First the queers screwed up the Boy Scouts, and now they're screwing up pro football too.

http://www.mercurynews.com/sports/ci_22485315/super-bowl-2013-anti-gay-statement-stirs-up

Bob,

I am a tolerant person. However, as a Sophomore in high school we were assigned lockers in gym class alphabetically. I had an individual next to me every day after we showered wanting to debate me that in America 10% of all men are homosexuals. Now I was standing next to this person as he is obviously staring and quite honestly making me uncomfortable. Most people like the idea of showering without stimulating folks around you. It was not until later years that this person came out and it was no surprise to me. I felt like I was nude on the Miss America runway at a state prison where death row inmates could get up close and personal. So, I have a great deal of empathy with the simple expectation that one can shower with team members without sexual leers or comments. However, to make fun of a person's sexuality is silliness and often mean spirited and hurtful. The black culture, and specifically professional sports are slow to accept homosexuality, and it may take time to overcome prejudice, but it is not prejudice when you are standing nude in a locker room and somebody is leering at you with obvious sexual conversation....so I certainly understand the players less than articulate concern.

2seaoat wrote:Bob,

I am a tolerant person. However, as a Sophomore in high school we were assigned lockers in gym class alphabetically. I had an individual next to me every day after we showered wanting to debate me that in America 10% of all men are homosexuals. Now I was standing next to this person as he is obviously staring and quite honestly making me uncomfortable. Most people like the idea of showering without stimulating folks around you. It was not until later years that this person came out and it was no surprise to me. I felt like I was nude on the Miss America runway at a state prison where death row inmates could get up close and personal. So, I have a great deal of empathy with the simple expectation that one can shower with team members without sexual leers or comments. However, to make fun of a person's sexuality is silliness and often mean spirited and hurtful. The black culture, and specifically professional sports are slow to accept homosexuality, and it may take time to overcome prejudice, but it is not prejudice when you are standing nude in a locker room and somebody is leering at you with obvious sexual conversation....so I certainly understand the players less than articulate concern.

He was fulla shit in two ways. Firstly the commonly accepted figure is that about 4% of the population (both men and women) are homosexual (some studies have figured it to be 3% and some 5% so I'm averaging that at 4%) If it was 10% men it would be about that many women too and that would make for 1 in 5 being homosexuals. If 1 in 5 were homos there woulda been a lot bigger homo turnout at the local chik-fil-a protest than there was which was nobody. lol

Secondly, any homosexual who can't refrain from coming on to a heterosexual is just retarded. That's like mooslims who fly into world trade centers. Bad apples who make the whole group look bad.

hallmarkgrad wrote:Damn!! NASCAR is our only hope. LOL

Rumor has it that a souped up pink prius is about to be entered into Daytona.

Secondly, any homosexual who can't refrain from coming on to a heterosexual is just retarded.

I guess my recollection was not that he was coming on, just a very uncomfortable feeling of being stared at, and a constant return to the subject of the percentage of homosexuals in the male population. I saw him after high school working in a camera shop, and read that his father who was a judge committed suicide, but beyond that I never felt threatened or felt that he was overtly coming on to me. I guess it is interesting to bridge this question now.......would I have been more uncomfortable if he had come out in high school, and had the same conversations as I stood next to him nude and drying off after a shower......I think my honest answer would be yes. Would I refuse to shower where an announced homosexual was present......actually, I think I would shower with no problems, because some percentage of folks announced or unannounced are attracted to the same sex and to simply punish those who are honest by attacking their sexual preference would be wrong. However, I would not be honest if I told you I was comfortable with the conversation or stares.

[quote="Sal"][font=Arial Black]The dude plays on the same team as David Akers .

OK that was funny!...

I had a phone conversation with my cousin in North Carolina this morning.
He revealed to me that Gomer Pyle just got married to a man. I wonder what in the world Aunt Bee would say.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/entertainment&id=8975045

He revealed to me that Gomer Pyle just got married to a man


Shazam!", "G-o-l-l-y", "Sur-prise, sur-prise, sur-prise!", and "shame, shame, shame!",

2seaoat wrote:He revealed to me that Gomer Pyle just got married to a man


Shazam!", "G-o-l-l-y", "Sur-prise, sur-prise, sur-prise!", and "shame, shame, shame!",

********************************************************

CITIZENS ARREST! CITIZENS ARREST!!!

Bob wrote:http://www.mercurynews.com/sports/ci_22485315/super-bowl-2013-anti-gay-statement-stirs-up

Don't forget what they did to the military and memorial day on the local beaches.

Isn't this what closets were invented for?

I can definitely say, without hesitation, that I have been "approached" (complete understatement) by a member of the same sex. And that it wasn't a problem. Now, if that person had been crazy, there might have been a problem. Otherwise, no problem. BTW, I love this thread. What are those dang homosexuals going to screw up next? A pox on them.

Floridatexan wrote:
I can definitely say, without hesitation, that I have been "approached" (complete understatement) by a member of the same sex. And that it wasn't a problem. Now, if that person had been crazy, there might have been a problem. Otherwise, no problem. BTW, I love this thread. What are those dang homosexuals going to screw up next? A pox on them.

You probably have the look and you do give off the vibe.
I kind of figured you went that way from most of your postings. Closet door was half open in your case.

?

Ghandi wrote:

Don't forget what they did to the military

In Oct, 2011, Chris Wallace interviewed Rick Santorum on Fox News.
This is part of the interview.

SANTORUM: Well, they (homosexuals) are in close -- they are in close quarters. They live with people. They shower with people, the whole kinds -- all the things that they are involved in living in a barracks, or living out in the field, those are issues that again, some people, you are talking about that individual person, but you're talking about the ability for people to be able to have that unit cohesion, to be able to work together in a efficient fighting way. And, obviously, and also, by the way, the effect on retention and recruitment of people to live in that environment. And yes, there are people who feel uncomfortable in that environment.

WALLACE: Senator, I want to put up a quote for you. "The Army is not a sociological laboratory. Experimenting with Army policy, especially in time of war would pose a danger to efficiency, discipline and morale and would result in ultimate defeat."
Does that sound about right, sir?

SANTORUM: Roughly, yes.

WALLACE: That's a quote from Colonel Eugene Householder who is in the Army Adjutant General's Office in 1941, arguing against racial integration in the military.

There have been some very serious issues but people just dont talk about them.'http://www.history.navy.mil/library/special/racial_incidents.htm
You can read more but you get the jest of the issue. Just one of many. the Army had severe issues also.

The Kitty Hawk riots.
The first confrontation

At approximately 7 p.m., in October 12, 1972, the ship's investigator called a black sailor to his office for questioning about his activities in the Subic Bay. He was accompanied by nine other black men. They were belligerent, loud, and used abusive language. Those accompanying him were not allowed to sit in on the investigation. The sailor was apprised of his rights, refused to make a statement and was allowed to leave. Shortly after he left a young messcook was assaulted on the after messdeck. Within a few minutes after that, another young messcook was assaulted on the forward messdeck. In each instance, this same sailor was on the scene.

The first indication of widespread trouble aboard ship occurred at about 8 p.m. A large number of blacks congregated on the after messdeck, one of two enlisted dining areas. A messcook alerted the Marine Detachment Reaction Force. During the ensuing confrontation between the Marines and black sailors, the corporal of the guard, the only person carrying a firearm, attempted, or appeared to have attempted to draw his weapon. In any event it was not drawn. This incident appears in the testimony, at least in retrospect, to have been one of the more inflammatory events of the early evening.

At this point the Executive Officer (XO), a black man, arrived on the after messdeck, ordered the Marines to withdraw closed off the hatches into the messdeck area, and, in company with the ship's senior enlisted advisor, a white master chief petty officer, remained inside with the black sailors. As the XO attempted to calm the crowd, the Commanding Officer (CO) entered the area behind him. The XO unaware of the CO's presence, continued to address the crowd. The XO urged all to calm down, asked the apparent leaders of the group to discuss their problem in his cabin, and assured the group that the Marines had been sent below. After an hour or so of discussion, the XO, feeling that the incident was over, released the men to continue about their business.

The CO, having noted the hostile attitude of the group being addressed by the XO, left the area and instructed the Commanding Officer of the Marines to establish additional aircraft security watches and patrols on the hangar and fight decks. The Marines were given additional instructions by their CO to break up any group of three or more sailors who might appear on the aircraft decks, and disperse them.

Confrontation on the hangar deck

As the XO released the group of blacks with whom he had been talking, the major portion of them left the after messdeck by way of the hangar deck. Upon seeing the blacks come onto the hangar deck, the Marines attempted to disperse them. The Marines at the moment were some 26 strong and, trained in riot control procedures, they formed a line and advanced on the blacks, containing them to the after end of the hanger deck. Several blacks were arrested and handcuffed while the remainder, arming themselves with aircraft tie-down chains, confronted the Marines. At this point, the ship's CO appeared and, moving into the space between the Marines and the blacks, attempted to control the situation. The XO, upon being informed of this activity, headed there, arriving in time to see a heavy metal bar thrown from the area of the blacks land near and possibly hit the CO. At this point, the XO was informed that a sailor had been seriously injured below decks, so he departed. The CO, meanwhile, ordered the prisoners released and the Marines to return to their compartment while he attempted to restore order personally.

Marauding bands

The XO, after going below, became aware that small groups, ranging from 5 to 25 blacks, were marauding about the ship attacking whites, pulling many sleeping sailors from their berths and beating them with their fists and chains, dogging wrenches, metal pipes, fire extinguisher nozzles and broom handles. While engaged in this behavior, many were heard to shout, "Kill the son-of-a-bitch! Kill the white trash! Kill, kill, kill!" Others shouting, "They are killing our brothers." Understandably, the ship's dispensary was the scene of intense activity with the doctors and corpsmen working on the injured personnel. Alarmingly, another group of blacks harassed them and the men waiting to be treated.

The XO was then informed by at least two sources that the CO had been injured or killed on the hangar deck. Not sure of the facts but believing the reports could be true, the XO made an announcement over the ship's public address system ordering all the ship's blacks to the after messdeck and the Marines to the forecastle, thereby putting as much distance between the two groups as possible.

Conflicting orders

The CO, still on the hangar deck talking to a dwindling number of the black sailors, was surprised and distressed at the XO's announcement. At this point he was still unaware of the various groups of black assaulting their white shipmates in several different areas of the ship, and he was, obviously, neither dead nor injured. He headed for the nearest public address system microphone, found the XO there, held a brief conference with the XO, and made an announcement of his own to the effect that the XO had been misinformed and that all hands should return to their normal duties. The announcements by the CO and XO, occurring around midnight, were the first indication to the majority of the crew that there was troubled aboard.

The final confrontation

The blacks seemed to gravitate to the forecastle. Their attitude was extremely hostile. Of the 150 or so who were present, most were armed. The XO followed one group to the forecastle, entered and, as he later stated, he believed that had he not been black he would have been killed on the spot. He addressed the group for about two hours, reluctantly ignoring his status as the XO and instead appealing to the men as one black to another. After some time he acquired control over the group, calmed them down, had them put their weapons at his feet or over the side, and then ordered them to return to their compartments. The meeting broke up about 2:30 in the morning and for all intents and purposes, the violence aboard Kitty Hawk was over.

The ship fulfilled its combat mission schedule that morning and for the remainder of her time on station. During this period Kitty Hawk established a record 177 days on the line in a single deployment. After the incident senior enlisted men and junior officers were placed in each berthing compartment and patrolled the passageways during night-time hours to ensure that similar incidents would not recur.

The 21 men who were charged with offense under the Uniform Code of Military Justice and who requested civilian counsel, were put ashore at Subic Bay to be later flown to San Diego to meet the ship on its return. The remaining 5 charged were brought to trial aboard the ship during its transit back to the United States.

A total of 47 men, all but 6 or 7 of them white, were treated for injuries on the night of October 12-13, 1972; three required medical evacuation to shore hospitals while the rest were treated aboard the ship.

B. THE "CONSTELLATION" INCIDENT

On July 1, 1972, the U.S.S. Constellation returned to San Diego after completing her sixth combat deployment to Southeast Asia. Under current policies, a returning ship is granted a 30-day stand-down period during which time the majority of the crew is given leave. On August 1st the ship was placed in nonoperational status while her crew and shipyard personnel performed relatively extensive repairs, overhaul and renovation. During this 2-month period there was a turnover of over 1300 personnel in the crew, with over 900 new men reporting aboard for duty. On October 4th the ship commenced refresher training, putting to sea to test the new equipment and to train the new personnel.

Clandestine meeting

Late at night on the seventeenth, a group of blacks held a clandestine meeting in the ship's barbershop. The next day an open meeting was held on the portion of the after messdecks known as "sidewalk cafe". The Executive Officer (XO) attended this meeting at the Commanding Officer's (CO) suggestion. He entered into the discussion which at this time, were no more than general gripe sessions. No specific grievances were aired and no indications of possible trouble were noted. The CO decided that, in order to prevent these meetings from becoming covert, no action would be taken to prevent further meetings but surveillance of all future meetings would be closely maintained. Between the 20th and 30th of October, while the ship conducted air wing training at sea, a series of meetings were held in the "sidewalk cafe." During these meetings the blacks organized, elected representatives and assigned specific functions to members of their group. One of these functions, as so-called "legal counsel," entailed an examination of the ship's records of Non-Judicial Punishment (NJP), also known as Captain's Mast, to determine where racial discrimination had occurred.

On November 1st, the CO directed that the XO personally attend that day's meeting. There the formalization of grievances occurred but, still, no specific complaints were aired which could have been resolved by command action. While dispersing from this meeting, an unidentified group of blacks assaulted a white messcook, fracturing his jaw.

The next day the CO identified approximately 15 sailors as "agitators" and directed the XO to examine their personnel records to determine if any were eligible for command-initiated administrative discharge. Six apparently qualified, although further review later eliminated one of them. The personnel concerned were notified of the pending action.

At the same time it was general knowledge that the ship's company would have to be reduced by 250 men in order to accommodate the air wing personnel who would embark prior to the ship's forthcoming combat deployment. Rumors circulated throughout the ship that all 250 would be administratively discharged with less than honorable discharges and all 250 men would be black. Both rumors were false.

At about 9 a.m. the next morning, November 3rd, the XO met with two representatives of the group and was asked to announce over the PA system that he would stop the administrative discharge proceedings. The XO agreed in part to that request, circulated a "flyer" announcing the halt to administrative discharges and announced over the PA system an open meeting of the Human Resources Council (HRC) for 9 p.m. that evening

The "sit-in"

At about noon the CO and XO were notified of a "sit-in" on the forward messdecks. The CO directed officers and senior petty officers to order their men to return to work since air evolutions had commenced. The "sit-in" broke up but the participants regrouped on the after messdecks.

At about 2:30 p.m. the Marine Reaction Force was called to the after messdeck to quell a "riot." Arriving simultaneously with the Marines, and determining that the Marine force was unnecessary, the ship's Chief Master-at-Arms ordered the Marines back to their compartment. The HCR members then met with the group to determine the nature of complaints. The situation remained relatively stable from then on until the official HCR meeting commenced about 9 p.m. The size of the group fluctuated between 50 and 150, with all but a few participants being black. From 9 p.m. until midnight the HCR officers and men and the personnel officer attempted to respond to the group's complaints. Even at this time, however, the grievances were too broad to be answered. No specific cases of racial discrimination, which was the group's general area of complaint, were definitely identified. The tenor of the meeting rapidly changed so that by midnight the HCR members were being subjected to considerable verbal abuse. The HCR withdrew, leaving the after messdeck to a crowd of approximately 100 sailors.

The group continued to meet, claiming that the HCR meeting had been adjourned, and soon formulated a demand for the CO's presence. This demand became the focal point from this time on. Two representatives met with the CO on the bridge and relayed the group's demand for his presence, warning that if he did not appear, members of the group might "tear up his ship." The CO refused to accede to this demand on the basis that the group was disorderly and that the conduct of flight operations required his presence on the bridge. The CO then directed that the ship be "awakened" and that senior personnel patrol the berthing compartments and passageways to preclude incidents such as had occurred aboard Kitty Hawk. He also directed that season officers and petty officers encompass the group on the after messdecks. Air operations continued until 12:30 a.m. on November 4th.

The beach detachment

What do you take away from all that, Hallmark?

Never having served on board a ship I have no idea whether what happened in that account is a rare occurrence or a more common example of what happens when the races are integrated in the military. That occurred 40 years ago and I also have no idea if the same thing can and does happen today.

If it's an indication of the state of racial integration in the military in 2013, then it makes me have a very pessimistic view of different kinds of human beings living together. Whether it be blacks and whites, or heterosexuals and homosexuals, people of different religions or whatever else.
Maybe groups of human beings needs to be separated from other groups. Maybe it's just not possible for human beings of different groups to live together in harmony. Who knows.

IMHO Bad policies in both the Army and the Navy caused a very volatile situation. I can only speak for the Army. I am not saying who was right or wrong. There were valid complaints on both sides. It is difficult to talk about with a lot of explaining that I don't feel like doing, Much has been written on the subject. The draft/integration/war was not a real good mix. The leaders that Seaoats thinks are so great, failed in their duties. It was a sad time for the United State Military.
ps I am speaking of 40 years ago. Has the problems been solved? I dont know. Once I got out, I never looked back. But I fear that all this social engineering of women/Gays/bull riders/fishermen might not be with out some major issues. But I am old school. FTA

I'll only offer this one observation because it's really the only one I have personal involvement with.

My next door neighbors are an elderly black couple. I can tell you with no exaggeration that they are THE best neighbors I have ever had. And I feel pretty certain that they would say the same about me.
We are great friends and we have each others' backs in every way.
If a race riot broke out in our neighborhood those neighbors and I would be side by side fighting both blacks and whites.

Other than that there is nothing else I can contribute to this because it's the only thing I have personal knowledge of.

Damn!!!. That is not the issue. The issue is what happens when people are put under duress for long periods of time with out a equitable system that works for every one. Hell!! White guys might go nuts next time if they perceive they are getting a bad deal. Everybody is not the same. Sorry That is just the way it is. Is the Military up to the task? Soon we shall see. The great experiment has begun. Lets hope it works better than LBJs Great society.

I have quite a few but one you have probably never heard of is the USS O'bannon....she went out on a mission. There was a problem between some of the crew and a couple of black sailors. Those two sailors disappeared over the side in the night and were never seen again. The next morning at muster the men were found missing. The captain ran an extensive search.

I watched the ship pull into Ford Island in Pearl. The ship was locked up tight and only upper level investigators were allowed past the marine guards that lined the pier. Seems before they pulled in the captain went to his quarters and ate a round from his 1911 45 caliber . Never did find out the resolution of the incident.....