when he was hit, she said.”

2seaoat



When they did not take the statement of the man walking with Michael for weeks after the shooting it was obvious that the cover up had begun. The charges should have been brought within 72 hours after taking those witness statements, but the statements were not taken, the report was not filed as they carefully constructed a story which gave the officer the best chance. This is not how any other jurisdiction would have handled a shooting between two citizens, yet with an officer the thin blue line holds strong.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

2seaoat wrote:When they did not take the statement of the man walking with Michael for weeks after the shooting it was obvious that the cover up had begun.  The charges should have been brought within 72 hours after taking those witness statements, but the statements were not taken, the report was not filed as they carefully constructed a story which gave the officer the best chance.  This is not how any other jurisdiction would have handled a shooting between two citizens, yet with an officer the thin blue line holds strong.

Witness statements were not consistent. Forensics do not support Brown's hands were up.

You stated from the beginning Brown was surrendering. You ignored the confrontation where Brown assaulted Wilson.

Sal

Sal

You expect him to remain upright with his hands raised as he's being shot multiple times??

Of course, he fell forward.

Of course, his arms came down.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

Sal wrote:You expect him to remain upright with his hands raised as he's being shot multiple times??

Of course, he fell forward.

Of course, his arms came down.


Same stance if he is charging the officer. You wouldn't expect his hands would be raised, as if surrendering, in that situation either.

2seaoat



Joanie takes the officer side to a fault. If once she showed objectivity in a shooting with a black kid, I would think a discussion would be worthwhile. I heard three eye witness accounts the day after the shooting which were consistent with him running and being shot at turning and putting his hands up. Then within three days another eyewitness which confirmed the original eyewitnesses. The key again is the person walking with Michael was not interviewed for over a week.....that is unheard of in a normal investigation. I have not heard ONE person take the air and make a statement inconsistent with what the witnesses have said. I have heard carefully planted second hand accounts of the same, but no witness has stood up and said I never saw him put his hands up, or that he was charging the officer. Pretty clear what is being done here.

Vikingwoman



Sounds like Brown did try to grab the weapon in the vehicle. His blood was found on the door panel, gun and on the officer's uniform.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

So I'm suppose to think differently if it is a black kid? Why?

2seaoat



Same stance if he is charging the officer.

So a person just got shot by an officer in the hand after being dragged into the squad, and after being shot starts running, and is being shot at some more, you think the natural thing to do is to turn and charge an officer with a gun in excess of fifty feet away. What fairy tale is somebody trying to sell here. Four witnesses who stepped forward and made public statements immediately saw the hands up.

2seaoat



So I'm suppose to think differently if it is a black kid? Why?


You would have to answer why, but whether a kid is being run over by a squad car, or an unarmed kid is stalked and killed the answer is always the "thugs".

Sal

Sal

Vikingwoman wrote:Sounds like Brown did try to grab the weapon in the vehicle. His blood was found on the door panel, gun and on the officer's uniform.

I don't see how you can jump to that conclusion.

There's no dispute that there was a struggle in the cop's vehicle.

Brown's companion claimed that the cop grabbed Brown, and that Brown struggled to escape, and that's when the cop pulled his gun.

The hand wound could just as easily be a defensive wound.

The leaking of this "official" autopsy and the characterizations that it's supportive of the police version of events is an attempt to build and advance a narrative exonerating the cop.

The whole Ferguson criminal justice system is rotten to the core.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

2seaoat wrote:Same stance if he is charging the officer.

So a person just got shot by an officer in the hand after being dragged into the squad, and after being shot starts running, and is being shot at some more, you think the natural thing to do is to turn and charge an officer with a gun in excess of fifty feet away.   What fairy tale is somebody trying to sell here.  Four witnesses who stepped forward and made public statements immediately saw the hands up.

Dragged into the squad car......better check those height and weight forensics again. Physically impossible!

boards of FL

boards of FL

2seaoat wrote:Same stance if he is charging the officer.

So a person just got shot by an officer in the hand after being dragged into the squad, and after being shot starts running, and is being shot at some more, you think the natural thing to do is to turn and charge an officer with a gun in excess of fifty feet away.   What fairy tale is somebody trying to sell here.  Four witnesses who stepped forward and made public statements immediately saw the hands up.


It makes so much sense!!!!


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Vikingwoman



I don't know if the guy had his hands up or not but I think the officer probably didn't have to shoot him so many times either. Where was his stun gun? Looks like Michael Brown was on his way to prison anyway.

Vikingwoman



Sal wrote:
Vikingwoman wrote:Sounds like Brown did try to grab the weapon in the vehicle. His blood was found on the door panel, gun and on the officer's uniform.

I don't see how you can jump to that conclusion.

There's no dispute that there was a struggle in the cop's vehicle.

Brown's companion claimed that the cop grabbed Brown, and that Brown struggled to escape, and that's when the cop pulled his gun.

The hand wound could just as easily be a defensive wound.

The leaking of this "official" autopsy and the characterizations that it's supportive of the police version of events is an attempt to build and advance a narrative exonerating the cop.

The whole Ferguson criminal justice system is rotten to the core.

Brown had wounds to his thumb and palm shot from an inch away. That's how I jumped to that conclusion.

2seaoat



Dragged into the squad car......better check those height and weight forensics again. Physically impossible!

All four witnesses said the officer grabbed and pulled Michael into the squad.....consistent with the cop being out of control from the git go telling them to get on the f'ing sidewalk......how would you have responded as you and a friend were walking on the street and a cop pulled up and said the same?

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

2seaoat wrote:Dragged into the squad car......better check those height and weight forensics again. Physically impossible!

All four witnesses said the officer grabbed and pulled Michael into the squad.....consistent with the cop being out of control from the git go telling them to get on the f'ing sidewalk......how would you have responded as you and a friend were walking on the street and a cop pulled up and said the same?

Sounds more like Brown reached into the car. Given the size of Brown...any view from witnesses would be blocked. Perhaps the "eye witnesses" were filling in the blanks.

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