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A battle is emerging in Congress. Obama is set to defend the middle class against the Republican agenda.

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Vikingwoman
KarlRove
Wordslinger
Hospital Bob
Sal
gatorfan
boards of FL
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boards of FL

boards of FL

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/congress-gears-fight-obama-tax-110000806.html


So as the middle class is evaporating every day, and as corporate profits are breaking records every quarter, what ideas does each party have to offer us?

Republicans:  Make tax extenders permanent for corporations while letting middle class tax cuts expire.

Obama:  Veto any bill that does not extend current tax benefits for working class families.


Let's be serious here for a second.  Exactly how dumb does one have to be to support the republican side on this?  We have two entities:  Corporations and working families.  One is doing better than ever while one is hurting.  Republicans feel the best course of action is to provide aid to the corporate world and revoke aid to working families.  Note that I am not exaggerating this here.  This is the fight that is shaping up.  

Can any of our forum republicans defend this or at least explain the rationale behind such a policy?


Congress Gears Up to Fight Obama on Tax Breaks

After Republicans won control of the new Congress that will be seated in January, it quickly became clear that the next two years would be marked by conflict between GOP lawmakers and a Democratic president. But not many people expected a full-scale showdown to start taking shape before Thanksgiving.

That, however, appears to be exactly what’s coming as the House and Senate negotiate over a bill to renew various tax breaks that expired at the end of 2013.

The breaks are generally referred to as “tax extenders” because for years they have been passed as temporary extensions of various tax breaks rather than codified as permanent law. They include a “Research and Experimentation” deduction for corporations, investment deductions for small businesses, deductions for charitable contributions made by companies, and dozens of other smaller, targeted breaks for businesses. At the individual level, they include deductions for state and local sales taxes, as well as expansions of the Earned Income Tax Credit and the Child Tax Credit both of which are scheduled to expire in 2017.

Many of the extenders need to be renewed before the end of the year, and made retroactive, if they are to apply to tax returns filed for 2014. Over the past several days, details have been leaking out about a proposed deal between Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) and representatives of House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH).

Those details, while generally positive for the GOP, have both Democrats and non-partisan budget hawks furious.

Multiple media reports Tuesday suggested that the shape of the deal being considered would make a number of the largest business breaks, including the R&D credit, the charity deduction, and others, permanent. The big Democratic priorities, particularly the EITC and Child Tax Credit provisions, would still be allowed to expire in two years. The estimated cost of the deal is between $440 billion and $500 billion over 10 years, and crucially, is not paid for by any budget offsets or tax increases.

White House Deputy Press Secretary Jen Friedman on Tuesday said that the president would veto a bill that made the corporate tax breaks permanent without breaks for middle- and lower-income taxpayers. “The president would veto the proposed deal because it would provide permanent tax breaks to help well-connected corporations while neglecting working families,” she said.

Democratic-leaning activists complained that Reid appeared to be giving up key bargaining chips by allowing the business-friendly tax breaks to be made permanent while agreeing to allow the EITC and child tax credit to expire as scheduled.

The tax extenders have always moved as a group because while the measures contain things both sides hate, they collectively also offer the legislative sugar both sides need to get a deal done. Democrats worry that by giving away things like the R&D tax credit, and small business tax breaks, they will have little leverage with Republicans when the EITC and child credit expire in two years.

“It’s totally tilted toward the priorities of House Republicans,” said a senior Democratic congressional aide. “You’re going to see a lot of opposition to this.”

The degree of opposition among congressional Democrats is actually a key factor in the debate because of the president’s veto threat. People familiar with the negotiations say that both sides are discussing additions to the bill that would sweeten the deal enough for Democrats to support overriding a presidential veto.

The prospect of such a deal was little comfort to deficit hawks like Maya MacGuineas, president of the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, who also pointed out that the White House’s veto threat seemed to hinge on President Obama’s preferred tax extenders being made permanent rather than being rooted in concerns about adding to the debt and deficit.

“This throws fiscal responsibility completely out the window,” said MacGuineas. “It looks like it’s just a combination of every side asking for and getting what they want in terms of making tax breaks permanent, without a minute’s thought given to how to pay for them.”

People familiar with the debate say that Boehner is willing to bring a bill to the floor as early as next week.

Update:  This story was corrected at 11:45 a.m. on Wednesday morning to indicate that the EITC and child tax credit extensions are not scheduled to expire until 2017.


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gatorfan



"proposed deal between Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) and representatives of House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH)"

I guess Harry Reid is now a Republican. You can't be objective about anything.

boards of FL

boards of FL

gatorfan wrote:"proposed deal between Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) and representatives of House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH)"

I guess Harry Reid is now a Republican. You can't be objective about anything.


Continue reading.


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boards of FL

boards of FL

gatorfan wrote:"proposed deal between Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) and representatives of House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH)"

I guess Harry Reid is now a Republican. You can't be objective about anything.


Actually, I have a question for you. Let's forget political parties for a second and just look at the issue at hand objectively: Tax extenders.

What do you feel should be done with these? An emerging idea is that a bill will pass that extends these tax breaks for corporations but allows them to expire for working families.

Here again, lets forget parties for a second. Do you - gatorfan - consider that to be a good policy idea?


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Sal

Sal

Another handout to the corporatists while screwing the poor and middle class, moving in the wrong direction on energy policy, with none of it being offset, so later on Repukes will have a pretext to pretend to be fiscal conservatives while they howl for more cuts to the safety net.

Harry Reid is a worthless POS.

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Actually, I have a question for you.  Let's forget political parties for a second and just look at the issue at hand objectively:  Tax extenders.

What do you feel should be done with these?  An emerging idea is that a bill will pass that extends these tax breaks for corporations but allows them to expire for working families.

Here again, lets forget parties for a second.  Do you - gatorfan - consider that to be a good policy idea?[/quote]

It's doubtful that the current do-nothing, cowardly Congress will get much accomplished on these 50-odd tax provisions.  I believe they are loathe to make them permanent because they would have to be counted in the budget - and therefore they'd have to find a way to pay for them.  If left "off budget", they simply add to the debt (which continues to rise).

In reality, only about 17% of them even pertain to individuals, the balance being between businesses and Energy, which comprise about 2/3 of the total cost of all the extensions.

boards of FL

boards of FL

colaguy wrote:It's doubtful that the current do-nothing, cowardly Congress will get much accomplished on these 50-odd tax provisions.  I believe they are loathe to make them permanent because they would have to be counted in the budget - and therefore they'd have to find a way to pay for them.  If left "off budget", they simply add to the debt (which continues to rise).

In reality, only about 17% of them even pertain to individuals, the balance being between businesses and Energy, which comprise about 2/3 of the total cost of all the extensions.


So let's say you have a magic wand and can do whatever you want. You see the issue of tax extenders. Some help big business, some help working families. What would you do?


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boards of FL wrote:
colaguy wrote:It's doubtful that the current do-nothing, cowardly Congress will get much accomplished on these 50-odd tax provisions.  I believe they are loathe to make them permanent because they would have to be counted in the budget - and therefore they'd have to find a way to pay for them.  If left "off budget", they simply add to the debt (which continues to rise).

In reality, only about 17% of them even pertain to individuals, the balance being between businesses and Energy, which comprise about 2/3 of the total cost of all the extensions.


So let's say you have a magic wand and can do whatever you want.  You see the issue of tax extenders.  Some help big business, some help working families.  What would you do?

Honestly, I don't know.  I do not consider myself an Economics/Budget expert, and do not pretend to know the intricacies of our current system.

That said, I believe much of where we are today is the result of social engineering - some good , some not so good.  I do believe that it would be better for the country to have a big tax overhaul - sort of clean out the cobwebs from the attic.  
While I do not believe in willy-nilly tax increases (such as raising anyone's federal tax rate) I now believe that certain issues need to be addressed with increasing taxes.  Just this past Sunday 60 Minutes ran a piece on our crumbling roads and bridges - something that's been bothering me for years.  We (Congress) know that it's getting worse, but we (Congress) continue to kick the can down the road (cowards that they are).  Much like the looming SS crisis, the Congress fails to address the need to act.  So, now, I am of the mind that it is time to increase the federal fuel tax (which hasn't been raised since the 90s), as long as we can keep Congress' greedy grubby hands off the revenue,  and have it used for the purpose intended.

That doesn't address our entire tax system, I know - but it's at least a start.
 

boards of FL

boards of FL

colaguy wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
colaguy wrote:It's doubtful that the current do-nothing, cowardly Congress will get much accomplished on these 50-odd tax provisions.  I believe they are loathe to make them permanent because they would have to be counted in the budget - and therefore they'd have to find a way to pay for them.  If left "off budget", they simply add to the debt (which continues to rise).

In reality, only about 17% of them even pertain to individuals, the balance being between businesses and Energy, which comprise about 2/3 of the total cost of all the extensions.


So let's say you have a magic wand and can do whatever you want.  You see the issue of tax extenders.  Some help big business, some help working families.  What would you do?

Honestly, I don't know.  I do not consider myself an Economics/Budget expert, and do not pretend to know the intricacies of our current system.

That said, I believe much of where we are today is the result of social engineering - some good , some not so good.  I do believe that it would be better for the country to have a big tax overhaul - sort of clean out the cobwebs from the attic.  
While I do not believe in willy-nilly tax increases (such as raising anyone's federal tax rate) I now believe that certain issues need to be addressed with increasing taxes.  Just this past Sunday 60 Minutes ran a piece on our crumbling roads and bridges - something that's been bothering me for years.  We (Congress) know that it's getting worse, but we (Congress) continue to kick the can down the road (cowards that they are).  Much like the looming SS crisis, the Congress fails to address the need to act.  So, now, I am of the mind that it is time to increase the federal fuel tax (which hasn't been raised since the 90s), as long as we can keep Congress' greedy grubby hands off the revenue,  and have it used for the purpose intended.

That doesn't address our entire tax system, I know - but it's at least a start.
 


The question was about tax extenders.  Some of these benefit the corporate world. Some benefit working families and the middle class.

Corporate profits are breaking new records every quarter.  The middle class is evaporating daily.

I don't think one would need an advanced degree in economics to see that making the corporate cuts permanent while letting the middle class cuts expire is bad policy.


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boards of FL wrote:
colaguy wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
colaguy wrote:It's doubtful that the current do-nothing, cowardly Congress will get much accomplished on these 50-odd tax provisions.  I believe they are loathe to make them permanent because they would have to be counted in the budget - and therefore they'd have to find a way to pay for them.  If left "off budget", they simply add to the debt (which continues to rise).

In reality, only about 17% of them even pertain to individuals, the balance being between businesses and Energy, which comprise about 2/3 of the total cost of all the extensions.


So let's say you have a magic wand and can do whatever you want.  You see the issue of tax extenders.  Some help big business, some help working families.  What would you do?

Honestly, I don't know.  I do not consider myself an Economics/Budget expert, and do not pretend to know the intricacies of our current system.

That said, I believe much of where we are today is the result of social engineering - some good , some not so good.  I do believe that it would be better for the country to have a big tax overhaul - sort of clean out the cobwebs from the attic.  
While I do not believe in willy-nilly tax increases (such as raising anyone's federal tax rate) I now believe that certain issues need to be addressed with increasing taxes.  Just this past Sunday 60 Minutes ran a piece on our crumbling roads and bridges - something that's been bothering me for years.  We (Congress) know that it's getting worse, but we (Congress) continue to kick the can down the road (cowards that they are).  Much like the looming SS crisis, the Congress fails to address the need to act.  So, now, I am of the mind that it is time to increase the federal fuel tax (which hasn't been raised since the 90s), as long as we can keep Congress' greedy grubby hands off the revenue,  and have it used for the purpose intended.

That doesn't address our entire tax system, I know - but it's at least a start.
 


The question was about tax extenders.  Some of these benefit the corporate world. Some benefit working families and the middle class.

Corporate profits are breaking new records every quarter.  The middle class is evaporating daily.

I don't think one would need an advanced degree in economics to see that making the corporate cuts permanent while letting the middle class cuts expire is bad policy.

Here's a list of common tax extenders for individuals:



  • Sales Tax Deduction – for those in the 7 states that have no state income tax
    Charitable Donations from an IRA – for those 70 ½ and older
    Tuition and Fees Deduction
    Educators' Out-of-Pocket Expenses – teachers can deduct up to $250/year
    Parity for Commuter Transit Benefit
    Mortgage Debt Forgiveness



Remember, these individual tax extenders represent only about 17%, or about $6B of all the tax extenders. The rest are for business or Energy, and these are written mostly for the businesses, with employees in mind - such as the credit for health insurance costs provided to eligible employees, wage credit for activated military reservists, work opportunity tax credit. Or, targeting certain classes, such as the accelerated depreciation for business
property on an Indian reservation.  You can see that these are not designed in a way that big-bad-business gets the goodies and screws over the "working middle class".

Given that the dollar amounts are relatively small for the "individual" tax extenders, I would think that it's a no-brainer to extend them - or better yet - make them permanent.

boards of FL

boards of FL

colaguy wrote:Given that the dollar amounts are relatively small for the "individual" tax extenders, I would think that it's a no-brainer to extend them - or better yet - make them permanent.


Then we agree, somewhat.  The individual extenders should simply be made permanent.

Regarding the corporate extenders - and given the fact that corporate profits are breaking records each quarter - it is time to let them expire.  

Do this, and I suspect we will have a balanced budget, if not a surplus, by 2017.


A battle is emerging in Congress.  Obama is set to defend the middle class against the Republican agenda. Tkvbt7C


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boards of FL wrote:
colaguy wrote:Given that the dollar amounts are relatively small for the "individual" tax extenders, I would think that it's a no-brainer to extend them - or better yet - make them permanent.


Then we agree, somewhat.  The individual extenders should simply be made permanent.

Regarding the corporate extenders - and given the fact that corporate profits are breaking records each quarter - it is time to let them expire.  

"Do this, and I suspect we will have a balanced budget, if not a surplus, by 2017."

Doubtful, considering that a one-year extension of ALL the "business" tax extenders amounts to a paltry $20B.  

A permanent extension of theses "business" tax extenders amounts to $310B, the elimination of which still doesn't fix the annual budget deficit - let alone the $18T total debt.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

If it is simple as corporations vs working families, I would choose working families.

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Guest

boards of FL wrote:
colaguy wrote:It's doubtful that the current do-nothing, cowardly Congress will get much accomplished on these 50-odd tax provisions.  I believe they are loathe to make them permanent because they would have to be counted in the budget - and therefore they'd have to find a way to pay for them.  If left "off budget", they simply add to the debt (which continues to rise).

In reality, only about 17% of them even pertain to individuals, the balance being between businesses and Energy, which comprise about 2/3 of the total cost of all the extensions.


So let's say you have a magic wand and can do whatever you want. You see the issue of tax extenders. Some help big business, some help working families. What would you do?

Agree to a democratic vote... and then nullify the results if they don't go your way?

Sal

Sal

PkrBum wrote:

Agree to a democratic vote... and then nullify the results if they don't go your way?

A battle is emerging in Congress.  Obama is set to defend the middle class against the Republican agenda. 1333696666625

Guest


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Awww... gonna help pedro stay president?

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Obama is out to destroy the republican party and is using their flawed policies for ammo.

The voters will push for middle-class relief and will be opposed directly by the republicans who are totally owned by the ultra rich and bloodsucking corporations.

Go Barack Hussein Obama!

Because they are the white party of NO the republicans can't possibly agree to anything that Obama puts up.

Obama is a hawk masquerading as a lame duck. LOL

boards of FL

boards of FL

PkrBum wrote:Awww... gonna help pedro stay president?

Don't you at least find it a tad bit odd that you have such strong anti-government convictions, but when it's time to explain why that is, exactly, words always seem to fail you?

And now you're projecting - outsourcing - this internal butt hurt onto the concept that you staged a mutiny but didn't get your way.  Sal is right.  You're clearly frustrated by the fact that you can't express your political point of view more coherently than a vague one liner.  Rather than face reality, you're using this failed mutiny as a way of compartmentalizing your incompetence.  

"I'll just put this over there.  Problem solved."

As your psychologist, I have to tell you that this is unhealthy.


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You lied and broke an agreement... that is on you. That is who you are... that is your nature.

Anything else you say except an apology is empty.

boards of FL

boards of FL

PkrBum wrote:You lied and broke an agreement... that is on you. That is who you are... that is your nature.

Anything else you say except an apology is empty.


Actually, most of what I say on this forum is chalk full of substance. On the other hand, most of what you say is a vague one liner that could apply to almost anything. You, sir, are the very definition of empty. And that is truly the underlying problem for you here.

It's really bizarre how you're using this whole mutiny thing to try and reverse the roles - in your mind at least.


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Sal

Sal

Mutiny is the correct term.

With the exception of a handful of fellow malcontents, the forum participants either ignored or ridiculed Pkr's exercise in failure.

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boards of FL wrote:
PkrBum wrote:You lied and broke an agreement... that is on you. That is who you are... that is your nature.

Anything else you say except an apology is empty.


Actually, most of what I say on this forum is chalk full of substance. On the other hand, most of what you say is a vague one liner that could apply to almost anything. You, sir, are the very definition of empty. And that is truly the underlying problem for you here.

It's really bizarre how you're using this whole mutiny thing to try and reverse the roles - in your mind at least.

There's nothing to reverse. You're a liar and a punk... you've proved that clearly to all that are objective and have ethics.

Guest


Guest

boards of FL wrote:
PkrBum wrote:You lied and broke an agreement... that is on you. That is who you are... that is your nature.

Anything else you say except an apology is empty.


Actually, most of what I say on this forum is chalk full of substance.  On the other hand, most of what you say is a vague one liner that could apply to almost anything.  You, sir, are the very definition of empty.  And that is truly the underlying problem for you here.

It's really bizarre how you're using this whole mutiny thing to try and reverse the roles - in your mind at least.

A battle is emerging in Congress.  Obama is set to defend the middle class against the Republican agenda. Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQWRujawJ6Ocj-Sy3Q_B9kZTMQLWX2rXGyZQ6oXO-izsliYEHFQBg

Yes we all know what that substance is...

*****LMAO*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rpq6u8hYgk

Laughing

boards of FL

boards of FL

I'll be getting off here.

(Exits elevator)


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boards of FL wrote:I'll be getting off here.

(Exits elevator)

A battle is emerging in Congress.  Obama is set to defend the middle class against the Republican agenda. Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQVRH32hMoF_B9QUiz6vfYF6ywL93KkOlrMuF4SVVJZXSt5BDss

If you take the fruit cake and insert it in a certain part of your anatomy it wouldn't smell like it does in here.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srHM2sIll68

Smile

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