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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » Something is not right with the latest ISIS show.

Something is not right with the latest ISIS show.

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Markle
othershoe1030
ZVUGKTUBM
Wordslinger
2seaoat
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2seaoat



I am no longer buying it. This torture of the Pilot makes NO sense. I am not sure how central the control of ISIS is. I do not understand their chain of command, but if this is an organization which is defined and has a chain of command, their is no rational or logical reason not to have held an ace of spades in reserve.

However, if ISIS is not monolithic, and is poorly defined......who made this decision to to turn the Sunni Tribesman and clerics against ISIS, and have the NEOCONS stomping that we need to introduce ground troops. Something smells here. These run of the mill criminals being exploited by either an ideal, or like every criminal conspiracy money and power. I will in the future refer to this as a criminal enterprise. The question I am now asking.....who is controlling this criminal enterprise and why?

I have my suspicions that there may be more to this than terrorism......I now have a strong feeling that other parties are behind this hollywood production where young idealistic Muslims believe the fantasy and come like rats to the pied piper.......but who is paying the pied piper and why?

2seaoat



It is the same fantasy that Putin is selling to Russia. He creates an external threat and yesterday I heard it reported on Morning Joe that he may be the richest man in the world worth over 600 billion conservatively as he put Oligarchs in cages in courts in 2002 and then like any other common mafiaso he started wetting his beak and everybody knew they had to go along. Yet the perception is that he is a threat to Western Europe....no some things are not what is being played in the media.....and all of the play is encouraging a growing or sustained military.....I am not buying it.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

I saw on tonight's CNN that the purpose of the pilot burning video was the recruitment of foreign fighters.

2seaoat



I saw on tonight's CNN that the purpose of the pilot burning video was the recruitment of foreign fighters.
I have seen that argument, but I believe it is fallacious. It is illogical because of the loss of Muslim recruits.......something is very suspicious with this latest hollywood production. Butchmeup is all worked up and all I am hearing is boots on the ground......President Obama has to resist this stampede which seems orchastrated.......a criminal enterprises means somebody is profiting....follow the money.

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

We were lied to about the intent and power of the Soviet Union throughout the entire length of the Cold War. No doubt we are being lied to about how big a boogeyman the Muslim threat really is.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

2seaoat



They are petty criminals who have hit the big time playing this Islamic State recruitment poster for the bodies necessary to complete the criminal enterprise. I just cannot get the Sunni tribesman angle on this. I always suspected they would dispose of ISIS when they had accomplished their goals, but I think there is more to this. It will take better descriptions of the command structure of this organization. If it is diffuse and not centralized....then I am convinced that the criminal element may be other interest groups than the Sunni tribesmen. Something is not right. How many billions of profit are at stake with an expanded hot war.......the Saudis are building a wall, and something is not right with this latest hollywood production.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

Total chaos and collapse of social order creates situations for criminal types to move in and run things. There is money to be made all around from weapons to oil and then there's the sheer thrill of power and control of territory.

Oil, money, weapons, power. It could be any disgruntled group who is not happy with the events of the last ten or so years since we started mucking around in their backyard.

Markle

Markle

More desperation from the far left Progressives.

Their goal is a feeble attempt to distract attention from the massive failure of semi-retired President Obama and his weak response to terrorism growing daily and getting more vicious.

Now it is blowing up and they are trying to protect their messiah.

2seaoat



Now it is blowing up and they are trying to protect their messiah.


Nothing is blowing up. It is an illusion created by those special interests which want war. ISIS is on the run, and the Hollywood production of vicious brutality to get Butchmeup into a tizzy so that he and John can Chant like Gregorian Monks in unison......American troops.....on the Ground......American troops on the Ground. However, at the height of brutality in Colombia by the Drug cartel, we sent a few military advisors and equipment, but did not put boots on the ground, at the height of the Mexican drug gangs decapitating hundreds, we did not talk about invading another country to go after their criminal element, and finally at the height of the Mafia in Italy, when entire families of Government officials were being blown up in the roads, we did not send troops.

The media is an active partner with this staged production. The only network who posted the entire obscene video on their website was fox news....the same folks who think Frozen is an attack against men, and who continuously attempt to scare America and divide America. In a divided America these same special interest groups can continue to fund the MIC and get their subsidy while wealth goes unfettered into steal mode. Trillions spent in the Middle East while our citizens go without. No this criminal element is not who we think.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Markle wrote:More desperation from the far left Progressives.

Their goal is a feeble attempt to distract attention from the massive failure of semi-retired President Obama and his weak response to terrorism growing daily and getting more vicious.

Now it is blowing up and they are trying to protect their messiah.

Golly gee, with Obama's popularity ratings continually rising lately, I didn't know I was desperate. Could Semi-sane Markle be the one who's getting desperate? Obama's playing this one absolutely correctly -- ISIL is fast becoming a bigger threat to the dictators who run Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Iran and Egypt, than Israel or the United States.

By not leaping in to lead the show against ISIL with all our might and boots on the ground as War Hero, Semi-sane and Butchmeup and Bomber McCain wanted, Obama is handling this mess just the way he should.

Go Barack! Let the Arabs settle their own wars!

Down with Amerika Inc.! Corporate control of our government through campaign financing.

Sal

Sal

2seaoat wrote:Now it is blowing up and they are trying to protect their messiah.


Nothing is blowing up.  It is an illusion created by those special interests which want war.  ISIS is on the run, and the Hollywood production of vicious brutality to get Butchmeup into a tizzy so that he and John can Chant like Gregorian Monks in unison......American troops.....on the Ground......American troops on the Ground.  However, at the height of brutality in Colombia by the Drug cartel, we sent a few military advisors and equipment, but did not put boots on the ground, at the height of the Mexican drug gangs decapitating hundreds, we did not talk about invading another country to go after their criminal element, and finally at the height of the Mafia in Italy, when entire families of Government officials were being blown up in the roads, we did not send troops.

The media is an active partner with this staged production.  The only network who posted the entire obscene video on their website was fox news....the same folks who think Frozen is an attack against men, and who continuously attempt to scare America and divide America.  In a divided America these same special interest groups can continue to fund the MIC and get their subsidy while wealth goes unfettered into steal mode.  Trillions spent in the Middle East while our citizens go without.  No this criminal element is not who we think.

Why don't you spell out precisely what you think is going on here?

Our actions in the Middle East generally and our invasion and occupation of Iraq specifically have inflamed and antagonized the entire region and generations of Muslims.

Young Muslims who are angry and disillusioned are being radicalized and are streaming through Turkey into Syria to support what they have been deluded into thinking is a force for purification against what they see as American corruption and affront against Islam.

Many of these young people are tech and media savvy, and they understand the impact of a strong propaganda campaign utilizing the internet.

The more barbarous and savage an act they can display, the more eyes they draw to their cause.

Of course, in reality they are being manipulated by people with the greediest and most evil intent.

They are certainly no existential threat to the United States, but they are doing great harm to the innocent people of the region and to Islam as a religion.

It goes without saying that the MIC is more than eager to endorse them as the greatest threat ever known to mankind in order to fill their coffers.

It's certainly a symbiotic relationship, but if you can point to an even more concrete relationship, I'd like to see it.

2seaoat



My suspicions began months ago with the silence of the Israelis. When ISIS was literally miles from the Israeli border.....the great devil.....there was not one attempt to lob mortars or rockets into Israel. The Israelis have been very successful in infiltrating opposition groups in the Middle East. The biggest benefactor of Middle East Chaos in former militarized adjacent nation states has been Israel. When discussions are talking about cutting down their military aid, suddenly ISIS appears destabalizing further Syria who in the 1973 war came within 24 hours of flooding their tanks down from the Golan Heights across Israel, but for a massive airlift of American replacement tanks on both fronts, the Egyptians and Syrians may have won that war.

So Egypt erupts, and their military with close ties to America rules, Syria and Iraq are in Chaos, and the most stable regime in the middle east is being drawn into the chaos. The second candidate is the Saudis who in the process of supporting Sunni interests and containing the influence of the Iranians may be the money source along with other Arab peninsula contributors......again the more diffuse the organization of ISIS the more opportunities their are for agents to be used to further the criminal enterprise. Something is not right. It will take years before we find the answers, and books will be written, but in the meantime, it is essential that President Obama extract us from the Middle East and stand firm in his resistance to boots on the ground.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

It doesn't matter to these Isis folk if half of Americans worship George Bush and despises Barack Obama.  Or the other half worships Barack Obama and despises George Bush.  It's not relevant to Isis or Al Qaeda or the Muslim Brotherhood or any wahabist or jihadist.

One thing is just seemingly impossible for most Americans to comprehend.
Because Americans have never experienced it.
These people see their homeland being invaded by an enemy culture they are both afraid of and despise.  A culture they perceive to be almost satanic in nature.

That's what drives them to these extremes.  It would be no different if the roles were reversed and a muslim superpower had invaded our homeland and was trying to force it's culture down our throats.  Our heroes would become those amongst us who fight back with every kind of terrorism they can muster. I'd be trying to set them on fire too.

It's really not some big mystery which has to give rise to conspiracy theories. lol

2seaoat



It's really not some big mystery which has to give rise to conspiracy theories. lol


I would agree with all your observations of the hate which is exploited to recruit pawns to this criminal enterprise. No argument as to the pawns motivations. However, to think this was just some spontaneous uprising is foolish. First, the Syrian Civil war......act one. Who had the most to gain from the Syrian government tumbling:

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/The-Region-How-the-Syrian-civil-war-really-affects-Israel-321316

Act two......the Saudis and other Sunnis like the funding of Al Queda get money to the Sunni opposition in Iraq and in the process indirectly attack Iran. While T and others fool around with how buildings collapsed, the slight of hand of the truthers and conspiracy theories directly ignores the known conspiracy of Al Queda did it and who was backing them. Now, here we are again......having an event which requires a response, which requires expensive military arms and weapons.....indefinitely because again....these ISIS fighters can disappear in the population take their fifty caliber mount off the bed of their Toyota, and start planting bombs.......a traditional military response is ineffective and has been proven to be, but a real political solution is the ONLY answer. The theatrics of the random ugly violence and terror is the recruiting poster for every sick criminal who wants to get a pay check, have sex, blow things up, and do it all for the very things you outlined. Nope this is a criminal conspiracy which to be countered must first be understood. Boots on the ground and American involvement is absolutely critical to the accomplishment of the criminal enterprise. It is not yet known how the players were deployed, but the beneficiaries are known, and surprise surprise.....they are the same folks who benefited from the 911 attack......this is not about controlled demolition......it is about how this criminal enterprise is organized and who is benefiting.

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

2seaoat wrote:My suspicions began months ago with the silence of the Israelis.  When ISIS was literally miles from the Israeli border.....the great devil.....there was not one attempt to lob mortars or rockets into Israel.  The Israelis have been very successful in infiltrating opposition groups in the Middle East.  The biggest benefactor of Middle East Chaos in former militarized adjacent nation states has been Israel.  When discussions are talking about cutting down their military aid, suddenly ISIS appears destabalizing further Syria who in the 1973 war came within 24 hours of flooding their tanks down from the Golan Heights across Israel, but for a massive airlift of American replacement tanks on both fronts, the Egyptians and Syrians may have won that war.

So Egypt erupts, and their military with close ties to America rules, Syria and Iraq are in Chaos, and the most stable regime in the middle east is being drawn into the chaos.  The second candidate is the Saudis who in the process of supporting Sunni interests and containing the influence of the Iranians may be the money source along with other Arab peninsula contributors......again the more diffuse the organization of ISIS the more opportunities their are for agents to be used to further the criminal enterprise.  Something is not right.  It will take years before we find the answers, and books will be written, but in the meantime, it is essential that President Obama extract us from the Middle East and stand firm in his resistance to boots on the ground.

It seems to me by what you are suggesting--Israel may be playing everyone as a sucker, including the U.S. (now why would they do that to their "most faithful ally"?).

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

Sal

Sal

Well, I certainly won't contest the fact that ISIS has mutated into its current monstrous form largely with funding from the House of Saud.

And, I also won't quibble with the fact that ISIS is in some ways very useful to Israel in that, one they are attacking the Assad regime who is allied with Israel's favorite bogeyman Iran, and two they fill the role of scary, scary Muslim which always fills Israel's coffers with American money and armaments.

Beyond those connection, I think your thoughts are flights of fancy.

First of all, Syria was hardly the first act of this sordid affair.

The group that currently heads ISIS tried to upend the Jordanian monarchy in 2002, but they were beat down pretty good by Jordan’s Bedouin security.

New life was breathed into them in 2003 when Bush and Cheney decided that destabilizing the entire region might be a fun lark.

They've been flowing into power vacuums up and down the Euphrates River ever since.

gatorfan



ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
2seaoat wrote:When ISIS was literally miles from the Israeli border.....the great devil.....there was not one attempt to lob mortars or rockets into Israel.  .

It seems to me by what you are suggesting--Israel may be playing everyone as a sucker, including the U.S. (now why would they do that to their "most faithful ally"?).

2SO is turning into another conspiracy theorist. The facts are: Israeli demographics and their political system are not conducive to supporting ISIS tactics, ISIS doesn’t have anywhere near the military capability that would be necessary to damage Israel, various other belligerent factions around the Golan Heights that “support” ISIS are very small and no real threat, ISIS can’t even control what areas they have now, ISIS peed on the wrong tree with Jordan and now faces a real threat of annihilation.

2SO’s vapid analysis of the situation smacks of anti-semetic bigotry, quite a surprise since he is the first one to throw a race card regardless of the conversation.

The only part of 2SO's bloviating that makes sense is the allusion to vacating the M/E.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

2seaoat wrote:

Act two......the Saudis and other Sunnis like the funding of Al Queda get money to the Sunni opposition in Iraq and in the process indirectly attack Iran.

I would add to this what we've already talked about in prior threads. That former Sen Bob Graham and others have been desperately trying to make it so the American public is made aware of the Saudi government's role in financing the 9/11 hijackers. But so far that has received little traction in the dominant mass media.

2seaoat



No, I am a strong supporter of Israel. Always have been, but you only need to go back a year and a half ago butchmeup and John were going directly to the Saudis seeking Saudi money to fund Sunni insurgents against the Syrian Government. If anybody thinks the Syrian nation state and the Egyptian nation state were not a threat to Israel, please go to Wiki and read about the 1973 middle east war. These Sunni groups have morphed into the ISIS movement. However, it is not the obvious advantage Israel enjoys with Chaos which explains the motivations behind the criminal enterprise.....trillions can be made over the next twenty years in war and war requires a perception of threat......slick hollywood productions help accomplish what the MIC could not achieve with the usual Butchmeup hissy fits, it is easier showing people being beheaded and burned alive. No this rush to put boots on the ground must be met with much resistance and caution. We need to better understand the motivations of the criminal enterprise. Nothing is racist about understanding geopolitics and discovering who benefits from a criminal enterprise.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

Someone needs to take a long hard look at private military contractors...Blackwater/Xe/Academi and Craft International (Chris Kyle's company, before his demise).

Follow the money. And, no, Seaoat, Al Queda as the 9/11 attacker is not "settled".

I would also like to see McCain's and Graham's financial ties to said industries. Remember when McCain went to Syria and met with the "rebels"?

And of course, the big 3 clandestine organizations: CIA, MI6, and the Mossad.

http://www.your-poc.com/academi-triple-canopy-5-companies-merge-forming-largest-high-threat-security-group-world/

("POC" is Professional Overseas Contractors)

Academi, Triple Canopy and 5 other Companies Merge forming the Largest High Threat Security Group in the World

Post Date: June 13, 2014 | Category: Around the World, The Danger Zone - See more at: http://www.your-poc.com/academi-triple-canopy-5-companies-merge-forming-largest-high-threat-security-group-world/#sthash.KE6ZDOYM.dpuf

"A press release from Constellis Holdings signals major news in the High Threat Security Industry. Academi, the company formerly known as Blackwater and Xe, will join Triple Canopy along with a handful of other high threat security companies under a new management structure named Constellis Holdings.

“This move allows us to create a suite of services to better provide critical support capabilities for government and commercial clients and will utilize ACADEMI’s world-class training facility, the largest and most comprehensive private training center in the U.S.” said Jason DeYonker, Managing Director of Constellis Holdings, Inc.


Constellis Holdings, Inc. has agreed to acquire Constellis Group, Inc., a leading provider of security, support and advisory services to government, multinational corporations and international organizations operating in challenging environments around the world. Constellis Holdings was formed by the founders of Triple Canopy and the private equity investors who formed ACADEMI.

The transaction brings together a global team of industry leaders, including: Triple Canopy, Constellis Ltd., Strategic Social, Tidewater Global Services, National Strategic Protective Services, ACADEMI Training Center and International Development Solutions.

Operating under the oversight of a distinguished Board and an experienced management team, the combination of these companies will enable a significant expansion of services within the global security market, delivering mission support, integrated security solutions, training and advisory services at home and abroad..."

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Floridatexan wrote: no, Seaoat, Al Queda as the 9/11 attacker is not "settled".

If not Bin Laden,  Zawahiri, and Sheik Mohammed etc.,  who do you think actually orchestrated the attacks on 9/11?  
Do you believe it was "false flag" operation of the Bush/Cheney administration and the "neocons"?
Do you believe it was higher ups within the "military industrial complex"?
Or do you believe it was forces within the CIA,  MI6 and the Mossad?
The Bilderbergers?
The Illuminatti?
Aliens from outer space?
The Zionists?
Who exactly?



Last edited by Bob on 2/5/2015, 2:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

2seaoat



Yes settled. The question is exactly the same as 911.....who were the money contributors to Al Queda, and what was the quid pro quo. The criminal enterprise is following the same blueprint which resulted in a decade and five trillion dollars flushed down the toilet. America cannot be manipulated, or allow us to be scared into foolish military actions. Caution, assessment, and a coalition which puts other nations in the game. Our Arab allies are now complaining that their pilots need to be protected, yet we are exposing our pilots to risk and are flying 90% of the sorties. Sorry, this starts with Saudi Arabia money, and all those who protect them....and Israel is a benefactor of this chaos and certainly have their hands all over Syria and the Civil war. The provocations will be increased with bigger and more obscene Hollywood productions.

gatorfan



2seaoat wrote:Yes settled.  The question is exactly the same as 911.....who were the money contributors to Al Queda, and what was the quid pro quo.   The criminal enterprise is following the same blueprint which resulted in a decade and five trillion dollars flushed down the toilet.  America cannot be manipulated, or allow us to be scared into foolish military actions.   Caution, assessment, and a coalition which puts other nations in the game.   Our Arab allies are now complaining that their pilots need to be protected, yet we are exposing our pilots to risk and are flying 90% of the sorties.   Sorry, this starts with Saudi Arabia money, and all those who protect them....and Israel is a benefactor of this chaos and certainly have their hands all over Syria and the Civil war.  The provocations will be increased with bigger and more obscene Hollywood productions.

LOL!

Something is not right with the latest ISIS show. TinFoilHatAreaOnly

Sal

Sal

Bob wrote:
2seaoat wrote:

Act two......the Saudis and other Sunnis like the funding of Al Queda get money to the Sunni opposition in Iraq and in the process indirectly attack Iran.

I would add to this what we've already talked about in prior threads.  That former Sen Bob Graham and others have been desperately trying to make it so the American public is made aware of the Saudi government's role in financing the 9/11 hijackers.  But so far that has received little traction in the dominant mass media.


It hasn't received enough traction because 28 pages of evidence detailing Saudi Arabia's involvement in the attack on the United States were redacted from the Senate report.

Zacharias Moussaoui seems very credible in this regard ....

Mr. Moussaoui's testimony, if judged credible, provides new details of the extent and nature of that support in the pre-9/11 period. In more than 100 pages of testimony, filed in federal court in New York on Monday, he comes across as calm and largely coherent, though the plaintiffs' lawyers questioning him do not challenge his statements.

The French-born Mr. Moussaoui was detained weeks before Sept. 11 on immigration charges in Minnesota, so he was incarcerated at the time of the attacks. Earlier in 2001, he had taken flying lessons and was wired $14,000 by a Qaeda cell in Germany, evidence that he might have been preparing to become one of the hijackers. He said in the prison deposition that he was directed in 1998 or 1999 by Qaeda leaders in Afghanistan to create a digital database of donors to the group. Among those he said he recalled listing in the database were Prince Turki al-Faisal, then the Saudi intelligence chief; Prince Bandar Bin Sultan, the longtime Saudi ambassador to the United States; Prince al-Waleed bin Talal, a prominent billionaire investor; and many of the country's leading clerics. "Sheikh Osama wanted to keep a record who give money," he said in imperfect English - "who is to be listened to or who contributed to the jihad."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/04/us/zacarias-moussaoui-calls-saudi-princes-patrons-of-al-qaeda.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region%C2%AEion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=1

If and when those 28 pages are opened to scrutiny, I think they will confirm what he said.

If that damages our relationship with Saudi Arabia and opens them to huge settlements from the victims' families, all the better.

gatorfan



The Saudi connection to terrorist groups including Al Qeada is well known, Washington has been winking at the problem for many years. Wouldn't want to offend them now would we? The Taliban learned their form of Islam in Saudi financed radical Madrassas so it's not like a new problem.

Yes, it would be nice for a change if a full report ON SOMETHING were released.

Most transparent administration my aching ass.

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