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How could they possibly survive so well without modern medicine ?

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Hospital Bob
TEOTWAWKI
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TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2386849/Man-went-missing-son-Vietnamese-jungle-40-years.html

Found after 40 years: Man who went missing with his son in the Vietnamese jungle when his mother and two of his children were killed in a bomb at their home

Ho Van Thanh, 82, and Ho Van Lang, 41, disappeared during Vietnam War
They have been found four decades later by villagers foraging for firewood

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Teo,

It's time we hash this out.

Yes, "modern medicine" is not always the answer and it's not without problems. We all know that, or at least we should.

But you take it to such an extreme that you throw out all the babies with the bathwater. Your message is that modern medicine is never of any benefit to us. That instead it's always harmful to us.

We can take any of a thousand different examples, but let's take the one I have some personal knowledge of. My malignant melanoma.
If I had not opted for "modern medicine" to remove that malignant tumor, are you honestly going to try to tell me that would have been preferable to just let it grow larger and do nothing about it? Do you think I could have just drank carrot juice and the tumor would no longer be harmful to me?

And if you have these ideas, then why on earth have you made your living working in the "modern medicine" field? Doesn't that make you a hypocrite who has sold out his beliefs for the almighty dollar? Why aren't you instead selling carrot juice at some "health store"? I just don't get that.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Yes Bob there are some products of modern medicine that are indispensable. The tools I serviced and installed did more good than harm so I stayed in that line of work. I was in industrial systems for a while and I preferred that work in spite of the heat and dirt. Yes I worked to provide the best most accurate tools possible for medical personnel to make their diagnosis from. I saw them over used often but that and everything that followed was not my call. If I give you a Porsche and you decide to go muddin in it that is not my call.
I had a car wreck a few years ago and it was a pretty bad one. When I refused to go with the ambulance they got indignant and I thought they might arrest me. I had to sign papers releasing them from any and all responsibility. They couldn't wait to radiate me and fill me with chemicals and empty my wallet. All that said. I have been close enough long enough to know that for any good they do they do a vastly greater amount of harm in the pursuit of profit...Just my considered opinion and yes everyone has one and they all stink...Hope they don't kill you with the cure Bob..all the best.

To be fair I stopped the bleeding at the wreck myself and the people in the ambulance gave me a free dressing before I refused to go...the plastic covering over the airbag shrapneled and ripped my arm open when it exploded.

Guest


Guest

TEOTWAWKI wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2386849/Man-went-missing-son-Vietnamese-jungle-40-years.html

Found after 40 years: Man who went missing with his son in the Vietnamese jungle when his mother and two of his children were killed in a bomb at their home

   Ho Van Thanh, 82, and Ho Van Lang, 41, disappeared during Vietnam War
   They have been found four decades later by villagers foraging for firewood
Less man made stress, less pollution, more natural food and living. That would be my guess.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

PACEDOG#1 wrote:
TEOTWAWKI wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2386849/Man-went-missing-son-Vietnamese-jungle-40-years.html

Found after 40 years: Man who went missing with his son in the Vietnamese jungle when his mother and two of his children were killed in a bomb at their home

   Ho Van Thanh, 82, and Ho Van Lang, 41, disappeared during Vietnam War
   They have been found four decades later by villagers foraging for firewood
Less man made stress, less pollution, more natural food and living. That would  be my guess.
BULLSEYE !

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Hope they don't kill you with the cure Bob.
So if you have a malignant melanoma tumor, what will you do?
Are you going to let "modern medicine" cut on you and remove the tumor?
Or are you gonna say that "cure" may kill you and opt not to do it?

In my case, and in yours if you're diagnosed with the same thing, it all comes down to that decision. And that decision can't be glossed over with strawmen and red herrings and if's, ands or butts. The decision has to be made. Either yay or nay.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

TEOTWAWKI wrote:
BULLSEYE !
Yes maybe so. And less exposure to the sun when I was a kid would have made me less likely to contract a malignant melanoma too.

But I can't go back and change that history. That's water under the bridge.
And so now I'm faced (as you would be if you had the same diagnosis) with either relying on "modern medicine's" answer to malignant melanoma or not relying on it. And whatever lifestyle that Vietnamese had has no relevance to the situation I faced a month ago. Even if that Vietnamese and all like him lived a healthier lifestyle, I still had to make the decision of whether to rely on modern medicine or to ignore it.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Bob wrote:
TEOTWAWKI wrote:Hope they don't kill you with the cure Bob.
So if you have a malignant melanoma tumor,  what will you do?
Are you going to let "modern medicine" cut on you and remove the tumor?
Or are you gonna say that "cure" may kill you and opt not to do it?

In my case,  and in yours if you're diagnosed with the same thing,  it all comes down to that decision.  And that decision can't be glossed over with strawmen and red herrings and if's, ands or butts.  The decision has to be made.  Either yay or nay.
Never been in That position. When I was much younger and not in the medical field I had three tumors cut out of me. They were not malignant. I still have a dozen or so and there's no way to tell what they are without removing them. I have left them alone and they are all but forgotten in my day to day. I am sure some of the spots on my bald head are what they would call pre cancerous tumors. I scrape them off with a knife and put a peroxide dressing on them for a few hours...I am still here but who knows when I will be in your shoes. I guess I will cross that bridge when I get a nasty old tumor but if I can reach it I will probably cut it off and pour peroxide on it....LOL.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

See that's the thing.  A benign skin thingie is nothing.  I have plenty of those at this age as we all do.  But I'm convinced (you may not be) that a malignant skin thingie is a whole different animal.  I'm convinced that it can and will kill our asses if we don't let "modern medicine" do it's thing.

And if you take a knife and "cut it off" yourself I think you better be damn sure you remove ALL of it in every layer of the dermis it's permeated.  And remove enough of it (wide excision) that the margins around it are clear.  
Because if you leave any melanocytes (and they aren't even visible to the naked eye),  those sumbitches are gonna drain into your lymph basin and move to the lymph nodes.  And unchecked,  they can and will drain on into your liver or lung or brain or even your eye.  And I cannot imagine you or anyone else taking a knife and cutting out your own liver or lung or eyeball yourself. Let alone your brain.  lol

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Bob I am 65 I have lived a fantastic life of Adventure and wonder. I have had two beautiful wives and  kids and grand-kids. I don't see the profit or purpose in living too long. If I get a terminal illness then I will terminate. I may go to Mexico and get me some peyote or something to reduce the pain...I have never taken any illegal drugs so that would be a great time to experience that ..LOL. Who knows I might be breaking Bad...

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob



I agree, once something has become a terminal illness I'm not sure I want to live with that and may prefer to let it kill me without going through a lot of horrible suffering just to extend my existence.

But what I was diagnosed with was only a terminal illness if I had chosen to let it be that. Instead I chose to let modern medicine make it a treatable illness and not a terminal one and there is no suffering associated with doing that.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Bob wrote:

I agree,  once something has become a terminal illness I'm not sure I want to live with that and may prefer to let it kill me without going through a lot of horrible suffering just to extend my existence.  

But what I was diagnosed with was only a terminal illness if I had chosen to let it be that.  Instead I chose to let modern medicine make it a treatable illness and not a terminal one and there is no suffering associated with doing that.
Case in point Bob. I knew of a guy in Hawaii that had a moderate cancer that they treated with radiation 5 or so years ago. He recently died of massive invasive cancer that precisely followed the path of the radiation treatments through his brain into his mouth and out his shoulder. They cut out his tongue and sent him home and he lay for 2 weeks sedated and forbidden food and water till he died. Was that modern medicine..I will take the Spanish Inquisition over that.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

TEOTWAWKI wrote:
Case in point Bob. I knew of a guy in Hawaii that had a moderate cancer that they treated with radiation 5 or so years ago. He recently died of massive invasive cancer that precisely followed the path of the radiation treatments through his brain into his mouth and out his shoulder. They cut out his tongue and sent him home and he lay for 2 weeks sedated and forbidden food and water till he died. Was that modern medicine..I will take the Spanish Inquisition over that.
That's the "bathwater". I'm the "baby". My point is, don't throw me out too. lol

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Bob shock your system.. stop drinking smoking and start eating healthy and get some good cardio exercise.. the cancer would think it was in the wrong body and leave.

Guest


Guest

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Yes Bob there are some products of modern medicine that are indispensable. The tools I serviced and installed did more good than harm so I stayed in that line of work. I was in industrial systems for a while and I preferred that work in spite of the heat and dirt. Yes I worked to provide the best most accurate tools possible for medical personnel to make their diagnosis from. I saw them over used often but that and everything that followed was not my call. If I give you a Porsche and you decide to go muddin in it that is not my call.
I had a car wreck a few years ago and it was a pretty bad one. When I refused to go with the ambulance they got indignant and I thought they might arrest me. I had to sign papers releasing them from any and all responsibility. They couldn't wait to radiate me and fill me with chemicals and empty my wallet. All that said. I have been close enough long enough to know that for any good they do they do a vastly greater amount of harm in the pursuit of profit...Just my considered opinion and yes everyone has one and they all stink...Hope they don't kill you with the cure Bob..all the best.

To be fair I stopped the bleeding at the wreck myself and the people in the ambulance gave me a free dressing before I refused to go...the plastic covering over the airbag shrapneled and ripped my arm open when it exploded.
You didn't get stitches? Or did you stitch it yourself?

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Dreamsglore wrote:
TEOTWAWKI wrote:Yes Bob there are some products of modern medicine that are indispensable. The tools I serviced and installed did more good than harm so I stayed in that line of work. I was in industrial systems for a while and I preferred that work in spite of the heat and dirt. Yes I worked to provide the best most accurate tools possible for medical personnel to make their diagnosis from. I saw them over used often but that and everything that followed was not my call. If I give you a Porsche and you decide to go muddin in it that is not my call.
I had a car wreck a few years ago and it was a pretty bad one. When I refused to go with the ambulance they got indignant and I thought they might arrest me. I had to sign papers releasing them from any and all responsibility. They couldn't wait to radiate me and fill me with chemicals and empty my wallet. All that said. I have been close enough long enough to know that for any good they do they do a vastly greater amount of harm in the pursuit of profit...Just my considered opinion and yes everyone has one and they all stink...Hope they don't kill you with the cure Bob..all the best.

To be fair I stopped the bleeding at the wreck myself and the people in the ambulance gave me a free dressing before I refused to go...the plastic covering over the airbag shrapneled and ripped my arm open when it exploded.
You didn't get stitches? Or did you stitch it yourself?


They used temporary butterflies and they held okay under the dressing ..I heal fast..I would have used superglue if I had to..

Ghost Rider

Ghost Rider

TEOTWAWKI wrote:
Bob wrote:
TEOTWAWKI wrote:Hope they don't kill you with the cure Bob.
So if you have a malignant melanoma tumor,  what will you do?
Are you going to let "modern medicine" cut on you and remove the tumor?
Or are you gonna say that "cure" may kill you and opt not to do it?

In my case,  and in yours if you're diagnosed with the same thing,  it all comes down to that decision.  And that decision can't be glossed over with strawmen and red herrings and if's, ands or butts.  The decision has to be made.  Either yay or nay.
Never been in That position. When I was much younger and not in the medical field I had three tumors cut out of me. They were not malignant. I still have a dozen or so and there's no way to tell what they are without removing them. I have left them alone and they are all but forgotten in my day to day. I am sure some of the spots on my bald head are what they would call pre cancerous tumors. I scrape them off with a knife and put a peroxide dressing on them for a few hours...I am still here but who knows when I will be in your shoes. I guess I will cross that bridge when I get a nasty old tumor but if I can reach it I will probably cut it off and pour peroxide on it....LOL.
With all due respect Teo, the tumor does not have to be cut out to diagnose it as malignant or benign. They can take just a small piece of it or even a needle biopsy for diagnosis. Last year my wife was diagnosed with a lump in her left breast. They performed a needle biopsy, found it to be malignant. It was not until later that she had the tumor removed and 25 treatments of radiation.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Yes that's very true and since I have a dozen of the little buggers and they don't seem to be growing or anything I don't plan to be a pin cushion just to know...Thanks for the respect. They did biopsies on my machines all the time they used the imaging to guide the needle into the tumors...


How could they possibly survive so well without modern medicine ? Biopsy10

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

A good dermatologist can look at all the skin crappies we have and rule out what is not suspicious.  I can actually rule out a few myself now that I've become familiar with the different ways melanoma can look like from google images.

But the ones which can't be ruled out visually,  can be diagnosed with a biopsy that is about the simplest and least invasive thing you can have done.  It's really nothing more than scraping off a tissue sample.  And if that is done in the very early stage of melanoma then that's usually the end of it.
And that's done at very little expense.

Mine advanced just a little too long for that so I needed the biopsy on the sentinel lymph node too (the next spot the melanoma cells drain to).  
The problem with waiting until that is required is you better have damn good insurance because that aint inexpensive.  In fact the cost of that is downright exhorbitant.  
It wasn't the damn disease that was such a big deal for me.  It's the cost.

Fortunately in my case I had the funds to be able to cope with that high cost.  But for many if not most of us who don't have health insurance,  that exhorbitant cost makes it not even an option unless it's paid for by those who do have insurance (in the form of higher premiums).
So the issue in the case of dealing with melanoma (as it is with much illness) is all about the money.  Do we want to provide insurance coverage for those who can't afford it or do we not.  And what are we doing to keep the costs from growing out of control.
Obamacare addresses the former issue.  But not the latter.  
And until something really significant does address that issue, that train is moving closer and closer to becoming a trainwreck.

2seaoat



You didn't get stitches? Or did you stitch it yourself?


Nope, he walked down to the pond and got a snapping turtle.......had him bite the wound shut, and cut the turtles head off.......took the turtle home and made some natural soup which sped up the healing, and for a week he made incredible sales as folks had to see Davy Crockett's turtle stitch.........we don't need no stinking doctors or the medicine they rode in on........a turtle stitch and a bowl of turtle soup......priceless.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

2seaoat wrote:You didn't get stitches? Or did you stitch it yourself?


Nope, he walked down to the pond and got a snapping turtle.......had him bite the wound shut, and cut the turtles head off.......took the turtle home and made some natural soup which sped up the healing, and for a week he made incredible sales as folks had to see Davy Crockett's turtle stitch.........we don't need no stinking doctors or the medicine they rode in on........a turtle stitch and a bowl of turtle soup......priceless.
That's right pilgrim ..... LOL

Guest


Guest

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Bob I am 65 I have lived a fantastic life of Adventure and wonder. I have had two beautiful wives and  kids and grand-kids. I don't see the profit or purpose in living too long. If I get a terminal illness then I will terminate. I may go to Mexico and get me some peyote or something to reduce the pain...I have never taken any illegal drugs so that would be a great time to experience that ..LOL. Who knows I might be breaking Bad...
How could they possibly survive so well without modern medicine ? Th?id=H.4767135647859616&pid=1

Screw going to Mexico... Just raise it yourself.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEEzbFxEbB8

Smile 

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Damaged Eagle wrote:
Screw going to Mexico...  Just raise it yourself.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEEzbFxEbB8

Smile 
That's easy to say for you farmers. You got lots and lots of farmland to hide it on. We city boys aint got nuthin but trouble. Especially here in the sunshine state where even one plant is a felony. lol

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Sunshine state my ass. Geezer state is more like it. Where all the reefer madness crowd came to retire and THEY ALL vote. lol

Ghost Rider

Ghost Rider

My dad lived to the ripe old age of 92 and he never even once took an aspirin. He also did not have to live in a secluded jungle somewhere. So I guess my question would be, is there a point here?

BTW, my dad was not just an isolated case, his whole family lived well into their 90s.

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