For you Dilberts that think electric cars are efficient.

http://www.mpoweruk.com/energy_efficiency.htm

The Energy Supply Chain

Much of the energy content of the available energy sources is wasted by inefficiencies the energy conversion and distribution processes. Considering domestic electric lighting as a typical example, less than 1% of the energy consumed to provide the electricity is ultimately converted into light energy. The other 99% is wasted in the supply chain. Using conventional fossil fuelled generating plant, losses accumulate as follows:

   10% of the energy content of the fuel is lost in combustion and only 90% of the calorific content is transferred to the steam.
   The steam turbine efficiency in converting the energy content of the steam into mechanical energy is limited to about 40%. (Carnot's Efficiency Law)
   The rotary electrical generator is very efficient by comparison.The conversion efficiency of a large machine can be as high as 98% or 99%.
  Transmission of the electrical energy over the distribution grid between the power station and the consumer results in a distribution loss of 10% mainly due to the resistance of the electrical cables.
   Further energy is lost due to the energy conversion efficiency of the end user's appliance. Incandescent lighting is particularly inefficient converting only 2% of the electrical energy into light.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the one with the red arrow, the one that's down toward the bottom of the efficiency list, a gasoline engine like the ones in, you know, cars? lol

That's true Bob..most ICEs are are very inefficient. The fact though that electric engines lose 65-70 percent of energy also through heat at the generation source makes them just as inefficient. True the electric motor once the batteries are charged is 90% efficient but unless you are charging from hydro electric power your battery powered car just doesn't exceed the gasoline powered car by much if any. So shoveling coal into your car engine isn't much better than gasoline but it appears better .

TEOTWAWKI wrote:That's true Bob..most ICEs are are very inefficient. The fact though that electric engines lose 65-70 percent of energy also through heat at the generation source makes them just as inefficient. True the electric motor once the batteries are charged is 90% efficient but unless you are charging from hydro electric power your battery powered car just doesn't exceed the gasoline powered car by much if any. So shoveling coal into your car engine isn't much better than gasoline but it appears better .

Even if the overall "well to wheel" efficiency is the same in a comparison between electric cars using coal generated electricity,  and gasoline powered cars using oil,  there are other factors to consider.

1.  A lot of our oil comes from the middle east.  Some of it from enemy nations.
Coal generated electricity is made in America.  Not in the middle east.

2.   Right now,  with the cost of gasoline and the cost of Gulf Power grid electricity being what they are,  the per mile fuel cost for driving a car on gasoline is more than double that of driving it on electric.

But I'm not driving an all-electric  now because the all-electric car is not yet a cost effective option for the mass market BECAUSE of the high price of it's traction battery.
That's why I'm not driving one.  I'm driving a car which utilizes BOTH a gas engine AND an electric motor for propulsion.

Bob wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:That's true Bob..most ICEs are are very inefficient. The fact though that electric engines lose 65-70 percent of energy also through heat at the generation source makes them just as inefficient. True the electric motor once the batteries are charged is 90% efficient but unless you are charging from hydro electric power your battery powered car just doesn't exceed the gasoline powered car by much if any. So shoveling coal into your car engine isn't much better than gasoline but it appears better .

Even if the overall "well to wheel" efficiency is the same in a comparison between electric cars using coal generated electricity,  and gasoline powered cars using oil,  there are other factors to consider.

1.  A lot of our oil comes from the middle east.  Some of it from enemy nations.
Coal generated electricity is made in America.  Not in the middle east.

2.   Right now,  with the cost of gasoline and the cost of Gulf Power grid electricity being what they are,  the per mile fuel cost for driving a car on electricity is more than double that of driving it on electric.

But I'm not driving an all-electric  now because the all-electric car is not yet a cost effective option for the mass market BECAUSE of the high price of it's traction battery.
That's why I'm not driving one.  I'm driving a car which utilizes BOTH a gas engine AND an electric motor for propulsion.  

I was addressing efficiency not cost or politics but thanks for the input.

It's now all about the battery, teo. And battery efficiency is increasing at the rate of about 10% every year.
Over time (and it will happen sooner if significant breakthroughs are discovered), advances in battery technology will give us an all-electric car which can compete for the mass market with a gas car or a gas/electric hybrid either one.

And parallel to that happening, we will also over time get better at generating electricity for those cars with greater "well to tank" efficiency and fewer carbon emissions than the coal fired power plants of today can provide.

But for it to happen, it's going to need time for another change to occur.
Right now, the two words electricity and obama are synonymous.
Once obama is gone, hopefully the two words will go back to not being synonymous again. And millions of people when they hear the word electricity, will no longer associate it with that other word. Hopefully, one day we can go back to an earlier time when electricity was associated with words Like Thomas Edison and Nikola Tesla and not the word obama.

Yes gas has such a high energy to weight ratio that it far surpasses the energy to weight of present day batteries. Still as they make batteries more able to contain energy other factors will come rushing to the front such as safety. Gasoline and especially diesel is a well known and relatively safe fuel. Even little cellphone batteries can explode violently imagine a bank of very high energy batteries exploding in a car...Well wait and see...

http://www.technologyreview.com/view/522046/why-electric-cars-could-be-safer-than-gasoline-powered-ones/

Bob wrote:http://www.technologyreview.com/view/522046/why-electric-cars-could-be-safer-than-gasoline-powered-ones/

Could, is the operative word. Sure the batteries will be separated but high intensity "flames" will make short work of any casings.. A few bad electrical fires and the Hindenburg effect might set the electric car back a decade or two.

Here's what electrical "fire" can do to sheet steel...plasma torch..