Hotshots in Arizona last radio communications

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbc-news/53843776?from=en-us_msnhp#53843776


Please look at the wind in these conditions.........somebody should have never deployed people in these wind conditions. We have lost half of our fire fighting planes.....it is time to invest in infrastructure and quit sending raw meat into a fire with these type of winds. We need 80 new SAFE tanker replacements, and better coordination of state and federal assets........listen to these radio communications and somebody is worried about people burning up screaming into the radio......who put them in this position......you and I for not demanding replinishment of infrastructure......old unsafe tankers are being pulled out of service and we make no investment.....Americans building American tanker planes saving American firefighter lives on the ground.....when are we going to get this right.

We need to cut back on personnel, and start investing in things which actually save lives and money.

I have done natural burns in low wind conditions, and it can jump on you with just a slight wind increase. Sending people into that type of brush with those wind conditions.......somebody lost their fricking minds, and not to have immediate air support in these conditions........like the HBO special on the murders in Conn. first impressions and subsequent sweeping under the rug the folks who are paid to protect the public, and the people deployed......white wash. At some point the tragedy cannot act as a shield for bad policy choices. pouring all our resources into ground deployment to save structures which is incredibly expensive while allowing our air tankers to basically become unsafe......these policy issues should have been covered at the time of the tragedy.....not swept under the rug.

it really is too bad seaoat couldn't have gone and trained those fire fighters better. LOL

Chrissy,
You could look at the wind that day......and even you would be capable of this one decision........get the hell out of there. Weather conditions do change.......but those winds were unbelievable.

I have been chewed out if I do a natural burn when the wind is too high and I call it in.....so I think wind conditions are a pretty simple first step in deployment of men in those brush conditions and wind.

2seaoat wrote:Chrissy,
You could look at the wind that day......and even you would be capable of this one decision........get the hell out of there.    Weather conditions do change.......but those winds were unbelievable.

I have been chewed out if I do a natural burn when the wind is too high and I call it in.....so I think wind conditions are a pretty simple first step in deployment of men in those brush conditions and wind.

Even me? Oh no, not poor little ole me.   


This kind of stuff is for those burley men and since I wear my balls on my chest the hair wont grow there LOL

We are paid not for what we do but for what we are willing to do. RIP brothers

We are paid not for what we do but for what we are willing to do. RIP brothers

Somebody had to make a better decision in those wind conditions, and nobody is willing to throw their life away because of a foolish call. If people were at risk, I understand. Willing to go into that firestorm in those wind conditions was a mistake......and mistakes kill people. The real mistake is a radio show I heard where a Western state was saying how utterly unsafe the tanker planes had become in the feds inventory, and that the states had commenced on a buying of capital equipment, and the feds are still down about 80 tankers as they are frantically working out mutual aid.......This was like Ike giving the folks on Normandy canoes, and then someone saying sweeping the same under the rug when nobody made the beach. Folks need to be protected, and losing 17 men to protect some rural structures...........

2seaoat wrote:http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbc-news/53843776?from=en-us_msnhp#53843776


Please look at the wind in these conditions.........somebody should have never deployed people in these wind conditions.   We have lost half of our fire fighting planes.....it is time to invest in infrastructure and quit sending raw meat into a fire with these type of winds.   We need 80 new SAFE tanker replacements, and better coordination of state and federal assets........listen to these radio communications and somebody is worried about people burning up screaming into the radio......who put them in this position......you and I for not demanding replinishment of infrastructure......old unsafe tankers are being pulled out of service and we make no investment.....Americans building American tanker planes saving American firefighter lives on the ground.....when are we going to get this right.

We need to cut back on personnel, and start investing in things which actually save lives and money.

So first you say that it was human error that led to their deaths.

Then you say we should spend more on tankers and planes.

The problem out West is that they refuse controlled burns which would drastically reduce the intensity of the fires when they have them.  "Environmentalists" in California and other Western states have refused controlled burns because they wanted their forests "NATURAL".

Same goes for areas where there are houses.

Environmentalists" in California and other Western states have refused controlled burns because they wanted their forests "NATURAL".


Then something has changed since the big fire in Yellowstone in the 90s. The wife, kids, and I came the year after the big fire where environmentalist were saying let it burn.....it was suppose to be natural and they did not want man interfering with natural fires started by lightening.....the forest service changed that policy. My big bitch is local control burns in Garcon Point. I think the frequency and decision making in those are without science, and certainly more frequent than they need to be. You can have a control burn and three years later that area is an out of control wildfire. Homeowners need to take responsibility to clear around their homes. In my brother's subdivision, they have strict environmental rules about clearing any vegetation. Three years ago some major brush fires almost had desert mountain being evacuated. It is surprising how much material is available in a desert to feed a wildfire.

The military is outfitting police depts all over the place with high end hardware. Seems they could spare a few tons of equipment that could be adapted to help firefighters...

Gunz wrote:We are paid not for what we do but for what we are willing to do.   RIP brothers

And you are appreciated for what you do. Thank you