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Pensacola Discussion Forum » General Discussion » For seaoat: is this the evidence you talk about that we have too many cops?

For seaoat: is this the evidence you talk about that we have too many cops?

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Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Cities from coast-to-coast are facing unprecedented budget deficits that have left government officials with no choice but to strip police forces to a bare minimum. We now regularly hear about new ‘records’ being broken in the resulting crime waves that follow.

Read more at http://investmentwatchblog.com/when-law-and-order-break-down-people-are-afraid-right-now-you-can-see-it-in-their-faces/#7bowbqEM5jvlX6fo.99

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

This is most prevalent where people are deprived of their right to self defense with guns....Keep the cop just give me his gun and I don't need him.

2seaoat



Chicago spends almost half its budget on fire and police.....yet violent crime is rampant. The problem is the drug war......the underground economy which is fed by the same. Decriminalize illegal drugs....tax them...raise revenues, and start laying off about 30% of our current criminal justice system including baliffs, jailers, probation, judges, prosecutors, police, and public defenders.......none of these people contribute to the Gross Domestic Product, and now with the savings give 100% tax credits for new jobs in manufacturing for two years. Crime goes down when people are working. Creating a drug war in the early 1970s has put two generations of folks in jail with multiple felonies.....almost impossible to find employment....and a society which is racing to collapse under the burden of government spending.....

End the war on drugs and reduce the criminal justice system and we will have a path to sanity.

Sal

Sal

TEOTWAWKI wrote:This is most prevalent where people are deprived of their right to self defense with guns....Keep the cop just give me his gun and I don't need him.

That's laughable.

These areas are awash in guns.

The problem is poverty and desperation.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

TEOTWAWKI wrote:This is most prevalent where people are deprived of their right to self defense with guns....Keep the cop just give me his gun and I don't need him.

According to this list, Mississippi has the most gun deaths of any state.
And it's also the 4th most lenient on gun ownership.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/01/11/20-deadliest-gun-states-from-mississippi-to-arizona.html

Don't get me wrong, I'm not giving up my gun regardless of what any law does or doesn't say. I'm my own law when it comes to defending myself
But if that statistic is correct, I have no reason to believe that lenient gun laws offer any solution to the crime problem.

2seaoat



Crime is connected to poverty, not gun ownership. We have sadly created more poverty with the foolish war on drugs. We take precious societal resources and pour them into hiring more police, rather than investing in state of the art capital equipment which can actually produce something. A Judge, a police officer, or a public defender produce nothing.....they do not add to GDP, rather they are an anchor on GDP, yet we declared war on drugs and took societal resources and threw them down the rabbit hole, and we act surprised that we lost 50k factories. It used to be you could walk in any door to the Santa Rosa courthouse without going through an armed camp of security......we live in a world where special interests can build private prisons, and we can fill the same up with non violent offenders, and we think we have accomplished something...The constitution allows private gun ownership and that certainly is neither the problem or the answer as some try to eliminate guns thinking they are the problem, and some want to see the proliferation of the same as the solution, and both are foolish in my estimation.....create jobs and opportunity and you will see crime reduction.....and end the war on drugs.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

2seaoat wrote:Crime is connected to poverty, not gun ownership. We have sadly created more poverty with the foolish war on drugs. We take precious societal resources and pour them into hiring more police, rather than investing in state of the art capital equipment which can actually produce something. A Judge, a police officer, or a public defender produce nothing.....they do not add to GDP, rather they are an anchor on GDP, yet we declared war on drugs and took societal resources and threw them down the rabbit hole, and we act surprised that we lost 50k factories. It used to be you could walk in any door to the Santa Rosa courthouse without going through an armed camp of security......we live in a world where special interests can build private prisons, and we can fill the same up with non violent offenders, and we think we have accomplished something...The constitution allows private gun ownership and that certainly is neither the problem or the answer as some try to eliminate guns thinking they are the problem, and some want to see the proliferation of the same as the solution, and both are foolish in my estimation.....create jobs and opportunity and you will see crime reduction.....and end the war on drugs.


I agree fully with the part in red above. And I also agree that the "war on drugs" is a bunch of crap.
But it's just wishful thinking that you can fire cops and stop the war on drugs and that will be the magic wand to creating jobs and ending the economic crisis and ending unemployment.
If only it was that simple. But it's not.

2seaoat



Actually it is. Policy brings results. If you set policy where 90% of the current scheduled illegal drugs were decriminalized and hefty taxes were collected for the same which made them available for less than the current street values, the revenue generation alone could make a significant difference. This would have to be a staged gradual implementation over a decade. Attrition could take care of the reductions in the criminal justice system, but essential to these reductions would have to be job creation equal or greater than the job reductions in the criminal justice system.

Violent crime when the profit of illegal drugs goes away will not overnight lead to reductions, but prohibition saw a rise and fall of violent crime as the prohibition was eliminated. The idea that good policy does not bring results is simply wrong. It will have an immediate impact on being able to focus available criminal justice resources on violent crime....not a kid with a joint....

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

Apparently Washington State and Colorado think the War on Drugs is a sham, and now they've done something about it...not only legalizing marijuana for personal consumption (as opposed to medicinal use), but dropping the current backlog of cases involving marijuana possession. Other states are sure to follow. When people see the devastation to the lives of their children over simple possession of a plant and realize that the conviction will follow them for the rest of their lives (unless they can buy it off), then...they become motivated to change the laws. Too many lives have been ruined. The police departments and the judicial system and the private prisons, including the investors in them, are indeed profiting off the misery of others. That's not the American way. It also prevents police from doing the much harder job of protecting lives and property. It's just a big money machine that needs to go away.

Edit: I think Seaoat and I are on the same page. I wrote my post before reading his. However, I see it as a redirection of police effectiveness toward reducing violent crime and theft.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Bob wrote:
TEOTWAWKI wrote:This is most prevalent where people are deprived of their right to self defense with guns....Keep the cop just give me his gun and I don't need him.

According to this list, Mississippi has the most gun deaths of any state.
And it's also the 4th most lenient on gun ownership.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/01/11/20-deadliest-gun-states-from-mississippi-to-arizona.html

Don't get me wrong, I'm not giving up my gun regardless of what any law does or doesn't say. I'm my own law when it comes to defending myself
But if that statistic is correct, I have no reason to believe that lenient gun laws offer any solution to the crime problem.

Perhaps there are a lot of folks need killin in Miss...the places like Chicago,NJ and Detroit...well yeah only the criminals will be armed..very comforting to the thugs...

Nothing wrong with shooting as long as the right people get shot...D.H.

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