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What do you think about the union causing Twinkies to go out of business?

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Joanimaroni
gulfbeachbandit
Sal
Hospital Bob
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Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

do you think the workers are better off without jobs? or do you think the union should have listened to reason?

background info: the big union involved (Teamsters) tried to convince the little union that Hostess would have to go out of business and lay everybody off if the little union kept striking. but the little union would hear none of that.

Sal

Sal

This was a story of hedge funds, vulture capitalism, and union bashing.

You know, 21st Century Romney-style American capitalism.

The losers are the workers who are casualties in our race to the bottom.

It's just sad to see the demise of the most phallic of our poisonous snack cakes.

gulfbeachbandit

gulfbeachbandit

If not for unions, these people would still have jobs and be able to buy their children presents for Christmas. Now they have to sign up for ebt cards instead.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Ghandi_is_my_bitch wrote:This was a story of hedge funds, vulture capitalism, and union bashing.

You know, 21st Century Romney-style American capitalism.

The losers are the workers who are casualties in our race to the bottom.

The Teamsters got to look at the company books and said the company wasn't bullshitting and that's why the Teamsters sided up with the management. And the Teamsters tried to convince the smaller union involved to stop striking on account of that. But that union wouldn't budge and that's all she wrote.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

The company had reached a contract agreement with its largest union, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, which this week urged the bakery union to hold a secret ballot on whether to continue striking.

Ken Hall, general secretary-treasurer for the Teamsters, said his union members decided to make concessions after hiring consultants who found the company's financials were in a dire situation.

"We believed there was a pathway for this company to return to profitability," Hall said, noting that the liquidation could've been prevented if the bakery union had agreed some concessions as well.

Although Hall agreed that it was unlikely anyone would buy the entire company, he said "people are going to look for some fire sale prices" for some of the brands. For now, he expects Hostess products will be on shelves for another week or so.

"Frankly it's tragic, particularly at this this time of year with the holidays around the corner," Hall said, noting that his 6,700 members at Hostess were now out of a job.

Kenneth McGregor, a shipper for Hostess in East Windsor, Conn., arrived at the plant Friday morning and said he was told he was laid off immediately.

He blamed the bakery workers union for rejecting a proposed contract.

"They screwed us big time," he said.


http://www.nbc29.com/story/20115981/hostess-to-close-cites-nationwide-worker-strike

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

Bob wrote:
Ghandi_is_my_bitch wrote:This was a story of hedge funds, vulture capitalism, and union bashing.

You know, 21st Century Romney-style American capitalism.

The losers are the workers who are casualties in our race to the bottom.

The Teamsters got to look at the company books and said the company wasn't bullshitting and that's why the Teamsters sided up with the management. And the Teamsters tried to convince the smaller union involved to stop striking on account of that. But that union wouldn't budge and that's all she wrote.

Now what are the workers going to do. So much for the union.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Well I'm sure Rachel Maddow sided up with the union and since she's so intelligent that must mean the union was right, huh salinsky.
But of course Maddow still has a VERY high paying job on television. The workers don't have any job.

Sal

Sal

Bob wrote:Well I'm sure Rachel Maddow sided up with the union and since she's so intelligent that must mean the union was right, huh salinsky.
But of course Maddow still has a VERY high paying job on television. The workers don't have any job.

I had no idea Rachel Maddow was involved in this, Bob.

Thanks for the heads up on that one.

I wonder how much money the private equity firms involved lost? [sarc]

Not to worry though, the branding rights will be sold to some mega-bakery in China, and we will soon see Twinkees and Ho-Hos on our shelves again ...

... this time with more Listeria and Formaldehyde!!

2seaoat



It is incredible to me how people can be so easily manipulated. I happen to have seen a bit more of the whole story. I worked with Borg Warner Corporation in the mid Seventies and lived in the Chicago suburbs. I would go by a Rainbow Bread manufacturing plant which was state of the Art and was built one mile from a modern Borg Warner Plant where I was employed. I would often stop after work at their seconds shop and pick up great bread at really low prices. The plant employed area workers who made a living wage and supported their families. The Borg Warner plant was purchased by a company called Emerson Electric, which in the early 80s was known for sacking companies, by breaking unions, and moving manufacturing to rural America. At about the same time Rainbow closed their plant and shipped jobs to Texas, the Emerson Electric management took a third of the manufacturing from the Illinois location to the State of KY. For the next 20 years they moved machines first to Mexico, moving half the capital equipment off the factory floor to Mexico, and then in July 2010 they closed their doors and shipped the balance of jobs from Illinois to China, and lo and behold they reduced the work force in KY and America lost 1000 American jobs and some of the best bearings manufactured in the world.

Sadly, with my treatment, I pass by the both these manufacturing facilities. The bread facility now has an Italian bread special brand which I think is called gondolla, but the Bearing plant which employed a 1000 people has been demolished to make room for an outlet mall selling foreign goods.

Utilization and improved productivity is what has allowed America to have such abundance. However, somewhere in the early 80s the vultures determined that they could consolidate wealth by bringing American wages down to third world status and exporting our jobs. In the absence of a tax policy which rewarded job creation, we allowed the finacialization of America where job destruction was rewarded, and capital had a higher priority over labor. The characterization of this being a union problem is obscene. As management I crossed picket lines at that UAW Bearing plant and have very strong beliefs that unions have a place in our society, and at the bargaining table the numbers can be cranked out. This company was in Bankruptcy not because of unions, but because of a process of capital extraction from America and a policy of benign neglect by our Congress to address the same. We fought a revolution over financial exploitation, yet intelligent people post on this forum that what is happening to this company is the problem of the Union......it is not. concessions could be made and Americans could retain their jobs if only congress would get our priorities right and tax financial manipulation which takes our jobs, and rewards job creation. We have become a huddled mass with no value in our labor, and indentured servants to capital which by manipulation and clever legislation has left us impotent to understand our condition, or understand the problem.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

2seaoat wrote:It is incredible to me how people can be so easily manipulated. I happen to have seen a bit more of the whole story. I worked with Borg Warner Corporation in the mid Seventies and lived in the Chicago suburbs. I would go by a Rainbow Bread manufacturing plant which was state of the Art and was built one mile from a modern Borg Warner Plant where I was employed. I would often stop after work at their seconds shop and pick up great bread at really low prices. The plant employed area workers who made a living wage and supported their families. The Borg Warner plant was purchased by a company called Emerson Electric, which in the early 80s was known for sacking companies, by breaking unions, and moving manufacturing to rural America. At about the same time Rainbow closed their plant and shipped jobs to Texas, the Emerson Electric management took a third of the manufacturing from the Illinois location to the State of KY. For the next 20 years they moved machines first to Mexico, moving half the capital equipment off the factory floor to Mexico, and then in July 2010 they closed their doors and shipped the balance of jobs from Illinois to China, and lo and behold they reduced the work force in KY and America lost 1000 American jobs and some of the best bearings manufactured in the world.

Sadly, with my treatment, I pass by the both these manufacturing facilities. The bread facility now has an Italian bread special brand which I think is called gondolla, but the Bearing plant which employed a 1000 people has been demolished to make room for an outlet mall selling foreign goods.

Utilization and improved productivity is what has allowed America to have such abundance. However, somewhere in the early 80s the vultures determined that they could consolidate wealth by bringing American wages down to third world status and exporting our jobs. In the absence of a tax policy which rewarded job creation, we allowed the finacialization of America where job destruction was rewarded, and capital had a higher priority over labor. The characterization of this being a union problem is obscene. As management I crossed picket lines at that UAW Bearing plant and have very strong beliefs that unions have a place in our society, and at the bargaining table the numbers can be cranked out. This company was in Bankruptcy not because of unions, but because of a process of capital extraction from America and a policy of benign neglect by our Congress to address the same. We fought a revolution over financial exploitation, yet intelligent people post on this forum that what is happening to this company is the problem of the Union......it is not. concessions could be made and Americans could retain their jobs if only congress would get our priorities right and tax financial manipulation which takes our jobs, and rewards job creation. We have become a huddled mass with no value in our labor, and indentured servants to capital which by manipulation and clever legislation has left us impotent to understand our condition, or understand the problem.
This time it's not just management saying it. It's also the Teamsters Union.
How do you explain that?

VectorMan

VectorMan

Union members shouldn't be eligible for unemployment or food stamps. Maybe a couple of cases of the remaining Twinkies.

Sal

Sal

2seaoat wrote:This company was in Bankruptcy not because of unions, but because of a process of capital extraction from America and a policy of benign neglect by our Congress to address the same. We fought a revolution over financial exploitation, yet intelligent people post on this forum that what is happening to this company is the problem of the Union......it is not. concessions could be made and Americans could retain their jobs if only congress would get our priorities right and tax financial manipulation which takes our jobs, and rewards job creation. We have become a huddled mass with no value in our labor, and indentured servants to capital which by manipulation and clever legislation has left us impotent to understand our condition, or understand the problem.

Every single word of this is spot on.

Hostess was leveraged to its eyeballs, and its management was actively looting the company.

Earlier this year as the company was preparing to claim bankruptcy, the CEO was rewarded with a 300% raise to over $2.5 million.

Other top execs more than doubled their compensation.

The Teamsters went along with this thinking they could buy the workers a little more time.

But having already conceded 30% of their wages and pensions, the BCTWGM concluded that more concessions would only be buying more time for the executives to loot the company.

2seaoat



This time it's not just management saying it. It's also the Teamsters Union.
How do you explain that?

The UAW is fully aware of the process which has brought their workers nationwide to this abyss.....it is a cookie cutter approach used since the early 80s and I have been part of that process in the early 80s. It is not the Union which created this problem, but they are certainly not without fault when they argue work rules which hurt productivity. It is America which has been brainwashed that labor is secondary to capital, and that Unions are evil and are responsible for jobs leaving America. This is utter nonsense because the Germans have shown us when labor is valued, they can remain productive with $35 per hour average wages in manufacturing compared to Americans getting $25 per hour, but the difference is the value of labor and the people of Germany have greater worth than capital which has not nationality, no patriotism, and no concern for the people of a nation. Government policy and particular tax policy does matter. This entire thread is so obscene in its inability to even understand the problem that propoganda 101 has spewed by the corporate media which has people believing that Americans making a living wage is the problem in America, and that any attempt to put balanced approaches to capital acquisition and transfer is socialism, rather than the public commons being defined which puts value on Americans.......sorry this is completely unnecessary economic dislocation, not driven by a comparative advantage, rather driven by corrupt tax policies and a congress owned by an Oligarchy which has otherwise intelligent people spewing nonsense. If I seem pissed....well I knew some of those 1000 people who were good Americans and whose ingenuity made incredible improvements in building the best damn bearing in the world....and I really liked my baloney sandwich on fresh wonder bread....now all that is left is baloney.

Sal

Sal

Something has gone seriously wrong with the moral compass of a nation when in a dispute between venture capitalists actively looting a company and union bakery workers demanding a living wage and a dignified retirement, middle America sides with the plutocrats.

The brainwashing is complete.

2seaoat



The brainwashing is complete.

And very intelligent people on these forums have swallowed it hook line and sinker. I have actively in my career fought with Unions. I have seen some incredibly stupid demands and lack of concern on productivity issues, but since the 1980s the pendulum has swung so far the other way.....it has fallen off its pivot....and cannot get back up.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Ghandi_is_my_bitch wrote:


Earlier this year as the company was preparing to claim bankruptcy, the CEO was rewarded with a 300% raise to over $2.5 million.

Other top execs more than doubled their compensation.

Can you provide a source for that? If I can see that from a credible source then I'll switch sides on this.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

okay I found it.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hostess+ceo+300%25+salary+increase&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

I take back everything I said. I hope those greedy bastards burn in hell.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

The people who get welfare are not just the poor baby mommas.
These greedy selfish goddamn corporate types often give themselves enough welfare to equal what a thousand of those baby mommas get.
There is NOTHING more nauseating to me than when I learn about more and more of that.
Especially when they give themselves those fortunes in welfare when their companies are going down the shitter.



Last edited by Bob on 11/16/2012, 7:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

2seaoat



Bob......I like the way you take a stand, but seriously the time for compromise and reasonableness is gone....we need discussions about truth and the American commons. I do not give a rat's tail what my friends think about me as I have been cut off from email groups as I a life long republican have finally said enough. It is time to take a stand for the truth, America, and our fellow Americans.....and damn the torpedoes.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Ever since we learned how those monsters on Wall Street were bleeding their corporations dry when they were the ones who were running those corporations into the ground by pure out gambling, I have no stomach for any of that any more. They were gambling with other people's money and they didn't even have to suffer the loss when it blew up on them. All of us out here had to bail out the whole goddamn stinking mess.

Screw the hannitys and the markles who defend it.
That aint free enterprise and it aint capitalism. It's lowlife scum.

2seaoat



I think Mr. Markle is smart enough to know like me....we have been wrong. I have openly admitted I have been wrong. Now I wish I had more time to make a difference because in my self delusion and greed, I think I contributed to the problems my grandchildren will face.....but I am speaking out to everyone I know.....and in fact.....I am not lying....I have been cut off from friend's email lists because they only want people around them who share their belief system and now I have become a bad person because I want the truth.....not allegiance to lies and manipulation. I feel like my soul has been released from a prison......the truth does matter and having been wrong is not the end of the world.

Markle

Markle

Ghandi_is_my_bitch wrote:
2seaoat wrote:This company was in Bankruptcy not because of unions, but because of a process of capital extraction from America and a policy of benign neglect by our Congress to address the same. We fought a revolution over financial exploitation, yet intelligent people post on this forum that what is happening to this company is the problem of the Union......it is not. concessions could be made and Americans could retain their jobs if only congress would get our priorities right and tax financial manipulation which takes our jobs, and rewards job creation. We have become a huddled mass with no value in our labor, and indentured servants to capital which by manipulation and clever legislation has left us impotent to understand our condition, or understand the problem.

Every single word of this is spot on.

Hostess was leveraged to its eyeballs, and its management was actively looting the company.

Earlier this year as the company was preparing to claim bankruptcy, the CEO was rewarded with a 300% raise to over $2.5 million.

Other top execs more than doubled their compensation.

The Teamsters went along with this thinking they could buy the workers a little more time.

But having already conceded 30% of their wages and pensions, the BCTWGM concluded that more concessions would only be buying more time for the executives to loot the company.

Please show us your reliable source and link to that information.

As you may recall, as Paul Harvey said in the past, there could be more in "THE REST OF THE STORY".

Guest


Guest

Bob wrote:okay I found it.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hostess+ceo+300%25+salary+increase&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

I take back everything I said. I hope those greedy bastards burn in hell.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

OK Bob.

Why don't you go back and delete your false accusations....? Or are you so in love w/ your own words that would be asking a little much....Smile

Markle

Markle

Bob wrote:Ever since we learned how those monsters on Wall Street were bleeding their corporations dry when they were the ones who were running those corporations into the ground by pure out gambling, I have no stomach for any of that any more. They were gambling with other people's money and they didn't even have to suffer the loss when it blew up on them. All of us out here had to bail out the whole goddamn stinking mess.

Screw the hannitys and the markles who defend it.
That aint free enterprise and it aint capitalism. It's lowlife scum.

Who are "those monsters" and what corporations are they bleeding dry?

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Markle wrote:

Please show us your reliable source and link to that information.


Is The Dow Jones Daily Bankruptcy Review good enough for you?

http://www.dowjones.com/bankruptcynews/product-daily-bankruptcy-review.asp

If it is then read this...

http://www.teamsters26.org/Flyers%20to%20Add/HOSTESS%20MANIPULATED%20PAY.pdf

Sponsored content



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