800 over here, 300 over there, 1000 up North....yeah.....war is over in Iraq...or the third war against Iraq is just beginning according to most folks.
The Empty Suit should have listened to his generals and he might be finally pulling out of Iraq albeit a bit later, but with a secure and stable nation he was given by "W".
Posts : 17531 Join date : 2012-06-16 Age : 80 Location : Tallahassee
I wonder when someone is going to photo shop the photo of our semi-retired President into this picture. Probably be 2seaoat, Wordslinger or Boards of Florida.
Last edited by Markle on 8/17/2014, 12:24 am; edited 1 time in total
Posts : 8802 Join date : 2012-06-23 Location : Pace
This month's Harper's presents a story by an army general on how our general staff failed in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's well written and worth a read.
If the primary Iraq issue was policing the many factions to avoid violence (it wasn't) Pacedog is correct -- we left too soon.
One of the biggest mistakes made was back when the neocons under Bush decided to out all the governing Sunnis and hand over the reins to the Shiias. The short-sighted policy eventually put a Shiia (Maliki) in power -- guaranteeing conflict with the Kurds and Sunnis. ISIL is now the result.
The facts are, in Iraq and Afghanistan, both Presidents Bush and Obama, and our general staff have committed costly errors of judgement which resulted in our wasting thousands of American lives and trillions of American dollars.
And our position as a world leader and great military power has been denigrated.
Saving religious minorities from slaughter by a genocidal army bent on ethnic and religious cleansing, is a different matter.
The real problem for the U.S. is how to avoid fighting for a non-inclusive Shiia led Iraqi government. There is no proof whatever that the new Iraqi leader is going to be acceptable by the Kurds or the Sunnis. The whole concept of saving Iraq through the creation of a new Shiia leader has as much chance for success as a Hail Mary pass in football.
It would be nice if our State Department had a history of diplomatic successes -- but it seems that except for WWII, we've been doing things wrong for America since the Spanish-American war.
Wordslinger wrote:This month's Harper's presents a story by an army general on how our general staff failed in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's well written and worth a read.
If the primary Iraq issue was policing the many factions to avoid violence (it wasn't) Pacedog is correct -- we left too soon.
One of the biggest mistakes made was back when the neocons under Bush decided to out all the governing Sunnis and hand over the reins to the Shiias. The short-sighted policy eventually put a Shiia (Maliki) in power -- guaranteeing conflict with the Kurds and Sunnis. ISIL is now the result.
The facts are, in Iraq and Afghanistan, both Presidents Bush and Obama, and our general staff have committed costly errors of judgement which resulted in our wasting thousands of American lives and trillions of American dollars.
And our position as a world leader and great military power has been denigrated.
Saving religious minorities from slaughter by a genocidal army bent on ethnic and religious cleansing, is a different matter.
The real problem for the U.S. is how to avoid fighting for a non-inclusive Shiia led Iraqi government. There is no proof whatever that the new Iraqi leader is going to be acceptable by the Kurds or the Sunnis. The whole concept of saving Iraq through the creation of a new Shiia leader has as much chance for success as a Hail Mary pass in football.
It would be nice if our State Department had a history of diplomatic successes -- but it seems that except for WWII, we've been doing things wrong for America since the Spanish-American war.
Reality.
We should have stayed longer? We never should have attacked Iraq at all. There's your "reality".
Posts : 8802 Join date : 2012-06-23 Location : Pace
Obama's greatest problem with Iraq is his willingness to listen to the generals -- none of whom had any idea at all how to occupy and police a country we've invaded, when from the start, everyone knew we weren't going to stay.
The only countries we've conquered and succeeded at building a functional democratic state are Germany, Japan and S. Korea -- and in all these cases we made it clear we were staying for a long, long time. In fact, we are still present in these three countries.
Our foreign policy Achilles Heel seems to be the abrupt willingness of our elected leaders to engage us in wars where we have no intention of winning.
Vietnam, Somalia, Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Guatemala, El Salvador, and the list of American failures goes on and on and on.
We have never, I repeat NEVER been successful at nation building when we had no intention to stay there for less than a decade or two.
It seems our politicians want to rule the world, but don't want to pay the price -- and the American people are tired of such waste in blood and money.
It's time our leaders learned their lesson -- we won't support a war anywhere unless we really feel threatened. Iraq and Afghanistan were never perceived as real threats by We the People. Add Vietnam to that list of political and military failures!!
Bush’s “Mission Accomplished’ speech on May 1, 2003, when US casualties stood at a few hundred. The list would grow to nearly 5,000 dead and 30,000 wounded. The results: the break-up of Iraq and permanent US bases near major oil fields. The cost: $3-5 trillion to American taxpayers. (Clip from “Fahrenheit 9/11″ by Michael Moore)
WE’VE REACHED the 10th anniversary of President George W. Bush’s “Mission Accomplished” spectacle, the nadir of any US presidency since the time Richard Nixon made his getaway in a helicopter from the White House lawn. The aircraft carrier stunt was a Karl Rove PR production designed to provide images for Bush’s 2004 reelection campaign. Back in 1984, Ronald Reagan’s media Svengali, Michael Deaver, patched together– to great effect– campaign footage of a flak-jacketed Reagan gazing into binoculars at the demilitarized zone between North and South Korea. As with everything else, Rove sought to turn Bush into a cowhide version of the Great Communicator. On May 1st, 2003, Rove apparently believed that a victory lap with Bush donning a “Top Gun” costume and prancing around the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln would be political gold for 2004. Bush could burnish his “wartime president” bona fides and thwart any Democratic attempts to talk about anything other than the “War on Terror.” When the U.S. occupation of Iraq soon degenerated into the totally predictable ethnic and sectarian bloodbath it became, Rove dropped the idea of running the images and even used surrogates to blame the sailors for erecting the “Mission Accomplished” banner. In US-occupied Iraq, every car bomb, every IED, every suicide bomber, and every sectarian killing that followed that sunny day in May off the San Diego coast made a mockery of Bush’s premature spiking of the proverbial football and brought deserved derision from the rest of the world. “Major combat operations in Iraq have ended,” Bush proclaimed. “In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.” This news might come as a surprise to the families of the 3,424 Americans who died in combat in Iraq over the course of the next eight years. With all the warmongering we’ve heard lately regarding Syria from the usual suspects and the anti-Muslim bigotry following the Boston Marathon bombings, I wonder if we’ve learned anything over the past ten years…
Posts : 17531 Join date : 2012-06-16 Age : 80 Location : Tallahassee
Floridatexan wrote: Remember this from 2003?
Bush’s “Mission Accomplished’ speech on May 1, 2003, when US casualties stood at a few hundred. The list would grow to nearly 5,000 dead and 30,000 wounded. The results: the break-up of Iraq and permanent US bases near major oil fields. The cost: $3-5 trillion to American taxpayers. (Clip from “Fahrenheit 9/11″ by Michael Moore)
WE’VE REACHED the 10th anniversary of President George W. Bush’s “Mission Accomplished” spectacle, the nadir of any US presidency since the time Richard Nixon made his getaway in a helicopter from the White House lawn. The aircraft carrier stunt was a Karl Rove PR production designed to provide images for Bush’s 2004 reelection campaign. Back in 1984, Ronald Reagan’s media Svengali, Michael Deaver, patched together– to great effect– campaign footage of a flak-jacketed Reagan gazing into binoculars at the demilitarized zone between North and South Korea. As with everything else, Rove sought to turn Bush into a cowhide version of the Great Communicator. On May 1st, 2003, Rove apparently believed that a victory lap with Bush donning a “Top Gun” costume and prancing around the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln would be political gold for 2004. Bush could burnish his “wartime president” bona fides and thwart any Democratic attempts to talk about anything other than the “War on Terror.” When the U.S. occupation of Iraq soon degenerated into the totally predictable ethnic and sectarian bloodbath it became, Rove dropped the idea of running the images and even used surrogates to blame the sailors for erecting the “Mission Accomplished” banner. In US-occupied Iraq, every car bomb, every IED, every suicide bomber, and every sectarian killing that followed that sunny day in May off the San Diego coast made a mockery of Bush’s premature spiking of the proverbial football and brought deserved derision from the rest of the world. “Major combat operations in Iraq have ended,” Bush proclaimed. “In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.” This news might come as a surprise to the families of the 3,424 Americans who died in combat in Iraq over the course of the next eight years. With all the warmongering we’ve heard lately regarding Syria from the usual suspects and the anti-Muslim bigotry following the Boston Marathon bombings, I wonder if we’ve learned anything over the past ten years…
We learned, although semi-retired President Barack Hussein Obama has yet to learn, that radical, Islamic Terrorists are much like roaches. If you do not constantly keep fighting and killing them, they will take over everything.
Posts : 8802 Join date : 2012-06-23 Location : Pace
Markle wrote:
Floridatexan wrote: Remember this from 2003?
Bush’s “Mission Accomplished’ speech on May 1, 2003, when US casualties stood at a few hundred. The list would grow to nearly 5,000 dead and 30,000 wounded. The results: the break-up of Iraq and permanent US bases near major oil fields. The cost: $3-5 trillion to American taxpayers. (Clip from “Fahrenheit 9/11″ by Michael Moore)
WE’VE REACHED the 10th anniversary of President George W. Bush’s “Mission Accomplished” spectacle, the nadir of any US presidency since the time Richard Nixon made his getaway in a helicopter from the White House lawn. The aircraft carrier stunt was a Karl Rove PR production designed to provide images for Bush’s 2004 reelection campaign. Back in 1984, Ronald Reagan’s media Svengali, Michael Deaver, patched together– to great effect– campaign footage of a flak-jacketed Reagan gazing into binoculars at the demilitarized zone between North and South Korea. As with everything else, Rove sought to turn Bush into a cowhide version of the Great Communicator. On May 1st, 2003, Rove apparently believed that a victory lap with Bush donning a “Top Gun” costume and prancing around the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln would be political gold for 2004. Bush could burnish his “wartime president” bona fides and thwart any Democratic attempts to talk about anything other than the “War on Terror.” When the U.S. occupation of Iraq soon degenerated into the totally predictable ethnic and sectarian bloodbath it became, Rove dropped the idea of running the images and even used surrogates to blame the sailors for erecting the “Mission Accomplished” banner. In US-occupied Iraq, every car bomb, every IED, every suicide bomber, and every sectarian killing that followed that sunny day in May off the San Diego coast made a mockery of Bush’s premature spiking of the proverbial football and brought deserved derision from the rest of the world. “Major combat operations in Iraq have ended,” Bush proclaimed. “In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.” This news might come as a surprise to the families of the 3,424 Americans who died in combat in Iraq over the course of the next eight years. With all the warmongering we’ve heard lately regarding Syria from the usual suspects and the anti-Muslim bigotry following the Boston Marathon bombings, I wonder if we’ve learned anything over the past ten years…
We learned, although semi-retired President Barack Hussein Obama has yet to learn, that radical, Islamic Terrorists are much like roaches. If you do not constantly keep fighting and killing them, they will take over everything.
Do try and keep up with the times Herr Markle. Mr. Obama is dropping aid to entrapped ethnic minorities threatened with slaughter by Isil, and bombing Isil positions. It would be helpful if your pals in Saudi Arabia and Qatar would stop funding Isis, and send troops to defeat them before Isis moves on their ratty kingdoms.
Posts : 17531 Join date : 2012-06-16 Age : 80 Location : Tallahassee
Wordslinger wrote:
Markle wrote:
Floridatexan wrote: Remember this from 2003?
Bush’s “Mission Accomplished’ speech on May 1, 2003, when US casualties stood at a few hundred. The list would grow to nearly 5,000 dead and 30,000 wounded. The results: the break-up of Iraq and permanent US bases near major oil fields. The cost: $3-5 trillion to American taxpayers. (Clip from “Fahrenheit 9/11″ by Michael Moore)
WE’VE REACHED the 10th anniversary of President George W. Bush’s “Mission Accomplished” spectacle, the nadir of any US presidency since the time Richard Nixon made his getaway in a helicopter from the White House lawn. The aircraft carrier stunt was a Karl Rove PR production designed to provide images for Bush’s 2004 reelection campaign. Back in 1984, Ronald Reagan’s media Svengali, Michael Deaver, patched together– to great effect– campaign footage of a flak-jacketed Reagan gazing into binoculars at the demilitarized zone between North and South Korea. As with everything else, Rove sought to turn Bush into a cowhide version of the Great Communicator. On May 1st, 2003, Rove apparently believed that a victory lap with Bush donning a “Top Gun” costume and prancing around the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln would be political gold for 2004. Bush could burnish his “wartime president” bona fides and thwart any Democratic attempts to talk about anything other than the “War on Terror.” When the U.S. occupation of Iraq soon degenerated into the totally predictable ethnic and sectarian bloodbath it became, Rove dropped the idea of running the images and even used surrogates to blame the sailors for erecting the “Mission Accomplished” banner. In US-occupied Iraq, every car bomb, every IED, every suicide bomber, and every sectarian killing that followed that sunny day in May off the San Diego coast made a mockery of Bush’s premature spiking of the proverbial football and brought deserved derision from the rest of the world. “Major combat operations in Iraq have ended,” Bush proclaimed. “In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.” This news might come as a surprise to the families of the 3,424 Americans who died in combat in Iraq over the course of the next eight years. With all the warmongering we’ve heard lately regarding Syria from the usual suspects and the anti-Muslim bigotry following the Boston Marathon bombings, I wonder if we’ve learned anything over the past ten years…
We learned, although semi-retired President Barack Hussein Obama has yet to learn, that radical, Islamic Terrorists are much like roaches. If you do not constantly keep fighting and killing them, they will take over everything.
Do try and keep up with the times Herr Markle. Mr. Obama is dropping aid to entrapped ethnic minorities threatened with slaughter by Isil, and bombing Isil positions. It would be helpful if your pals in Saudi Arabia and Qatar would stop funding Isis, and send troops to defeat them before Isis moves on their ratty kingdoms.
Aug 16, 6:29 PM EDT
Islamic fighters kill scores of Yazidi men in Iraq
By DIAA HADID and SAMEER N. YACOUB Associated Press
IRBIL, Iraq (AP) -- Islamic extremists shot scores of Yazidi men to death in Iraq, lining them up in small groups and opening fire with assault rifles before abducting their wives and children, according to an eyewitness, government officials and people who live in the area.
A Yazidi lawmaker on Saturday cited the mass killing in Kocho as evidence that his people are still at risk after a week of U.S. and Iraqi airstrikes on the militants. [...] Read more: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_IRAQ?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-08-16-18-29-11
Posts : 8802 Join date : 2012-06-23 Location : Pace
Markle wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:
Markle wrote:
Floridatexan wrote: Remember this from 2003?
Bush’s “Mission Accomplished’ speech on May 1, 2003, when US casualties stood at a few hundred. The list would grow to nearly 5,000 dead and 30,000 wounded. The results: the break-up of Iraq and permanent US bases near major oil fields. The cost: $3-5 trillion to American taxpayers. (Clip from “Fahrenheit 9/11″ by Michael Moore)
WE’VE REACHED the 10th anniversary of President George W. Bush’s “Mission Accomplished” spectacle, the nadir of any US presidency since the time Richard Nixon made his getaway in a helicopter from the White House lawn. The aircraft carrier stunt was a Karl Rove PR production designed to provide images for Bush’s 2004 reelection campaign. Back in 1984, Ronald Reagan’s media Svengali, Michael Deaver, patched together– to great effect– campaign footage of a flak-jacketed Reagan gazing into binoculars at the demilitarized zone between North and South Korea. As with everything else, Rove sought to turn Bush into a cowhide version of the Great Communicator. On May 1st, 2003, Rove apparently believed that a victory lap with Bush donning a “Top Gun” costume and prancing around the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln would be political gold for 2004. Bush could burnish his “wartime president” bona fides and thwart any Democratic attempts to talk about anything other than the “War on Terror.” When the U.S. occupation of Iraq soon degenerated into the totally predictable ethnic and sectarian bloodbath it became, Rove dropped the idea of running the images and even used surrogates to blame the sailors for erecting the “Mission Accomplished” banner. In US-occupied Iraq, every car bomb, every IED, every suicide bomber, and every sectarian killing that followed that sunny day in May off the San Diego coast made a mockery of Bush’s premature spiking of the proverbial football and brought deserved derision from the rest of the world. “Major combat operations in Iraq have ended,” Bush proclaimed. “In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.” This news might come as a surprise to the families of the 3,424 Americans who died in combat in Iraq over the course of the next eight years. With all the warmongering we’ve heard lately regarding Syria from the usual suspects and the anti-Muslim bigotry following the Boston Marathon bombings, I wonder if we’ve learned anything over the past ten years…
We learned, although semi-retired President Barack Hussein Obama has yet to learn, that radical, Islamic Terrorists are much like roaches. If you do not constantly keep fighting and killing them, they will take over everything.
Do try and keep up with the times Herr Markle. Mr. Obama is dropping aid to entrapped ethnic minorities threatened with slaughter by Isil, and bombing Isil positions. It would be helpful if your pals in Saudi Arabia and Qatar would stop funding Isis, and send troops to defeat them before Isis moves on their ratty kingdoms.
Aug 16, 6:29 PM EDT
Islamic fighters kill scores of Yazidi men in Iraq
By DIAA HADID and SAMEER N. YACOUB Associated Press
IRBIL, Iraq (AP) -- Islamic extremists shot scores of Yazidi men to death in Iraq, lining them up in small groups and opening fire with assault rifles before abducting their wives and children, according to an eyewitness, government officials and people who live in the area.
A Yazidi lawmaker on Saturday cited the mass killing in Kocho as evidence that his people are still at risk after a week of U.S. and Iraqi airstrikes on the militants. [...] Read more: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_IRAQ?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-08-16-18-29-11
It appears we agree that the Isis fighters are bad guys. I'm surprised you haven't blamed this specific act of genocide to President Obama ...
Bush’s “Mission Accomplished’ speech on May 1, 2003, when US casualties stood at a few hundred. The list would grow to nearly 5,000 dead and 30,000 wounded. The results: the break-up of Iraq and permanent US bases near major oil fields. The cost: $3-5 trillion to American taxpayers. (Clip from “Fahrenheit 9/11″ by Michael Moore)
WE’VE REACHED the 10th anniversary of President George W. Bush’s “Mission Accomplished” spectacle, the nadir of any US presidency since the time Richard Nixon made his getaway in a helicopter from the White House lawn. The aircraft carrier stunt was a Karl Rove PR production designed to provide images for Bush’s 2004 reelection campaign. Back in 1984, Ronald Reagan’s media Svengali, Michael Deaver, patched together– to great effect– campaign footage of a flak-jacketed Reagan gazing into binoculars at the demilitarized zone between North and South Korea. As with everything else, Rove sought to turn Bush into a cowhide version of the Great Communicator. On May 1st, 2003, Rove apparently believed that a victory lap with Bush donning a “Top Gun” costume and prancing around the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln would be political gold for 2004. Bush could burnish his “wartime president” bona fides and thwart any Democratic attempts to talk about anything other than the “War on Terror.” When the U.S. occupation of Iraq soon degenerated into the totally predictable ethnic and sectarian bloodbath it became, Rove dropped the idea of running the images and even used surrogates to blame the sailors for erecting the “Mission Accomplished” banner. In US-occupied Iraq, every car bomb, every IED, every suicide bomber, and every sectarian killing that followed that sunny day in May off the San Diego coast made a mockery of Bush’s premature spiking of the proverbial football and brought deserved derision from the rest of the world. “Major combat operations in Iraq have ended,” Bush proclaimed. “In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.” This news might come as a surprise to the families of the 3,424 Americans who died in combat in Iraq over the course of the next eight years. With all the warmongering we’ve heard lately regarding Syria from the usual suspects and the anti-Muslim bigotry following the Boston Marathon bombings, I wonder if we’ve learned anything over the past ten years…
We learned, although semi-retired President Barack Hussein Obama has yet to learn, that radical, Islamic Terrorists are much like roaches. If you do not constantly keep fighting and killing them, they will take over everything.
Wow...and all this time, I've been thinking YOU'RE the cockroach.
Posts : 11865 Join date : 2012-06-14 Age : 72 Location : Pensacola, FL
We learned, although semi-retired President Barack Hussein Obama has yet to learn, that radical, Islamic Terrorists are much like roaches. If you do not constantly keep fighting and killing them, they will take over everything.
Posts : 11865 Join date : 2012-06-14 Age : 72 Location : Pensacola, FL
Poster Markle: "....radical, Islamic Terrorists are much like roaches. If you do not constantly keep fighting and killing them, they will take over everything..."
Markle should be overjoyed that large numbers of Palestinian children were killed in the recent Gaza conflict. Using his logic, they all either grow up to become terrorists (males) or they give birth to future terrorists (females).
The Nazi SS used the same logic to help depopulate Eastern Europe in the wake of Operation Barbarossa after 1941. The untermenschen of the conquered regions in the east were to be enslaved and worked to death, deported and starved, or just plain murdered.
Posts : 17531 Join date : 2012-06-16 Age : 80 Location : Tallahassee
ZVUGKTUBM wrote:Poster Markle: "....radical, Islamic Terrorists are much like roaches. If you do not constantly keep fighting and killing them, they will take over everything..."
Markle should be overjoyed that large numbers of Palestinian children were killed in the recent Gaza conflict. Using his logic, they all either grow up to become terrorists (males) or they give birth to future terrorists (females).
The Nazi SS used the same logic to help depopulate Eastern Europe in the wake of Operation Barbarossa after 1941. The untermenschen of the conquered regions in the east were to be enslaved and worked to death, deported and starved, or just plain murdered.
You have the wrong thread, this one is about semi-retired President Barack Hussein Obama's catastrophe in Iraq. You know, where the Obama administration claimed victory and one of the greatest accomplishments of this administration?
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