Pensacola Discussion Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

This is a forum based out of Pensacola Florida.


You are not connected. Please login or register

Prediction: Obamacare will be repealed

+7
Markle
gulfbeachbandit
Wordslinger
knothead
cool1
2seaoat
Nekochan
11 posters

Go to page : 1, 2  Next

Go down  Message [Page 1 of 2]

Nekochan

Nekochan

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevenhayward/2013/11/11/obamacare-will-be-repealed-well-in-advance-of-the-2014-elections/


Prediction: even ifHealthCare.gov is fixed by the end of the month (unlikely), Obamacare is going to be repealed well in advance of next year’s election.  And if the website continues to fail, the push for repeal—from endangered Democrats—will occur very rapidly.  The website is a sideshow: the real action is the number of people and businesses who are losing their health plans or having to pay a lot more.  Fixing the website will only delay the inevitable.
It is important to remember why it was so important for Obama to promise repeatedly that “if you like your health insurance/doctor, you can keep your health insurance/doctor.”  Cast your mind back to the ignominious collapse of Hillarycare in 1994.  Hillarycare came out of the box in September 1993 to high public support according to the early polls.  This was not a surprise.  Opinion polls for decades have shown a large majority of Americans support the general idea of universal health coverage.  But Hillarycare came apart as the bureaucratic details came out, the most important one being that you couldn’t be sure you’d be able to keep your doctors or select specialists of your choice.  The Clintons refused to consider a compromise, but even with large Democratic Senate and House majorities the bill was so dead it was never brought up for a vote.
Remember “Harry and Louise”?  Obama did, which is why he portrayed Obamacare as simply expanding coverage to the uninsured, and improving coverage for the underinsured while leaving the already insured undisturbed.  But the redistributive arithmetic of Obamacare’s architecture could never add up, which is what the bureaucrats knew early on—as early as 2010 according to many documents that have leaked.  The wonder is that Obama’s political team didn’t see this coming and prepare a pre-emptive strategy for dealing with the inevitable exposure of the duplicity at the heart of Obamacare’s logic.  Now that people are losing their insurance and finding that they may not be able to keep their doctor after all, Obamacare has become the domestic policy equivalent of the Iraq War: a protracted fiasco that is proving fatal to a president’s credibility and approval rating.  The only thing missing is calling in FEMA to help fix this Category-5 political disaster.
Senate Democrats endangered for re-election will lead the charge for repeal perhaps as soon as January, after they get an earful over the Christmas break.  They’ll call it “reform,” and clothe it in calls for delaying the individual mandate and allowing people and businesses to keep their existing health insurance policies.  But it is probably too late to go back in many cases.  With the political damage guaranteed to continue, the momentum toward repeal will be unstoppable.  Democrats will not want to face the voters next November with the albatross of Obamacare.
The politics of the repeal effort will be a game theorist’s dream.  Tea Party Republicans will resist “reforms” to Obamacare in favor of complete repeal.  Democrats will try to turn the tables and set up Republicans as obstacles to reform, hoping to inoculate themselves prospectively from mayhem at the polls next November. The House might want to insist that the Senate go first; after all, it was the Senate version of the bill that the House had to swallow after Scott Brown’s election in January 2010.  The House can rightly insist that the Senate needs to clean up the mess they made.  Obama may well give Capitol Hill Democrats a pass on a repeal vote, and veto any bill that emerges.  He’ll never face the voters again.
This wouldn’t be the first time that a health care entitlement was repealed.  The same thing happened in the late 1980s with catastrophic coverage for seniors.  Because seniors were made to pay for their benefits under that scheme, the uproar forced Congress to repeal the measure barely a year after it went into effect.  Obamacare looks to be on the same political trajectory, and for the same reason.  Obamacare represents the crisis of big government; the limits of administrative government have finally been breached.  For the first time ever, some polls are showing a majority of Americans doubting the goal of universal health coverage.
The hazard of the moment is that a compromise “reform” that drops the mandate and attempts to restore the insurance status quo ante could leave us with an unfunded expansion of Medicaid and a badly disrupted private insurance market.  Republicans should avoid both the political traps and a new fiscal time bomb by being ready with a serious replacement policy, based on the premium support tax credit ideas that John McCain advocated (poorly) in 2008.  While anxious liberals are in dismay, they should recognize that Obamacare may well have achieved its chief purpose of making universal or at least greatly expanded health coverage a fixture of American social policy.  The cost to liberalism may prove fatal, however.

2seaoat



Cannot ask for an easier example of a prediction which will be confirmed or denied. Obamacare will not be repealed. It certainly needs to be amended and modified as problems develop, but repealed before the end of next year......funny stuff.

Nekochan

Nekochan

It's one man's opinion but like the article says, you probably cannot put things back to the way they were.

2seaoat



probably cannot put things back to the way they were.


I agree. The substandard medical policies are going to be a thing of the past, just like the junk auto liability policies were eliminated 50 years ago with mandated minimum policies. Just wish they could do something with homeowners insurance where a state like Florida had homeowner policy providers abandon the state after fifty years of collecting premiums, and once they started to pay out they took their reserves and moved into more profitable lines leaving the citizens of Florida with..........Citizens.

Guest


Guest

If the plan was to insure the uninsured and uninsure the insured... it seems to be going very well.

Nekochan

Nekochan

PkrBum wrote:If the plan was to insure the uninsured and uninsure the insured... it seems to be going very well.
lol.

2seaoat



If the plan was to insure the uninsured and uninsure the insured... it seems to be going very well.


Couple cycles with the penalties, and lo and behold those insured who now claim they have no options will find options. Kinda like that guy who drove without liability insurance......that first ticket for no insurance makes him think twice about the economic decision to have no insurance. Simple problem and simple solution.

Nekochan

Nekochan

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/11/11/who-counts-as-an-obamacare-enrollee-the-obama-administration-settles-on-a-definition/?print=1

Who counts as an Obamacare enrollee? The Obama administration settles on a definition.
By Sarah Kliff, Updated: November 11, 2013
The fight over how to define the new health law’s success is coming down to one question: Who counts as an Obamacare enrollee?
Health insurance plans only count subscribers as enrolled in a health plan once they’ve submited a payment. That is when the carrier sends out a member card and begins paying doctor bills.
When the Obama administration releases health law enrollment figures later this week, though, it will use a more expansive definition. It will count people who have purchased a plan as well as  those who have a plan sitting in their online shopping cart but have not yet paid.
“In the data that will be released this week, ‘enrollment’ will measure people who have filled out an application and selected a qualified health plan in the marketplace,” said an administration official, who requested anonymity to frankly describe the methodology.
The disparity in the numbers is likely to further inflame the political fight over the Affordable Care Act. Each side could choose a number to make the case that the health law is making progress or failing miserably.
On Monday, the Wall Street Journal, citing anonymous sources, said insurance companies have received about 50,000 private health plan enrollments through HealthCare.gov. Even combined with state tallies, the figure falls far short of the 500,000 sign-ups the administration initially predicted for both private sign-ups and those opting for the expansion of Medicaid.
In recent weeks, administration officials have warned that the enrollment figures for October would be low, given the tumultuous launch of the health Web site.
The administration plans to use this count of enrollees because that's where their interaction with the healthcare.gov site ends, the administration official said.
Addressing the Wall Street Journal’s report, Health and Human Services spokeswoman Joanne Peters said: “We cannot confirm these numbers. More generally, we have always anticipated that initial enrollment numbers would be low and increase over time. . . . The problems with the Web site will cause the numbers to be lower than initially anticipated.”
States that have so far released enrollment data also tend to use this wider definition. The 14 states running their own insurance marketplaces have reported 49,000 enrollments in private health insurance plans, according to an analysis released Monday by consulting firm Avalere Health. They have also enrolled many thousands more into the Medicaid program, which the health-care law expanded.
"The idea that people are going to do layaway purchasing three months out goes against the American way," Rhode Island exchange director Christine Ferguson said in late September, shortly before the health law's rollout.
Different definitions of enrollment lead to vastly different estimations of who will gain coverage under the Affordable Care Act. In the District of Columbia, for example, health insurance plans reported signing up five people during the health law’s first month.
But the city’s exchange, DC Health Link, estimates that 321 people in the District  have dropped a specific health insurance plan into their shopping cart. Of those, 164 have requested an invoice for their first month’s premium from the insurance carrier.
“We recognize that most people do not have the luxury of paying for coverage in October, months before a bill is due,” exchange spokesman Richard Sorian said Friday. “I hope that all consumers here in the District remember that they have until Dec. 15 to finalize their selection by paying their first month’s premium in order to have coverage on Jan. 1, 2014.”

© The Washington Post Company

cool1

cool1

I don't think so because it is political--He has his name on it , And he don't care what we think , He will sit and hurt millions of people before he repeals and makes better , This bill was f-up from the beginning and he doesn't give a rats ass about the American people -He also knows people would be paying higher for the crap bill Mad 

most of all he had to lie to get the crap bill passed --Any one who needs to lie should have known it would be a crap bill --im mad right now , He lies to  dang much , Or he doesn't know how to read , He better do something about this crap bill he passed .

Now what-- no one is signing up for the crap bill how will the crap bill work now , People who were paying for there ins--Now say we wont because its too high .   He really did it this time ,  People will not stand for the president lying to them --get rid of the darn thing and give the people there choice , let them keep there insurance !

If you want to help people get ins--then help them and he should have left the others alone ..   what a friggin joke he is now I thought he didn't have brains But now I know he doesn't --He doesn't even know how to get himself out of this crap of lying to everyone . --lying friggin president you cant defend a president who lies over and over and over to your friggin face--Mad

knothead

knothead

Neko, I may be wrong but you seem to be rooting for this to fail, are you? For myself, I find myself wondering what the heck is going on at the executive level to be completely asleep at the wheel with this disastrous roll out. That said, going back, i.e., repeal of the PPACA, would put the insurance companies right back to controlling and abusing our population which is counter to the intent . . . . I continue to have hope that it will work itself out but it leaves me curious as to why anyone would want it to fail for simply no other reason than to leave egg on President Obama's face . . . that is irrational in my mind.

cool1

cool1

I think many wanted it to work --But its not so fix it now before more people are hurt .

What are these people going to do that lost ins---and cant sign up either Mad 

cool1

cool1

PkrBum wrote:If the plan was to insure the uninsured and uninsure the insured... it seems to be going very well.
That's what im talking about Mad 

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

2seaoat wrote:Cannot ask for an easier example of a prediction which will be confirmed or denied.   Obamacare will not be repealed.   It certainly needs to be amended and modified as problems develop, but repealed before the end of next year......funny stuff.
Seaoat, I agree with you on this, absolutely!

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Guantanamo is still open. We're still rendering people to other countries for torture/interrogation. The NSA is listening to EVERYONE and catching zero bad guys. We're still fighting in Afghanistan. Global warming continues with the Obama administration doing next to nothing about it. The COLA for seniors living on Social Security has been cut. We're still maintaining almost a thousand overseas military bases. Our defense budget continues to rise. Our educational system sucks. Our economy is still in Intensive Care, most of the new jobs are part time at minimum wage. The Minimum Wage hasn't been raised. The cost of college tuition continues to rise and little if anything has been done to help students with lower costing loans. Unemployment for youth and African Americans is terribly high. Women still don't earn equal wages. And now the Affordable Healthcare Act looks like a bad high school play.

Hope and Change? That's what we wanted, not what we got.

The only good news is Obama hasn't been replaced by Romney, Cruz, Rand Paul, Sarah Palin, et al.

Screw Amerika Inc!!

Nekochan

Nekochan

knothead wrote:Neko,  I may be wrong but you seem to be rooting for this to fail, are you? For myself, I find myself wondering what the heck is going on at the executive level to be completely asleep at the wheel with this disastrous roll out.  That said, going back, i.e., repeal of the PPACA, would put the insurance companies right back to controlling and abusing our population which is counter to the intent . . . . I continue to have hope that it will work itself out but it leaves me curious as to why anyone would want it to fail for simply no other reason than to leave egg on President Obama's face . . . that is irrational in my mind.
Why was this Obamacare Bill rushed through Congress?  Why didn't Congress take the time to come up with a bipartisan solution that would address the problems in the system without screwing with people who were happy with their policies?   Why didn't Congress know what the heck they were voting for?    How do you think this is going to work out as millions of people lose their insurance while younger people are not signing up?  It's being estimated that 50-100 million policies will be canceled over the course of the next year or so.

This is not just magically going to "work itself out".  We don't even yet know about all the problems that businesses are going to have in implementing this law and the full time jobs this law will cost.  We don't know yet how the IRS is going to manage subsidies, verify income, and issue and collect penalties.  

Why should you or I or anyone be more concerned about Obama's reputation than they are about the impact that this law has on millions of Americans and on the US economy?

gulfbeachbandit

gulfbeachbandit

Wordslinger wrote:Guantanamo is still open.  We're still rendering people to other countries for torture/interrogation.  The NSA is listening to EVERYONE and catching zero bad guys.  We're still fighting in Afghanistan. Global warming continues with the Obama administration doing next to nothing about it.  The COLA for seniors living on Social Security has been cut.  We're still maintaining almost a thousand overseas military bases.  Our defense budget continues to rise.  Our educational system sucks.  Our economy is still in Intensive Care, most of the new jobs are part time at minimum wage.  The Minimum Wage hasn't been raised.  The cost of college tuition continues to rise and little if anything has been done to help students with lower costing loans.  Unemployment for youth and African Americans is terribly high.  Women still don't earn equal wages.  And now the Affordable Healthcare Act looks like a bad high school play.

Hope and Change?  That's what we wanted, not what we got.

The only good news is Obama hasn't been replaced by Romney, Cruz, Rand Paul, Sarah Palin, et al.  

Screw Amerika Inc!!
I changed my mind. I prefer profanity over stupidity. Maybe you should start calling all the smart people cuntface or racist when they disagree with you. Just like the other liberals do. Didn't you get the memo?

knothead

knothead

Nekochan wrote:
knothead wrote:Neko,  I may be wrong but you seem to be rooting for this to fail, are you? For myself, I find myself wondering what the heck is going on at the executive level to be completely asleep at the wheel with this disastrous roll out.  That said, going back, i.e., repeal of the PPACA, would put the insurance companies right back to controlling and abusing our population which is counter to the intent . . . . I continue to have hope that it will work itself out but it leaves me curious as to why anyone would want it to fail for simply no other reason than to leave egg on President Obama's face . . . that is irrational in my mind.
Why was this Obamacare Bill rushed through Congress?  Why didn't Congress take the time to come up with a bipartisan solution that would address the problems in the system without screwing with people who were happy with their policies?   Why didn't Congress know what the heck they were voting for?    How do you think this is going to work out as millions of people lose their insurance while younger people are not signing up?  It's being estimated that 50-100 million policies will be canceled over the course of the next year or so.

This is not just magically going to "work itself out".  We don't even yet know about all the problems that businesses are going to have in implementing this law and the full time jobs this law will cost.  We don't know yet how the IRS is going to manage subsidies, verify income, and issue and collect penalties.  

Why should you or I or anyone be more concerned about Obama's reputation than they are about the impact that this law has on millions of Americans and on the US economy?
So then you are rooting for any reform to fail? There must be mitigation to problems in lieu of going back to the days of insurance companies only insuring the healthy.

2seaoat



Why didn't Congress take the time to come up with a bipartisan solution

That is the easiest question I have been asked all day. The Democrats wanted a Public option, but they compromised to the ACA. The Republicans only health compromise was buying insurance over state lines. There was no Bipartisan solution, and without the public option, there has been no fire under insurance companies to make this work. The public option has to be the next bipartisan step in fixing the ACA, but that will be Hillary's problem.

Nekochan

Nekochan

knothead wrote:
Nekochan wrote:
knothead wrote:Neko,  I may be wrong but you seem to be rooting for this to fail, are you? For myself, I find myself wondering what the heck is going on at the executive level to be completely asleep at the wheel with this disastrous roll out.  That said, going back, i.e., repeal of the PPACA, would put the insurance companies right back to controlling and abusing our population which is counter to the intent . . . . I continue to have hope that it will work itself out but it leaves me curious as to why anyone would want it to fail for simply no other reason than to leave egg on President Obama's face . . . that is irrational in my mind.
Why was this Obamacare Bill rushed through Congress?  Why didn't Congress take the time to come up with a bipartisan solution that would address the problems in the system without screwing with people who were happy with their policies?   Why didn't Congress know what the heck they were voting for?    How do you think this is going to work out as millions of people lose their insurance while younger people are not signing up?  It's being estimated that 50-100 million policies will be canceled over the course of the next year or so.

This is not just magically going to "work itself out".  We don't even yet know about all the problems that businesses are going to have in implementing this law and the full time jobs this law will cost.  We don't know yet how the IRS is going to manage subsidies, verify income, and issue and collect penalties.  

Why should you or I or anyone be more concerned about Obama's reputation than they are about the impact that this law has on millions of Americans and on the US economy?
So then you are rooting for any reform to fail? There must be mitigation to problems in lieu of going back to the days of insurance companies only insuring the healthy.
No, I didn't say that.  We needed reform.  We didn't need for millions to lose their insurance.

knothead

knothead

No, I didn't say that. We needed reform. We didn't need for millions to lose their insurance.

But the threads you have posted belie your inner desires and that you want this reform to fail then? It's all I can take away from your posts and your attitude . . .

2seaoat



We didn't need for millions to lose their insurance.


So it is a good thing for millions to have substandard health insurance which Bob's policy represents. Millions when they do become ill are bankrupt. I have great insurance but the costs of Illness just consume a person, so we do not need insurance which actually covers the health care needs of the beneficiaries and limits the administrative profit. We don't need tens of millions with preexisting conditions to find coverage, or 26 year old kids trying to get on their feet still being able to be on their parents policy. Politics aside, there have been enormous advancements for American health care. The focus on 3% losing sub par policies and ignoring the advancements sounds like you really want this to fail and people to be hurt. Politics do not mean that much to me. I want people at their worse time to have a safety net.

gulfbeachbandit

gulfbeachbandit

2seaoat wrote:We didn't need for millions to lose their insurance.


So it is a good thing for millions to have substandard health insurance which Bob's policy represents.   Millions when they do become ill are bankrupt.  I have great insurance but the costs of Illness just consume a person, so we do not need insurance which actually covers the health care needs of the beneficiaries and limits the administrative profit.   We don't need tens of millions with preexisting conditions to find coverage, or 26 year old kids trying to get on their feet still being able to be on their parents policy.  Politics aside, there have been enormous advancements for American health care.   The focus on 3% losing sub par policies and ignoring the advancements sounds like you really want this to fail and people to be hurt.  Politics do not mean that much to me.  I want people at their worse time to have a safety net.
Ever think about taking a short story writing class? Maybe you should. Nobody reads your novels that you write. Get to the point, fast. Like your counterparts. Or you can just say "cuntface" to your superiors and call it a day.

Nekochan

Nekochan

knothead wrote:No, I didn't say that.  We needed reform.  We didn't need for millions to lose their insurance.

But the threads you have posted belie your inner desires and that you want this reform to fail then? It's all I can take away from your posts and your attitude . . .
What I see about it so far, I think it should be scrapped and Congress should start over.  Wasn't the average family supposed to save $2500 a year with Obamacare?  Is this happening?  Weren't people supposed to be able to keep their insurance if they liked it?  What I am hearing is that people are losing their insurance and are seeing new policies that cost them more. How is this success to you?  Are you more worried about Obama's legacy than what's best for Americans?

Markle

Markle

knothead wrote:Neko,  I may be wrong but you seem to be rooting for this to fail, are you? For myself, I find myself wondering what the heck is going on at the executive level to be completely asleep at the wheel with this disastrous roll out.  That said, going back, i.e., repeal of the PPACA, would put the insurance companies right back to controlling and abusing our population which is counter to the intent . . . . I continue to have hope that it will work itself out but it leaves me curious as to why anyone would want it to fail for simply no other reason than to leave egg on President Obama's face . . . that is irrational in my mind.
You can call it ObamaCare, even President Barack Hussein Obama calls it that now.

Yes, I am rooting for this to FAIL which is what Conservatives and Republicans have been saying would happen for FIVE YEARS.  It is unworkable, unaffordable and unsustainable.  President Obama and the Democrats all knew this before it was ever passed.  They had to lie and they knew they were lying in order to cram it up the...throats of low information voters.

The vast majority of insurance companies took good care of their customers.  There are two or three items about ObamaCare which are good and they could easily have been solved with separate bits of legislation.  Not a total catastrophe!

Nekochan

Nekochan

2seaoat wrote:We didn't need for millions to lose their insurance.


So it is a good thing for millions to have substandard health insurance which Bob's policy represents.   Millions when they do become ill are bankrupt.  I have great insurance but the costs of Illness just consume a person, so we do not need insurance which actually covers the health care needs of the beneficiaries and limits the administrative profit.   We don't need tens of millions with preexisting conditions to find coverage, or 26 year old kids trying to get on their feet still being able to be on their parents policy.  Politics aside, there have been enormous advancements for American health care.   The focus on 3% losing sub par policies and ignoring the advancements sounds like you really want this to fail and people to be hurt.  Politics do not mean that much to me.  I want people at their worse time to have a safety net.
Right, I want people to hurt. Rolling Eyes  Where did I say anything remotely like that?  I said that we needed reform.  Please try to have an honest discussion without making baseless accusations.   
It is being reported that many, many more than 3% will eventually lose their policies and that many of these people had good insurance that they liked.

Sponsored content



Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 2]

Go to page : 1, 2  Next

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum