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Bob Woodward reveals what a clusterfuck our government has become

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Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob


ABC News
Sept. 05 2012

An explosive mix of dysfunction, miscommunication, and misunderstandings inside and outside the White House led to the collapse of a historic spending and debt deal that President Obama and House Speaker John Boehner were on the verge of reaching last summer, according to revelations in author Bob Woodward's latest book.

The book, "The Price of Politics," on sale Sept. 11, 2012, shows how close the president and the House speaker were to defying Washington odds and establishing a spending framework that included both new revenues and major changes to long-sacred entitlement programs. "The Price of Politics" examines the struggles between Obama and the Congress for the three and a half years, between 2009 and the summer of 2012. It offers exclusive behind the scenes access to what the President and the Republicans did, or rather failed to do.

But at one critical juncture, with an agreement tantalizingly close, Obama pressed Boehner for additional taxes as part of a final deal -- a miscalculation, in retrospect, given how far the House speaker felt he'd already gone.

The president called three times to speak with Boehner about his latest offer, according to Woodward. But the speaker didn't return the president's phone call for most of an agonizing day, in what Woodward calls a "monumental communications lapse" between two of the most powerful men in the country.

When Boehner finally did call back, he jettisoned the entire deal. Obama lost his famous cool, according to Woodward, with a "flash of pure fury" coming from the president; one staffer in the room said Obama gripped the phone so tightly he thought he would break it.

"He was spewing coals," Boehner told Woodward, in what is described as a borderline "presidential tirade."

"He was pissed…. He wasn't going to get a damn dime more out of me. He knew how far out on a limb I was. But he was hot. It was clear to me that coming to an agreement with him was not going to happen, and that I had to go to Plan B."

Accounts of the final proposal that led to the deal's collapse continue to differ sharply. The president says he was merely raising the possibility of putting more revenue into the package, while Boehner maintains that the president needed $400 billion more, despite an earlier agreement of no more than $800 billion in total revenue, derived through tax reform.

Obama and his aides argue that the House speaker backed away from a deal because he couldn't stand the political heat inside his own party – or even, perhaps, get the votes to pass the compromise. They say he took the president's proposal for more revenue as an excuse to pull out of talks altogether.

"I was pretty angry," the president told Woodward about the breakdown in negotiations. "There's no doubt I thought it was profoundly irresponsible, at that stage, not to call me back immediately and let me know what was going on."

The failure of Obama to connect with Boehner was vaguely reminiscent of another phone call late in the evening of Election Day 2010, after it became clear that the Republicans would take control of the House, making Boehner Speaker of the House.

Nobody in the Obama orbit could even find the soon-to-be-speaker's phone number, Woodward reports. A Democratic Party aide finally secured it through a friend so the president could offer congratulations.

While questions persist about whether any grand bargain reached by the principals could have actually passed in the Tea Party-dominated Congress, Woodward issues a harsh judgment on White House and congressional leaders for failing to act boldly at a moment of crisis. Particular blame falls on the president.

"It was increasingly clear that no one was running Washington. That was trouble for everyone, but especially for Obama," Woodward writes.

Obama's relationship with Democrats wasn't always much better. Woodward recounts an episode early in his presidency when then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid were hammering out final details of the stimulus bill.

Obama phoned in to deliver a "high-minded message," he writes. Obama went on so long that Pelosi "reached over and pressed the mute button on her phone," so they could continue to work without the president hearing that they weren't paying attention.

As debt negotiations progressed, Democrats complained of being out of the loop, not knowing where the White House stood on major points. Rep. Chris Van Hollen, D-Md., the ranking Democrat on the House Budget Committee, is described as having a "growing feeling of incredulity" as negotiations meandered.

"The administration didn't seem to have a strategy. It was unbelievable. There didn't seem to be any core principles," Woodward writes in describing Van Hollen's thinking.

Larry Summers, a top economic adviser to Obama who also served as Treasury Secretary under President Clinton, identified a key distinction that he said impacted budget and spending talks.

"Obama doesn't really have the joy of the game. Clinton basically loved negotiating with a bunch of pols, about anything," Summers said. "Whereas, Obama, he really didn't like these guys."
Summers said that Obama's "excessive pragmatism" was a problem. "I don't think anybody has a sense of his deep feelings about things." Summers said. "I don't think anybody has a sense of his deep feelings about people. I don't think people have a sense of his deep feelings around the public philosophy."

Obama and his top aides were at times dismissive of the tea party freshmen in Congress who made the debt limit into a major fight. He told Woodward he had "some sympathy" for Boehner, since "he just can't control the forces in his caucus now."

"You see how crazy these people are. I understand him," the president said.

Boehner was equally harsh in his judgment of the flaws inside the White House.

"The president was trying to get there. But there was nobody steering the ship underneath him," Boehner told Woodward. "They never had their act together. The president, I think, was ill-served by his team. Nobody in charge, no process. I just don't know how the place works. To this day, I can't tell you how the place works. There's no process for making a decision in this White House. There's nobody in charge."

One important moment in the negotiations came when the president scheduled a major address on the nation's long-term debt crisis. A White House staffer thought to invite House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan, R-Wis., along with the other two House Republicans who had served on the Simpson-Bowles debt commission.

The president delivered a blistering address, taking apart the Ryan budget plan as "changing the basic social compact in America." Ryan left the speech "genuinely ripped," Woodward writes, feeling that Obama was engaged in "game-on demagoguery" rather than trying to work with the new Republican majority.

"I can't believe you poisoned the well like that," Ryan told Obama economic adviser Gene Sperling on his way out of the speech.

The president told Woodward that he wasn't aware that Ryan was in the audience, and he called inviting him there "a mistake."

If he had known, Obama told Woodard, "I might have modified some of it so that we would leave more negotiations open, because I do think that they felt like we were trying to embarrass him… We made a mistake."

For all the finger-pointing now, Obama and Boehner appear to have developed a rapport during the negotiations. The Illinois Democrat bonded with the Ohio Republican, starting with a much-publicized "golf summit" and continuing through long, substantive chats on the Truman Balcony and the patio right outside the Oval Office.

Boehner voiced a similar desire to accomplish something big on spending: "I need this job like I need a hole in the head," he told Woodward. Yet top deputies loomed large over the negotiations. Vice President Joe Biden was labeled the "McConnell whisperer" by White House aides for his ability to cut deals with the often implacable Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell. The vice president led a parallel set of bipartisan talks that reached breakthroughs without the president's direct involvement.

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor is depicted as more in touch with the Republican caucus that elected Boehner speaker, particularly with its strong contingent of tea party freshmen who came to Washington pledging to put the brakes on federal spending at any cost.

Cantor, Woodward writes, viewed Boehner as a "runaway horse" who needed reining in, given the realities of his own caucus. The Boehner-Obama talks started without Cantor's knowledge, and Boehner later acknowledged to the president that Cantor was working against the very deal they were trying to reach, according to Woodward.

Intriguingly, Cantor and Biden frequently had "private asides" after larger meetings, according to Woodward. After one of them, Woodward writes that Biden told Cantor: "You know, if I were doing this, I'd do it totally different."

"Well, if I were running the Republican conference, I'd do it totally different," Cantor replied, according to Woodward.

Woodward writes: "They agreed that if they were in charge, they could come to a deal."

With the president taking charge, though, Obama found that he had little history with members of Congress to draw on. His administration's early decision to forego bipartisanship for the sake of speed around the stimulus bill was encapsulated by his then-chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel: "We have the votes. F--- 'em," he's quoted in the book as saying.

The book makes no significant mention of Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney, who chose Ryan to be his running mate more than a year after the main events in the book transpired. The 2012 election is not a major focus of the book, beyond the president's repeated insistence that any debt deal cover spending and borrowing through his reelection year.

Woodward portrays a president who remained a supreme believer in his own powers of persuasion, even as he faltered in efforts to coax congressional leaders in both parties toward compromise. Boehner told Woodward that at one point, when Boehner voiced concern about passing the deal they were working out, the president reached out and touched his forearm.

"John, I've got great confidence in my ability to sway the American people," Boehner quotes the president as having told him.

But after the breakthrough agreement fell apart, Boehner's "Plan B" would ultimately exclude the president from most of the key negotiations. The president was "voted off the island," in Woodward's phrase, even by members of his own party, as congressional leaders patched together an eleventh hour framework to avoid default.

Frustration over the lack of clear White House planning was voiced to Obama's face at one point, with a Democratic congressional staffer taking the extraordinary step of confronting the president in the Oval Office.

With the nation facing the very real possibility of defaulting on its debt for the first time in its history, David Krone, the chief of staff to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, told the president directly that he couldn't simply reject the only option left to Congress.

"It is really disheartening that you, that this White House did not have a Plan B," Krone said, according to Woodward.

Congress reached a short-term deal to slice spending and extend the nation's debt ceiling through the election. But it also set up a mechanism that will lead to a "fiscal cliff" of tax hikes and deep cuts to programs, including defense spending, at the end of this year, absent new congressional action. "It is a world of the status quo, only worse," Woodward concludes.

Guest


Guest

Bob wrote:
ABC News
Sept. 05 2012

An explosive mix of dysfunction, miscommunication, and misunderstandings inside and outside the White House led to the collapse of a historic spending and debt deal that President Obama and House Speaker John Boehner were on the verge of reaching last summer, according to revelations in author Bob Woodward's latest book.

The book, "The Price of Politics," on sale Sept. 11, 2012, shows how close the president and the House speaker were to defying Washington odds and establishing a spending framework that included both new revenues and major changes to long-sacred entitlement programs. "The Price of Politics" examines the struggles between Obama and the Congress for the three and a half years, between 2009 and the summer of 2012. It offers exclusive behind the scenes access to what the President and the Republicans did, or rather failed to do.

But at one critical juncture, with an agreement tantalizingly close, Obama pressed Boehner for additional taxes as part of a final deal -- a miscalculation, in retrospect, given how far the House speaker felt he'd already gone.

The president called three times to speak with Boehner about his latest offer, according to Woodward. But the speaker didn't return the president's phone call for most of an agonizing day, in what Woodward calls a "monumental communications lapse" between two of the most powerful men in the country.

When Boehner finally did call back, he jettisoned the entire deal. Obama lost his famous cool, according to Woodward, with a "flash of pure fury" coming from the president; one staffer in the room said Obama gripped the phone so tightly he thought he would break it.

"He was spewing coals," Boehner told Woodward, in what is described as a borderline "presidential tirade."

"He was pissed…. He wasn't going to get a damn dime more out of me. He knew how far out on a limb I was. But he was hot. It was clear to me that coming to an agreement with him was not going to happen, and that I had to go to Plan B."

Accounts of the final proposal that led to the deal's collapse continue to differ sharply. The president says he was merely raising the possibility of putting more revenue into the package, while Boehner maintains that the president needed $400 billion more, despite an earlier agreement of no more than $800 billion in total revenue, derived through tax reform.

Obama and his aides argue that the House speaker backed away from a deal because he couldn't stand the political heat inside his own party – or even, perhaps, get the votes to pass the compromise. They say he took the president's proposal for more revenue as an excuse to pull out of talks altogether.

"I was pretty angry," the president told Woodward about the breakdown in negotiations. "There's no doubt I thought it was profoundly irresponsible, at that stage, not to call me back immediately and let me know what was going on."

The failure of Obama to connect with Boehner was vaguely reminiscent of another phone call late in the evening of Election Day 2010, after it became clear that the Republicans would take control of the House, making Boehner Speaker of the House.

Nobody in the Obama orbit could even find the soon-to-be-speaker's phone number, Woodward reports. A Democratic Party aide finally secured it through a friend so the president could offer congratulations.

While questions persist about whether any grand bargain reached by the principals could have actually passed in the Tea Party-dominated Congress, Woodward issues a harsh judgment on White House and congressional leaders for failing to act boldly at a moment of crisis. Particular blame falls on the president.

"It was increasingly clear that no one was running Washington. That was trouble for everyone, but especially for Obama," Woodward writes.

Obama's relationship with Democrats wasn't always much better. Woodward recounts an episode early in his presidency when then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid were hammering out final details of the stimulus bill.

Obama phoned in to deliver a "high-minded message," he writes. Obama went on so long that Pelosi "reached over and pressed the mute button on her phone," so they could continue to work without the president hearing that they weren't paying attention.

As debt negotiations progressed, Democrats complained of being out of the loop, not knowing where the White House stood on major points. Rep. Chris Van Hollen, D-Md., the ranking Democrat on the House Budget Committee, is described as having a "growing feeling of incredulity" as negotiations meandered.

"The administration didn't seem to have a strategy. It was unbelievable. There didn't seem to be any core principles," Woodward writes in describing Van Hollen's thinking.

Larry Summers, a top economic adviser to Obama who also served as Treasury Secretary under President Clinton, identified a key distinction that he said impacted budget and spending talks.

"Obama doesn't really have the joy of the game. Clinton basically loved negotiating with a bunch of pols, about anything," Summers said. "Whereas, Obama, he really didn't like these guys."
Summers said that Obama's "excessive pragmatism" was a problem. "I don't think anybody has a sense of his deep feelings about things." Summers said. "I don't think anybody has a sense of his deep feelings about people. I don't think people have a sense of his deep feelings around the public philosophy."

Obama and his top aides were at times dismissive of the tea party freshmen in Congress who made the debt limit into a major fight. He told Woodward he had "some sympathy" for Boehner, since "he just can't control the forces in his caucus now."

"You see how crazy these people are. I understand him," the president said.

Boehner was equally harsh in his judgment of the flaws inside the White House.

"The president was trying to get there. But there was nobody steering the ship underneath him," Boehner told Woodward. "They never had their act together. The president, I think, was ill-served by his team. Nobody in charge, no process. I just don't know how the place works. To this day, I can't tell you how the place works. There's no process for making a decision in this White House. There's nobody in charge."

One important moment in the negotiations came when the president scheduled a major address on the nation's long-term debt crisis. A White House staffer thought to invite House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan, R-Wis., along with the other two House Republicans who had served on the Simpson-Bowles debt commission.

The president delivered a blistering address, taking apart the Ryan budget plan as "changing the basic social compact in America." Ryan left the speech "genuinely ripped," Woodward writes, feeling that Obama was engaged in "game-on demagoguery" rather than trying to work with the new Republican majority.

"I can't believe you poisoned the well like that," Ryan told Obama economic adviser Gene Sperling on his way out of the speech.

The president told Woodward that he wasn't aware that Ryan was in the audience, and he called inviting him there "a mistake."

If he had known, Obama told Woodard, "I might have modified some of it so that we would leave more negotiations open, because I do think that they felt like we were trying to embarrass him… We made a mistake."

For all the finger-pointing now, Obama and Boehner appear to have developed a rapport during the negotiations. The Illinois Democrat bonded with the Ohio Republican, starting with a much-publicized "golf summit" and continuing through long, substantive chats on the Truman Balcony and the patio right outside the Oval Office.

Boehner voiced a similar desire to accomplish something big on spending: "I need this job like I need a hole in the head," he told Woodward. Yet top deputies loomed large over the negotiations. Vice President Joe Biden was labeled the "McConnell whisperer" by White House aides for his ability to cut deals with the often implacable Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell. The vice president led a parallel set of bipartisan talks that reached breakthroughs without the president's direct involvement.

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor is depicted as more in touch with the Republican caucus that elected Boehner speaker, particularly with its strong contingent of tea party freshmen who came to Washington pledging to put the brakes on federal spending at any cost.

Cantor, Woodward writes, viewed Boehner as a "runaway horse" who needed reining in, given the realities of his own caucus. The Boehner-Obama talks started without Cantor's knowledge, and Boehner later acknowledged to the president that Cantor was working against the very deal they were trying to reach, according to Woodward.

Intriguingly, Cantor and Biden frequently had "private asides" after larger meetings, according to Woodward. After one of them, Woodward writes that Biden told Cantor: "You know, if I were doing this, I'd do it totally different."

"Well, if I were running the Republican conference, I'd do it totally different," Cantor replied, according to Woodward.

Woodward writes: "They agreed that if they were in charge, they could come to a deal."

With the president taking charge, though, Obama found that he had little history with members of Congress to draw on. His administration's early decision to forego bipartisanship for the sake of speed around the stimulus bill was encapsulated by his then-chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel: "We have the votes. F--- 'em," he's quoted in the book as saying.

The book makes no significant mention of Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney, who chose Ryan to be his running mate more than a year after the main events in the book transpired. The 2012 election is not a major focus of the book, beyond the president's repeated insistence that any debt deal cover spending and borrowing through his reelection year.

Woodward portrays a president who remained a supreme believer in his own powers of persuasion, even as he faltered in efforts to coax congressional leaders in both parties toward compromise. Boehner told Woodward that at one point, when Boehner voiced concern about passing the deal they were working out, the president reached out and touched his forearm.

"John, I've got great confidence in my ability to sway the American people," Boehner quotes the president as having told him.

But after the breakthrough agreement fell apart, Boehner's "Plan B" would ultimately exclude the president from most of the key negotiations. The president was "voted off the island," in Woodward's phrase, even by members of his own party, as congressional leaders patched together an eleventh hour framework to avoid default.

Frustration over the lack of clear White House planning was voiced to Obama's face at one point, with a Democratic congressional staffer taking the extraordinary step of confronting the president in the Oval Office.

With the nation facing the very real possibility of defaulting on its debt for the first time in its history, David Krone, the chief of staff to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, told the president directly that he couldn't simply reject the only option left to Congress.

"It is really disheartening that you, that this White House did not have a Plan B," Krone said, according to Woodward.

Congress reached a short-term deal to slice spending and extend the nation's debt ceiling through the election. But it also set up a mechanism that will lead to a "fiscal cliff" of tax hikes and deep cuts to programs, including defense spending, at the end of this year, absent new congressional action. "It is a world of the status quo, only worse," Woodward concludes.

obama is a narcissist and doesnt work well with anyone. and he didnt have any plans. Thats what ive been saying all along. Thanks for posting this, I knew it wasnt just my imagination.

2seaoat



President Obama has many failings and I think the author has impeccable journalistic standards which raise concerns about how effective he will be in the next four years after he wins the election. He will win, but how will America face these very important and difficult issues if he thinks he has received a mandate. I am very concerned that he is also going to win the house, and he will quit trying to please everybody, and will make very deep cuts in Defense.....the Chicago way.....he will go to conservative districts and will gut the expenditures in those districts. I have a real and tangible fear that BRAC aside.....our two county area will be on the chopping block of really deep and unfair cuts. It is the Chicago way. I think folks who think the way he has operated the White House the first term is going to be indicative of what he will do in the second term are mistaken. I think he will be far more successful in his legislative goals, and he will hurt some people.....guaranteed that our area is at risk......and the defense cuts will not be fair.....they will be directed.

Guest


Guest

2seaoat wrote:President Obama has many failings and I think the author has impeccable journalistic standards which raise concerns about how effective he will be in the next four years after he wins the election. He will win, but how will America face these very important and difficult issues if he thinks he has received a mandate. I am very concerned that he is also going to win the house, and he will quit trying to please everybody, and will make very deep cuts in Defense.....the Chicago way.....he will go to conservative districts and will gut the expenditures in those districts. I have a real and tangible fear that BRAC aside.....our two county area will be on the chopping block of really deep and unfair cuts. It is the Chicago way. I think folks who think the way he has operated the White House the first term is going to be indicative of what he will do in the second term are mistaken. I think he will be far more successful in his legislative goals, and he will hurt some people.....guaranteed that our area is at risk......and the defense cuts will not be fair.....they will be directed.

This is the closest thing to making any sense youve said in a long time.

Its an absolute fact that he wont need to worry about being re-elected so yes, he is going to do some REAL damage to the country. He hates this country.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan


Bob Woodward is the biggest sellout in journalism. Doesn't anyone wonder how he got the inside scoop on Watergate?

2seaoat



Woodward is a credible journalist. This idea that President Obama walks on water on one extreme, and others on this forum who think he is the devil....both are wrong. The President has done a very good job in the context of our times. He has weakness and policy flaws, which should be objectively reviewed. He has made glaring errors, but this idea that anybody right now could do a better job is fantasy in my opinion. The challenge is going to be with the growing certainty of his election, will he think this is a mandate for some of his flawed policies, and will he be vindictive in his defense cuts........I think payback is going to be a bitch......he has been back stabbed, demeaned, and disrespected, but he has remained cool and calm....his calling card.......but the bullet in Osama's eye is coming.....and the target sadly will be defense....and I believe the panhandle will be hit very hard and it will not be objective criteria. Now, Hillary will have a cakewalk in 2016 because there will be a slow and steady improvement of the economy over the next 4 years.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

2seaoat wrote:Woodward is a credible journalist. This idea that President Obama walks on water on one extreme, and others on this forum who think he is the devil....both are wrong. The President has done a very good job in the context of our times. He has weakness and policy flaws, which should be objectively reviewed. He has made glaring errors, but this idea that anybody right now could do a better job is fantasy in my opinion. The challenge is going to be with the growing certainty of his election, will he think this is a mandate for some of his flawed policies, and will he be vindictive in his defense cuts........I think payback is going to be a bitch......he has been back stabbed, demeaned, and disrespected, but he has remained cool and calm....his calling card.......but the bullet in Osama's eye is coming.....and the target sadly will be defense....and I believe the panhandle will be hit very hard and it will not be objective criteria. Now, Hillary will have a cakewalk in 2016 because there will be a slow and steady improvement of the economy over the next 4 years.

One thing we know for sure, Seaoat. Romney is not the answer. As for Woodward, I stand by what I said. He's milquetoast. I've never seen anyone write so many words without really saying anything. Try reading the book he wrote at the beginning of the war in Afghanistan. And I still suspect that he had the inside track on Watergate because he was supposed to report it. Nixon wasn't following the neocon game plan.

Yes, there will be cutbacks in the military...there have to be...but there are plenty of other places to trim the fat; it doesn't necessarily follow that Pensacola NAS and the other area bases are on the chopping block.

Guest


Guest

oh if you pcolians let that monster ubummer win, I am going to laugh my ass off when he comes at your city with a vengence for sending all those law suits his way on his healthcare bill.

I bet your cities military bases are on the top of his list Laughing

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Floridatexan wrote:
Bob Woodward is the biggest sellout in journalism. Doesn't anyone wonder how he got the inside scoop on Watergate?

He got the inside scoop because he and his colleague smelled a rat and were able to convince The Washington Post to let them write some stories. And as a result of that, Woodward was approached by Mark Felt, the Deputy FBI Director, who was privy to what had gone on and wanted to blow the whistle on it.
It's called journalism. Same thing he's still doing now.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

Bob wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
Bob Woodward is the biggest sellout in journalism. Doesn't anyone wonder how he got the inside scoop on Watergate?

He got the inside scoop because he and his colleague smelled a rat and were able to convince The Washington Post to let them write some stories. And as a result of that, Woodward was approached by Mark Felt, the Deputy FBI Director, who was privy to what had gone on and wanted to blow the whistle on it.
It's called journalism. Same thing he's still doing now.

Read this material, Bob.

http://whowhatwhy.com/2012/05/07/watergate-revelations-the-coup-against-nixon-part-1-of-3/

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

2seaoat wrote:President Obama has many failings and I think the author has impeccable journalistic standards which raise concerns about how effective he will be in the next four years after he wins the election. He will win, but how will America face these very important and difficult issues if he thinks he has received a mandate. I am very concerned that he is also going to win the house, and he will quit trying to please everybody, and will make very deep cuts in Defense.....the Chicago way.....he will go to conservative districts and will gut the expenditures in those districts. I have a real and tangible fear that BRAC aside.....our two county area will be on the chopping block of really deep and unfair cuts. It is the Chicago way. I think folks who think the way he has operated the White House the first term is going to be indicative of what he will do in the second term are mistaken. I think he will be far more successful in his legislative goals, and he will hurt some people.....guaranteed that our area is at risk......and the defense cuts will not be fair.....they will be directed.

Yep. First up will be the consolidation of military helicopter training at Fort Rucker, AL. That threat has existed since before I became an instructor pilot with Helicopter Training Squadron Eight at Whiting Field in early 1981. Then, I had to sign a paper saying I understood I could be transferred to Fort Rucker at any time if I bought a house in Florida, and the military was not responsible for any financial loss to me resulting from such a move.

There flat out is no reason whatsoever not to consolidate and save money. Jeff Miller can whine the canard that the two missions are too different for the Army to train Navy and USMC helicopter pilots, but it is a complete lie. I served with USMC helo pilots from the Vietnam era who did training under the Army because the Navy wasn't turning out pilots fast enough during the late 1960s.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Floridatexan wrote:[

Read this material, Bob.

http://whowhatwhy.com/2012/05/07/watergate-revelations-the-coup-against-nixon-part-1-of-3/

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jan/07/entertainment/et-rutten7

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