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National security adviser Flynn discussed sanctions with Russian ambassador, despite denials, officials say

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Don't try to tell me Seaoat has never played 'what if.'


The Logan Act if ever used to prosecute someone would be challenged as to its constitutionality. First, every corporation which has a lobbyist could be prosecuted for wanting changes in laws as they work with other nations. The Logan Act is constitutionally vague and does not give a potential defendant the required specificity required to be enforced. What, Fed Ex wants to expand its operations in Poland and discusses a tariff issue which causes delays in delivery with a Government agent when the United States has instituted that tariff on certain goods will result in executives of Federal Express being prosecuted as Felons.......Please. This is no different than the criminal statute concerning gross negligence in handling government documents which is right on the face of the statue and had our brainiacs crying out that Hillary was guilty. They forgot to mention that the Supreme Court in the 1940s found the statute unconstitutional unless their was intent to transfer documents to third parties. The statute is still on the books, but it fails the constitutional test. There is a reason nobody has been successfully prosecuted under that act, and it is the obvious unconstitutional nature of the act to make a criminal out of General Flynn's absolute right to talk to agents of another country about future policy when and if the new administration takes office. Honestly, Rachel Maddow has caused more damage seeking perfect at the expense of good that I hold her and all of MSNBC responsible for the election of President Trump as they increased their viewership giving candidate trump millions of dollars of free media time to drum up how stupid he was and how outrageous he was that they almost single handily gave him the office of President. Morning Joe was probably a worse offender than Rachel, and Bob and I would watch morning Joe religiously for the last five years and converse about what went on that morning. I have not watched one show since the election. The Fox News formula for viewership has been copied, and to suggest that the General is guilty under the Logan Act is absurd propaganda. Show me intent, quid pro quo, or treason in regard to Russian interference in the American election which has DIRECT evidence of the same, or wait for actual evidence. This is awful what has been done, and yet the mob just marches in lock step to support propagandist who profit from nonsense.

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Trump has decided to evoke the Sedition Act. Henceforth media and all who publish (all Internet) disparaging or negative or false propaganda will be arrested and summarily executed. All those repeating said offenses will be given a loyalty test to the USA... failure will result in re-education or execution depending uponthe severity of infraction.

That awkward moment when your desire for a leftist demagogue and autocratic gets hijacked... lol.

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PkrBum wrote:President Obama: "On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this, this can be solved but it’s important for him to give me space."

President Medvedev: "Yeah, I understand. I understand your message about space. Space for you…"

President Obama: "This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility."

President Medvedev: "I understand. I will transmit this information to Vladimir, and I stand with you."

Fact: Just before leaving office Obama levied new sanctions on Russia and kicked out a mob of their diplomats in Washington, D.C. These actions, by the way, are the sanctions and moves Flynn told the Russians not to react to -- because Trump would reverse everything once he was in office.

Tell me Pkrbum, in your desperation over the ongoing disaster with Trump and gang, why do you continually point your finger at people who are no longer in power?  Are you telling us that if Obama did something bad it's okay for your guy to do so?  How fucking infantile!

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Because we will never regain control of our country until we unite and allow only one set of standards.

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PkrBum wrote:Because we will never regain control of our country until we unite and allow only one set of standards.





Maybe you can kick start things by creating another circlejerk poll to oust the guy that runs this forum again. A grass roots movement. Laughing Laughing Laughing

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Telstar wrote:
PkrBum wrote:Because we will never regain control of our country until we unite and allow only one set of standards.





Maybe you can kick start things by creating another circlejerk poll to oust the guy that runs this forum again. A grass roots movement. Laughing Laughing Laughing

Not to mention trying to have me ousted...twice.

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Floridatexan wrote:
Telstar wrote:
PkrBum wrote:Because we will never regain control of our country until we unite and allow only one set of standards.





Maybe you can kick start things by creating another circlejerk poll to oust the guy that runs this forum again. A grass roots movement. Laughing Laughing Laughing

Not to mention trying to have me ousted...twice.




That I didn't know. Must have missed it in the back pages. What could you do to ruffle his feathers?

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You are every bit the partisan hack and propagandist that you accuse Markle of being...

the only difference being that you do it from the left and are immune to blind justice here.

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PkrBum wrote:You are every bit the partisan hack and propagandist that you accuse Markle of being...

the only difference being that you do it from the left and are immune to blind justice here.


So then why doesn't Boards create a poll about removing her the way he did about Markle?

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These actions, by the way, are the sanctions and moves Flynn told the Russians not to react to -- because Trump would reverse everything once he was in office.

That is a legal conversation. There is no violation of the law in that fact pattern.

It is understandable that President Trump is offended by the suggestion that the Russians helped him. If there is a smoking gun transcript which shows a quid pro quo deal, I would agree that act would be in violation of the law, and might meet the criteria for a very serious charge of treason. There is not one fact disclosed to date which suggests that there was treason or an active quid pro quo. This is just the flip side of the Hillary Clinton lock her up propaganda campaign where innuendo alone attempted to make the American public think she was facing indictment. She was not. She will not successfully be prosecuted based on the law. The General is not facing any criminal or legal action based on the same innuendo that SOS Clinton faced. I cannot believe folks are doing exactly what the crazies did to President Obama and to SOS Clinton, all the while MSNBC is getting ratings like Fox. This chit has to stop.

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Telstar wrote:
PkrBum wrote:You are every bit the partisan hack and propagandist that you accuse Markle of being...

the only difference being that you do it from the left and are immune to blind justice here.


So then why doesn't Boards create a poll about removing her the way he did about Markle?



Maybe it's just that Boards doesn't consider her a threat to his forum the way he does Markle.

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2seaoat wrote:The General is not facing any criminal or legal action based on the same innuendo that SOS Clinton faced.  I cannot believe folks are doing exactly what the crazies did to President Obama and to SOS Clinton, all the while MSNBC is getting ratings like Fox.   This chit has to stop.

What don't you understand about the fact that the investigation into Flynn's conversations is still ongoing, and that the American people have a right to know it's being looked into, whether or not he's "facing any criminal or legal action" at this point?

And what don't you understand about the fact that this story is FAR from just belonging to MSNBC, which fact you continue to insist on ignoring??

I swear it's insulting the way you plow into these furious, windmill-tilting defensive postures of yours full steam ahead with total disregard for ANYTHING that anyone else tells you.

The "chit" that has to stop is your going off the deep end.  CALM DOWN, WAIT AND SEE, and find a more valid object of your fury.  There are plenty of things out there far more egregious than media discussion of Flynn's conversations, especially given they took place immediately after sanctions were imposed by PRESIDENT Obama for Russia's PROVEN interference in our elections to Trump's ultimate benefit.

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Ridiculous. You can't expect a "right to know" when you don't use that power uniformly and evenly.

Nothing will be disclosed... nothing uncovered... nothing answered to your satisfaction.

That's the game... yea team..!!

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PkrBum wrote:Ridiculous. You can't expect a "right to know" when you don't use that power uniformly and evenly.

Please show me when and where I did or didn't do whatever the hell you're talking about.

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http://www.dailywire.com/news/10982/obama-says-hes-had-scandal-free-administration-aaron-bandler


1. Operation Fast and Furious. This egregious example of a reckless government endangering lives and then scrambling to cover it up has haunted Obama for years. As Daily Wire has explained, "Operation Fast and Furious involved the Obama administration arming drug cartels and thugs south of the border as a means to undermine the Second Amendment. The program resulted in the death of U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry. One of the Islamic terrorists in the Garland, Texas, attack also used a gun that was obtained through the Fast and Furious program."

The attempt to cover up the fatal program resulted in Obama's first AG being held in contempt of Congress:

Then-Attorney General Eric Holder was held in contempt of Congress for stonewalling investigations into Operation Fast and Furious, and President Barack Obama further stonewalled the investigations by wrongly asserting executive privilege. On Tuesday, a federal judge threw out Obama's executive privilege assertion on the grounds that the Justice Department "has already publicly revealed the sum and substance of the very material it is now seeking to withhold. Since any harm that would flow from the disclosures sought here would be merely incremental, the records must be produced."

It has also been revealed that Joaquin Guzman, better known as the drug lord "El Chapo," acquired a .50 caliber rifle as a result of Fast and Furious.

2. Benghazi. The terror attacks in Benghazi, Libya resulted in four brave Americans dying despite the fact that help could have been sent, but wasn't. Requests for security prior to the attack were repeatedly denied, and after the attack Obama and Hillary Clinton falsely blamed it on a video considered offensive to Muslims. During the election, Benghazi became associated with Clinton—and rightly so—but it is also Obama's scandal as well. It is still not known what Obama was doing that night.

3. The IRS targeted conservative organizations. In 2013, Lois Lerner, who directed the Internal Revenue Service's Exempt Organizations Unit, admitted that Tea Party organizations were targeted under the agency, but blamed it on lower-level employees. Such organizations were heavily scrutinized with invasive questions. Since then, Lerner and IRS commissioner John Koskinen have denied any wrongdoing and have stonewalled congressional efforts to investigate the matter, citing computer crashes for being unable to turn over related emails.

Meanwhile, a federal court concluded in August that conservative groups might still be facing targeted scrutiny from the IRS. It has also been reported that the Department of Justice (DOJ) knew about the IRS's targeting of conservative groups as early as 2011.

4. The DOJ seized Associated Press phone records as well as phone and email records from Fox News reporter James Rosen. In the AP's case, the DOJ was investigating a story involving "a CIA operation in Yemen that foiled an al-Qaeda plot in the spring of 2012 to set off a bomb on an airplane headed to the United States," according to the Washington Post. The DOJ seized two months of phone records from the AP without informing the news outlet.

"There can be no possible justification for such an overbroad collection of the telephone communications of The Associated Press and its reporters," Gary Pruitt, president of the AP wrote to Holder at the time. “These records potentially reveal communications with confidential sources across all of the newsgathering activities undertaken by the AP during a two-month period, provide a road map to AP’s newsgathering operations, and disclose information about AP’s activities and operations that the government has no conceivable right to know.”

In the Rosen case, the DOJ was investigating a story Rosen did involving North Korea and tracked "his movements and conversations," according to Fox News, including phone numbers belonging to Rosen's parents. The DOJ had listed Rosen as a "co-conspirator" under the Espionage Act in regards to the story—allegedly pressing a source for classified information. Rosen was never charged with a crime.

Fox News executive Michael Clemente called the DOJ's actions against Rosen "downright chilling." "We will unequivocally defend [Rosen’s] right to operate as a member of what up until now has always been a free press," Clemente said in a statement, per the Washington Post.

5. The NSA conducted mass surveillance against American citizens without a warrant. Thanks to leaking from former government contractor Edward Snowden, it was revealed that the National Security Agency had been conducting mass surveillance against American citizens—a clear violation of the Fourth Amendment. In 2015, the NSA eventually ended their bulk data collection of phone records.

6. The Obama administration paid ransom to Iran for hostages, and lied to the American people about it. As the Daily Wire has explained, the Obama administration claimed that they were giving a total of $1.7 billion to Iran to settle a failed arms deal with the previous Iranian regime, and it just happened to coincide with the release of four American hostages. The Obama administration also didn't reveal the details of the agreement to Congress. It was obvious though that it was a ransom deal and the Obama administration lied about it.

7. Hillary's email scandal. Clinton's use of a private email server that was unapproved and unsecured has been written about extensively, but it is also Obama's scandal as well, since it has been revealed that not only did Obama know about her private email server, he also communicated with her under the use of a pseudonym. If their email exchanges involved classified information, then Obama also would have violated the Espionage Act.

8. The Environmental Protection Agency poisoned a Colorado river. The EPA breached the Gold King mine in the state and "mistakenly dug at the bottom" as well as didn't test for pressure, leading to "three million gallons of toxic mine waste" being dumped into a river, according to The Daily Caller. The EPA has not been held accountable for this.

9. The EPA also broke federal law in promoting a regulation. The Daily Wire reported in 2015 that the nonpartisan Government Accountability Office concluded that the EPA broke the law in using Thunderclap to tout their "Waters of the United States" regulation as well as their use of "hyperlinks to the [Natural Resources Defense Council] and Surfrider Foundation webpages provided in the EPA blog post."

10. The GSA scandal. The General Services Administration was busted in 2012 for spending $823,000 on an extravagantly decadent conference in Las Vegas, and it became a shining example of government waste. Several people in the agency were fired, with one facing an indictment. Despite the scandal, lavish spending still occurred within federal agencies under the Obama administration.

11. The Secret Service scandal. The Secret Service was caught in 2012 engaging with prostitutes during a trip to Cartegena, Columbia, with one Secret Service agent emailing another: "Swagg cologne-check/Pimp gear-check/ Swagg sunglasses-check/Cash fo dem hoes-check." They "also left sensitive government documents unprotected in their Cartagena rooms," according to The Daily Caller.

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[quote="PkrBum"]http://www.dailywire.com/news/10982/obama-says-hes-had-scandal-free-administration-aaron-bandler


More partisan garbage and propaganda from the yellow belly that is afraid to post on the stormfront light form with Markle and others of his ilk. They must think he's a total candy ass. Might even be the traitor that broadcasted that forums location. Twisted Evil

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Yup ...

... scandal free, but not without nontroversy.

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PkrBum wrote:http://www.dailywire.com/news/10982/obama-says-hes-had-scandal-free-administration-aaron-bandler


1. Operation Fast and Furious. This egregious example of a reckless government endangering lives and then scrambling to cover it up has haunted Obama for years. As Daily Wire has explained, "Operation Fast and Furious involved the Obama administration arming drug cartels and thugs south of the border as a means to undermine the Second Amendment. The program resulted in the death of U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry. One of the Islamic terrorists in the Garland, Texas, attack also used a gun that was obtained through the Fast and Furious program."

The attempt to cover up the fatal program resulted in Obama's first AG being held in contempt of Congress:

Then-Attorney General Eric Holder was held in contempt of Congress for stonewalling investigations into Operation Fast and Furious, and President Barack Obama further stonewalled the investigations by wrongly asserting executive privilege.  On Tuesday, a federal judge threw out Obama's executive privilege assertion on the grounds that the Justice Department "has already publicly revealed the sum and substance of the very material it is now seeking to withhold. Since any harm that would flow from the disclosures sought here would be merely incremental, the records must be produced."

It has also been revealed that Joaquin Guzman, better known as the drug lord "El Chapo," acquired a .50 caliber rifle as a result of Fast and Furious.

2. Benghazi. The terror attacks in Benghazi, Libya resulted in four brave Americans dying despite the fact that help could have been sent, but wasn't. Requests for security prior to the attack were repeatedly denied, and after the attack Obama and Hillary Clinton falsely blamed it on a video considered offensive to Muslims. During the election, Benghazi became associated with Clinton—and rightly so—but it is also Obama's scandal as well. It is still not known what Obama was doing that night.

3. The IRS targeted conservative organizations. In 2013, Lois Lerner, who directed the Internal Revenue Service's Exempt Organizations Unit, admitted that Tea Party organizations were targeted under the agency, but blamed it on lower-level employees. Such organizations were heavily scrutinized with invasive questions. Since then, Lerner and IRS commissioner John Koskinen have denied any wrongdoing and have stonewalled congressional efforts to investigate the matter, citing computer crashes for being unable to turn over related emails.

Meanwhile, a federal court concluded in August that conservative groups might still be facing targeted scrutiny from the IRS. It has also been reported that the Department of Justice (DOJ) knew about the IRS's targeting of conservative groups as early as 2011.

4. The DOJ seized Associated Press phone records as well as phone and email records from Fox News reporter James Rosen. In the AP's case, the DOJ was investigating a story involving "a CIA operation in Yemen that foiled an al-Qaeda plot in the spring of 2012 to set off a bomb on an airplane headed to the United States," according to the Washington Post. The DOJ seized two months of phone records from the AP without informing the news outlet.

"There can be no possible justification for such an overbroad collection of the telephone communications of The Associated Press and its reporters," Gary Pruitt, president of the AP wrote to Holder at the time. “These records potentially reveal communications with confidential sources across all of the newsgathering activities undertaken by the AP during a two-month period, provide a road map to AP’s newsgathering operations, and disclose information about AP’s activities and operations that the government has no conceivable right to know.”

In the Rosen case, the DOJ was investigating a story Rosen did involving North Korea and tracked "his movements and conversations," according to Fox News, including phone numbers belonging to Rosen's parents. The DOJ had listed Rosen as a "co-conspirator" under the Espionage Act in regards to the story—allegedly pressing a source for classified information. Rosen was never charged with a crime.

Fox News executive Michael Clemente called the DOJ's actions against Rosen "downright chilling." "We will unequivocally defend [Rosen’s] right to operate as a member of what up until now has always been a free press," Clemente said in a statement, per the Washington Post.

5. The NSA conducted mass surveillance against American citizens without a warrant. Thanks to leaking from former government contractor Edward Snowden, it was revealed that the National Security Agency had been conducting mass surveillance against American citizens—a clear violation of the Fourth Amendment. In 2015, the NSA eventually ended their bulk data collection of phone records.

6. The Obama administration paid ransom to Iran for hostages, and lied to the American people about it. As the Daily Wire has explained, the Obama administration claimed that they were giving a total of $1.7 billion to Iran to settle a failed arms deal with the previous Iranian regime, and it just happened to coincide with the release of four American hostages. The Obama administration also didn't reveal the details of the agreement to Congress. It was obvious though that it was a ransom deal and the Obama administration lied about it.

7. Hillary's email scandal. Clinton's use of a private email server that was unapproved and unsecured has been written about extensively, but it is also Obama's scandal as well, since it has been revealed that not only did Obama know about her private email server, he also communicated with her under the use of a pseudonym. If their email exchanges involved classified information, then Obama also would have violated the Espionage Act.

8. The Environmental Protection Agency poisoned a Colorado river. The EPA breached the Gold King mine in the state and "mistakenly dug at the bottom" as well as didn't test for pressure, leading to "three million gallons of toxic mine waste" being dumped into a river, according to The Daily Caller. The EPA has not been held accountable for this.

9. The EPA also broke federal law in promoting a regulation. The Daily Wire reported in 2015 that the nonpartisan Government Accountability Office concluded that the EPA broke the law in using Thunderclap to tout their "Waters of the United States" regulation as well as their use of "hyperlinks to the [Natural Resources Defense Council] and Surfrider Foundation webpages provided in the EPA blog post."

10. The GSA scandal. The General Services Administration was busted in 2012 for spending $823,000 on an extravagantly decadent conference in Las Vegas, and it became a shining example of government waste. Several people in the agency were fired, with one facing an indictment. Despite the scandal, lavish spending still occurred within federal agencies under the Obama administration.

11. The Secret Service scandal. The Secret Service was caught in 2012 engaging with prostitutes during a trip to Cartegena, Columbia, with one Secret Service agent emailing another: "Swagg cologne-check/Pimp gear-check/ Swagg sunglasses-check/Cash fo dem hoes-check." They "also left sensitive government documents unprotected in their Cartagena rooms," according to The Daily Caller.



Obama is no longer the President. The Pussy Grabber with the dead rat on his head is in the driver's seat. Nobody except you gives a shit anymore about what Obama did or didn't do. And NOTHING OBAMA DID JUSTIFIES ANYTHING TRUMP IS DOING. Just what is your fucking point? Once again, are you justifying Trump's bad deeds by reciting Obama's?

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Wordslinger wrote:
Obama is no longer the President.  The Pussy Grabber with the dead rat on his head is in the driver's seat.  Nobody except you gives a shit anymore about what Obama did or didn't do.  And NOTHING OBAMA DID JUSTIFIES ANYTHING TRUMP IS DOING.  Just what is your fucking point?  Once again, are you justifying Trump's bad deeds by reciting Obama's?


cheers    cheers    cheers     THANK YOU, Word.  But don't expect Pkr to "get it."  He never will, I fear.   His sense of balance or justice or SOMETHING is continually offended when there is not 100% tit for tat in the political universe as he sees it.  Sadly, he's destined to be forever disappointed and disgruntled, because life simply doesn't work that way, much less politics. He can't change it, and neither can we.  Pkr's vision of unity based on a single set of standards for judging everything and everyone in the body politic will likely forever remain just that -- a lovely but entirely non-achievable vision of even-handed, universal justice in all things. (And don't expect him to answer your final question, either -- the one I've been asking for weeks now as to whether or not two wrongs make a right.  Or will he?   Smile )

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But y'all run around waving your arms about these Trump issues... and wonder why nothing is done.

We won't ever have accountability because we don't always demand it. Enjoy.

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What don't you understand about the fact that the investigation into Flynn's conversations is still ongoing,

The over reaction to this story makes the birth certificate of president Obama pale in comparison. Turn off the propaganda and think for yourself.

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2seaoat wrote:What don't you understand about the fact that the investigation into Flynn's conversations is still ongoing,

The over reaction to this story makes the birth certificate of president Obama pale in comparison.  Turn off the propaganda and think for yourself.

I absolutely AM thinking for myself, sir, which is why I have said (how many times now??) that I'm taking a sit back, wait and see attitude.  I do, however, consider the matter worth investigating and make NO apology for that.

As for any comparison between this story and the YEARS-LONG, STILL ONGOING birther crapola, that's the biggest piece of B.S. you've written this year to date.

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hysteria toward President Obama and the innuendo feeding the propaganda frenzy, hysteria toward SOS Clinton and innuendo feeding the propaganda frenzy, and now hysteria toward President Trump and the innuendo feeding the propaganda frenzy......I do not see a bit of difference. Was President Obama born in Kenya.....doubtful. Did Hillary sell documents to profit......doubtful. Did the general organize a Russian interference with the election......doubtful, but heck PK is right......the double standard concerning nothing being blown up to great TV ratings continue, and when I suggested that folks were saying things about President Obama and SOS Clinton without proof, I received the same reception.....same book, different cover.

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2seaoat wrote:What don't you understand about the fact that the investigation into Flynn's conversations is still ongoing,

The over reaction to this story makes the birth certificate of president Obama pale in comparison.  Turn off the propaganda and think for yourself.

You are floating on De Nile. All the indicators were there during the election; the sad part is that very little came to light before November. Do your own research and then tell me I'm wrong.

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2seaoat wrote:hysteria toward President Obama and the innuendo feeding the propaganda frenzy, hysteria toward SOS Clinton and innuendo feeding the propaganda frenzy, and now hysteria toward President Trump and the innuendo feeding the propaganda frenzy......I do not see a bit of difference.  Was President Obama born in Kenya.....doubtful.  Did Hillary sell documents to profit......doubtful.  Did the general organize a Russian interference with the election......doubtful, but heck PK is right......the double standard concerning nothing being blown up to great TV ratings continue, and when I suggested that folks were saying things about President Obama and SOS Clinton without proof, I received the same reception.....same book, different cover.

False analogy. I think you don't want to believe the depths to which your party has sunk.

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