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Pensacola Discussion Forum » General Discussion » How the mainstream media helps pull wool over our eyes ....

How the mainstream media helps pull wool over our eyes ....

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othershoe1030
no stress
2seaoat
Wordslinger
8 posters

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Wordslinger

Wordslinger

On FOX news, "journalist-reporter" Judith Miller pointed out that the NSA leak scandal reporting had made Snowden and his situation the main issue -- instead of what he had revealed.

After her stint as a Dubya spokes-person, she's been one of the FOX "regulars" who can be relied upon to add her anti-Obama criticism to the other talking heads for the far right.

However, in this case she's absolutely right, and even from my normally progressive stance, I find myself applauding her conviction.

It just goes to show that the current Big Brother revelations are equally offensive to the left and the right.  And, as she said, the real story isn't the pursuit of Snowden by Big Brother, but the news that our email, our phone calls, our web surfing, our whereabouts, our EVERYTHING is being collected by our government in what was, until Manning's and Snowden's whistle blowing, a top-secret effort ostensibly employed in the ongoing "war on terror."

Uh huh.  Yeah.  But consider -- the folks who get to determine just who is, and is not a "terrorist" are the same folks who regularly use agencies of the government, to harrass and control anyone they don't trust.  And while you're at it, consider also that the way they've set-up the system, they can audit, arrest, interrogate, render you to one of our erstwhile "allies" for waterboarding and other unpleasant action, with ZERO legal oversight.  

So, the way the game is belng played, just who is a terrorist?  If you answer "anyone they want to control or punish," you win the prize -- a signed copy of Orwell's famous formerly fictional work "1984."  Thinking of demonstrating with PETA against animal cruelty?  You qualify.  Thinking of protesting the Keystone Pipeline Project? Or Bank of America, Wall Street, Exxon?  Or demonstrating in front of the IRS headquarters (where the residents are paid bonuses to practice line dance techniques and film making) your government has Chinese-made zip-ties all ready for use.

Thinking of rallying a few hundred demonstrators against ANY governmental agency?  Well, if you can do so without using the internet or your cell phone you might be able to hold one or two organizational meetings without FBI, Cia OR NSA agents joining in, but I wouldn't bank on it.  

Remember -- Your government doesn't trust you.  

It's nice to know who your enemies really are.

Screw Amerika Inc!!



Last edited by Wordslinger on 7/1/2013, 6:51 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Indigestion)

2seaoat



Exactly what was revealed? It has been common knowledge that the stream has been collected since the mid nineties.......Mainstream media........maybe folks with limited information are getting excited, but for folks who have been informed.....Snowden has revealed nothing new....nothing. What is against the law? Where is the expectation of privacy on the internet? Is this some statutory scheme we are not aware of? Is this some expectation by those who are technologically challenged? Does one have an expectation of privacy in being listed in a phone book? Is there an expectation of privacy when a person puts their information on a display board above their house...........the Snowden story is about folks who are technologically challenged getting excited. If you have an expectation of privacy on the internet, maybe you need to talk to your representative to create law to stop data mining........it will not happen.....there is no expectation of privacy on the internet.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

2seaoat wrote:Exactly what was revealed?   It has been common knowledge that the stream has been collected since the mid nineties.......Mainstream media........maybe folks with limited information are getting excited, but for folks who have been informed.....Snowden has revealed nothing new....nothing.   What is against the law?   Where is the expectation of privacy on the internet?   Is this some statutory scheme we are not aware of?   Is this some expectation by those who are technologically challenged?  Does one have an expectation of privacy in being listed in a phone book?   Is there an expectation of privacy when a person puts their information on a display board above their house...........the Snowden story is about folks who are technologically challenged getting excited.   If you have an expectation of privacy on the internet, maybe you need to talk to your representative to create law to stop data mining........it will not happen.....there is no expectation of privacy on the internet.


The internet is only one source, as you well know. Big Brother is also monitoring our cell phone conversations (the FBI admits is has been listening), our movements, who we talk to and who they talk to, etc.

And while you think they've been doing all this for years and everybody knew it, why then is Snowden's revelations such a big deal to the government? The truth is, the government believed all its nefarious activities to monitor everyone was secret .. and that's why they're so pissed over Snowden's revelations.

If you want to trust the same government that has maneuvered the law to enable them to listen to everything, monitor everyone, and admittedly used secret data to harass anyone they consider any kind of threat .... why are you so naive?

no stress

no stress

I have to agree with wordslinger on this one. The average guy probably had suspicions that his internet activities were possibly being monitored but until Snowden came out and confirmed that all Americans internet and phone conversations were being monitored it was just that, a suspicion.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

I have to agree with SO on this one. It seems to me that the only way the government has to connect the dots re planned terrorist attacks is to know who the dots are talking to. They are looking for patterns of communication they are not listening to our conversations or reading our email. If they weren't doing this and another attack occurred it would be the same people squealing about the government's lack of diligence and sophistication in the surveillance realm.

It is surprising to me that so many people are surprised. Haven't we all joked about having men in black show up on our doorstep after posting some weird comment? We know our on line communications are not private.

I think our government has been sloppy in its use of subcontractors as seen by Snowdon's apparent low status. Obviously these revelations are embarrassing to the government. Not enough safeguards were in place to prevent this type of event.  

Sal

Sal

othershoe1030 wrote:I have to agree with SO on this one. It seems to me that the only way the government has to connect the dots re planned terrorist attacks is to know who the dots are talking to. They are looking for patterns of communication they are not listening to our conversations or reading our email. If they weren't doing this and another attack occurred it would be the same people squealing about the government's lack of diligence and sophistication in the surveillance realm.

It is surprising to me that so many people are surprised. Haven't we all joked about having men in black show up on our doorstep after posting some weird comment? We know our on line communications are not private.

I think our government has been sloppy in its use of subcontractors as seen by Snowdon's apparent low status. Obviously these revelations are embarrassing to the government. Not enough safeguards were in place to prevent this type of event.   

Well written.

The problem is that out national security apparatus has become so vast and unwieldy that it has become impossible to manage effectively.

For the same group who demanded these tools and funds be provided to the government, to now decry their use, is disingenuous to put it mildly.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

Sal wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote:I have to agree with SO on this one. It seems to me that the only way the government has to connect the dots re planned terrorist attacks is to know who the dots are talking to. They are looking for patterns of communication they are not listening to our conversations or reading our email. If they weren't doing this and another attack occurred it would be the same people squealing about the government's lack of diligence and sophistication in the surveillance realm.

It is surprising to me that so many people are surprised. Haven't we all joked about having men in black show up on our doorstep after posting some weird comment? We know our on line communications are not private.

I think our government has been sloppy in its use of subcontractors as seen by Snowdon's apparent low status. Obviously these revelations are embarrassing to the government. Not enough safeguards were in place to prevent this type of event.   

Well written.

The problem is that out national security apparatus has become so vast and unwieldy that it has become impossible to manage effectively.

For the same group who demanded these tools and funds be provided to the government, to now decry their use, is disingenuous to put it mildly.

Same guys who are agin' big govment too yet the spy apparatus has grown by leaps and bounds, government jobs all and not exactly along the lines of the FREEDOM loving mindset of those who complain the loudest.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan


Booz Allen Hamilton is owned 2/3 by the Carlyle Group.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-10/911-prismgate-how-carlyle-group-lbod-worlds-secrets

2seaoat



Anybody who has a portable phone in their home is communicating via radio waves to the base phone, and those conversations can easily be picked up by any scanner. I saw where a Super in a school district got clever talking business with folks from home.....unfortunately his enemies had scanners and listened to his phone conversations.....somebody who was stupid recorded the conversation and took it to the school board meeting....oppps all the way around. We need Congress to address the expectation of privacy and define the same in light of current technology......this discussion must begin and end with technology.

Government or private parties who cross over the line of what is private must have sanctions........but in this rapidly changing technology, if one expects privacy with current levels of protocols......it is a foolish expectation.

VectorMan

VectorMan

The liberal/mainstream media has a bad habit of censoring the news. What they don't report is just as important as what they want you to believe with what they do report. (i.e. Obamessiah)

no stress

no stress

2seaoat wrote:Anybody who has a portable phone in their home is communicating via radio waves to the base phone, and those conversations can easily be picked up by any scanner.   I saw where a Super in a school district got clever talking business with folks from home.....unfortunately his enemies had scanners and listened to his phone conversations.....somebody who was stupid recorded the conversation and took it to the school board meeting....oppps all the way around.   We need Congress to address the expectation of privacy and define the same in light of current technology......this discussion must begin and end with technology.

Government or private parties who cross over the line of what is private must have sanctions........but in this rapidly changing technology, if one expects privacy with current levels of protocols......it is a foolish expectation.
  True but they are of such low power that only a nosey neighbor a house or two down at best will be within range to pickup the conversation.   Certainly you don't think that they send out a signal that can be received miles away. Very bad example anyway and not even on the same planet as what wordslinger is talking about.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

There is no truth in the statement that freedom and security are mutually exclusive. I doubt that anyone here would care if the data mining taking place was being used expressly to counter violent terrorism.

But the facts are, our government lied about what it was doing (top ranking members of the NSA and other security agencies lied before congress when asked specifically if they were recording everyone's cell phone calls, and reading everyone's emails).

What it really boils down to is whether we can trust our government. Iraq, Benghazi, collecting reporter's phone records, the IRS pursuing organizations for their political affiliations and activities. Mr. Obama now has utter control over secretly arresting, interrogating, rendering and executing (by drone or otherwise) as he sees fit with absolutely NO legal oversight.

There are many constitutional scholars and judges who consider the above to be totally illegal and unconstitutional.

The government's excuse (now they've been caught with their pants down) is they have to do all this data mining (and listening and reading private communications) to protect us from violent terrorists.

But they're already targeting reporters, news media, and organizations whom they consider objectionable, and "potentially" dangerous.

Just like those Miami-Dade cops who shot the black teenager carrying a puppy because he "looked at them in a menacing way, and was potentially dangerous."

What's dangerous isn't the technology that allows our government to collect intelligence -- it's the inability of Congress and the Justice system to make sure we avoid becoming the same sort of tyranny Germany and Russia experienced under Nazism and Soviet Communism.

On the plus side, it's clear from the Boston marathon bombing that NONE of the intel-collecting agencies that are supposed to protect us are up to the job.

Look, in simple terms, if you trust our government to use the intel they collect wisely and in a way that's beneficial to Americans at large, then act accordingly.

As for myself, I trust our government just as much as I trust Bank of America.

Reality!


TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Innocent till proven guilty means that the government has no right to presume MY guilt and monitor my communications but those raised up to grovel to authority must lap this up like mother's milk...I am ashamed of those that don't understand nay, am astounded at those that don't fathom the evil of this !

Sal

Sal

Wordslinger wrote:

But the facts are, our government lied about what it was doing (top ranking members of the NSA and other security agencies lied before congress when asked specifically if they were recording everyone's cell phone calls, and reading everyone's emails).


I'm as troubled by our exploding national security apparatus as anyone, but stop with the histrionics.

They are NOT "recording everyone's cell phone calls and reading everyone's emails.

They are essentially vacuuming up huge amounts of data and storing it.

To go any further than that, they must get a warrant from the FISA court.

And to be completely clear on the matter, there is nothing illegal about what they're doing under current law.

It's Orwellian enough without all your wild exaggerations and hair ignition.

Stick with the reality.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Sal wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:

But the facts are, our government lied about what it was doing (top ranking members of the NSA and other security agencies lied before congress when asked specifically if they were recording everyone's cell phone calls, and reading everyone's emails).


I'm as troubled by our exploding national security apparatus as anyone, but stop with the histrionics.

They are NOT "recording everyone's cell phone calls and reading everyone's emails.

They are essentially vacuuming up huge amounts of data and storing it.

To go any further than that, they must get a warrant from the FISA court.

And to be completely clear on the matter, there is nothing illegal about what they're doing under current law.

It's Orwellian enough without all your wild exaggerations and hair ignition.

Stick with the reality.

How the mainstream media helps pull wool over our eyes .... Elepha10

Yes the elephant can be eaten bite by bite and so goes this great country down the gullet of authoritarianism.

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