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Our environment is beginning to collapse......we need to set new priorities
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ZVUGKTUBM
2seaoat
6 posters
Message [Page 1 of 1]
1 Our environment is beginning to collapse......we need to set new priorities 8/3/2014, 9:43 pm
2seaoat
2 Re: Our environment is beginning to collapse......we need to set new priorities 8/3/2014, 10:01 pm
2seaoat
Drinking the water could cause vomiting, cramps and rashes. Health officials advised children and those with weak immune systems to avoid showering or bathing in the water.
Hallmark.....you want to blame local politicians, but the national parties and the interest groups they represent have all but neutered environmental protections. Across America coal plants are spewing mercury while Mr. Markle and his shills make the environment seem like it has no downside, and that environmental folks are Nazis who want to strip freedom, but the truth is the cumulative pollution and unknown toxins are killing us........it matters what is happening on the national level.
Hallmark.....you want to blame local politicians, but the national parties and the interest groups they represent have all but neutered environmental protections. Across America coal plants are spewing mercury while Mr. Markle and his shills make the environment seem like it has no downside, and that environmental folks are Nazis who want to strip freedom, but the truth is the cumulative pollution and unknown toxins are killing us........it matters what is happening on the national level.
3 Re: Our environment is beginning to collapse......we need to set new priorities 8/3/2014, 10:26 pm
Guest
Guest
The paper mill has killed Perdido bay. The politicians stand by and watch. They have been neutered. For over 25 years I worked on Bayou chico and gained first hand knowledge of the toxic poisons in the water. But is not a popular topic. No one gives a shit. The downtown people and others do not have work in it. Remember, we are crude people with an inferiority complex. Pensacola Bay used to have a very active fishery. Now it is dead. All the local bay shrimp boats are gone. The bay is in disrepair. But you can get a good view of it from Studerville LOL.. The locals tired to be good stewards but have been forced out by the lack of docking space and affordable housing. It is a pattern that is repeated all over the area. To many of us the results were obvious. Now it is breaking news. Grab another jug of Olive Oil and a Hot dog. Nothing to worry about...The multiplier effect will solve all the issues...
4 Re: Our environment is beginning to collapse......we need to set new priorities 8/3/2014, 10:35 pm
2seaoat
If you think the locals could have stopped the killing of the bay....you are wrong. That is the state of Florida and the EPA which has been attacked and compromised. You want to blame the downtown crowd, and I suppose the folks in Dayton want to blame their downtown crowd, but the reality is that we all collectively have lived our lives without worrying about the next generation, but at least you have a convenient scapegoat....the downtown crowd. The fact is that we have discounted labor and made capital supreme, and the result is we have all become disposable. Americans might as well be working in Qatar for thirty cents an hour.........the solutions are not local, they are state and national, and the propaganda has put our nation to sleep.
5 Re: Our environment is beginning to collapse......we need to set new priorities 8/4/2014, 9:10 am
Guest
Guest
2seaoat wrote:If you think the locals could have stopped the killing of the bay....you are wrong. That is the state of Florida and the EPA which has been attacked and compromised. You want to blame the downtown crowd, and I suppose the folks in Dayton want to blame their downtown crowd, but the reality is that we all collectively have lived our lives without worrying about the next generation, but at least you have a convenient scapegoat....the downtown crowd. The fact is that we have discounted labor and made capital supreme, and the result is we have all become disposable. Americans might as well be working in Qatar for thirty cents an hour.........the solutions are not local, they are state and national, and the propaganda has put our nation to sleep.
What a false statement. I grew up in Pensacola at a time when fish kills were occurring in Escambia river and the issues with Perdido River/Bay were in the news. We had great reporting and Earl J. Bowden was onto the polluters. The people did care about, not only the next generation, but our waterways and their impact on our lives. High school students (9th grade geography class) took a field trip to Palafox in the area where the scrap metal processing plant stands and interviewed business owners about how they could clean up their areas. There was a fertilizer plant there. The area was a huge eyesore not to mention hazardous. A creosote business was eventually dismantled through Super Fund money. (much later) I have to think that ideas discussed and acted upon in the 1970s in that area alone brought about change. We were aware as teens and I do think great changes have come about for our children.
This new found scientific love for the environment is about money, research, and political power.
People like Earl J. Bowden made a difference. Thank him for the beaches in the area that are not just footings for concrete monstrosities.
6 Re: Our environment is beginning to collapse......we need to set new priorities 8/4/2014, 12:11 pm
ZVUGKTUBM
Overdevelopment of the area's watersheds has a greater impact on water quality than any of the polluting industries. People complain about how degraded Bayou Texar is, and all you need to do is look at a satellite image to see how nearly the entire shoreline is built out with houses. The entire upstream watershed is cemented-over or developed. And, the property owners got a lawyer to vindicate them in court in a lawsuit that claimed the nearby AGRICO site was the main source of pollution of the Bayou. The biggest load of hooey to ever pass through a local court. There is no "toxic plume" coming from the AGRICO site toward Bayou Texar. I have seen and interpreted the data from several of the remedial investigation reports published from environmental investigations performed at that site. Therefore I know I am right.
The PNJ was all wrapped up in creating sensationalist articles over local environmental sites from about 2001-2004, and I got into heated email arguments with former Executive Editor Randy Hammer and his renegade environmental reporters, who had no qualifications to even understand what they wrote on. I implored Hammer to have his reporters consult with environmental professionals (I was one) who actually had experience working at some of those sites, but he chose to interview radical activists and know-nothings, because this supported his agenda.
A professor I had at UWF said it best in a course I took on Estuarine Ecology. He had just completed an exhaustive review of investigative reports on the Pensacola Bay system for the state. A student asked if local water quality was impacted more by industry or by development. He pointed the finger at development, saying "it's a people problem."
The PNJ was all wrapped up in creating sensationalist articles over local environmental sites from about 2001-2004, and I got into heated email arguments with former Executive Editor Randy Hammer and his renegade environmental reporters, who had no qualifications to even understand what they wrote on. I implored Hammer to have his reporters consult with environmental professionals (I was one) who actually had experience working at some of those sites, but he chose to interview radical activists and know-nothings, because this supported his agenda.
A professor I had at UWF said it best in a course I took on Estuarine Ecology. He had just completed an exhaustive review of investigative reports on the Pensacola Bay system for the state. A student asked if local water quality was impacted more by industry or by development. He pointed the finger at development, saying "it's a people problem."
7 Re: Our environment is beginning to collapse......we need to set new priorities 8/4/2014, 1:05 pm
Floridatexan
ZVUGKTUBM wrote:Overdevelopment of the area's watersheds has a greater impact on water quality than any of the polluting industries. People complain about how degraded Bayou Texar is, and all you need to do is look at a satellite image to see how nearly the entire shoreline is built out with houses. The entire upstream watershed is cemented-over or developed. And, the property owners got a lawyer to vindicate them in court in a lawsuit that claimed the nearby AGRICO site was the main source of pollution of the Bayou. The biggest load of hooey to ever pass through a local court. There is no "toxic plume" coming from the AGRICO site toward Bayou Texar. I have seen and interpreted the data from several of the remedial investigation reports published from environmental investigations performed at that site. Therefore I know I am right.
The PNJ was all wrapped up in creating sensationalist articles over local environmental sites from about 2001-2004, and I got into heated email arguments with former Executive Editor Randy Hammer and his renegade environmental reporters, who had no qualifications to even understand what they wrote on. I implored Hammer to have his reporters consult with environmental professionals (I was one) who actually had experience working at some of those sites, but he chose to interview radical activists and know-nothings, because this supported his agenda.
A professor I had at UWF said it best in a course I took on Estuarine Ecology. He had just completed an exhaustive review of investigative reports on the Pensacola Bay system for the state. A student asked if local water quality was impacted more by industry or by development. He pointed the finger at development, saying "it's a people problem."
I know there are many houses fronting Bayou Texar with lawns close to or even all the way to the water's edge. I'm sure there's an abundance of fertilizer runoff from these homes...not to mention that so many landscapers and lawn services think nothing of using Roundup products...I get a shudder when I see a Lawn Master truck. I've seen red tide in the Bayou this time of year as well and thought I detected a fish odor a couple of days ago. I absolutely hate using anything but organic fertilizer (fish emulsion), compost (fish entrails make excellent compost BTW). The lawsuit actually rewarded these very homeowners...not to say there hasn't been industrial pollution as well, from Gulf Power's coal plant (which I think has been brought into some kind of compliance with "clean coal" standards...from Monsanto (Solutia), from the paper mill, and through the years by creosote, automotive chemicals, dry cleaners, and old gasoline tanks, among others.
8 Re: Our environment is beginning to collapse......we need to set new priorities 8/4/2014, 1:31 pm
ZVUGKTUBM
I know there are many houses fronting Bayou Texar with lawns close to or even all the way to the water's edge.
My prof called these "backyard bayous," where people groomed and maintained their lawns all the way down to the water's edge. Weed-and-feed, fertilizer, round-up, pesticides, all of that stuff was needed to do this. And all of it is polluting.
You cannot hold industry to one standard, and expect a free-pass for your own polluting activities. And yes, a home-owner's impact may be small scale, but they add up when you group them into the thousands. Homeowners contribute to non-point source pollution, which is cumulative and often worse than the point source pollution that comes out of a discharge pipe. The point sources are heavily regulated, and it is difficult to regulate non-point sources.
One way to reduce non-point source impacts would be for the county to adopt restrictive ordinances that pertain to property owners who are located on or near area water bodies. That would never happen, though, because folks would fight against it. It is always the other person who pollutes...... Just a revised septic tank ordinance mandating inspections on a 10 year cycle or when a property is sold would greatly contribute to improving water quality. But, folks would whine about this being to costly for them.
Forcing developers to do meaningful environmental impact statements before they begin projects would also help. But, developers and property owners would complain about this, too.
My prof called these "backyard bayous," where people groomed and maintained their lawns all the way down to the water's edge. Weed-and-feed, fertilizer, round-up, pesticides, all of that stuff was needed to do this. And all of it is polluting.
You cannot hold industry to one standard, and expect a free-pass for your own polluting activities. And yes, a home-owner's impact may be small scale, but they add up when you group them into the thousands. Homeowners contribute to non-point source pollution, which is cumulative and often worse than the point source pollution that comes out of a discharge pipe. The point sources are heavily regulated, and it is difficult to regulate non-point sources.
One way to reduce non-point source impacts would be for the county to adopt restrictive ordinances that pertain to property owners who are located on or near area water bodies. That would never happen, though, because folks would fight against it. It is always the other person who pollutes...... Just a revised septic tank ordinance mandating inspections on a 10 year cycle or when a property is sold would greatly contribute to improving water quality. But, folks would whine about this being to costly for them.
Forcing developers to do meaningful environmental impact statements before they begin projects would also help. But, developers and property owners would complain about this, too.
9 Re: Our environment is beginning to collapse......we need to set new priorities 8/4/2014, 6:35 pm
Yella
Mr Ichi wrote:The paper mill has killed Perdido bay. The politicians stand by and watch. They have been neutered. For over 25 years I worked on Bayou chico and gained first hand knowledge of the toxic poisons in the water. But is not a popular topic. No one gives a shit. The downtown people and others do not have work in it. Remember, we are crude people with an inferiority complex. Pensacola Bay used to have a very active fishery. Now it is dead. All the local bay shrimp boats are gone. The bay is in disrepair. But you can get a good view of it from Studerville LOL.. The locals tired to be good stewards but have been forced out by the lack of docking space and affordable housing. It is a pattern that is repeated all over the area. To many of us the results were obvious. Now it is breaking news. Grab another jug of Olive Oil and a Hot dog. Nothing to worry about...The multiplier effect will solve all the issues...
I would imagine that nearly all politicians are in the pockets of Industry. They only run for office for what they can get in the way of taxfree payoffs or bribes. They will sell their souls for a pile of money in a sack or the souls of their children if they have to. Even here in Podunk our leaders are very wealthy or seem to look like average citizens because they hide their "Earnings" very carefully.
10 Re: Our environment is beginning to collapse......we need to set new priorities 8/4/2014, 8:05 pm
Guest
Guest
Mr Z. Much of what you have said is true. But I would differ if you do not think the paper mill and closer to me, American Creosote have not seriously damaged the environment. Newport Ind (Arizona chemicals) put many many 1,000 of gallons of toxic chemicals into Bayou Chico..I It remains there today. Water front citizens did not kill Bayou Chico. Industry did. Back in the 60s American Cyanide(Air Products) cased a Major fish kill in Escambia bay. IMHO I dont think the Bay has ever fully recovered.
11 Re: Our environment is beginning to collapse......we need to set new priorities 8/4/2014, 10:57 pm
ZVUGKTUBM
Mr Ichi wrote:Mr Z. Much of what you have said is true. But I would differ if you do not think the paper mill and closer to me, American Creosote have not seriously damaged the environment. Newport Ind (Arizona chemicals) put many many 1,000 of gallons of toxic chemicals into Bayou Chico..I It remains there today. Water front citizens did not kill Bayou Chico. Industry did. Back in the 60s American Cyanide(Air Products) cased a Major fish kill in Escambia bay. IMHO I dont think the Bay has ever fully recovered.
Ichi, American Creosote Works was more polluting than any other industry in Pensacola. I studied the data and reports for that site very closely for a client in the 2003 time-frame. The Sanders Beach community is the one that should have been relocated; not the community off Palofox Street. They didn't have half the genuine contamination that was in surface soil and groundwater that exists in the area between American Creosote Works and the beach where it abuts Pensacola Bay. The Sanders Beach community actually HAD dioxin in surface soil out in the neighborhood. There was a real plume, with real groundwater contamination extending to the east from that site. It affected shallow, intermediate, and deep groundwater. The county built that nice new Sanders Beach Community Center right over the very top of the plume. You can still see the groundwater monitoring wells out in the grassy area seaward of the center, on either side of the building.
I always wondered why Randy Hammer's environmental paparazzi never wrote any articles on American Creosote Works, while they wrote several about "Mount Dioxin" (which had no dioxin in it). Something was fishy about that......
I am not really trying to defend industry, either. Just trying to point out the impacts of largely unregulated non-point sources of pollution.
12 Re: Our environment is beginning to collapse......we need to set new priorities 8/4/2014, 11:34 pm
Guest
Guest
Thanks Mr Z for input on Sanders Beach. I knew people who worked there that had a lot of health problems after they switched from creosote to the chemical preservatives. There is a apartment/Condo built right on the ditch that used to run to the bay.
I was born on "K" street and spend a lot of time around the Creosote plant.
Big Money has found Sanders beach so now it is also a "Place to be" ...................
I was born on "K" street and spend a lot of time around the Creosote plant.
Big Money has found Sanders beach so now it is also a "Place to be" ...................
13 Re: Our environment is beginning to collapse......we need to set new priorities 8/6/2014, 3:42 pm
Yella
Mr Ichi wrote:Thanks Mr Z for input on Sanders Beach. I knew people who worked there that had a lot of health problems after they switched from creosote to the chemical preservatives. There is a apartment/Condo built right on the ditch that used to run to the bay.
I was born on "K" street and spend a lot of time around the Creosote plant.
Big Money has found Sanders beach so now it is also a "Place to be" ...................
The Oil Producing Corporations will ruin our water supply of the future by using the "Fracking" technique to extract oil and gas. But sadly, I believe the steady advance of Islam here in our country will result in the end civilization as we now know it.
14 Re: Our environment is beginning to collapse......we need to set new priorities 8/6/2014, 6:20 pm
Markle
Yella wrote:Mr Ichi wrote:Thanks Mr Z for input on Sanders Beach. I knew people who worked there that had a lot of health problems after they switched from creosote to the chemical preservatives. There is a apartment/Condo built right on the ditch that used to run to the bay.
I was born on "K" street and spend a lot of time around the Creosote plant.
Big Money has found Sanders beach so now it is also a "Place to be" ...................
The Oil Producing Corporations will ruin our water supply of the future by using the "Fracking" technique to extract oil and gas. But sadly, I believe the steady advance of Islam here in our country will result in the end civilization as we now know it.
Oklahoma has been using fracking for than 60 years. Oklahoma has clean air and clean water.
I fully realize that finding economical, efficient ways to extract far more fossil fuels are disheartening to you. Live with it.
Last edited by Markle on 8/6/2014, 6:24 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Delete duplicate word)
15 Re: Our environment is beginning to collapse......we need to set new priorities 8/6/2014, 9:04 pm
Hospital Bob
Markle wrote:
Oklahoma has been using fracking for than 60 years. Oklahoma has clean air and clean water.
I fully realize that finding economical, efficient ways to extract far more fossil fuels are disheartening to you. Live with it.
You lost all credibility when you parroted Limbaugh saying the oil spill was no problem because nature puts oil in the Gulf. I replied and explained to you why that's so wrong and misleading and you never replied. Don't even try to tell us anything about our natural environment after that. As much as I despise Limbaugh and Gore both, you're nothing but somebody who got brainwashed by it.
16 Re: Our environment is beginning to collapse......we need to set new priorities 8/6/2014, 9:11 pm
Hospital Bob
Yes the goddamn air and water is getting fucked up. So is the food supply.
All you old farts like me can do is pray it keeps sustaining us until we croak.
For the ones who have children, I pity your children and grandchildren.
All you old farts like me can do is pray it keeps sustaining us until we croak.
For the ones who have children, I pity your children and grandchildren.
17 Re: Our environment is beginning to collapse......we need to set new priorities 8/6/2014, 11:11 pm
Markle
Bob wrote:Markle wrote:
Oklahoma has been using fracking for than 60 years. Oklahoma has clean air and clean water.
I fully realize that finding economical, efficient ways to extract far more fossil fuels are disheartening to you. Live with it.
You lost all credibility when you parroted Limbaugh saying the oil spill was no problem because nature puts oil in the Gulf. I replied and explained to you why that's so wrong and misleading and you never replied. Don't even try to tell us anything about our natural environment after that. As much as I despise Limbaugh and Gore both, you're nothing but somebody who got brainwashed by it.
As you know, natural seepage pours more crude oil into the Gulf of Mexico and our other Oceans than was that spill or any other. You and the other environmentalists here probably believe that the same water remains in the Gulf today as was here during the spill.
18 Re: Our environment is beginning to collapse......we need to set new priorities 8/6/2014, 11:14 pm
Markle
For the first time in our history, our children and grandchildren will have a poorer state of living than we do today. Thank you semi-retired President Barack Hussein Obama, your comrades, policies and doctrines.Bob wrote:Yes the goddamn air and water is getting fucked up. So is the food supply.
All you old farts like me can do is pray it keeps sustaining us until we croak.
For the ones who have children, I pity your children and grandchildren.
19 Re: Our environment is beginning to collapse......we need to set new priorities 8/7/2014, 7:02 am
Hospital Bob
Markle wrote:
As you know, natural seepage pours more crude oil into the Gulf of Mexico and our other Oceans than was that spill or any other. .
Read this and give me your response, markle.
http://politicalclimate.wordpress.com/2010/05/26/natural-oil-seeps-vs-oil-spills/
20 Re: Our environment is beginning to collapse......we need to set new priorities 8/7/2014, 7:04 am
Hospital Bob
Markle wrote:For the first time in our history, our children and grandchildren will have a poorer state of living than we do today. Thank you semi-retired President Barack Hussein Obama, your comrades, policies and doctrines.Bob wrote:Yes the goddamn air and water is getting fucked up. So is the food supply.
All you old farts like me can do is pray it keeps sustaining us until we croak.
For the ones who have children, I pity your children and grandchildren.
President hussein obama may be semi-retired but I'm fully retired, comrade merkel.
But I agree, hussein obama polluted the gulf and he needs to get his semi-retired ass down here and clean it up.
21 Re: Our environment is beginning to collapse......we need to set new priorities 8/7/2014, 4:29 pm
Yella
Markle wrote:Bob wrote:Markle wrote:
Oklahoma has been using fracking for than 60 years. Oklahoma has clean air and clean water.
I fully realize that finding economical, efficient ways to extract far more fossil fuels are disheartening to you. Live with it.
You lost all credibility when you parroted Limbaugh saying the oil spill was no problem because nature puts oil in the Gulf. I replied and explained to you why that's so wrong and misleading and you never replied. Don't even try to tell us anything about our natural environment after that. As much as I despise Limbaugh and Gore both, you're nothing but somebody who got brainwashed by it.
As you know, natural seepage pours more crude oil into the Gulf of Mexico and our other Oceans than was that spill or any other. You and the other environmentalists here probably believe that the same water remains in the Gulf today as was here during the spill.
I'm pretty sure you won't look at this, Markle, not while there's a hole in the sand where you can bury your head like the proverbial ostrich.
http://www.dangersoffracking.com/
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