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Should Primaries be open to all voters?

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Hospital Bob
boards of FL
dumpcare
7 posters

Should Presidential primaries be open to all voters?

Should Primaries be open to all voters? I_vote_lcap50%Should Primaries be open to all voters? I_vote_rcap 50% [ 6 ]
Should Primaries be open to all voters? I_vote_lcap50%Should Primaries be open to all voters? I_vote_rcap 50% [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 12


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Guest


Guest

These states allow open Presidential primaries.
Alabama
Arkansas
Georgia
Hawaii (Open primary for state, local, and congressional races; caucus system for presidential races.)
Massachusetts (All races' primaries open for "unenrolled"/unaffiliated voters only)
Michigan
Mississippi
Missouri
North Carolina
North Dakota
South Carolina
Tennessee
Vermont
Virginia
Wisconsin

(list from Wikipedia)

dumpcare



Yes, as a registered NPA here in Florida I should be able to vote in both primaries. I will not re register republican to vote against Trump.

When I moved here I found this strange because I have lived in 3 of the states you have listed and always voted in primaries.

boards of FL

boards of FL

I voted no. Republicans should only be able to vote in the republican primary and democrats only in the democratic primary. People with no party affiliation should be allowed to select which one they want to participate in, but not both.

I have no party affiliation on my voter registration.


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Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

I heard a journalist on tv the other day explaining the Iowa "caucus" thing.
The way he described it,  that is the most convoluted thing you can imagine.

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

boards of FL wrote:People with no party affiliation should be allowed to select which one they want to participate in, but not both.

I agree with you, and vote by mail should be the primary means of voting in our state.

When it is absolutely and positively foolproof/tamperproof, online voting should be the primary means, with vote by mail as a back-up for those who don't use or have access to the Internet. Why go through the hassle and costs of setting up and manning precincts when better means of getting out the vote are at hand?

I would venture to say most Republicans would be against the approach I describe......

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

boards of FL wrote:I voted no.  Republicans should only be able to vote in the republican primary and democrats only in the democratic primary.   People with no party affiliation should be allowed to select which one they want to participate in, but not both.

I have no party affiliation on my voter registration.

I don't believe Florida law allows independent voters to cast a ballot in a primary election...that leaves an increasing number of voters out in the cold...and it certainly has an effect on local and state elections. All voters should be able to choose a candidate in a primary. No one should have to register as R or D to vote in a local election.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
boards of FL wrote:People with no party affiliation should be allowed to select which one they want to participate in, but not both.

I agree with you, and vote by mail should be the primary means of voting in our state.

When it is absolutely and positively foolproof/tamperproof, online voting should be the primary means, with vote by mail as a back-up for those who don't use or have access to the Internet. Why go through the hassle and costs of setting up and manning precincts when better means of getting out the vote are at hand?

I would venture to say most Republicans would be against the approach I describe......

I don't like the idea of vote by mail, except for early or absentee ballots..."now where did I put that ballot again?" I also can't foresee internet voting as tamperproof. I like the actual physical act of going to my precinct and casting a physical ballot. Then I wear my "I voted" sticker to remind other people to vote.

Sal

Sal

Floridatexan wrote:
I don't like the idea of vote by mail, except for early or absentee ballots  

Read this, and you might change your mind ...

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/januaryfebruary_2016/features/vote_from_home_save_your_count059190.php?page=all

UVBM is good for democracy.

Markle

Markle

Bob wrote:I heard a journalist on tv the other day explaining the Iowa "caucus" thing.
The way he described it,  that is the most convoluted thing you can imagine.

That is true.

Guest


Guest

Perhaps my brain is in utopia at the moment but I'm thinking if I, a registered Republican, had a vote in a democratic primary then perhaps I would listen more closely and be more discerning with my precious right to vote. I would be allowed to vote my choice in both party primaries. Seems to me the ultimate winners for each party would be bringing a voice of all the people?

Skewed? Perhaps. Just thinking...

All the people with a choice in both parties. Might put us all in a more reasonable state of thinking of best choices for all and not just some.


ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

SheWrites wrote:Might put us all in a more reasonable state of thinking of best choices for all and not just some.

The bankers and corporations would be deathly afraid of we, the people, getting more power than they currently allow us to have. They want us to be divided and fighting with each other, because then we can easily be more manipulated.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

boards of FL

boards of FL

SheWrites wrote:Perhaps my brain is in utopia at the moment but I'm thinking if I, a registered Republican, had a vote in a democratic primary then perhaps I would listen more closely and be more discerning with my precious right to vote.  I would be allowed to vote my choice in both party primaries.  Seems to me the ultimate winners for each party would be bringing a voice of all the people?

Skewed?  Perhaps.  Just thinking...

All the people with a choice in both parties.  Might put us all in a more reasonable state of thinking of best choices for all and not just some.





Not only are you living in a utopia, you have a very bad memory.  During the 2008 primary process, Rush Limbaugh was pushing what he called "Operation Chaos", daily encouraging republicans to vote in the democratic primary in order to prolong the emergence of a clear winner for as long as possible.  If Obama began to pull ahead, Rush would push for republicans to vote for Clinton.  If Clinton began to pull ahead, Rush would push for republicans to vote for Obama.  The goal was to tear the democratic party apart.  This sort of thing is a spineless attempt to win an election by gaming the voting process as opposed to winning people over honestly in the arena of ideas.

You know how there are things in life that seem like they should work and that everyone should be able to enjoy, but there there is some lowest common denominator that spoils it for everyone?  This is one of those things.  We can't have open and honest primaries because of republicans.  

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2008/03/12/rush_the_vote_operation_chaos

Should Primaries be open to all voters? 01125108.Par.89380.ImageFile


BEGIN TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: Operation Chaos. What did that black website name this yesterday? I'm having a mental block. The Rush Vote. Listen to this. This is from somebody by the name of John K. Wilson at the Huffington Post today. Headline: "Mississippi, 'Limbaugh Effect' Softens Blow for Hillary Clinton -- Hillary Clinton suffered a huge defeat last night in Mississippi, and now faces an insurmountable pledged delegate lead by Barack Obama. But what most pundits missed was the fact that Obama's victory would have been even more overwhelming in Mississippi (and he might have won the popular vote in Texas) if not for the 'Limbaugh Effect': Republicans voting in the Democratic primary in order to undermine Barack Obama and help John McCain. ... In the voting during January and February, Republicans were an average of 3.8% of the voters in the Democratic Primary, and they heavily supported Obama. But for the primaries in March, in Texas, Ohio, and Mississippi, Republicans have been 8% of the voters in the Democratic primary, and now they heavily support Hillary Clinton. This is definite proof of the 'Limbaugh Effect' coming through."

Then you go to the last paragraph. "Rarely in American politics have so many people ever intentionally voted for a candidate they hate so much. Approximately 40,000 Republicans in Mississippi decided to vote for Hillary Clinton in order to help her destroy the Democratic Party this year with a divided convention. Hillary Clinton's 'big wins' in March failed to help her close the delegate gap, and she cannot possibly win the pledged delegate race against Obama. The only hope for Hillary Clinton is that Republican voters will help her reduce the gap against Obama, and that the superdelegates will somehow be convinced to obey the will of Rush Limbaugh and his acolytes by stealing the election from the legitimate voters."



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rush_Limbaugh_Show#Operation_Chaos

In late February 2008, Limbaugh announced "Operation Chaos," a political call to action with the initial plan to have voters of the Republican Party temporarily cross over to vote in the Democratic primary and vote for Hillary Clinton, who at the time was in the midst of losing eleven straight primary contests to Barack Obama. Limbaugh has also cited the open primary process in the early primary states of New Hampshire and South Carolina, which allowed independent voters to cross over into the Republican primaries to choose John McCain over more conservative candidates (such as Fred Thompson), as an inspiration.

At the point in which Limbaugh announced his gambit, Obama had seemed on the verge of clinching the Democratic nomination.[112] However, Clinton subsequently won the Ohio primary and the Texas primary (while losing the Texas caucus and the overall delegate split) with large pluralities from rural counties; thus reemerging as a competitive opponent in the race.[113]

On April 29, 2008 Limbaugh declared an "operational pause" in Operation Chaos, saying that Obama's defeat in the 2008 Pennsylvania primary and fallout from statements from Obama ally Reverend Jeremiah Wright could have damaged his campaign to the extent superdelegates would shift to Clinton's side.[114] Determining Obama had weathered that storm, Limbaugh lifted the pause the next day and renewed his call for his listeners to vote for Clinton in the upcoming Indiana and North Carolina primaries.[115] Obama won the North Carolina primary[116] but was narrowly defeated in Indiana, where Clinton won decisively in rural counties that normally vote Republican in presidential elections.[117]

The overall legality of Operation Chaos in several states, including Ohio and Indiana, is disputed. In Ohio, new party members are required to sign a pledge of loyalty to the party they join for a minimum of one year, making participation in "Operation Chaos" a possible felony (election falsification) in that state. However, the state attorney general there refused to press charges on anyone, saying that it would be nearly impossible to enforce because of difficulties proving voter intent and concerns that a loyalty oath would violate freedom of association.[118]


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Sal

Sal

You beat me to it, Boards.

And, Rush has indicated he's open to mounting a similar attempt at sabotage in this year's primary.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

Salinsky wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
I don't like the idea of vote by mail, except for early or absentee ballots  

Read this, and you might change your mind ...

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/januaryfebruary_2016/features/vote_from_home_save_your_count059190.php?page=all

UVBM is good for democracy.

You're right, Sal. It did change my mind. Very Happy

Guest


Guest

boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:Perhaps my brain is in utopia at the moment but I'm thinking if I, a registered Republican, had a vote in a democratic primary then perhaps I would listen more closely and be more discerning with my precious right to vote.  I would be allowed to vote my choice in both party primaries.  Seems to me the ultimate winners for each party would be bringing a voice of all the people?

Skewed?  Perhaps.  Just thinking...

All the people with a choice in both parties.  Might put us all in a more reasonable state of thinking of best choices for all and not just some.





Not only are you living in a utopia, you have a very bad memory.  During the 2008 primary process, Rush Limbaugh was pushing what he called "Operation Chaos", daily encouraging republicans to vote in the democratic primary in order to prolong the emergence of a clear winner for as long as possible.  If Obama began to pull ahead, Rush would push for republicans to vote for Clinton.  If Clinton began to pull ahead, Rush would push for republicans to vote for Obama.  The goal was to tear the democratic party apart.  This sort of thing is a spineless attempt to win an election by gaming the voting process as opposed to winning people over honestly in the arena of ideas.

You know how there are things in life that seem like they should work and that everyone should be able to enjoy, but there there is some lowest common denominator that spoils it for everyone?  This is one of those things.  We can't have open and honest primaries because of republicans.  

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2008/03/12/rush_the_vote_operation_chaos

Should Primaries be open to all voters? 01125108.Par.89380.ImageFile


BEGIN TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: Operation Chaos. What did that black website name this yesterday? I'm having a mental block. The Rush Vote. Listen to this. This is from somebody by the name of John K. Wilson at the Huffington Post today. Headline: "Mississippi, 'Limbaugh Effect' Softens Blow for Hillary Clinton -- Hillary Clinton suffered a huge defeat last night in Mississippi, and now faces an insurmountable pledged delegate lead by Barack Obama. But what most pundits missed was the fact that Obama's victory would have been even more overwhelming in Mississippi (and he might have won the popular vote in Texas) if not for the 'Limbaugh Effect': Republicans voting in the Democratic primary in order to undermine Barack Obama and help John McCain. ... In the voting during January and February, Republicans were an average of 3.8% of the voters in the Democratic Primary, and they heavily supported Obama. But for the primaries in March, in Texas, Ohio, and Mississippi, Republicans have been 8% of the voters in the Democratic primary, and now they heavily support Hillary Clinton. This is definite proof of the 'Limbaugh Effect' coming through."

Then you go to the last paragraph. "Rarely in American politics have so many people ever intentionally voted for a candidate they hate so much. Approximately 40,000 Republicans in Mississippi decided to vote for Hillary Clinton in order to help her destroy the Democratic Party this year with a divided convention. Hillary Clinton's 'big wins' in March failed to help her close the delegate gap, and she cannot possibly win the pledged delegate race against Obama. The only hope for Hillary Clinton is that Republican voters will help her reduce the gap against Obama, and that the superdelegates will somehow be convinced to obey the will of Rush Limbaugh and his acolytes by stealing the election from the legitimate voters."



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rush_Limbaugh_Show#Operation_Chaos

In late February 2008, Limbaugh announced "Operation Chaos," a political call to action with the initial plan to have voters of the Republican Party temporarily cross over to vote in the Democratic primary and vote for Hillary Clinton, who at the time was in the midst of losing eleven straight primary contests to Barack Obama. Limbaugh has also cited the open primary process in the early primary states of New Hampshire and South Carolina, which allowed independent voters to cross over into the Republican primaries to choose John McCain over more conservative candidates (such as Fred Thompson), as an inspiration.

At the point in which Limbaugh announced his gambit, Obama had seemed on the verge of clinching the Democratic nomination.[112] However, Clinton subsequently won the Ohio primary and the Texas primary (while losing the Texas caucus and the overall delegate split) with large pluralities from rural counties; thus reemerging as a competitive opponent in the race.[113]

On April 29, 2008 Limbaugh declared an "operational pause" in Operation Chaos, saying that Obama's defeat in the 2008 Pennsylvania primary and fallout from statements from Obama ally Reverend Jeremiah Wright could have damaged his campaign to the extent superdelegates would shift to Clinton's side.[114] Determining Obama had weathered that storm, Limbaugh lifted the pause the next day and renewed his call for his listeners to vote for Clinton in the upcoming Indiana and North Carolina primaries.[115] Obama won the North Carolina primary[116] but was narrowly defeated in Indiana, where Clinton won decisively in rural counties that normally vote Republican in presidential elections.[117]

The overall legality of Operation Chaos in several states, including Ohio and Indiana, is disputed. In Ohio, new party members are required to sign a pledge of loyalty to the party they join for a minimum of one year, making participation in "Operation Chaos" a possible felony (election falsification) in that state. However, the state attorney general there refused to press charges on anyone, saying that it would be nearly impossible to enforce because of difficulties proving voter intent and concerns that a loyalty oath would violate freedom of association.[118]

I recall this and thought at the time, and still do, that it was manipulative and utterly wrong. He should have been sanctioned by the FCC.

What I speak of is the voice of every voter having a say in the election on both sides in a primary. Not the asinine manipulation of RL.

boards of FL

boards of FL

SheWrites wrote:What I speak of is the voice of every voter having a say in the election on both sides in a primary.  Not the asinine manipulation of RL.



Yes. Open and honest primaries would be nice but, alas,...republican voters.

This is why we can't have nice things.


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boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:What I speak of is the voice of every voter having a say in the election on both sides in a primary.  Not the asinine manipulation of RL.



Yes.  Open and honest primaries would be nice but, alas,...republican voters.

This is why we can't have nice things.


Boards, let's assume we have an open honest primary voting situation for all voters all primaries.

Who would you vote for in the Republican primary come March 15?

boards of FL

boards of FL

SheWrites wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:What I speak of is the voice of every voter having a say in the election on both sides in a primary.  Not the asinine manipulation of RL.



Yes.  Open and honest primaries would be nice but, alas,...republican voters.

This is why we can't have nice things.


Boards, let's assume we have an open honest primary voting situation for all voters all primaries.  

Who would you vote for in the Republican primary come March 15?


No.  I see no electable candidates (in a general election) in that race.

Edit:  Just realized thast you asked me "who" I would vote for, rather than "if".  If Kasich had a shot, I'd probably vote for him.


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boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:What I speak of is the voice of every voter having a say in the election on both sides in a primary.  Not the asinine manipulation of RL.



Yes.  Open and honest primaries would be nice but, alas,...republican voters.

This is why we can't have nice things.


Boards, let's assume we have an open honest primary voting situation for all voters all primaries.  

Who would you vote for in the Republican primary come March 15?


No.  I see no electable candidates (in a general election) in that race.

Edit:  Just realized thast you asked me "who" I would vote for, rather than "if".  If Kasich had a shot, I'd probably vote for him.

Yep.

Of the democrats, again if he had a shot, I'd vote for O'Malley.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

SheWrites wrote:Perhaps my brain is in utopia at the moment but I'm thinking if I, a registered Republican, had a vote in a democratic primary then perhaps I would listen more closely and be more discerning with my precious right to vote.  I would be allowed to vote my choice in both party primaries.  Seems to me the ultimate winners for each party would be bringing a voice of all the people?

Skewed?  Perhaps.  Just thinking...

All the people with a choice in both parties.  Might put us all in a more reasonable state of thinking of best choices for all and not just some.



That would violate "one person, one vote". You would only get to vote in one primary, regardless of whether you're R, D, or I.

Markle

Markle

boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:What I speak of is the voice of every voter having a say in the election on both sides in a primary.  Not the asinine manipulation of RL.

Yes.  Open and honest primaries would be nice but, alas,...republican voters.

This is why we can't have nice things.


You're saying that record numbers of people in poverty, declining average incomes, more people who have quit looking for jobs, a meager GDP for years, the Middle East exploding and Islamic Terrorist Attacks increasing around the world are "NICE THINGS"?

Really? How?

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

boards of FL wrote:If Kasich had a shot, I'd probably vote for him.

I will be voting in the Republican Primary, and Kasich likely will be getting my vote. He would be the least of the bunch to engage in military misadventurism. Rand Paul would refrain from starting new wars, too.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

Markle wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:What I speak of is the voice of every voter having a say in the election on both sides in a primary.  Not the asinine manipulation of RL.

Yes.  Open and honest primaries would be nice but, alas,...republican voters.

This is why we can't have nice things.


You're saying that record numbers of people in poverty, declining average incomes, more people who have quit looking for jobs, a meager GDP for years, the Middle East exploding and Islamic Terrorist Attacks increasing around the world are "NICE THINGS"?

Really?  How?

Looky here.... Poster Markle is trying to change the channel on this discussion.... Was he NOT ragging on me for the same thing a day or two ago on another thread? What is the topic of this thread, Markle, and see if you can stick to your own "rules."

Should Primaries be open to all voters? Thumbs13

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

Markle

Markle

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
Markle wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:What I speak of is the voice of every voter having a say in the election on both sides in a primary.  Not the asinine manipulation of RL.

Yes.  Open and honest primaries would be nice but, alas,...republican voters.

This is why we can't have nice things.


You're saying that record numbers of people in poverty, declining average incomes, more people who have quit looking for jobs, a meager GDP for years, the Middle East exploding and Islamic Terrorist Attacks increasing around the world are "NICE THINGS"?

Really?  How?

Looky here.... Poster Markle is trying to change the channel on this discussion.... Was he NOT ragging on me for the same thing a day or two ago on another thread? What is the topic of this thread, Markle, and see if you can stick to your own "rules."

Should Primaries be open to all voters? Thumbs13

Sorry ZVUGKTUBM, I am on topic. Our good friend Boards of FL was stating that we couldn't have "nice things" and I was merely enumerating some of those "nice things".

boards of FL

boards of FL

Markle wrote:
ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
Markle wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:What I speak of is the voice of every voter having a say in the election on both sides in a primary.  Not the asinine manipulation of RL.

Yes.  Open and honest primaries would be nice but, alas,...republican voters.

This is why we can't have nice things.


You're saying that record numbers of people in poverty, declining average incomes, more people who have quit looking for jobs, a meager GDP for years, the Middle East exploding and Islamic Terrorist Attacks increasing around the world are "NICE THINGS"?

Really?  How?

Looky here.... Poster Markle is trying to change the channel on this discussion.... Was he NOT ragging on me for the same thing a day or two ago on another thread? What is the topic of this thread, Markle, and see if you can stick to your own "rules."

Should Primaries be open to all voters? Thumbs13

Sorry ZVUGKTUBM, I am on topic.  Our good friend Boards of FL was stating that we couldn't have "nice things" and I was merely enumerating some of those "nice things".


Look, everyone! That crazy old guy stumbled out of his room again, and is rambling about off topic nonsense!

Nurse! Nurse! Can someone please escort this guy back to his quarters?

Should Primaries be open to all voters? 4536076-rustic-wood-rocking-chair-by-window-Stock-Photo


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