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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » ‘El Chapo’ Hideout Had .50 Caliber Sniper Rifle Obtained Via Fast and Furious

‘El Chapo’ Hideout Had .50 Caliber Sniper Rifle Obtained Via Fast and Furious

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gatorfan
Sal
Hospital Bob
Markle
8 posters

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Markle

Markle

After the fierce firefight, that led to the re-arrest of "El Chapo", a .50 Caliber Sniper rifle turned up in the following search of his hideout.

‘El Chapo’ Hideout Had .50 Caliber Sniper Rifle Obtained Via Fast and Furious
The gathering of evidence that followed the capture of Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman has turned up a .50 caliber sniper rifle which was acquired via the Obama administration’s gun smuggling operation, Fast and Furious.

A .50 caliber sniper rifle can be used to stop a car in its tracks and is capable of extremely long-range shots. In fact, while reporting the breadth and scope of the gun running operations involved in Fast & Furious, Breitbart News warned that a cartel sniper familiar with a .50 cal would easily be able to take cover in Mexico and shoot cars driving East and West on I-10 in Texas.

Now we know that El Chapo had such a rifle.

On January 19 Fox News confirmed that the gun was obtained via Fast and Furious. The report also confirmed that the .50 caliber in El Chapo’s possession was one of two such rifles that have been traced back to Fast and Furious to date.

[...]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/20/rifle-capable-taking-down-helicopter-found-at-el-chapo-hideout-purchased-through-fast-and-furious-program.html?intcmp=hpbt2

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/01/20/el-chapos-hideout-had-50-caliber-rifle-obtained-via-fast-and-furious/

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Just for the sake of discussion,  let's assume this Fox News report is true.
That El Chappo obtained this weapon from "Fast and Furious".
I wonder what the response to that would be from Seaoat and Sal and bds and FloridaTexan.   Or any other diehard wrastlin fan on Obama's side of the ring.

Sal

Sal

Simple.

It was a terribly misguided program.

It was a terribly misguided program that was initiated under the Dubya administration.

And, the Obama administration put an end to this terribly misguided program as soon as they became aware of it.

Guest


Guest

The executive privilege obama used to thwart accountability apparently hypnotized the useful idiots too... €nothing matters¥.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Salinsky wrote:Simple.

It was a terribly misguided program.

It was a terribly misguided program that was initiated under the Dubya administration.

And, the Obama administration put an end to this terribly misguided program as soon as they became aware of it.

Interesting.

I'll admit that I'm not very informed about this thing.  But I had never heard until now that this was a Bush program that Obama got rid of.
Now I'm wondering how Markle will respond to that.  lol

In wrastlin,  Hulk Hogan's fans blame everything on Randy Savage.  And Randy Savage's fans blame everything on Hogan.  lol

gatorfan



Salinsky wrote:Simple.

It was a terribly misguided program.

It was a terribly misguided program that was initiated under the Dubya administration.

And, the Obama administration put an end to this terribly misguided program as soon as they became aware of it.

Nope.

That lie was debunked long ago. F&F started in 2009 under Obama. A similar program (Operation Wide Receiver) occurred under the Bush Admin. Both were stupid ideas.

Amazing how these urban legends take on a life of their own and true believers eat it up with a spoon.

http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2012/sep/24/barack-obama/barack-obama-said-fast-and-furious-began-under-bus/

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

The plot thickens.  Just like in wrastlin.  lol

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Here's the wikipedia version of events.  It gives the whole thing the name "gunwalking" and has it happening during both the Bush and Obama administrations. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal#2006.E2.80.932008:_Operation_Wide_Receiver_and_other_probes

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Manuel J. Jauregui of the Reforma newspaper wrote, "In sum, the gringo government has been sending weapons to Mexico in a premeditated and systematic manner, knowing that their destinations were Mexican criminal organizations."

"The Gringo government".  lol

2seaoat



I think President Obama shares some of the blame just like he did on the VA. Yes, the program did start with the Bush Administration, but it continued into the President Obama's administration, and yes, they shut the program down, but people were hurt. When You are President the buck stops on your desk, but clearly what Sal said is closer to the truth than what Gator has suggested. Yes, the VA had problems before President Obama, but people were getting delayed admissions during his Presidency.....there is no teflon Presidency....some of this criticism most certainly sticks, but to suggest that this was President Obama's operation is just more of right wing propaganda for slow witted folks who will vote for Sarah and Trump.....interesting what folks around here gobble that propaganda up.

gatorfan



2seaoat wrote:I think President Obama shares some of the blame just like he did on the VA.  Yes, the program did start with the Bush Administration, but it continued into the President Obama's administration, and yes, they shut the program down, but people were hurt.  When You are President the buck stops on your desk, but clearly what Sal said is closer to the truth than what Gator has suggested.  Yes, the VA had problems before President Obama, but people were getting delayed admissions during his Presidency.....there is no teflon Presidency....some of this criticism most certainly sticks, but to suggest that this was President Obama's operation is just more of right wing propaganda for slow witted folks who will vote for Sarah and Trump.....interesting what folks around here gobble that propaganda up.

I posted the facts in my link so once again you are wrong. F/F was owned by Obama while the other was owned by Bush.

Apparently Obama is more like Bush than people like to think.

You obviously didn't bother reading the politifact link that explains this at a level even an Obama apologist would find impossible to dispute.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

2seaoat wrote:interesting what folks around here gobble that propaganda up.


I would restate that sentence.  It's interesting how people around here gobble up the propaganda coming from both sides. 
But it becomes less surprising when you consider that people around the whole country are gobbling it all up too.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

But then again,  maybe so many are no longer wanting to gobble up all that propaganda coming from both sides.
And that's what explains all the support for Trump and Sanders. 

Now they want to gobble up a different kind of propaganda.  lol

Guest


Guest

Bob wrote:
Salinsky wrote:Simple.

It was a terribly misguided program.

It was a terribly misguided program that was initiated under the Dubya administration.

And, the Obama administration put an end to this terribly misguided program as soon as they became aware of it.

Interesting.

I'll admit that I'm not very informed about this thing.  But I had never heard until now that this was a Bush program that Obama got rid of.
Now I'm wondering how Markle will respond to that.  lol

In wrastlin,  Hulk Hogan's fans blame everything on Randy Savage.  And Randy Savage's fans blame everything on Hogan.  lol

It was a separate program... one that actually TRACKED and RECOVERED the weapons... obama and holder did not.

Why?

Sal

Sal

Gun walking was a policy that began under Bush and continued under Obama, until they realized what was going on and shut it down.

You can say that the buck stops on the President's desk, but it is absurd to think that a new President should understand every nuance of every idiotic program that every agency is implementing.

2seaoat



Gun walking was a policy that began under Bush and continued under Obama, until they realized what was going on and shut it down.

You can say that the buck stops on the President's desk, but it is absurd to think that a new President should understand every nuance of every idiotic program the every agency is implementing.


Agree completely. There was NOBODY in the Obama administration who came in and started gun running.....it is hilarious to see the attempt to make a distinction without a difference between President Bush's program and when President Obama took office. It is absolute propaganda, but having said that until they shut it down.......it was being operated under the President, and the buck stops on his desk. The propaganda is for slow witted to suggest that this was holder's program.....hilarious.....when will this nonsense end. I cannot wait to hear people attacking Uncle Bernie with scandal and propaganda when he takes the lead over Hillary.....it will never end and the truth is left behind, but fortunately the other 70% of Americans are not this fricking stupid.......and Bob there is not two sides to the facts.....there is a right answer which these gun running programs were commenced with President Bush....that does not absolve President Obama, but it puts the propaganda in context.

Guest


Guest

Obama and holder claimed repeatedly that the white house had no knowledge of or communication on the running... then claimed executive privilege. How does that work? Lives were lost... criminals were armed... harm was done. Why?

gatorfan



2seaoat wrote:Gun walking was a policy that began under Bush and continued under Obama, until they realized what was going on and shut it down.

You can say that the buck stops on the President's desk, but it is absurd to think that a new President should understand every nuance of every idiotic program the every agency is implementing.


Agree completely.  There was NOBODY in the Obama administration who came in and started gun running.....it is hilarious to see the attempt to make a distinction without a difference between President Bush's program and when President Obama took office.  It is absolute propaganda, but having said that until they shut it down.......it was being operated under the President, and the buck stops on his desk.   The propaganda is for slow witted to suggest that this was holder's program.....hilarious.....when will this nonsense end.   I cannot wait to hear people attacking Uncle Bernie with scandal and propaganda when he takes the lead over Hillary.....it will never end and the truth is left behind, but fortunately the other 70% of Americans are not this fricking stupid.......and Bob there is not two sides to the facts.....there is a right answer which these gun running programs were commenced with President Bush....that does not absolve President Obama, but it puts the propaganda in context.

For the slow witted among us:

Operation Wide Receiver; Bush; 2006-2007

Fast and Furious; Obama; (October) 2009-2011

The Obama DOJ started the F/F program in concert with several other Federal Agencies.

Call it whatever you want or spin it to take the sting of being wrong away but you can’t change reality. These were two distinct programs separated by several years and if the first one was so misguided (it was) why did the Obama administration start the 2nd iteration?????

Sal

Sal

PkrBum wrote:Obama and holder claimed repeatedly that the white house had no knowledge of or communication on the running... then claimed executive privilege. How does that work? Lives were lost... criminals were armed... harm was done. Why?

Before Darrell Issa even assumed the Chair of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, he made no pretense.

His intent was to go after the Obama administration for anything and everything regardless of merit.

Why, oh why, would the Obama administration not willingly participate in his witch hunt??

Why??

Why???

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

The 1987 Iran-Contra scandal proved that historically, Republican presidents also have run guns (to our worst enemies, no less [Iran]).

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

Floridatexan

Floridatexan


http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/09/another-conservative-conspiracy-theory-bites-dust

"...For over a year, it's been an article of faith on the right that Fast and Furious was a carefully constructed scheme directed by the White House to trash the Second Amendment and build support for more gun control laws. It wasn't. Neither the White House nor Eric Holder had any idea what was going on. It was just a local operation that was badly botched. This makes Fast and Furious offically yet another lunatic conservative conspiracy theory that has bitten the dust in the cold light of reality."

**********


http://fortune.com/2012/06/27/the-truth-about-the-fast-and-furious-scandal/


A Fortune investigation reveals that the ATF never intentionally allowed guns to fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels. How the world came to believe just the opposite is a tale of rivalry, murder, and political bloodlust.


"...Quite simply, there’s a fundamental misconception at the heart of the Fast and Furious scandal. Nobody disputes that suspected straw purchasers under surveillance by the ATF repeatedly bought guns that eventually fell into criminal hands. Issa and others charge that the ATF intentionally allowed guns to walk as an operational tactic. But five law-enforcement agents directly involved in Fast and Furious tell Fortune that the ATF had no such tactic. They insist they never purposefully allowed guns to be illegally trafficked. Just the opposite: They say they seized weapons whenever they could but were hamstrung by prosecutors and weak laws, which stymied them at every turn.

Indeed, a six-month Fortune investigation reveals that the public case alleging that Voth and his colleagues walked guns is replete with distortions, errors, partial truths, and even some outright lies. Fortune reviewed more than 2,000 pages of confidential ATF documents and interviewed 39 people, including seven law-enforcement agents with direct knowledge of the case. Several, including Voth, are speaking out for the first time.

How Fast and Furious reached the headlines is a strange and unsettling saga, one that reveals a lot about politics and media today. It’s a story that starts with a grudge, specifically Dodson’s anger at Voth. After the terrible murder of agent Terry, Dodson made complaints that were then amplified, first by right-wing bloggers, then by CBS. Rep. Issa and other politicians then seized those elements to score points against the Obama administration, which, for its part, has capitulated in an apparent effort to avoid a rhetorical battle over gun control in the run-up to the presidential election. (A Justice Department spokesperson denies this and asserts that the department is not drawing conclusions until the inspector general’s report is submitted.)..."

**********

Markle

Markle

Bob wrote:Here's the wikipedia version of events.  It gives the whole thing the name "gunwalking" and has it happening during both the Bush and Obama administrations. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal#2006.E2.80.932008:_Operation_Wide_Receiver_and_other_probes

If you will please pay attention.

There have been allegations of "gunwalking" in at least 10 cities in five states.[30] The most widely known and controversial operations took place in Arizona under the ATF's Phoenix, Arizona field division.
2006–2008: Operation Wide Receiver and other probes[edit]
Operation Wide Receiver[edit]

The suspicious sale of AR-15s led to Operation Wide Receiver.[31]
The first known ATF "gunwalking" operation to Mexican drug cartels, named Operation Wide Receiver, began in early 2006 and ran into late 2007. Licensed dealer Mike Detty of Mad Dawg Global informed the ATF of a suspicious gun purchase that took place in February 2006 in Tucson, Arizona. In March he was hired as a confidential informant working with the ATF's Tucson office, part of their Phoenix, Arizona field division.[31]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal#2006.E2.80.932008:_Operation_Wide_Receiver_and_other_probes

Hard for you to notice but the Bush "Operations Wide Receiver" and "gunwalking operation" ran until late 2007. For the uninformed here, lame-duck President Obama took office in 2009.

President Obama Falsely Claims Fast and Furious Program "Begun Under the Previous Administration"
September 21, 2012
By JAKE TAPPER

Paul Sakuma/AP Photo

Asked about the Fast and Furious program at the Univision forum on Thursday, President Obama falsely claimed that the program began under President George W. Bush.

"I think it's important for us to understand that the Fast and Furious program was a field-initiated program begun under the previous administration," the president said. "When Eric Holder found out about it, he discontinued it. We assigned a inspector general to do a thorough report that was just issued, confirming that in fact Eric Holder did not know about this, that he took prompt action and the people who did initiate this were held accountable."

Get more pure politics at ABCNews.com/Politics and a lighter take on the news at OTUSNews.com

In actuality, the Fast and Furious program was started in October 2009, nine months into the Obama presidency.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/09/president-obama-falsely-claims-fast-and-furious-program-begun-under-the-previous-administration/

For the edification of my Progressive good friends here "falsely claims" really is a PC term for LIED

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Markle,  Markle,  Markle,

Why in the fuck did you direct that at ME?  I'm not the one sitting on the Obama side of the fucking wrastlin ring.

I'm the one who's up on the fence looking down at the wrastlin ring and seeing all the shit BOTH wrastlers have left on the floor of the ring.

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

This thread needs to be bumped into never-never land where all of poster Markle's other propaganda-threads belong and wind up.

Let's not forget that the bar for an administration illegally running guns was set by the Reagan administration way back in 1987. Reagan's folly wasn't about running guns to Mexican drug cartels; he was providing entire weapon systems (including over 2,500 TOW anti-tank missiles) to our 'friends' the Iranians!!!!

And, LtCol Oliver North said he was "just following orders" when the scandal broke......

How dare Reagan give one of our most advanced [at the time] anti-tank missiles to Iran!!!!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

Markle

Markle

Bob wrote:Markle,  Markle,  Markle,

Why in the fuck did you direct that at ME?  I'm not the one sitting on the Obama side of the fucking wrastlin ring.

I'm the one who's up on the fence looking down at the wrastlin ring and seeing all the shit BOTH wrastlers have left on the floor of the ring.

You started the Wiki information. I like to fill out a post with some of the high points.

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