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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » Religion and Politics, Really?

Religion and Politics, Really?

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Joanimaroni
TEOTWAWKI
gatorfan
othershoe1030
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1Religion and Politics, Really? Empty Religion and Politics, Really? 6/23/2014, 9:24 am

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

Suni vs Shiite, Christians v non-Christians...Crusades, Protestants v Catholics, Hindu v Moslim etc. etc. causing all this turmoil and killing and still there are voices in this country bemoaning the removal of religious activity from the public square and prayer from schools. How blind can we be to the dangers of mixing belief in a Supreme Being with the day to day running of government?

How many of you went to schools where there was a daily prayer? I attended elementary schools in Oregon and Arizona and never had prayer in school, just the pledge to the flag. Given the history of mixing religion and politics/government, how can people not see these dangers?

Guest


Guest

I bet that there are things you were taught as a child that you do not question... they may be cultural, religious... etc.

Why do you think govts and religions want to start educating children as early as they are able? It ain't humanitarianism.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

PkrBum wrote:I bet that there are things you were taught as a child that you do not question... they may be cultural, religious... etc.

Why do you think govts and religions want to start educating children as early as they are able? It ain't humanitarianism.

The example of no prayer in public schools was given to point out that public education can exist without help from above.

I do not think it is good to mix religion and public administration. It can inform people in their private lives but as seen around the world, it can lead to needless conflicts when people get emotionally/religiously involved with their State. For that reason religion should be kept out of politics.

gatorfan



othershoe1030 wrote:
PkrBum wrote:I bet that there are things you were taught as a child that you do not question... they may be cultural, religious... etc.

Why do you think govts and religions want to start educating children as early as they are able? It ain't humanitarianism.

[color=#0033cc]The example of no prayer in public schools was given to point out that public education can exist without help from above.



I heard somewhere that as long as there are tests there will be prayer in schools....

Guest


Guest

gatorfan wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote:
PkrBum wrote:I bet that there are things you were taught as a child that you do not question... they may be cultural, religious... etc.

Why do you think govts and religions want to start educating children as early as they are able? It ain't humanitarianism.

[color=#0033cc]The example of no prayer in public schools was given to point out that public education can exist without help from above.



I heard somewhere that as long as there are tests there will be prayer in schools....

That's good gator... and I agree with the separation ot. But that doesn't mean that humans don't harbor biases.

Most of which are taught during youth. There are many things/practices we are against simply from our culture.

If I had my way (which I would never impose) there would not only be a separation of church and State...

But a separation of State and education.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Yes everyone knows that a government of men is god in this country....who needs a creator when your government can bless you with life's needs......Dear earthly government hallowed be thy name, give us this day our daily bread ... ?

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Yes everyone knows that a government of men is god in this country....who needs a creator when your government can bless you with life's needs......Dear earthly government hallowed be thy name, give us this day our daily bread ... ?
Dear earthly government hallowed be thy name, give us this day our daily bread while taxing the hell out of it.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Joanimaroni wrote:
TEOTWAWKI wrote:Yes everyone knows that a government of men is god in this country....who needs a creator when your government can bless you with life's needs......Dear earthly government hallowed be thy name, give us this day our daily bread ... ?
Dear earthly government hallowed be thy name, give us this day our daily bread while taxing the hell out of it.

Thanks for clearing out my lungs Joanni, that was a good chuckle...

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

gatorfan wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote:
PkrBum wrote:I bet that there are things you were taught as a child that you do not question... they may be cultural, religious... etc.

Why do you think govts and religions want to start educating children as early as they are able? It ain't humanitarianism.

[color=#0033cc]The example of no prayer in public schools was given to point out that public education can exist without help from above.



I heard somewhere that as long as there are tests there will be prayer in schools....

It's usually the silent variety...LOL

10Religion and Politics, Really? Empty Re: Religion and Politics, Really? 6/23/2014, 12:48 pm

Guest


Guest

othershoe1030 wrote:Suni vs Shiite, Christians v non-Christians...Crusades, Protestants v Catholics, Hindu v Moslim etc. etc. causing all this turmoil and killing and still there are voices in this country bemoaning the removal of religious activity from the public square and prayer from schools. How blind can we be to the dangers of mixing belief in a Supreme Being with the day to day running of government?

How many of you went to schools where there was a daily prayer? I attended elementary schools in Oregon and Arizona and never had prayer in school, just the pledge to the flag. Given the history of mixing religion and politics/government, how can people not see these dangers?

What's a Moslim?

Where are Christians killing people? All I see it "muslims" killing their own kind and Christians.


11Religion and Politics, Really? Empty Re: Religion and Politics, Really? 6/23/2014, 12:55 pm

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

PkrBum wrote:
gatorfan wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote:
PkrBum wrote:I bet that there are things you were taught as a child that you do not question... they may be cultural, religious... etc.

Why do you think govts and religions want to start educating children as early as they are able? It ain't humanitarianism.

The example of no prayer in public schools was given to point out that public education can exist without help from above.





I heard somewhere that as long as there are tests there will be prayer in schools....


That's good gator... and I agree with the separation ot. But that doesn't mean that humans don't harbor biases.

Most of which are taught during youth. There are many things/practices we are against simply from our culture.

If I had my way (which I would never impose) there would not only be a separation of church and State...

But a separation of State and education.


Exactly right. What we accept as normal or alright is a total reflection of the culture we were born into or adopted at an early age. This gives us each our point of view.

How we dress, what we eat how we manage our relationships with others is all a reflection of our culture. There is nothing wrong with that for sure. It is what makes living on Earth interesting.

The problem comes when the beliefs of a culture become emotionally attached to a nationalistic view coupled with religious zeal that the problems begin. This then gets extended to the desire to impose the religious views and practices on others via government policies. So we see "fights" over the display of Christian symbols on courthouse lawns here and warring bands of well armed invaders in the middle east.

Either way I'd like to see a reasonable argument for adding a religious expression to public policy. It seems to rarely be a positive influence. I can't think of any at the moment.

I say let a person's religion guide them personally but keep it out of the town square and don't arm terrorists with religious weapons of extreme emotion as we are seeing in Iraq today. (add other countries as needed).

Pacedog: Moslem, excuse the typo...Christians during the Crusades and if we are, as some contend, a Christian nation, well you don't have to look far for deaths by our hand unless you exclude our many recent wars and drone strikes.

Guest


Guest

The theocratic govt you describe sounds about the same as the progressive/socialist govt to me.

Why does everybody want to use govt to enforce their subjective beliefs, ideas, controls? The scope of govt is nearly omnipotent.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

PkrBum wrote:The theocratic govt you describe sounds about the same as the progressive/socialist govt to me.

Why does everybody want to use govt to enforce their subjective beliefs, ideas, controls? The scope of govt is nearly omnipotent.

The theocratic govt I describe are those in the middle east or anywhere there is a religious policy imposed upon the people via the government. How is that a progressive/socialist government? When/where has a progressive/socialist government had a religious influence that imposed specific views on its citizens?

That's the point, to NOT WANT the government to adopt religious reasons for doing whatever they are doing like invading another country for example. Or imposing dress codes or bans against music etc. It just adds too much zeal aka uncontrolled emotion, irrational energy to the mix.

When has mixing government and religion ever worked out well in the long run for everyone?

Guest


Guest

There's a parallel... the desire to use govt to enforce your vision of how things should be.

Your belief may be an ideologic one... rationalized by some humanitarian need. Their beliefs are rationalized by religion.

Both infringe upon an individuals rights... however small or great they may be. Humans don't need to be dominated.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

If god would come down here and fight me man to man I'd kill that no good son of a bitch and put us all out of his misery.
And yes I'm old, but so is that old geezer. I think I can take him.

Guest


Guest

Othershoe,

We are fighting Muslims because they brought the battle to our shores, not vice versa and in my seven trips across the pond to partake in the GWOT, there have been plenty of atheists putting foot in Muslim arse as well. As for drones, PM me and I can tell you al you want about it. That's what I retained into during 2012-13.

Guest


Guest

othershoe1030 wrote:
PkrBum wrote:I bet that there are things you were taught as a child that you do not question... they may be cultural, religious... etc.

Why do you think govts and religions want to start educating children as early as they are able? It ain't humanitarianism.

The example of no prayer in public schools was given to point out that public education can exist without help from above.

I do not think it is good to mix religion and public administration. It can inform people in their private lives but as seen around the world, it can lead to needless conflicts when people get emotionally/religiously involved with their State. For that reason religion should be kept out of politics.

Religion and Politics, Really? Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQZm07zabUmbzzFa9IHPafhAjYaAux3lXNIJsNy3FDClDzuT_0Ibw

Then people who send their children to private schools should be exempt from paying an educational tax to the government.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3z-BbX2Qs8

 Smile 

Guest


Guest

PkrBum wrote:There's a parallel... the desire to use govt to enforce your vision of how things should be.

Your belief may be an ideologic one... rationalized by some humanitarian need. Their beliefs are rationalized by religion.

Both infringe upon an individuals rights... however small or great they may be. Humans don't need to be dominated.

Religion and Politics, Really? Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSwg61vDBiyZGZEvO1jpCLAGf9YMSagJ-QRCKFNYTqzX3MsHWc7JA

*****WARM SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SqFPNTBnv8

 Smile 

Sal

Sal

PACEDOG#1 wrote:Othershoe,

We are fighting Muslims because they brought the battle to our shores, not vice versa and in my seven trips across the pond to partake in the GWOT, there have been plenty of atheists putting foot in Muslim arse as well. As for drones, PM me and I can tell you al you want about it. That's what I retained into during 2012-13.

Hellz yeah!

Preach it, Peedawg.

We never meddled in Middle Eastern affairs before "they brought the battle to our shores".

lol

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

PACEDOG#1 wrote:

We are fighting Muslims because they brought the battle to our shores, not vice versa  

In 1953, Eisenhower ordered the CIA to depose Mohammed Mossadegh, the popular elected leader of the Iranian parliament and an ardent nationalist who opposed British and American influence in Iran.  That was 58 years before 9/11.
The U.S. Government has been meddling in the affairs of the middle east countries ever since.

9/11 was nothing more than blowback to all that.

Guest


Guest

Sal wrote:
PACEDOG#1 wrote:Othershoe,

We are fighting Muslims because they brought the battle to our shores, not vice versa and in my seven trips across the pond to partake in the GWOT, there have been plenty of atheists putting foot in Muslim arse as well. As for drones, PM me and I can tell you al you want about it. That's what I retained into during 2012-13.

Hellz yeah!

Preach it, Peedawg.

We never meddled in Middle Eastern affairs before "they brought the battle to our shores".

lol

They've been screwing with us since the Barbary Pirates homey. Do your homework.

Guest


Guest

Bob wrote:
PACEDOG#1 wrote:

We are fighting Muslims because they brought the battle to our shores, not vice versa  

In 1953, Eisenhower ordered the CIA to depose Mohammed Mossadegh, the popular elected leader of the Iranian parliament and an ardent nationalist who opposed British and American influence in Iran.  That was 58 years before 9/11.
The U.S. Government has been meddling in the affairs of the middle east countries ever since.

9/11 was nothing more than blowback to all that.
 
This says you are FOS Bob. None of the guys that did 9-11 were Iranian.
 
Read and educate yourself. Get a subscription and stay abreast for once.
 
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/141527/ray-takeyh/what-really-happened-in-iran?cid=nlc-foreign_affairs_this_week-061914-what_really_happened_in_iran_5-061914&sp_mid=46250988&sp_rid=cmV5bm9sZHNhQG1haWwuc2FudGFyb3NhLmsxMi5mbC51cwS2

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

pacedog wrote:This says you are FOS Bob. None of the guys that did 9-11 were Iranian.
 

And none of them were Iraqis either.  

I was responding to your statement.  You said "we are fighting Muslims because they brought the battle to our shores, not vice versa".

You made the statement that 9/11 was the start of this.  But it wasn't.
Our government had been fucking over the muslim countries in the middle east for the entire 50 years prior to 9/11.  
Osama Bin Laden told us why he wanted to attack New York.  It was because our government had bombed Beirut and taken the side of a Christian regime against muslims in Lebanon many years before that.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

"God knows it did not cross our minds to attack the Towers, but after the situation became unbearable—and we witnessed the injustice and tyranny of the American-Israeli alliance against our people in Palestine and Lebanon—I thought about it. And the events that affected me directly were that of 1982 and the events that followed—when America allowed the Israelis to invade Lebanon, helped by the U.S. Sixth Fleet. As I watched the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me punish the unjust the same way: to destroy towers in America so it could taste some of what we are tasting and to stop killing our children and women."

-- Osama Bin Laden, 2004

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

What pacedog and markle and sean hannity and rush limbaugh and dick cheney and donald rumsfeld apparently do not get, is some sheer common sense most of us learned a long time ago.
If you keep poking a stick at a hornet's nest, eventually the hornet's are going to get fed up with it and try to sting you.
It's what we've been doing in the middle east for over 60 years now, and it's what pacedog and markle and hannity and limbaugh and dick cheney want us to keep doing forever. And it will eventually result in the hornets stinging us again.

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