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Thank you, President Biden!

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Floridatexan
zsomething
Telstar
PkrBum
Sal
9 posters

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76Thank you, President Biden! - Page 4 Empty Re: Thank you, President Biden! 8/26/2021, 8:03 am

Sal

Sal

95,700 evacuated since 8/14.

101,300 evacuated since July.

Really remarkable stuff.

Floridatexan, Telstar and zsomething like this post

77Thank you, President Biden! - Page 4 Empty Re: Thank you, President Biden! 8/26/2021, 9:01 am

zsomething



Floridatexan wrote:

I agree with most of what you said, but it appears Trump left the Afghans up the creek without a paddle...pulled air support, leaving them demoralized.  Here's an interview with David Petraeus.  I know, I know...he's not who I would consult on this subject, mainly because he has a blind spot when he looks in the mirror.  But read what he has to say.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/david-petraeus-on-american-mistakes-in-afghanistan

************

Also this:

Trump Reveals His Plan for Afghanistan Was to Abandon Our Troops and Allies - Psaki Reveals His Lies

August 25, 2021

"One of the problems that Joe Biden inherited from his predecessors when he became President was the two decades long war in Afghanistan. And he made it clear that he was determined to make certain that it wasn't handed down to another president.

Biden's goal was strewn with obstacles placed in his path by Donald Trump, whose abysmal deal with the Taliban has been lambasted by his own National Security Advisor as a "surrender agreement," that lifted all sanctions on the Taliban and freed 5,000 of their imprisoned fighters, including their leader.

Not one to be deterred by reality, Trump is still hammering away at Biden with blatantly dishonest representations of the situation now unfolding in Afghanistan. He released a statement on Tuesday via his spokes-shill, Liz Harrington (whose proxy Trump tweeting is violating Twitter's rules against circumventing a ban), that sound more like a madman on a street corner yelling at passing cars than a diplomat:

"Biden surrendered Afghanistan to terrorists and left thousands of Americans for dead by pulling out the Military before our citizens. Now we are learning that out of the 26,000 people who have been evacuated, only 4,000 are Americans. You can be sure the Taliban, who are now in complete control, didn’t allow the best and brightest to board these evacuation flights. Instead, we can only imagine how many thousands of terrorists have been airlifted out of Afghanistan and into neighborhoods around the world. What a terrible failure. NO VETTING. How many terrorists will Joe Biden bring to America? We don’t know!"

There's a lot to unpack in that hysterical harangue. Starting at the top, Biden did not surrender to terrorists. That was Trump. And Biden has not left a single American for dead, much less thousands. Trump appears to have ingested some powerful hallucinogens..."

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/8/24/2048010/-Trump-Reveals-His-Plan-for-Afghanistan-Was-to-Abandon-Our-Troops-and-Allies-Psaki-Reveals-His-Lies?pm_source=story_sidebar&pm_medium=web&pm_campaign=recommended#comment_81665687

*************



Yep.  Good info!

Biden's plan undeniably had some big flaws, to put it mildly (although the efforts to make up for as much of the mistakes as possible has been remarkable and very commendable), but he was handed a shit sandwich by the previous administration, for certain.  Not just on Afghanistan, but in pretty much everything.  On some things he could do a better job dealing with that shit sandwich (Afghanistan and the border situation are both disappointments) and in others he's done really well (the economy, and dealing with COVID... which is not going well but that's due to Republicans deciding to kill themselves rather than join in vaccination and masking efforts -- that one ain't any of Biden's fault at all, I don't see anything he's done badly in that regard).  But the fact is certain that Trump planted a lot of poison seeds just so he could blame whoever followed him when they sprouted.  Hell, just this morning I'm seeing Republicans railing about "inflation" and completely ignoring the fact that inflation always comes along with a rapidly-growing economy.  If ya don't want inflation, don't crash the economy in the first place, like Trump did!  It never fails... Democrats clean up after Republicans, and Republicans always ignore the fact that they made the mess in the first place, so they can complain it's not being cleaned up quickly enough.

So Biden finally decided to take the hit, which all knew would be a hit to one degree or another, but somebody had to do it, and ended Dubya's mess in Afghanistan, which Trump had further undermined.  When Trump planned to pull out, he didn't talk to the Afghan government about it -- he talked to the Taliban!   Because that's who Trump likes -- the bad guys.  Trump always wants to buddy up to the bad guys, because he sees anything good as "weakness."   When one's big mentors in life are Fred Trump Sr. and Roy Cohn, that's how it turns out.

Trump made deals (his usual deals -- "we'll give you a bunch of concessions, and you won't give us anything, but you'll like me!" ) with the Taliban and left the Afghan government out of it.  That undermined them and demoralized them, made them feel like already-forsaken bit players in what was supposed to be their own country.  Trump freed a lot of the Taliban's top killers, including the guy who appears to be the new acting Taliban president.  He gave them plenty of time to reorganize and set up... and they took full advantage of it, and that's a lot of why things happened they way they happened.  Trump stacked the deck against the Afghan government.  They still should have fought back instead of just letting it happen, but the fact that Trump's actions demoralized them is pretty hard for any reasonable person to deny.

If Trump had done this pull-out, it would have undoubtedly gone at least as badly and higly-likely worse, and there'd have been no attempt to clean-up afterward... because Trump doesn't do clean-ups.  Cleaning up would mean admitting there was a mess in the first place, and Trump does not -- and, due to his particular set of hardwired neuroses, CAN NOT -- admit clean-ups.  He would have left everyone there to die and just denied it was happening, and rail against the news for "working against him" for reporting it at all.  We wouldn't be airlifting people out of there at a rapid rate because that would've made for unflattering optics.  

And, y'know what?  His followers would be right on board with him.  The same stuff they're criticizing now they'd be saying was not even happening.   They'd aid-and-abet... because they're a cult.

Biden can handle the unflattering optics because he knows he's doing the right thing, even if the press makes hay of it.  Could more be done?  Yeah, more could always be done.  Should more safeguards have been taken before this all started?  Yup.  But no matter how it went, Republicans were going to say it was a disaster.  Republicans love to find a "Benghazi" as much as they like to ignore a COVID epidemic.

Speaking of which, the fact that Republicans are still looking at DeSantis as a presidential contender while Florida's in the state that it's in proves just how far down the well of insanity they've gone.



Last edited by zsomething on 8/26/2021, 11:14 am; edited 1 time in total

Floridatexan, Telstar and RealLindaL like this post

78Thank you, President Biden! - Page 4 Empty Re: Thank you, President Biden! 8/26/2021, 9:40 am

Sal

Sal

Pulling out of a quagmire is a messy business by definition, there’s no two ways about it.

The fact that there hasn’t been a US casualty yet during this incredibly fraught and complex operation is nothing short of a miracle.

Make no mistake, the MAGA types are praying for a suicide bomber or a plane to go down, and it’s getting more likely by the minute.

American Taliban has never been a more apt description.

Telstar, RealLindaL and zsomething like this post

79Thank you, President Biden! - Page 4 Empty Re: Thank you, President Biden! 8/26/2021, 1:14 pm

gatorfan



Sal wrote:Pulling out of a quagmire is a messy business by definition, there’s no two ways about it.

The fact that there hasn’t been a US casualty yet during this incredibly fraught and complex operation is nothing short of a miracle.

Make no mistake, the MAGA types are praying for a suicide bomber or a plane to go down, and it’s getting more likely by the minute.

American Taliban has never been a more apt description.

You invariably post a bunch of BS trying to get a reaction but to say anyone is "praying for a suicide bomber" is just ignorant.

So yes you got your suicide bomber (I prefer murder bomber) and yes Americans were injured at the last report I saw. Hope you're happy now. Send another check to ISIS.

The only success story in this Biden fiasco are the troops and aircraft crews from various countries putting THEIR asses on the X to make this thing happen.

80Thank you, President Biden! - Page 4 Empty Re: Thank you, President Biden! 8/26/2021, 1:30 pm

gatorfan



gatorfan wrote:
Sal wrote:Pulling out of a quagmire is a messy business by definition, there’s no two ways about it.

The fact that there hasn’t been a US casualty yet during this incredibly fraught and complex operation is nothing short of a miracle.

Make no mistake, the MAGA types are praying for a suicide bomber or a plane to go down, and it’s getting more likely by the minute.

American Taliban has never been a more apt description.

You invariably post a bunch of BS trying to get a reaction but to say anyone is "praying for a suicide bomber" is just ignorant.

So yes you got your suicide bomber (I prefer murder bomber) and yes Americans were injured at the last report I saw. Hope you're happy now. Send another check to ISIS.

The only success story in this Biden fiasco are the troops and aircraft crews from various countries putting THEIR asses on the X to make this thing happen.
Unfortunately now it's reported 4 Marines were killed. Sally is ecstatic.

Joanimaroni likes this post

81Thank you, President Biden! - Page 4 Empty Re: Thank you, President Biden! 8/26/2021, 2:15 pm

PkrBum

PkrBum

The results never mattered to leftists. This was a political game. There're still over a thousand Americans there.

82Thank you, President Biden! - Page 4 Empty Re: Thank you, President Biden! 8/26/2021, 3:02 pm

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

So far ….Two US officials say 11 Marines and a Navy medic were killed in the Afghanistan attacks, according to the Associated Press.

Earlier in the day, Pentagon spokesman John Kirby confirmed a “number of U.S. service members were killed” in Thursday’s attack at the Kabul airport.

“A number of others are being treated for wounds,” Kirby said. “We also know that a number of Afghans fell victim to this heinous attack.”

Afghans including children were killed.

No one wants this to happen contrary to Sal’s sad unsubstantiated accusations.
Sal you are a sick partisan hack.

gatorfan likes this post

83Thank you, President Biden! - Page 4 Empty Re: Thank you, President Biden! 8/27/2021, 7:05 am

PkrBum

PkrBum

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/08/26/us-officials-provided-taliban-with-names-of-americans-afghan-allies-to-evacuate-506957

84Thank you, President Biden! - Page 4 Empty Re: Thank you, President Biden! 8/27/2021, 3:58 pm

Sal

Sal

When you lose a war and hand the country over to the enemy, there’s no way to extract your people or your allies safely.

There will always be violence, panic, and chaos.

This is the nature of retreat.

This is true, no matter how many times you run the experiment.

Floridatexan, Telstar and zsomething like this post

85Thank you, President Biden! - Page 4 Empty Re: Thank you, President Biden! 8/27/2021, 4:02 pm

Sal

Sal

PkrBum wrote:https://www.politico.com/news/2021/08/26/us-officials-provided-taliban-with-names-of-americans-afghan-allies-to-evacuate-506957

Uh …

When you’re trying to get said people through Taliban controlled check-points, you kinda have to do that.

Magical thinking does not make for good strategy.

Sheesh.

Floridatexan and Telstar like this post

86Thank you, President Biden! - Page 4 Empty Re: Thank you, President Biden! 8/27/2021, 4:46 pm

Telstar

Telstar

" Far Bigger than Osama bin Laden."  Traitor Trump

They need to build a special wing in hell for this POS.



zsomething likes this post

87Thank you, President Biden! - Page 4 Empty Re: Thank you, President Biden! 8/27/2021, 6:54 pm

gatorfan



Sal wrote:When you lose a war and hand the country over to the enemy, there’s no way to extract your people or your allies safely.

There will always be violence, panic, and chaos.

This is the nature of retreat.

This is true, no matter how many times you run the experiment.

What a rube. So NOW your are saying it's a Hiden Biden retreat. Make your mind up. It's a disaster because he had no real plan. Such an armchair partisan expert. GAG.

Joanimaroni likes this post

88Thank you, President Biden! - Page 4 Empty Re: Thank you, President Biden! 8/27/2021, 9:20 pm

Sal

Sal

[quote="gatorfan"]
Sal wrote:
What a rube. So NOW your are saying it's a Hiden Biden retreat. Make your mind up. It's a disaster because he had no real plan. Such an armchair partisan expert. GAG.


There's no graceful departure from a war—especially a war that was never winnable.

And, there's no moral explanation for how some people (see Chuckles and Skippy) are using the tragedy of a terrorist attack against our troops for partisan purposes.

Meanwhile, 109,200 evacuated since 8/14. 114,800 since July.

Why don’t you ask one of those evacuees if this operation was a “disaster”, you pathetic, unpatriotic, Trump-humping POS?

Floridatexan, Telstar and zsomething like this post

89Thank you, President Biden! - Page 4 Empty Re: Thank you, President Biden! 8/28/2021, 4:58 am

PkrBum

PkrBum

Sal wrote:there’s no way to extract your people or your allies safely.

Gawd.... you're a fucking idiot.

https://news.yahoo.com/taliban-now-controls-u-made-073702352.html

The Taliban Now Controls a U.S.-Made Super-Surveillance System

In Kabul, checkpoints are now manned by Taliban fighters using biometric scanners paid for by the American people to hunt down civilians who worked and fought alongside us.

90Thank you, President Biden! - Page 4 Empty Re: Thank you, President Biden! 8/28/2021, 7:54 am

gatorfan



Sal wrote:
gatorfan wrote:
Sal wrote:
What a rube. So NOW your are saying it's a Hiden Biden retreat. Make your mind up. It's a disaster because he had no real plan. Such an armchair partisan expert. GAG.


There's no graceful departure from a war—especially a war that was never winnable.

And, there's no moral explanation for how some people (see Chuckles and Skippy) are using the tragedy of a terrorist attack against our troops for partisan purposes.

Meanwhile, 109,200 evacuated since 8/14.  114,800 since July.

Why don’t you ask one of those evacuees if this operation was a “disaster”, you pathetic, unpatriotic, Trump-humping POS?

Bidens fiasco is pathetic and apologists like you are too. I did my 20 years of Military Service and also had my share of combat in the Middle East. I've forgotten more about war than you will ever know partisan hack.

91Thank you, President Biden! - Page 4 Empty Re: Thank you, President Biden! 8/28/2021, 1:50 pm

Telstar

Telstar

Floridatexan and zsomething like this post

92Thank you, President Biden! - Page 4 Empty Re: Thank you, President Biden! 8/30/2021, 11:53 am

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

gatorfan wrote:
Sal wrote:When you lose a war and hand the country over to the enemy, there’s no way to extract your people or your allies safely.

There will always be violence, panic, and chaos.

This is the nature of retreat.

This is true, no matter how many times you run the experiment.

What a rube. So NOW your are saying it's a Hiden Biden retreat. Make your mind up. It's a disaster because he had no real plan. Such an armchair partisan expert. GAG.

It's clueless jackasses like you who bear the responsibility for the Afghanistan debacle. Don't forget who invaded Afghanistan under the pretext of getting Bin Laden. Don't forget what Trump did to set up this nightmare, or the absolute fact that your chosen party is now killing kids for political points. Who's the rube?

Telstar and zsomething like this post

93Thank you, President Biden! - Page 4 Empty Re: Thank you, President Biden! 8/30/2021, 12:08 pm

gatorfan



Floridatexan wrote:
gatorfan wrote:
Sal wrote:When you lose a war and hand the country over to the enemy, there’s no way to extract your people or your allies safely.

There will always be violence, panic, and chaos.

This is the nature of retreat.

This is true, no matter how many times you run the experiment.

What a rube. So NOW your are saying it's a Hiden Biden retreat. Make your mind up. It's a disaster because he had no real plan. Such an armchair partisan expert. GAG.

It's clueless jackasses like you who bear the responsibility for the Afghanistan debacle.  Don't forget who invaded Afghanistan under the pretext of getting Bin Laden.  Don't forget what Trump did to set up this nightmare, or the absolute fact that your chosen party is now killing kids for political points.  Who's the rube?


You are. I haven't forgotten anything including the fact you are ignorant of the real world. I don't even have a "chosen Party", Independent is not a "Party" you clueless, uneducated freak. Biden just ordered a hit on kids and tried to claim success - got any comment loser?

94Thank you, President Biden! - Page 4 Empty Re: Thank you, President Biden! 8/30/2021, 4:35 pm

Sal

Sal

gatorfan wrote:
You are. I haven't forgotten anything including the fact you are ignorant of the real world. I don't even have a "chosen Party", Independent is not a "Party" you clueless, uneducated freak. Biden just ordered a hit on kids and tried to claim success - got any comment loser?

What a load of horseshit.

You’re nothing more than a coward who refuses to stand by his ill-considered convictions, and who never fails to wave the bloody shirt regardless of where you find it.

In other words, a throughly despicable political hack and a miserable excuse for a human being.


Floridatexan and Telstar like this post

95Thank you, President Biden! - Page 4 Empty Re: Thank you, President Biden! 8/30/2021, 6:18 pm

Sal

Sal

It is over.

The end of a 20 year error.

Thank you, President Biden.

Floridatexan, Telstar and zsomething like this post

96Thank you, President Biden! - Page 4 Empty Re: Thank you, President Biden! 8/30/2021, 6:57 pm

gatorfan



Sal wrote:
gatorfan wrote:
You are. I haven't forgotten anything including the fact you are ignorant of the real world. I don't even have a "chosen Party", Independent is not a "Party" you clueless, uneducated freak. Biden just ordered a hit on kids and tried to claim success - got any comment loser?

What a load of horseshit.

You’re nothing more than a coward who refuses to stand by his ill-considered convictions, and who never fails to wave the bloody shirt regardless of where you find it.

In other words, a throughly despicable political hack and a miserable excuse for a human being.



Not even original. The squeak of a spineless, do nothing mouse.

97Thank you, President Biden! - Page 4 Empty Re: Thank you, President Biden! 8/30/2021, 7:42 pm

PkrBum

PkrBum

Sal wrote:It is over.

The end of a 20 year error.

Thank you, President Biden.

He's quite the guy.

98Thank you, President Biden! - Page 4 Empty Re: Thank you, President Biden! 8/30/2021, 11:26 pm

Telstar

Telstar

Thank you, President Biden! - Page 4 Sam_ho12

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99Thank you, President Biden! - Page 4 Empty Re: Thank you, President Biden! 8/31/2021, 2:40 pm

zsomething



There's plenty to criticize Biden for about the withdrawal, and quite a bit to praise, as well, but one thing I keep running into is so fucking stupid that I'm wondering exactly how goddamned dumb Republicans get to be before we have to just keep them in a pen and feed them kibble because they can't be trusted to take care of themselves. I mean, this one thing is so wall-eyed tongue-protrusive stupid that forget about making arguments, I'm not sure they're smart enough to properly wipe themselves.

And it's this "we left all that equipment behind" thing.

Surely, surely the people playing that card are just being partisan piece-of-shit trolls -- as usual -- and they're not really so goddamned fucking stupid that they think we should've taken all that equipment out. Please tell me that's not really something you're too moronic to understand. If your head isn't just a beach-ball full of dog-farts, this very-very-VERY basic fact should have occurred to you and I shouldn't have to hold your widdle paw and walk you through it. *sigh*

Let me explain it, slowly, so even the numbest of the numb can possibly get enough dope-rotted brain cells functioning at the same time to understand it:

When we left the country, the Afghan forces that we trained and equipped (that's an important word, remember it) were supposed to keep fighting the Taliban on their own. Readying to do that is kinda a big part of what we stayed there so long to do.

That gear that everybody's all hair-afire over was what we equipped them with to carry on that fight.

What would the critics of leaving that gear there have us do: disarm the allies that we trained as we're on our way out? Say, "Good luck fighting the Taliban, we're taking your guns 'n' shit?"

Does that sound TACTICALLY FUCKING WISE to ANYBODY? DOES IT?!? Forgive me for losing my temper, but sheeeeee-yit, bruh, get fa-real for just one second. If you're mad about the Taliban getting the equipment, think about how outraged you'd be if we'd left the Afghans unarmed to face them! Oh, we'd really have to be spatula-ing your I.Q. 32 ass off the ceiling if we did that. You'd have a completely different -- and far more justifiable -- set of marching orders from Hannity if THAT had happened.

Also, a lot of that equipment was owned by the Afghan government. It wasn't ours to remove, even if it hadn't been insane to take the arms away from the Afghan army. The fact that they chose not to use it to defend their country is on them.

Jesus Christ I get weary of the absolute brainlessness of the right-wing. I know we're going to disagree on things and that's fine but can ya please not be simple-minded fucking children about every single motherfucking thing that hoves into your field of vision? THINK a little bit. There are actual good criticisms of this whole thing to be made, so can't you make those instead of, y'know, proving a tomato is smarter than you?

Plus -- and this is at least less stupid because it requires specialized knowledge, just just, y'know, elementary logical thought -- if you know anything about military withdrawals, you know they never take everything out because it isn't cost-effective or logistically viable. You don't keep troops in harm's way to protect stuff... much of which is already worn-out and of little use anyway. Trump also left weapons behind in Syria -- https://newrepublic.com/article/155471/weapons-america-leaving-behind-syria -- and (though that article does) I've never squawked about it much because... it's a thing that happens on withdrawals. I do squawk about him abandoning our Kurdish allies to their deaths, which is something the right-wingers are conveniently overlooking in their current outrage™, but the weapons left behind is not a big issue, then or now.

If right-wingers want to argue this intelligently -- and let's be honest, most of 'em neither want to, nor seem to have the capability to -- then they're going to have to do it with at least some concern for facts and logic.

Here's a good starting point:





Like him or not, this guy knows what he's talking about, and if you're going to make an argument, then you need to account for what he's talking about here.

It truly amazes me how a whole lot of Republicans just absorb things and then repeat them without even thinking about it. They talk about "talking points" all day long, but they use 'em more than anybody.

Another case in point: the Trumpturds are currently outraged because Biden was "checking his watch" as coffins were going by. They noted that he checked it every time a coffin went past.

Now, if you're a thinking person, that should be a clue to you. Pattern recognition, it's a thing. If something happens every time, it probably happens for a reason, and you -- if you want to be an individual rather than a bundle of reacting dendrites who auto-bleats what some manipulative person has recorded in your mind so you'll repeat it like the well-trained parrot you've made of yerself -- should stop and think what that reason is.

And I don't know for certain because I haven't talked to the man, but I do know that Biden wears his son's watch -- it's a symbol of fallen troops to him, a personal talisman -- and he also wears his son's rosary on that wrist.

Since he did it every time a coffin went by, I would assume that he was probably saying a prayer on the rosary or the watch for each dead service member as they went by. The consistency of it would imply something like that, rather than just assuming he was bored and wondering how long this all would take.

I get it that some people hate Biden for whatever reason, legit or more often imagined. I get it that Trump's consistently childish and mendacious behavior embarrassed the fuck out of conservatives and they're desperate as hell for Biden to look "just as bad" and that's why they nit-pick everything. Y'all elected a cruel, mentally ill lunatic fascist who was absolutely unsuited for the position ya gave him, and WOW did you let your country down in the process, so you neeeeeeed for Biden to be "demented" (he's not) or hateful (nope) or incompetent (again, no, although he could be doing a better job on a few things... but that's the case with anybody), because you don't want to have to think you're the only people in America who make bad choices.

But, sorry, I still like Biden. And even if I didn't, I'd still know I made the best choice out of the two that were available to me. Trump imperiled the very core of this country and what it stands for, and his supporters aided and abetted it because they're malicious idiots who have proven that they're too dumb to see through the most obvious con-man. And, worst of all, they learned nothing from it and are eager to elect another authoritarian fascist dictator... which they will certainly get the chance to do because now that the GOP knows their base will not only accept that, but seems to want it, they won't pass up the opportunity to go full-Nazi.

Even if I didn't like Biden -- and I do -- then I'd still vote against THAT. Every damn chance I get and if I have to fight to do it.

So, nope. no regrets. Sorry if that gripes ya.



Floridatexan, Sal and Telstar like this post

100Thank you, President Biden! - Page 4 Empty Re: Thank you, President Biden! 8/31/2021, 2:48 pm

Sal

Sal

Yep, …

And, don’t forget the “we shoulda kept Bagram” trope.

That one’s equally disingenuous and/or boneheaded - take your pick.



Last edited by Sal on 8/31/2021, 7:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

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