In what universe does Trump have the right to deploy troops against US citizens?

Trump’s threat of force

From the NYT (my inbox):

President Trump has been preoccupied with big-city crime for more than 30 years.

In 1989, he took out ads in New York newspapers asking, “What has happened to our City over the past ten years?” (The ads implied he favored the death penalty for five Black and Latino teenagers who turned out to be wrongly accused of a rape.)

In his 2016 presidential campaign, he made false claims about how dangerous Oakland, Philadelphia and other cities were.

And now he seems to have decided that sending — or threatening to send — federal troops to Chicago and other cities is his best hope for turning around a struggling re-election campaign.

Meeting with reporters in the Oval Office yesterday, Trump said that he planned to deploy federal law enforcement agents to Chicago, after already having done so in Portland, Ore., last week. He suggested he might also do so in New York, Philadelphia, Detroit, Baltimore and Oakland. He was vague about the reasons, saying all of the cities were run by “radical left” Democrats.

But the politics of the move are fairly clear. Trump is trailing Joe Biden in the polls, and the move lets him try to shift the nation’s attention away from the coronavirus crisis. Instead, he can run against two of his favorite bogeymen: “the radical left” and big-city crime.

In recent weeks, he has frequently tried to portray Black Lives Matter protesters as out-of-control radicals, even though millions of Americans have participated and the protests have typically been peaceful. He has also made numerous racial appeals to white Americans, such as defending the Confederate battle flag.

Threatening to send troops into cities — most of which have large Black populations — unites the two themes and lets him cast himself as a defender of a fading America. “If Biden got in,” Trump said yesterday, “the whole country would go to hell. And we’re not going to let it go to hell.”

In response, Democrats vowed to pursue legislation or lawsuits to stop him. “We won’t let these authoritarian tactics stand,” Senator Jeff Merkley of Oregon said. “It’s an American crisis.”

More from Portland: As military-clad federal agents swept through the streets this past weekend, they encountered a Navy veteran who had come out to ask whether the officers felt their actions violated the Constitution. They beat him with a baton and doused him with pepper spray.

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Things in Portland were getting better, until Trump made them worse ... deliberately



"In the last two weeks, Donald Trump has repeatedly claimed that there are “many, many people in jail right now—many, many people in jail, all over the country” for attempting to topple Confederate statues. And then there was the sequence from Trump’s appearance on Thursday, in which he promised, “many exciting things … Things that nobody has even contemplated, thought about, thought possible, and things that we’re going to get done … we can honestly say nobody has ever going to see eight weeks like we’re going to have.” He continued, “We’re going to get things done that they’ve wanted to see done for a long, long time.”

Trump did not say who “they” were, but it’s not hard to guess what the things are. Because a day earlier, Trump made it clear that one of the “detailed” and “thoughtful” things he has planned for next week is a federal takeover of multiple cities from “the left-wing group of people” that voters have elected as governors, mayors, and other local leaders. “Next week, we’re going to have, I think, a very exciting news conference because we’re going to be talking about some of these cities that — where the Democrats running them have just lost control of the cities. So that’ll be very interesting.”

Interesting … may not be the right word.

On Saturday morning, it did seem as if the national media had finally noticed that Portland, Oregon exists. Video of Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler demanding the removal of uninvited federal troops from his city’s streets appeared on multiple broadcasts, as did video of those unidentified federal forces kidnapping people off the street and forcing them into unmarked vans.

The New York Times has detailed the last fifty days of protests and unrest in Portland. The article does a good job explaining the many steps between the protests against police violence and systemic racism that grew in the wake of the police murder of George Floyd, and how those protests eventually led to unarmed protesters being shot in the face by federal officers. That story includes a spiral of protest actions, over-response from police, escalation of tensions, and events such as a July 4th exchange with protesters directing fireworks toward the federal courthouse while police returned a hail of rubber-coated bullets, pepper balls and tear gas … for three hours.

But the biggest takeaway of “how did we get here” when it comes to unidentified men in camo dragging people into vans, or blasting them in the face, is simple: Donald Trump wants it that way.

A year ago, it might have seemed possible that Donald Trump could be reelected, based on the complacency of a white America willing to overlook—or reward—three years of racism and corruption in exchange for an extra nickel on their paychecks and the satisfaction of knowing they had a leader who was making white supremacy fashionable again. But with COVID-19 revealing just how impossibly weak Donald Trump’s leadership really is, and coming off a year in which Trump’s impeachment brought a cascade of testimony to his pettiness and insecurity, any concept that Trump might hold onto power in anything resembling a normal election is out the window.

If the American people can go to the polls, or even better, mail in a ballot, to select their choice in November, Trump will lose in all but a handful of the most blood red states. In fact, his slide over the last month has been so precipitous, it’s hard to predict that any state is unthinkable in the fall.

Trump knows this. In response, he’s going with what has always worked for him in the past—racism, the shock doctrine, and fear. Trump intends to sell his followers on a vision of America where Democratic states and cities are not just less important than red states, but a threat to real Americans. A threat that must be dealt with. What’s going on in Portland right now is the prototype for Trump’s America.

As the Times article—and the mayor, and the governor, and everyone on the scene—makes clear, the presence of federal forces in Portland has greatly escalated the violence and tension in the city. It’s only since these forces appeared on the scene that “it’s gotten really brutal.” That’s because the federal forces have no respect for the usual tension and back-and-forth that exists between protesters, even the most peaceful protesters, and police. Here’s a scene in downtown Portland from a week ago.

Last Saturday, the crowd was 100 or so. It was very chill—nothing going on beyond the now-normal occupation of the Justice Center. And feds came out grabbing people seemingly at random and beating people with sticks. There was the kid who got shot in the head and his skull was fractured.

The federal forces didn’t just shoot an unarmed student in the head. They shot the relationship between the police and the protesters. They blew away an already tentative sense of cause and effect. They made it clear that there are no rules. Anyone could be hurt at any time for any thing. Or for nothing.

This is not accidental. In both the protests in Washington D. C. and what’s going on in Portland, the forces sent in by Trump, Attorney General William Barr, and acting Director of Homeland Security Chad Wolf are people completely untrained in dealing with either public demonstrations or even normal law enforcement. These are ass-kickers, and they’ve been sent in to kick ass.

They are not there to make things better. They are very, very much there to make things worse.

And they’re being successful. Early on in the sequence of protests in Portland, a man called “Legend” started providing free food to protesters. His efforts got him tear gassed, but the community response ended up allowing him to create an always-open spot where anyone—protester, homeless, or just hungry—could come in for a free plate of food. The community rallied around him, local merchants provided supplies, voluntary contributions covered all the costs. Other services grew up around “Riot Ribs,” including free medical care, and even help in finding jobs and homes for those on the streets. But after the federal forces smashed the unspoken agreement between the police and protesters, the location was stormed, Legend and everyone else involved was driven away or arrested, and all the donated food was confiscated. A fence was put up to make sure no one could come back. The relationship between the police and protesters went way down. The chance of violence … through the roof.

This is exactly the kind of outcome Trump is going for. It does Trump no good to have people sitting around sharing food, helping their community, and planning for the future. He needs there to be violence. So he, and Barr, and Wolf, are creating it. They have no intention on stopping with Portland. The United States is currently undergoing the greatest crisis it has faced in a century. At the same time, it is wrestling with the greatest reconsideration of civil rights in half a century. Trump has no interest in dealing with the former, and nothing but distaste for the latter. He’s creating a crisis on top of crisis on top of a crisis because … racism and fear. In the end, it’s all he ever brought to the game.

Fox News and right wing sources are already selling their audience on a vision of America in which blue states and cities are in “anarchy” and where violence “demands” a federal presence. It fits exactly with their claims that had the gun-waving couple in St. Louis not directed a military weapon at passing protesters, they would have been “murdered” and their house “would be ashes.” They mean to make violence not just understandable, but inevitable.

Trump means to send federal forces to Chicago, and Seattle, and anywhere else he can think of, explicitly to insert the chaos and violence that justifies taking even more federal control. And it would not be too much to believe that action is headed toward something very like a declaration of martial law, or a federalization of police forces.

However, there is one thing that can slow Trump’s action: Visibility. The right wing has been getting a stream of “antifa violence” fed to them 24/7 since the George Floyd protests began. They’re plenty ready for Trump to crack some skulls and shoot some protesters. What happened to John Lewis on that bridge in Selma may have shocked the nation, but Trump supporters are eagerly waiting to see that kind of bloodshed on their screens. Every note of racism and fear has been played to not just make them want it, but feel like they need it.

There has to be more visibility for everyone else. A momentary blip on the news, 50 days into protests and over a week after federal forces blew apart the situation, is far from enough. What’s happening in Portland needs to be elevated not just because it’s frightening, and a huge threat to America, but because when it’s seen up close, the intention is also obvious, crude, and even more than a little ludicrous.

Mayor Wheeler has forcefully renewed his call for the withdrawal of federal forces. Oregon Gov. Kate Brown has made it clear that Trump is “looking for a confrontation” in hopes of turning violence in Portland into votes in Ohio or Michigan. Even the U. S. Attorney for the District of Oregon has called for an investigation into an action that his boss has played a major role in organizing (So don’t be surprised to hear about another U. S. attorney “resigning”).

But the most important thing at the moment may be to elevate the videos and reports from those on the ground. To join in saying that this is unacceptable. And to make it clear to Donald Trump that you see what he is doing..."

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/7/18/1961747/-Things-in-Portland-were-getting-better-until-Trump-made-them-worse-deliberately

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Wall of Moms Face Off Against Trump's Tear Gas



https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/7/19/1962204/-Wall-of-Moms-Face-Off-Against-Trump-s-Tear-Gas?utm_campaign=trending

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The month after Donald Trump’s inauguration, the Yale historian Timothy Snyder published the best-selling book “On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons From the Twentieth Century.” It was part of a small flood of titles meant to help Americans find their bearings as the new president laid siege to liberal democracy.

One of Snyder’s lessons was, “Be wary of paramilitaries.” He wrote, “When the pro-leader paramilitary and the official police and military intermingle, the end has come.” In 2017, the idea of unidentified agents in camouflage snatching leftists off the streets without warrants might have seemed like a febrile Resistance fantasy. Now it’s happening.

According to a lawsuit filed by Oregon’s attorney general, Ellen Rosenblum, on Friday, federal agents “have been using unmarked vehicles to drive around downtown Portland, detain protesters, and place them into the officers’ unmarked vehicles” since at least last Tuesday. The protesters are neither arrested nor told why they’re being held.

There’s no way to know the affiliation of all the agents — they’ve been wearing military fatigues with patches that just say “Police” — but The Times reported that some of them are part of a specialized Border Patrol group “that normally is tasked with investigating drug smuggling organizations.”

The Trump administration has announced that it intends to send a similar force to other cities; on Monday, The Chicago Tribune reported on plans to deploy about 150 federal agents to Chicago. “I don’t need invitations by the state,” Chad Wolf, acting secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, said on Fox News Monday, adding, “We’re going to do that whether they like us there or not.” . . .

It is true that C.B.P. is not an extragovernmental militia, and so might not fit precisely into Snyder’s “On Tyranny” schema. But when I spoke to Snyder on Monday, he suggested the distinction isn’t that significant. “The state is allowed to use force, but the state is allowed to use force according to rules,” he said. These agents, operating outside their normal roles, are by all appearances behaving lawlessly.

Snyder pointed out that the history of autocracy offers several examples of border agents being used against regime enemies.

“This is a classic way that violence happens in authoritarian regimes, whether it’s Franco’s Spain or whether it’s the Russian Empire,” said Snyder. “The people who are getting used to committing violence on the border are then brought in to commit violence against people in the interior.”

On Friday, the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, tweeted about what’s happening in Portland: “Trump and his storm troopers must be stopped.” She didn’t mention what Congress plans to do to stop them, but the House will soon vote on a homeland security appropriations bill. People outraged about the administration’s police-state tactics should demand, at a minimum, that Congress hold up the department’s funding until those tactics are halted.

Through the Trump years, there’s been a debate about whether the president’s authoritarianism is tempered by his incompetence. Those who think concern about fascism is overblown can cite several instances when the administration has been beaten back after overreaching. But all too often the White House has persevered, deforming American life until what once seemed like worst-case scenarios become the status quo.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/20/opinion/portland-protests-trump.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/fm3_24x2.pdf

Trump is working against himself. We can see it happening. Trump's attacking crowds... and the response is MUCH LARGER CROWDS. That's how it works.

It's also funny watching "libertarians" -- who pitched hissies over "Jade Helm" conspiracies that they totally made up -- being okay with unidentified forces just kidnapping people off the streets. I'm not sure anybody should be going away with them, if they don't present credentials. Right-wing militia creeps are constantly posting fantasies on 4chan and 8chan about kidnapping liberals and making sex slaves out of 'em, so who's to say that they're not doing this? If Trump's got mercenaries out there, they need to at least be identified as such. Otherwise people are within their rights to treat these bastards like they would any criminal who tried to snatch them.

How many of them are ILLEGAL aliens and exactly when does peaceful protesting turn into rioting? Is it the first rock or bottle thrown or the first punch thrown, the first fire started, the first or the 100th gunshot?? If they were protesting in your front yard and breaking your car windows would you give them iced tea and ice cream or call the police? Since the mayor and governor are letting them riot, somebody has to defend the taxpaying citizens that aren't damaging the homes, businesses, or govt owned property that the tax payers paid for...

They still call it a "protest"... I guess that's #NewSpeak.

Not normal thinking.

Jake92 wrote:How many of them are ILLEGAL aliens

Probably zero. What a weird, irrelevant thing to bring up. It's got nothing to do with immigration. Are illegal aliens such a boogeyman to you that you're gonna see 'em everywhere? Better go check, there's probably one under your bed.

and exactly when does peaceful protesting turn into rioting?

Usually when white supremacists show up and try to change the tone of a peaceful protest to smear groups like BLM. This is happening again and again.

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/07/white-supremacists-posing-as-blm-protesters-instigated-richmond-riots-police/

https://www.wsls.com/news/virginia/2020/07/27/police-richmond-riots-instigated-by-white-supremacists-disguised-as-black-lives-matter/

I've already documented known Proud Boys who dressed as "antifa" and started breaking things. They want to give the cops any excuse to beat up their enemies for them, and to make these movements look bad.

And you're falling for it.

 Is it the first rock or bottle thrown or the first punch thrown, the first fire started, the first or the 100th gunshot??  If they were protesting in your front yard and breaking your car windows would you give them iced tea and ice cream or call the police?  Since the mayor and governor are letting them riot, somebody has to defend the taxpaying citizens that aren't damaging the homes, businesses, or govt owned property that the tax payers paid for...

If you know anything at all about dealing with protests (read that manual I linked above) you'll see that they're doing the exact wrong thing. If you need proof, all you have to do is look at the news. Because the unlabeled federal troops swept in and stirred things up, now you've got everything from moms, dads, and veterans forming walls to protect the protesters from the cops. None of that would have been necessary without the stupid fucking feds kicking the hornet's nest and provoking the situation.

But that's exactly what Trump wants, because he wants old, feeble voters to be so fucking TERRIFIED of a boogeyman he's creating that they'll overlook his massive failures and run to him to protect them.

Gotta hand it to Trump -- he knows conservatives tend toward cowardice and authority-suckup. From an early age they invent a "god" to protect them from "the devil," then they put blind trust in cops to protect them from the kind of bad guys they see on Walker Texas Ranger, and now they're running to a con-man to protect them from a situation that he's making worse. And, hilariously, he's calling it "Joe Biden's America," even though it's all happening on HIS watch.

Please wise up. This chicken-little shit from you guys is so tiresome. You wanna fix things, then do it the right way. What you're doing now? It's not even close.

Another one that refuses to answer the main question of what would YOU do if the protest was in front of your house and they were breaking your car windows? When do you take action and what action would you take? What if it was your business and they were keeping your customers away out of fear?

Jake92 wrote:Another one that refuses to answer the main question of what would YOU do if the protest was in front of your house and they were breaking your car windows?  When do you take action and what action would you take?  What if it was your business and they were keeping your customers away out of fear?

Then you defend your property as best you can. I'm not sure what you want. You wanna shoot somebody because they broke your car window? Guess what's gonna happen to your ass if you do that. Prison, probably for life. Unless you're in the car and you have legitimate fears for your life, then you don't shoot somebody, unless you wanna go down for murder. Sucks, but you can't just kill people for whatever you wanna kill 'em for.

I'm sure I've told this story before, but I've been in a couple of shooting situations that aren't too far removed from what you're talking about.

In the first one, my cousin was staying at my house while she was going to college. I have a small guest house beside my house and she was living in that. She called me about 4 in the morning, scared out of her mind, saying someone was trying to break in. She had yelled at the guy (later she said "maybe I didn't yell") that she had pepper spray. I don't know if the guy actually knew she was in there or not, but at the time I thought he knew she was in there and was still trying to break in... and if you do that, then I'm gonna kill your ass. So, I grabbed a gun and went out after the guy. I never saw anybody, and he wouldn't come out when I started yelling crazy shit at him to try to goad him out of hiding (in the dark I was willing to give him the first shot just so I'd have a muzzle flash to fire back at -- not the smartest thing I've ever done, but, you wake me up and piss me off, you get what you get). Anyway, after looking around for fifteen, twenty minutes, we called the cops.

And I gotta tell ya, the cops are NO fucking help. They're chickenshits. They came out, they drove around the block a few times, shining lights. Never even got out of their car, never came to talk to us... nothing. All they did was prevent me from looking for the guy anymore myself because I'm not gonna go wandering around the yard with a gun, trying to explain to some scaredy-ass Mississippi cops that I'm the homeowner.

So, that was incident one. If I'd seen that intruder, and he didn't get on his face, I likely would have shot him. And if I shot him and I don't kill him then I'm gonna shoot him again until I do, because you don't wound an intruder -- they'll sue you. Also, if you shoot them outside, you better haul them inside, because if you shoot someone while they had a chance to run away from you, or they weren't armed, you're also going to prison. Even if you don't, you're gonna go through so much trial stuff you're likely gonna go broke getting yourself out of it. Before you get Dirty Harry fantasies about I'd-do-this-and-I'd-do-that, you better look into the nitty-gritty about what actually happens with violence. Shit ain't like The Rifleman where good ol' Lucas guns down five dudes and them him and his son go home for supper and never hear anything else about it.

Okay, incident two: I was in the house, watching TV, and I heard a car pull up. I look out and there's this car full of people, two guys, two girls. One guy gets out of the back and starts up the driveway, and the car drives away. I think this is odd, so I go to the front door, figuring the guy's doing some kind of witnessing or something, who knows. Anyway, he steps into the carport and starts peering into the cars... so, I don't open the front door, I just watch him to see what the hell's going on. He looks like he's trying to steal the cars, looking for keys in them, so, I get a gun and keep watching him. He finally gives up on trying to get into the cars, goes over and grabs a gas can I had under a tree, and starts running for the highway.

Now, I could've gone out there and confronted this guy, but... where's that gonna go? He's either gonna keep running, or he's gonna spook and come at me and then I'm gonna have to kill him. And, as much as it sucks having things stolen from you, I'd rather not kill somebody over a gas can. If not out of a moral concern for human life, then because I don't want the huge hassles of going to court to explain why I gunned down a gas-can thief.

So, I let the guy have the gas can, followed behind for a while to see where he went (his friends picked him up again on the highway), then I got in my car and high-speeded it a while to see if I could catch up to them, not to confront them, but just to get the license plate. No luck there.

Anyway, I called the cops after that one, too. I wasn't figuring I'd get my gas can back or anything, I just wanted to make sure the cops knew that things like this were going on. They sent a cop out and that guy was no fucking help at all. He sat around, barely listened to what I was telling him, didn't take the pictures I'd sketched of the thief and the guy driving the car, didn't even write down the description of the car. Instead he told me some sob story about how he'd used to have a friend in my neighborhood, and how he was surprised he'd been able to be a cop 'cuz he'd found out in his late teens that he'd been born with a hole in his heart and he almost died and etc. etc. Nice enough guy, but shit, what a waste of my time.

A few weeks later I saw something in the paper about a guy getting picked up for burglary somewhere else, and he looked a lot like the guy who was in my driveway. Still don't know if it was him or not, but, there ya go.

Anyway, that's what I'd do. If somebody was trying to wreck my property I'd try to back them off, either by non-lethal force, or a threat of lethal force, whichever the situation seemed to dictate. If they formed a clear and direct threat to myself or my loved ones in the form of bodily injury or death, then I'd kill 'em. If they didn't, I wouldn't... not out of love for them, but because I'm not gonna go to prison over being trigger happy.

And I sure wouldn't go out there and start waving a gun before they were doing anything at all. If you start provoking people, you make a situation worse. Most people who go waving guns around casually haven't ever actually been involved in any real violence and think it's like TV. It ain't.

Most of the people you're afraid of are just people protesting. FOX News likes to portray them all as rioters and spreads lies about them burning churches and all kinds of stuff. They even invented an imaginary version of "Antifa" to terrify people like you. Don't fall for it, unless you like getting hoodwinked. Most protesters aren't going to do anything to you but wave signs and chant. Trump is siccing troops on them because he wants to escalate the violence so his base will be scared enough to let him put more troops in the street.

And you think they're never gonna turn on you, but I got news -- a scared cop is a scared cop. I've been hassled by those a few times, too, and I wasn't breaking any laws at the time. Hell, I had two campus cops put their hands on their gun when I was in college, over nothin'. One was claiming I was "resisting arrest" when he pulled me over for a rolling stop at a stop sign -- I didn't pull over immediately when he was behind me 'cuz at first I didn't think he was after me because I didn't consider my rolling stop an infraction. Then when I did figure out he was after me, I pulled over on a side road because it was almost midnight and I didn't want him having to get out in the main road in the dark. This courtesy pissed him off 'cuz he was scared. The other one put his hand on his gun all because a friend and I (both of us long-haired and scruffy-lookin') parked in a staff parking lot... which was legal after 5 o'clock. This guy was a real Barney Fife. That guy I got a bit belligerent with. If you think all cops are your friends and you just have to "do what they say and you won't have any trouble," then you haven't dealt with cops much. I've been dealing with cops since first grade when I rode to school every day, carpooling in the back of a MHP officer's squad car... watching him pull people over just to laugh, calling his slapjack a "n*****r knocker," and practicing the wonderful gun control of sitting five-year-old me right next to a loaded Thompson and telling me, "Don't touch the gun." So, yeah, I ain't that impressed with cops...

I have never pulled a gun on anybody and wouldn't unless I was in fear of my life or another person's life. I've never had a problem with ANY police officer and look for the good, not anything I think MIGHT be bad about them. I've been stopped a few times for speeding and deserved the tickets they wrote.
IF protesters were protesting in front of my house, I would politely ask them to move and notify the police BEFORE I went out to talk with them, IF I even go outside. I would also take as many pics as I could.. IF they were damaging my property or neighbors property, I would get pics so I could give them to the police.. I think the biggest problem with our judicial system is the lawyers working out plea bargains and judges dropping the charges for guilty lawbreakers OR giving a short lecture and slap on the hand awards.
Many parents teach their kids how to do crimes and avoid the police instead of teaching them to follow the laws.
Yes, I've worked Navy medical and treated a few gunshot victims, but NOT in a war zone. They were domestic disputes or accidents. 2 deaths from domestic disputes.. One accident was a Marine O-6 that broke his leg sky diving. 1 1/2 months later, he was deer hunting on crutches. A crutch slipped and he went down. The gun went up and blew a deer slug thru his ankle when it landed. A few months in the hospital and a few surgeries later and he was back to sky diving and running.

Jake92 wrote:I have never pulled a gun on anybody and wouldn't unless I was in fear of my life or another person's life.

Wise move.

 I've never had a problem with ANY police officer and look for the good, not anything I think MIGHT be bad about them.  I've been stopped a few times for speeding and deserved the tickets they wrote.

I don't look for the bad in them. That just turns out to be what I usually get. Like I said, the guy with the hole in his heart wasn't a bad guy -- he was nice enough and I didn't mind talking to him -- he just wasn't helpful at all. I've had one cop let me off for driving at night in a rain storm with no headlights because he knew I'd just left a brightly lit parking lot and had forgotten to turn them on. He knew it was just a screw-up and so it was cool of him to not ticket me for it. And I've gotten quite a few speeding tickets and haven't begrudged them any of 'em, because I was speeding. So I'm not just "anti-cop." But I also know better than to just trust them carte blanche. Some are good... many are not.


 

IF protesters were protesting in front of my house, I would politely ask them to move and notify the police BEFORE I went out to talk with them, IF I even go outside.   I would also take as many pics as I could..  IF they were damaging my property or neighbors property, I would get pics so I could give them to the police..

That sounds like a wise plan, actually. Other than I wouldn't complain just because they're protesting. Protesting is legal and an important right guaranteed by the Constitution. I'd only politely confront them or take the pictures if they were damaging property. While they're being peaceful, I'd leave them to what they were doing. Hell, I might even join 'em.

 I think the biggest problem with our judicial system is the lawyers working out plea bargains and judges dropping the charges for guilty lawbreakers OR giving a short lecture and slap on the hand awards.  
Many parents teach their kids how to do crimes and avoid the police instead of teaching them to follow the laws.

The big problem with the judicial system is it's unequal. If you're white things go one way for you. If you're black, they often go another. If you're white and RICH you really have almost no problems. And it's not just the judicial system -- it's the law all the way down. I know a lot of people who've been allowed to drive drunk because the cop is friends with their daddy, or their daddy's a rich Republican.

Hell, I think I've told this story here before, too, but I have a cousin who committed armed robbery and got it wiped off his record because his daddy is a millionaire Republican operative and gave Trent Lott a big pay-off to do it. My idiot cousin held up a convenience store (albeit with a watergun, but nobody knew that at the time) and was sent to prison for it. His dad went to Trent Lott, gave him a big chunk of cash, and they not only got him out of prison, they wiped armed robbery off his record completely. Nice to be rich and white, eh? They were doing it to send my cousin in the the army, so they were defrauding the U.S. military when they did it.

Unluckily for them, my idiot cousin also had a drug conviction in Louisiana he didn't want his dad to know about, and thus Trent Lott didn't manage to get that wiped off the record, and the military turned him down anyhow. So he ended up getting a nice cushy job from dad, doing a lot of drugs, and getting several girls pregnant and not taking care of the kids.

I've got other cousins who are in deep with the Pickerings, and that's a whole 'nother batch of crime. They're basically a Dixie Mafia crime family. And don't even get me started on Haley Barbour...

But anyway, yeah, main problem with the judicial system is, if you're white and have enough money... there ain't one.

Yes, I've worked Navy medical and treated a few gunshot victims, but NOT in a war zone.  They were domestic disputes or accidents.  2 deaths from domestic disputes..  One accident was a Marine O-6 that broke his leg sky diving.  1 1/2 months later, he was deer hunting on crutches.  A crutch slipped and he went down.  The gun went up and blew a deer slug thru his ankle when it landed.  A few months in the hospital and a few surgeries later and he was back to sky diving and running.  

Yikes, he's lucky if he even had a foot left at all, getting a deer slug through the ankle. Dude must have some tough bones. I've got another cousin who took a .22 through the knee and he walks okay, but running? Nope.

zsomething wrote:

Jake92 wrote:I have never pulled a gun on anybody and wouldn't unless I was in fear of my life or another person's life.

Wise move.

 I've never had a problem with ANY police officer and look for the good, not anything I think MIGHT be bad about them.  I've been stopped a few times for speeding and deserved the tickets they wrote.

I don't look for the bad in them.  That just turns out to be what I usually get.  Like I said, the guy with the hole in his heart wasn't a bad guy -- he was nice enough and I didn't mind talking to him -- he just wasn't helpful at all.  I've had one cop let me off for driving at night in a rain storm with no headlights because he knew I'd just left a brightly lit parking lot and had forgotten to turn them on.  He knew it was just a screw-up and so it was cool of him to not ticket me for it.   And I've gotten quite a few speeding tickets and haven't begrudged them any of 'em, because I was speeding.  So I'm not just "anti-cop."  But I also know better than to just trust them carte blanche.  Some are good... many are not.


 

IF protesters were protesting in front of my house, I would politely ask them to move and notify the police BEFORE I went out to talk with them, IF I even go outside.   I would also take as many pics as I could..  IF they were damaging my property or neighbors property, I would get pics so I could give them to the police..

That sounds like a wise plan, actually.  Other than I wouldn't complain just because they're protesting.  Protesting is legal and an important right guaranteed by the Constitution.  I'd only politely confront them or take the pictures if they were damaging property.   While they're being peaceful, I'd leave them to what they were doing.  Hell, I might even join 'em.

 I think the biggest problem with our judicial system is the lawyers working out plea bargains and judges dropping the charges for guilty lawbreakers OR giving a short lecture and slap on the hand awards.  
Many parents teach their kids how to do crimes and avoid the police instead of teaching them to follow the laws.

The big problem with the judicial system is it's unequal.  If you're white things go one way for you.  If you're black, they often go another.  If you're white and RICH you really have almost no problems.   And it's not just the judicial system -- it's the law all the way down.   I know a lot of people who've been allowed to drive drunk because the cop is friends with their daddy, or their daddy's a rich Republican.

Hell, I think I've told this story here before, too, but I have a cousin who committed armed robbery and got it wiped off his record because his daddy is a millionaire Republican operative and gave Trent Lott a big pay-off to do it.  My idiot cousin held up a convenience store (albeit with a watergun, but nobody knew that at the time) and was sent to prison for it.   His dad went to Trent Lott, gave him a big chunk of cash, and they not only got him out of prison, they wiped armed robbery off his record completely.   Nice to be rich and white, eh?   They were doing it to send my cousin in the the army, so they were defrauding the U.S. military when they did it.  

Unluckily for them, my idiot cousin also had a drug conviction in Louisiana he didn't want his dad to know about, and thus Trent Lott didn't manage to get that wiped off the record, and the military turned him down anyhow.  So he ended up getting a nice cushy job from dad, doing a lot of drugs, and getting several girls pregnant and not taking care of the kids.

I've got other cousins who are in deep with the Pickerings, and that's a whole 'nother batch of crime.  They're basically a Dixie Mafia crime family.  And don't even get me started on Haley Barbour...

But anyway, yeah, main problem with the judicial system is, if you're white and have enough money... there ain't one.

Yes, I've worked Navy medical and treated a few gunshot victims, but NOT in a war zone.  They were domestic disputes or accidents.  2 deaths from domestic disputes..  One accident was a Marine O-6 that broke his leg sky diving.  1 1/2 months later, he was deer hunting on crutches.  A crutch slipped and he went down.  The gun went up and blew a deer slug thru his ankle when it landed.  A few months in the hospital and a few surgeries later and he was back to sky diving and running.  

Yikes, he's lucky if he even had a foot left at all, getting a deer slug through the ankle. Dude must have some tough bones.  I've got another cousin who took a .22 through the knee and he walks okay, but running?  Nope.

When I lived in Houston, I had waaayyy too much to drink at the office Christmas party. I was a leasing manager for an office complex. "Shakey" the
painter brought me a bottle of Wild Turkey, which we shared. The mistake was going to a bar afterwards and topping off the night with Black Russians. I tried to drive home and got lost. The policeman was soooo nice to me...impounded my car but told me to pick it up the next day, no charge. Drove me home in his cruiser, which was a good 20-mile round trip. Told me not to tell anyone. This is the same group of "village" cops that picked up Sandra Bland. Remember her? I got much better treatment.

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/27/myth-vs-fact-50-nights-violence-chaos-and-anarchy-portland-oregon

Well, I guess that settles it. Donnie The Liar says everything's fine.