Evil Surrounds Us

I just cannot shake the sadness I feel after recent events, including the school massacre. Here is another evil act by an evil person.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/07/24/man-accused-setting-pregnant-girlfriend-fire

Evil does surround us, it's true. It is everywhere.
But you know what?
Good is all around you too. There is far more good in this world than bad, we just don't hear about it enough. Quiet heroes are right in front of you, doing stuff that no one sees or hears about. But they're there.

Look for it. You will find it.
Tonight, maybe write down 10 things you are truly thankful for. Focusing on these things will help pull you out of it.

jose balu wrote:Evil does surround us, it's true. It is everywhere.
But you know what?
Good is all around you too. There is far more good in this world than bad, we just don't hear about it enough. Quiet heroes are right in front of you, doing stuff that no one sees or hears about. But they're there.

Look for it. You will find it.
Tonight, maybe write down 10 things you are truly thankful for. Focusing on these things will help pull you out of it.

I know you're right, jose. There were many heroes at the school last Friday. God Bless them. It's interesting that you say to write down 10 things I'm thankful for. I've been thinking about that a lot over the last couple of days. I have much to be thankful for. My kids are well. But then I think how that could be shattered in a moment--like with those precious children and their teachers/staff- last Friday. And it's scary. So how do you relax and enjoy the moment when everything is right in your world when you know it could all change in a heartbeat? It's not just this shooting that's gotten me, it's a couple of other deaths of friends that have occurred over the last few weeks that has me feeling down as well (natural causes, not violence or anything of that sort). People who were not old, people who should have had full lives ahead of them and who left this Earth way too soon.

I'm sorry, it's just the combination of events, personal and afar, that have me sad. But you're right. We have to be thankful for what we have. And live life to the fullest, without worrying so much about when it might all end.

Good is all around you too.

AMEN!

The issue is: will good people sit back and do nothing and let evil win, or will we get out of our collective comfort zone and work to allow good to prevail.

Evil seems to have taken our hearts and souls this week, but good people will work to protect children in the future......and just as important is to identify and help those souls who are so deeply troubled that something like this could even be imagined....let alone planned.

good post Seaoat.

2seaoat wrote:Good is all around you too.

AMEN!

The issue is: will good people sit back and do nothing and let evil win, or will we get out of our collective comfort zone and work to allow good to prevail.

Evil seems to have taken our hearts and souls this week, but good people will work to protect children in the future......and just as important is to identify and help those souls who are so deeply troubled that something like this could even be imagined....let alone planned.

deeply troubled or evil, what is evil? or is it a disease?

was this predictable given the set of behavior? and if it was
predictable what about that is evil? And what about that is untreated
bio chemical neurological disorder? and is that disorder evil?

is there such a thing as free will? questions the deeper i study
the more i question the traditional way of thinking

interesting just one of 30 neuro biologists none that right zero believe in the traditional notion of "free will"

http://edge.org/3rd_culture/sapolsky09/sapolsky09_index.html

i could post the other 30. if there is no free will then there is no such thing as "evil"

this is new cutting edge stuff for me and i am absolutely fascinated as a post grad in philos sophia. but their arguments are powerful and in fact almost insurmountable.

study and see....

seems to me that this just fortifies the idea that psychotropics can easily overrule learned behavior like a conscious.

surfnrg wrote:

2seaoat wrote:Good is all around you too.

AMEN!

The issue is: will good people sit back and do nothing and let evil win, or will we get out of our collective comfort zone and work to allow good to prevail.

Evil seems to have taken our hearts and souls this week, but good people will work to protect children in the future......and just as important is to identify and help those souls who are so deeply troubled that something like this could even be imagined....let alone planned.

deeply troubled or evil, what is evil? or is it a disease?

was this predictable given the set of behavior? and if it was
predictable what about that is evil? And what about that is untreated
bio chemical neurological disorder? and is that disorder evil?

is there such a thing as free will? questions the deeper i study
the more i question the traditional way of thinking

I wasn't evil in my younger days, but I wasn't nice either. I believe in free will. For the last thirty-odd years, I have tried to make up for my past actions. (Thank God there weren't as many cops around the West Side when I was a hell-raiser)

BTW, love your avatar, Surf. Where was that taken?

Eric

surfnrg wrote:

2seaoat wrote:Good is all around you too.

AMEN!

The issue is: will good people sit back and do nothing and let evil win, or will we get out of our collective comfort zone and work to allow good to prevail.

Evil seems to have taken our hearts and souls this week, but good people will work to protect children in the future......and just as important is to identify and help those souls who are so deeply troubled that something like this could even be imagined....let alone planned.

deeply troubled or evil, what is evil? or is it a disease?

was this predictable given the set of behavior? and if it was
predictable what about that is evil? And what about that is untreated
bio chemical neurological disorder? and is that disorder evil?

is there such a thing as free will? questions the deeper i study
the more i question the traditional way of thinking

I don't think it was predictable. I think it was a failure to acknowledge how sick this kid was. If he was burning himself he should have been in a hospital. Who was his Dr? Nothing's been said about what treatment he was getting or what was going on there. They have posted a picture of his father. I feel for him.

e·vil
[ee-vuh l] Show IPA
adjective
1.
morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked: evil deeds; an evil life.
2.
harmful; injurious: evil laws.
3.
characterized or accompanied by misfortune or suffering; unfortunate; disastrous: to be fallen on evil days.
4.
due to actual or imputed bad conduct or character: an evil reputation.
5.
marked by anger, irritability, irascibility, etc.:

I think in the context of recent events definition 2 fits my personal definition in that harm and injury was the end result.....and I find it interesting that "evil laws" is given for an example how harm or injury is delivered......and I would argue that where laws omit, and it foreseeable that injury and harm will most certainly result......then is not good the pursuit of the omission......and the lowering of harm and injury. Evil can only survive by omission of good.....it is perhaps more complex, and sometimes a paradox, but to sit in comfort and approve of omissions which result in harm and injury......that may not make the threshold of evil, but it no longer can be called good.

Nekochan wrote:I just cannot shake the sadness I feel after recent events, including the school massacre. Here is another evil act by an evil person.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/07/24/man-accused-setting-pregnant-girlfriend-fire

There has always been evil in the world, both near and far. It seems more prevalent today because we have instant access to events plus we have several 24 hours a day news media that need ratings and "If it bleeds...it leads" is what drives ratings.

Dreamsglore wrote:

surfnrg wrote:

2seaoat wrote:Good is all around you too.

AMEN!

The issue is: will good people sit back and do nothing and let evil win, or will we get out of our collective comfort zone and work to allow good to prevail.

Evil seems to have taken our hearts and souls this week, but good people will work to protect children in the future......and just as important is to identify and help those souls who are so deeply troubled that something like this could even be imagined....let alone planned.

deeply troubled or evil, what is evil? or is it a disease?

was this predictable given the set of behavior? and if it was
predictable what about that is evil? And what about that is untreated
bio chemical neurological disorder? and is that disorder evil?

is there such a thing as free will? questions the deeper i study
the more i question the traditional way of thinking

I don't think it was predictable. I think it was a failure to acknowledge how sick this kid was. If he was burning himself he should have been in a hospital. Who was his Dr? Nothing's been said about what treatment he was getting or what was going on there. They have posted a picture of his father. I feel for him.

He probaly had a crappy hateful counselor like you.

Yomama wrote:

surfnrg wrote:

2seaoat wrote:Good is all around you too.

AMEN!

The issue is: will good people sit back and do nothing and let evil win, or will we get out of our collective comfort zone and work to allow good to prevail.

Evil seems to have taken our hearts and souls this week, but good people will work to protect children in the future......and just as important is to identify and help those souls who are so deeply troubled that something like this could even be imagined....let alone planned.

deeply troubled or evil, what is evil? or is it a disease?

was this predictable given the set of behavior? and if it was
predictable what about that is evil? And what about that is untreated
bio chemical neurological disorder? and is that disorder evil?

is there such a thing as free will? questions the deeper i study
the more i question the traditional way of thinking

I wasn't evil in my younger days, but I wasn't nice either. I believe in free will. For the last thirty-odd years, I have tried to make up for my past actions. (Thank God there weren't as many cops around the West Side when I was a hell-raiser)

BTW, love your avatar, Surf. Where was that taken?

Eric

Eric

The picture is from Playa Avellanas Costa Rica the Rivermouth there. Got off the plane for 18 days of overhead offshores.
I used to believe in free will and was the champion defender. Embracing choice as the underpinnings of responsibility.
However the arguments from molecular biology etc. are powerful and overwhelming. I no longer believe in free choice in most circumstances.
Read and study the science, it is amazing.
Which leads to the overhwleming question "Who Am I?". Yes, chemical reactions which cause synapses and neurons to fire, but is there any more
to us than that?

Interesting comments and ideas.

Did y'all read the news story I posted about? The guy tied up and set his 8 months pregnant girlfriend on fire. Both girlfriend and baby are dead.

Nekochan wrote:Interesting comments and ideas.

Did y'all read the news story I posted about? The guy tied up and set his 8 months pregnant girlfriend on fire. Both girlfriend and baby are dead.

yes

I read it too, Neko.

So sorry you're down right now. There are times I HAVE to turn off the news. Perhaps this is one of those times for you?

Feel better..K?

Hugs

Very true, Storm. My TV is actually off now. Sometimes it's all just too much.
It isn't just the school shootings that's got to me, it's a couple of people that I know who have died recently, much too young. It's what their families are going through, what their kids are going through this Christmas season. We just don't know how much time we have here or how much time our friends and loved ones have. The bad stuff in the world is plastered all over the news. Sometimes we have to search a little more to see the good. I do appreciate all the positive comments on this thread.

I am feeling better today. Thank you, Storm.

Nekochan wrote:Very true, Storm. My TV is actually off now. Sometimes it's all just too much.
It isn't just the school shootings that's got to me, it's a couple of people that I know who have died recently, much too young. It's what their families are going through, what their kids are going through this Christmas season. We just don't know how much time we have here or how much time our friends and loved ones have. The bad stuff in the world is plastered all over the news. Sometimes we have to search a little more to see the good. I do appreciate all the positive comments on this thread.

I am feeling better today. Thank you, Storm.

I agree....glad you are feeling better. We need to count our personal blessing.

surfnrg wrote:Eric

The picture is from Playa Avellanas Costa Rica the Rivermouth there. Got off the plane for 18 days of overhead offshores.
I used to believe in free will and was the champion defender. Embracing choice as the underpinnings of responsibility.
However the arguments from molecular biology etc. are powerful and overwhelming. I no longer believe in free choice in most circumstances.
Read and study the science, it is amazing.
Which leads to the overhwleming question "Who Am I?". Yes, chemical reactions which cause synapses and neurons to fire, but is there any more
to us than that?

I have a B.S. in Biology, and a minor in Chemistry and was a pharmaceutical sales representative (selling among other things, antianxiety/depression meds). I studied Biochemistry along with Organic Chemistry, Genetics, Anatomy, etc., but it was a LONG time ago. I have read and studied a lot of science, but I don't remember anything about our actions being predetermined and us not having free will, based upon normal brain chemistry.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on general terms. Correct me if I am wrong, but I get the opinion that you believe normal folks cannot make a choice... that everything is predetermined, if you will. That is where we disagree (I think). I make choices every day... and sometimes change my mind and make a different choice.

I DO believe, however, that people with certain disorders (Tourettes, manic-depression, schizophrenia come to mind) are more likely to "act out" based upon their brain chemistry. For instance, someone with schizophrenia may kill someone in an act of self-preservation, while their condition has them convinced that other person was trying to kill them.

I believe in Providence, free will, and chemistry......and I am very comfortable that they can coexist.

Eric et. al:

If you go to the other thread where I posted a lecture by Dr. Robert Sapolsky
and listen to it you will find that all the neurological disorders you listed are
just a little further one way or the other on the same time line from normal human behavior. In other words WE are all on the same continuum. If you could give us an injection of say "A" hormone we would act in exactly the same way as a paranoid schizophrenic. And indeed it might take less to get me there than say Seaoat because "A" hormone exists in all of us.

The fact that that "A" hormone was formed as an infant in the schizophrenic in reaction to a severe bout with rheumatic fever and was over produced or a brain barrier broke down through a one in 15,000 chance was not his 'CHOICE' no more than it was your choice that your body reacted normally when you had the same disease. So schizophrenia is not a choice no more a choice than Seaoat wound up with a normal amount of it.

What I studied and matriculated with a thesis in epistemology on Jean Piaget. The works of all those great philosophers et. al. has not changed but the understanding brought to the table by molecular biologists and neuro biologists has turned the whole thing upside down.

And while the example above which illustrates why free will does not exist the disease I illustrated the new biology of the mind would posit that same firing of neurons over exactly the same synapses is ultimately controlled by chemical reactions. And these chemical reactions can be measured and are in direct response to any given stimuli or challenge. Ergo free will is an illusion.

http://samsnyder.com/2011/05/12/the-end-of-free-will/

Watch the videos I am posting as they are the most fascinating things I have seen since university. Indeed as an existentialist I can't find an argument to overcome laboratory verifiability and duplication. The are simply,

right.

surfnrg wrote:Eric et. al:

If you go to the other thread where I posted a lecture by Dr. Robert Sapolsky
and listen to it you will find that all the neurological disorders you listed are
just a little further one way or the other on the same time line from normal human behavior. In other words WE are all on the same continuum. If you could give us an injection of say "A" hormone we would act in exactly the same way as a paranoid schizophrenic. And indeed it might take less to get me there than say Seaoat because "A" hormone exists in all of us.

The fact that that "A" hormone was formed as an infant in the schizophrenic in reaction to a severe bout with rheumatic fever and was over produced or a brain barrier broke down through a one in 15,000 chance was not his 'CHOICE' no more than it was your choice that your body reacted normally when you had the same disease. So schizophrenia is not a choice no more a choice than Seaoat wound up with a normal amount of it.

What I studied and matriculated with a thesis in epistemology on Jean Piaget. The works of all those great philosophers et. al. has not changed but the understanding brought to the table by molecular biologists and neuro biologists has turned the whole thing upside down.

And while the example above which illustrates why free will does not exist the disease I illustrated the new biology of the mind would posit that same firing of neurons over exactly the same synapses is ultimately controlled by chemical reactions. And these chemical reactions can be measured and are in direct response to any given stimuli or challenge. Ergo free will is an illusion.

http://samsnyder.com/2011/05/12/the-end-of-free-will/

Watch the videos I am posting as they are the most fascinating things I have seen since university. Indeed as an existentialist I can't find an argument to overcome laboratory verifiability and duplication. The are simply,

right.

I see where you are going with this Surf, and agree that conditions can be aggravated by chemical stimuli. I agree that I could be driven crazy by a drug... and do crazy things... things I wouldn't ordinarily do.

There is no normal... everybody is "off" a little bit, but the average Joe makes his own decisions... ergo, free will.

Desperate folks rob convenience stores because they needed the money and decided to rob the store... a conscious decision... not because they had a chemical imbalance and like Flip Wilson used to say "The devil made me do it". They had a choice and made the wrong one.

Yomama wrote:

surfnrg wrote:Eric et. al:

If you go to the other thread where I posted a lecture by Dr. Robert Sapolsky
and listen to it you will find that all the neurological disorders you listed are
just a little further one way or the other on the same time line from normal human behavior. In other words WE are all on the same continuum. If you could give us an injection of say "A" hormone we would act in exactly the same way as a paranoid schizophrenic. And indeed it might take less to get me there than say Seaoat because "A" hormone exists in all of us.

The fact that that "A" hormone was formed as an infant in the schizophrenic in reaction to a severe bout with rheumatic fever and was over produced or a brain barrier broke down through a one in 15,000 chance was not his 'CHOICE' no more than it was your choice that your body reacted normally when you had the same disease. So schizophrenia is not a choice no more a choice than Seaoat wound up with a normal amount of it.

What I studied and matriculated with a thesis in epistemology on Jean Piaget. The works of all those great philosophers et. al. has not changed but the understanding brought to the table by molecular biologists and neuro biologists has turned the whole thing upside down.

And while the example above which illustrates why free will does not exist the disease I illustrated the new biology of the mind would posit that same firing of neurons over exactly the same synapses is ultimately controlled by chemical reactions. And these chemical reactions can be measured and are in direct response to any given stimuli or challenge. Ergo free will is an illusion.

http://samsnyder.com/2011/05/12/the-end-of-free-will/

Watch the videos I am posting as they are the most fascinating things I have seen since university. Indeed as an existentialist I can't find an argument to overcome laboratory verifiability and duplication. The are simply,

right.

I see where you are going with this Surf, and agree that conditions can be aggravated by chemical stimuli. I agree that I could be driven crazy by a drug... and do crazy things... things I wouldn't ordinarily do.

There is no normal... everybody is "off" a little bit, but the average Joe makes his own decisions... ergo, free will.

Desperate folks rob convenience stores because they needed the money and decided to rob the store... a conscious decision... not because they had a chemical imbalance and like Flip Wilson used to say "The devil made me do it". They had a choice and made the wrong one.

I have to agree....life is all about choices.

Einstein did not believe in free will.

Yes life is about choices it is what I have always believed.
But yet....

I like all these scientists Einstein included no longer am so sure.

Just watched a 2 hour lecture on schizophrenia. Interesting to hear
that yes once in awhile one goes postal. BUt by and large "normal"
people (by that he means anyone who is not a true schizophrenic, could
have other neuro disorders) create much more havoc and violence than
schizophrenics ever have.

These people are the ones we usually see walking around downtown talking to themselves or walking in circles etc.

Interesting to note that 1 percent of every population throughout history from the beginnings of recorded history have had this disease East Africa, Aztecs,
Etc all of them.

It's all so fascinating. As well as that almost none of the leading scientists in this field hold to a notion of free will. It is that pervasive.