Pensacola Discussion Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

This is a forum based out of Pensacola Florida.


You are not connected. Please login or register

A government out of control

Go down  Message [Page 1 of 1]

1A government out of control Empty A government out of control 6/24/2014, 10:14 am

gatorfan



In addition to other issues like an out of control IRS and DoJ, this analysis of drone strikes on American citizens illustrates the slippery slope of expediency at the cost of ignoring inconvenient laws.

"A Thin Rationale for Drone Killings"

The Obama administration on Monday reluctantly released its justification for killing an American citizen, Anwar al-Awlaki, whom it considered a terrorist, in a 2011 drone strike in Yemen. But the rationale provides little confidence that the lethal action was taken with real care.

Under orders from a federal appeals court, the Justice Department made public a 2010 memo explaining why the drone strike was legal. Considering how long the administration fought the release, which was sought by The New York Times and the American Civil Liberties Union, one might have expected a thoughtful memo that carefully weighed the pros and cons and discussed how such a strike accords with international and Constitutional law.

Instead, the memo turns out to be a slapdash pastiche of legal theories — some based on obscure interpretations of British and Israeli law — that was clearly tailored to the desired result. Perhaps the administration held out so long to avoid exposing the thin foundation on which it based such a momentous decision.

The main theory that the government says allows it to kill American citizens, if they pose a threat, is the “public authorities justification,” a legal concept that permits governments to take actions in emergency situations that would otherwise break the law. It’s why fire trucks can break the speed limit and police officers can fire at a threatening gunman. But it’s a dangerous concept if expanded because it could be used to justify all kinds of government misdeeds, especially since Congress has never explicitly authorized an exception for official killing in this kind of circumstance, as the memo acknowledges.

The sheer power of drone strikes, several of which have killed many innocent bystanders, is in no way comparable to the kind of police shootings that the memo cites as precedent. (And, in most cities, police shootings are carefully investigated afterward, and officers face punishment if they exceed their authority. Has that ever happened with an errant drone strike?)

There’s no explanation given in the memo for how the United States knew Mr. Awlaki was planning “imminent” mayhem, as the memo claims. It’s possible that this information was contained in the dozen or so pages that were redacted from the 41-page memo, which was written by David Barron, then an assistant attorney general who was recently appointed to a federal appellate court. The memo says only that Mr. Awlaki had joined Al Qaeda and was planning attacks on Americans, but that the government did not know when these attacks would occur.

Mr. Awlaki’s due-process rights are dealt with summarily. The “realities of combat” meant that no serious due process was possible, the memo said, citing the 2001 Authorization for Use of Military Force that allows antiterror measures anywhere. And the memo never questioned whether the Defense Department and the Central Intelligence Agency, which operate the drone programs, would properly follow international law. “We understand,” Mr. Barron wrote, that the two agencies “would conduct this operation in a manner that accords with the rules of international humanitarian law governing this armed conflict.”

Blithely accepting such assurances at face value is why these kinds of killings are so troubling, and why we have repeatedly urged that an outside party — such as the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court — provide an independent review when a citizen is targeted. How did the Justice Department know that capturing Mr. Awlaki was not feasible, or that the full force of a drone strike was necessary? This memo should never have taken so long to be released, and more documents must be made public. The public is still in the dark on too many vital questions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/24/opinion/a-thin-rationale-for-drone-killings.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=c-column-top-span-region®ion=c-column-top-span-region&WT.nav=c-column-top-span-region&_r=0

2A government out of control Empty Re: A government out of control 6/24/2014, 12:40 pm

Guest


Guest

You have no clue about RPA ISR and the details of "who, what, where, why, when, and the so what" of when an HVI/HVT is targeted to be engaged. It's not a flip of the coin as you perceive it to be. We collect all kinds of INT before making that decision. There are some levels of targets that allow more aggressive actions to be taken than others. I am not going into the details of that here by telling you and violating any NDAs I have signed. All you know is what you read second or even third hand. The kid was related to a terrorist, was hanging out with known terrorists responsible for the deaths of US and Coalition Forces, and obviously, there was enough other INT on the dork to seal his fate. I guarantee you that if the Feds could have prevented the OKC attack by McVay, not that they have used drones (and yes we had drones that far back if you research the history on them and POTUS WJC/ DOD used them first in the mid 90s), but he would have been apprehended and dealt with accordingly. The RPA is a tool, a surgical tool that protects our forces and allows us to do what is necessary to protect the citizens. He was just as bad as Bergdahl on another level. Bergdahl was a peeant compared to this kid.
 
Face it, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

3A government out of control Empty Re: A government out of control 6/24/2014, 1:56 pm

gatorfan



PACEDOG#1 wrote:You have no clue about RPA ISR and the details of "who, what, where, why, when, and the so what" of when an HVI/HVT is targeted to be engaged. It's not a flip of the coin as you perceive it to be. We collect all kinds of INT before making that decision. There are some levels of targets that allow more aggressive actions to be taken than others. I am not going into the details of that here by telling you and violating any NDAs I have signed. All you know is what you read second or even third hand. The kid was related to a terrorist, was hanging out with known terrorists responsible for the deaths of US and Coalition Forces, and obviously, there was enough other INT on the dork to seal his fate. I guarantee you that if the Feds could have prevented the OKC attack by McVay, not that they have used drones (and yes we had drones that far back if you research the history on them and POTUS WJC/ DOD used them first in the mid 90s), but he would have been apprehended and dealt with accordingly. The RPA is a tool, a surgical tool that protects our forces and allows us to do what is necessary to protect the citizens. He was just as bad as Bergdahl on another level. Bergdahl was a peeant compared to this kid.
 
Face it, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Obviously you missed the ENTIRE point of the article. Two other points: I am a retired military officer and know just a wee bit more than you think so don't waste time trying to lecture me on the finer points of targeting, etc. Point two: I didn't write the editorial, why don't you read something and make sure you understand the point before going blasting off into outer space???? What a puffin!

4A government out of control Empty Re: A government out of control 6/24/2014, 2:05 pm

Guest


Guest

Tyranny

Sponsored content



Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 1]

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum