Our America loves money more than lives. Anyone surprised?

In the land created by the rich, for the rich and of the rich, Americans are being urged to risk their lives and those of their loved ones, by ending sheltering and going out to shop and dine like old times. At the same time the scientists agree that such activity will assuredly result in a fearsome jump in coronavirus infections ... and deaths. Trump calls all of us to be "Warriors."

But Commander Bone Spurs gets tested every day.

Hell, Monsanto, DuPont, Texaco, Exxon, the coal mining industry, the chemical industry and health insurers always operated from the platform: "Money counts. People don't."

If you think about it, Trump's exactly the right president for today's America.

It's a virus... not a political football. There's no guarantee that your "sheltering" is the best way to achieve the best outcome. It's just as likely that it will worsen a rebound in the next flu season or some other unintended consequence. The scientists (epidemiologists) most commonly endorsed a herd immunity theory. This quarantine course of action is relatively unique and the outcome is far from certain. How many times has a human manipulation of nature backfired? Often and sometimes catastrophically. So your feeeeelings are one thing... science is another. Try to stay rational and objective.

PkrBum wrote:It's a virus... not a political football. There's no guarantee that your "sheltering" is the best way to achieve the best outcome. It's just as likely that it well worsen a rebound in the next flu season or some other unintended consequence. The scientists (epidemiologists) most commonly endorsed a herd immunity theory. This quarantine course of action is relatively unique and the outcome is far from certain. How many times has a human manipulation of nature backfired? Often and sometimes catastrophically. So your feeeeelings are one thing... science is another. Try to stay rational and objective.

Your welcome to your distorted political views, but scientific facts that indicate opening businesses during an increasing rate of covid19 infection will cause a resultant increase in people with the disease --- at a time when there still is no vaccine or effective therapeutic drugs, a policy pushed by Trump and his administration currently, is clearly being done to improve the economy regardless of the cost in lost lives. Reality

Of course people can decide for themselves whether to participate. If they choose to risk their health by eating out, etc, the onus is on them. The decay of personal responsibility is a result of government overreach.

gatorfan wrote:Of course people can decide for themselves whether to participate. If they choose to risk their health by eating out, etc, the onus is on them. The decay of personal responsibility is a result of government overreach.

That's utter B__hit. Yeah, the clorox soda-loving nutcase who goes out to eat is, as you say, taking full responsibility for his or her actions. But what about all those they give covid19 to before they know they have it?

Consider: We have no effective vaccine or 100% therapeutic prescription drug that cures this disease ... yet. We don't even have 20% of the viable test kits available for the majority of States. And you think it's OK to go to a nail salon a barber shop or Denny's because it's only your life you're risking! Q: Did you go to the same schools with Commander Bone Spur?

Wordslinger wrote:

gatorfan wrote:Of course people can decide for themselves whether to participate. If they choose to risk their health by eating out, etc, the onus is on them. The decay of personal responsibility is a result of government overreach.

That's utter B__hit.  Yeah, the clorox soda-loving nutcase who goes out to eat is, as you say, taking full responsibility for his or her actions. But what about all those they give covid19 to before they know they have it?

Consider: We have no effective vaccine or 100% therapeutic prescription drug that cures this disease ... yet.  We don't even have 20% of the viable test kits available for the majority of States.  And you think it's OK to go to a nail salon a barber shop or Denny's because it's only your life you're risking! Q:  Did you go to the same schools with Commander Bone Spur?

It's a shame you missed the point. I didn't say it was "OK", I said people need to take responsibility for their actions. If you catch the virus from one of the idiots trotting around in public it can only mean you are out there among them. Without taking PERSONAL precautions. That would be YOUR fault.

Wordslinger wrote:

PkrBum wrote:It's a virus... not a political football. There's no guarantee that your "sheltering" is the best way to achieve the best outcome. It's just as likely that it well worsen a rebound in the next flu season or some other unintended consequence. The scientists (epidemiologists) most commonly endorsed a herd immunity theory. This quarantine course of action is relatively unique and the outcome is far from certain. How many times has a human manipulation of nature backfired? Often and sometimes catastrophically. So your feeeeelings are one thing... science is another. Try to stay rational and objective.

Your welcome to your distorted political views, but scientific facts that indicate opening businesses during an increasing rate of covid19 infection will cause a resultant increase in people with the disease --- at a time when there still is no vaccine or effective therapeutic drugs, a policy pushed by Trump and his administration currently, is clearly being done to improve the economy regardless of the cost in lost lives.  Reality

You can't know that loosening restrictions in the end costs more lives. As i said above there are numerous variables we know and potentially some we don't know. Your subjective feeeeelings are touching... but real science is objective and built upon empirical facts.

Just some more context. The old and infirm are the ones most at risk. It would be a good idea for them to restrict movement:

COVID-19 mortality rate depends on age, spread of disease
The exact mortality rate of COVID-19 in the United States isn’t yet known. Outcomes depend on many factors, from the level of strain on the health care system to an infected person's health history and age.

"You really need to look at this by age, because there is an enormous age gradient for risk of death per infected case,” said Dr. Theo Vos in an interview with USA TODAY. He is a professor of health metrics sciences at the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluations at the University of Washington and one of the developers of a highly cited model on the potential spread of COVID-19.

Reports of deaths from the disease by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention show a clear correlation to age. Older people are far more likely to die of the disease.

Vos cautioned against using the reported figures to infer universal mortality rates. Outcomes are too variable across age groups, and too many people may have had the disease but were never formally tested.

Claiming that the disease affects one group more than another is a ridiculous non-point... partially because it's unreliable, since people of all ages can and do die of this, and partially because the spread of infection is the issue, not just individuals.

Basically, the people making these arguments think you can just set up a "peeing section" in a pool. It doesn't work.

The reason we're doing these lockdowns is to protect our front-line troops in this battle, such as medical workers, grocery store clerks, delivery people, etc. -- the people who are keeping our supply lines open and aid those who are sick. If the people who are keeping supply lines open get taken out through illness, then you're going to see real problems, and a much greater spread. It's like sending front-line troops out without air cover... you just don't fucking do that if you want to win battles. We're keeping them safe so they can keep the rest of us safe and supplied.

The vulnerable also need supplies. They can't just "isolate" completely. And it's not like those vulnerable people aren't important, either. It's not an acceptable loss to kill off my mom so somebody can get their nails done.

We all have to take risks, yeah, but not unnecessary ones, or selfish ones. I volunteered to go back to work because somebody had to be here to keep things running, and I'd rather it be me than some of my co-workers, a lot of whom are older or have kids. I'm also doing this to keep the place operating so they'll also have jobs to come back to. We've done it smartly, with just a few of us in the building and limited exposure to other people. We're still having to deal with mail coming in and such, but I'm far less worried about catching this thing from some surface than I am from some person. I'm staying cognizant of the situation, washing my hands a lot, etc. But, it's a risk. I'm cough-prone in general (frickin' sinuses and allergies) so I dunno what this shit would do to me, but, fuck it. Somebody's gotta be here.

But that's to protect other people... not just wanting your fucking hair done or whatever. You can't just open things willy-nilly and just figure, "Oh well, a bunch of old people will die... gotta break some eggs to have a nail-salon omlette!" Fuck that shit. Your ass can wait to re-open the water-slide or whatever. Making sure people have their groceries and medicine and keep the water and lights on is more important than your creature comforts.

The economy will come back eventually, because the same goods and services that were wanted before will be wanted after. I had a lot more confidence in that before I learned that Trump is listening to Art Laffer, who's about the worst person in the world to be listening to when it comes to the economy. He's the "Laffer curve" asshole, which is better known as "trickle-down economics," something that's been proven again and again and again not to fucking work. Soak-up economics works. When rich people get more money, they just invest it and it's unproductive to anyone except them. If you give more money to the poor, though, they spend it. And it ends up helping the rich, too, because what they're spending it on are the goods and services that the richer people are running. But, that requires just a little more patience to work, and the rich don't want the poor to have more money, anyway -- it makes them harder to control. So, they're going to go back to the ol' trickle-down, let-them-eat-crumbs-while-we-eat-cake garbage. If Trump listens to that bastard, then I'm not quite as sure the economy will recover after all. If he'd just leave things be, incentivize businesses to re-open by having the banks give out a lot of low-interest business loans, then it'd bounce back. But, doesn't look like that'll be the plan.

By opening things back too early, you'll (A) create more dire situations because now, instead of getting unemployment, people will be at jobs where there aren't many customers willing to show up. Sure, you can re-open your restaurant, but with people still too afraid (for good reason, since we're not testing, and since assholes with guns and a headful of QAnon conspiracy theories like our resident piece-of-shit troll up there are trying to claim it's all a "hoax" anyway) to go in there, you're gonna founder. And (B), there'll be a second wave of this, and it'll hit a weaker situation. Ever been in a fight? They seldom end at one punch. The first punch just weakens you enough for the subsequent ones. A false-start is going to be devastating, but too many states are trying to protect Trump more than they are their own people. Hell, even fucking Tater-tot, our governor, keeps wobbling on his re-open date. He's desperate to do Trump's bidding, but he sees, clearly, that the state's situation is getting worse. Tater-tot's a low-watt asshole who gets by on saying "Jesus" a lot and playing to people's religion... he doesn't know anything about his actual job. And that's starting to scare the hell out of him. He's a dumb guy, in a very bad place for a dumb guy. So our state, essentially, doesn't really have a leader, because the country doesn't really have a leader and that's who Tater keeps looking toward.


I know people are going to try to wrangle all kinds of dimwit's-idea-of-intellectual wanking horseshit because they're desperate to protect the bungling president from responsibility for a situation he fucked up badly, but, it's clearly just more of the usual crapspew coming from stupid people who'll always try to excuse everything he does because they're too personally weak to admit they made a mistake when they voted for the sonofabitch. You can try to explain-away and theorize all you want, but reality exists no matter how in-denial ya wanna be about it. Around half the country's turned into this weird cult that exists to protect one childish old fool's vanity and keep him from having to confront his daddy-issues, and facing their own gullibility for having fallen for his con-job, but the price of that's gotten too high.

gatorfan wrote:

Wordslinger wrote:

gatorfan wrote:Of course people can decide for themselves whether to participate. If they choose to risk their health by eating out, etc, the onus is on them. The decay of personal responsibility is a result of government overreach.

That's utter B__hit.  Yeah, the clorox soda-loving nutcase who goes out to eat is, as you say, taking full responsibility for his or her actions. But what about all those they give covid19 to before they know they have it?

Consider: We have no effective vaccine or 100% therapeutic prescription drug that cures this disease ... yet.  We don't even have 20% of the viable test kits available for the majority of States.  And you think it's OK to go to a nail salon a barber shop or Denny's because it's only your life you're risking! Q:  Did you go to the same schools with Commander Bone Spur?

It's a shame you missed the point. I didn't say it was "OK", I said people need to take responsibility for their actions. If you catch the virus from one of the idiots trotting around in public it can only mean you are out there among them. Without taking PERSONAL precautions. That would be YOUR fault.

I had no idea how self serving you are! This isn't about me catching covid 19 from a self serving idiot who couldn't wait for another Sonic burger. It's about ALL the innocent victims the infected one comes into contact with -- spreading the disease and making all our chances for survival worse. Your arguments need re-thinking my friend.

zsomething wrote:Claiming that the disease affects one group more than another is a ridiculous non-point... partially because it's unreliable, since people of all ages can and do die of this, and partially because the spread of infection is the issue, not just individuals.  

Basically, the people making these arguments think you can just set up a "peeing section" in a pool.  It doesn't work.

The reason we're doing these lockdowns is to protect our front-line troops in this battle, such as medical workers, grocery store clerks, delivery people, etc.  -- the people who are keeping our supply lines open and aid those who are sick.   If the people who are keeping supply lines open get taken out through illness, then you're going to see real problems, and a much greater spread.   It's like sending front-line troops out without air cover... you just don't fucking do that if you want to win battles.   We're keeping them safe so they can keep the rest of us safe and supplied.

The vulnerable also need supplies.  They can't just "isolate" completely.  And it's not like those vulnerable people aren't important, either.  It's not an acceptable loss to kill off my mom so somebody can get their nails done.

We all have to take risks, yeah, but not unnecessary ones, or selfish ones.  I volunteered to go back to work because somebody  had to be here to keep things running, and I'd rather it be me than some of my co-workers, a lot of whom are older or have kids.  I'm also doing this to keep the place operating so they'll also have jobs to come back to.  We've done it smartly, with just a few of us in the building and limited exposure to other people.   We're still having to deal with mail coming in and such, but I'm far less worried about catching this thing from some surface than I am from some person.  I'm staying cognizant of the situation, washing my hands a lot, etc.   But, it's a risk.  I'm cough-prone in general (frickin' sinuses and allergies) so I dunno what this shit would do to me, but, fuck it.  Somebody's gotta be here.

But that's to protect other people... not just wanting your fucking hair done or whatever.   You can't just open things willy-nilly and just figure, "Oh well, a bunch of old people will die... gotta break some eggs to have a nail-salon omlette!"  Fuck that shit. Your ass can wait to re-open the water-slide or whatever.  Making sure people have their groceries and medicine and keep the water and lights on is more important than your creature comforts.

The economy will come back eventually, because the same goods and services that were wanted before will be wanted after.  I had a lot more confidence in that before I learned that Trump is listening to Art Laffer, who's about the worst person in the world to be listening to when it comes to the economy.   He's the "Laffer curve" asshole, which is better known as "trickle-down economics," something that's been proven again and again and again not to fucking work.   Soak-up economics works.  When rich people get more money, they just invest it and it's unproductive to anyone except them.  If you give more money to the poor, though, they spend it.  And it ends up helping the rich, too, because what they're spending it on are the goods and services that the richer people are running.   But, that requires just a little more patience to work, and the rich don't want the poor to have more money, anyway -- it makes them harder to control.   So, they're going to go back to the ol'  trickle-down, let-them-eat-crumbs-while-we-eat-cake garbage.  If Trump listens to that bastard, then I'm not quite as sure the economy will recover after all.   If he'd just leave things be, incentivize businesses to re-open by having the banks give out a lot of low-interest business loans, then it'd bounce back.  But, doesn't look like that'll be the plan.  

By opening things back too early, you'll (A) create more dire situations because now, instead of getting unemployment, people will be at jobs where there aren't many customers willing to show up.   Sure, you can re-open your restaurant, but with people still too afraid (for good reason, since we're not testing, and since assholes with guns and a headful of QAnon conspiracy theories like our resident piece-of-shit troll up there are trying to claim it's all a "hoax" anyway) to go in there, you're gonna founder.   And (B), there'll be a second wave of this, and it'll hit a weaker situation.  Ever been in a fight?   They seldom end at one punch.  The first punch just weakens you enough for the subsequent ones.   A false-start is going to be devastating, but too many states are trying to protect Trump more than they are their own people.  Hell, even fucking Tater-tot, our governor, keeps wobbling on his re-open date.  He's desperate to do Trump's bidding, but he sees, clearly, that the state's situation is getting worse.  Tater-tot's a low-watt asshole who gets by on saying "Jesus" a lot and playing to people's religion... he doesn't know anything about his actual job.   And that's starting to scare the hell out of him.   He's a dumb guy, in a very bad place for a dumb guy.   So our state, essentially, doesn't really have a leader, because the country doesn't really have a leader and that's who Tater keeps looking toward.


I know people are going to try to wrangle all kinds of dimwit's-idea-of-intellectual wanking horseshit because they're desperate to protect the bungling president from responsibility for a situation he fucked up badly, but, it's clearly just more of the usual crapspew coming from stupid people who'll always try to excuse everything he does because they're too personally weak to admit they made a mistake when they voted for the sonofabitch.  You can try to explain-away and theorize all you want, but reality exists no matter how in-denial ya wanna be about it.   Around half the country's turned into this weird cult that exists to protect one childish old fool's vanity and keep him from having to confront his daddy-issues, and facing their own gullibility for having fallen for his con-job, but the price of that's gotten too high.  

Great post and real truth!

I also want a list of these employers who are screwing over their employees to the feds. Ain't no boycott like one of my boycotts 'cuz my boycotts don't end. Ever.

zsomething wrote:

I also want a list of these employers who are screwing over their employees to the feds.   Ain't no boycott like one of my boycotts 'cuz my boycotts don't end.   Ever.  

zsomething -- Is this you? Great job!!
Glad to know you ...

Wordslinger wrote:

zsomething -- Is this you?  Great job!!  
Glad to know you ...

No, that's not me. That's just another Southern guy (Florida, actually) who hasn't been brainwashed by the conservative-conformity that goes on in the region. I agree with him a lot of the time, but he's not me.

Hmmm...i thought we liked science? Or just when it's politically convenient?

On March 4, Steven Schwartz, director of Vital Statistics at the CDC’s National Center for Health Statistics released an Alert to hospital administrators to inform them that formal guidance was forthcoming to death certificate certifiers, but that in the meantime, “Coronavirus Disease 2019 or COVID-19 should be reported on the death certificate for all decedents where the disease caused or is assumed to have caused or contributed to death.”

On March 24, 2020, Schwartz sent out a second Alert addressing the World Health Organization’s new International Classification of Diseases.

“The underlying cause depends upon what and where conditions are reported on the death certificate. However, the rules for coding and selection of the underlying cause of death are expected to result in COVID19 being the underlying cause more often than not,”...

“COVID-19 should be reported on the death certificate for all decedents where the disease caused or is assumed to have caused or contributed to death,” Schwartz also wrote. “If the decedent had other chronic conditions such as COPD or asthma that may have also contributed, these conditions can be reported in Part II.”

gatorfan wrote:

Wordslinger wrote:

gatorfan wrote:Of course people can decide for themselves whether to participate. If they choose to risk their health by eating out, etc, the onus is on them. The decay of personal responsibility is a result of government overreach.

That's utter B__hit.  Yeah, the clorox soda-loving nutcase who goes out to eat is, as you say, taking full responsibility for his or her actions. But what about all those they give covid19 to before they know they have it?

Consider: We have no effective vaccine or 100% therapeutic prescription drug that cures this disease ... yet.  We don't even have 20% of the viable test kits available for the majority of States.  And you think it's OK to go to a nail salon a barber shop or Denny's because it's only your life you're risking! Q:  Did you go to the same schools with Commander Bone Spur?

It's a shame you missed the point. I didn't say it was "OK", I said people need to take responsibility for their actions. If you catch the virus from one of the idiots trotting around in public it can only mean you are out there among them. Without taking PERSONAL precautions. That would be YOUR fault.

It's too damn bad that we had no leader to warn us early enough for "personal responsibility".

Remember what the Democrats were doing between November and February?

If it was as obvious and necessary as the current dem narrative is claiming... why weren't they taking action? But we know what they were really doing and what their position was when Trump started initiatives in January. Truth be told... if Trump had done everything that the dems say he should've... he'd be charged with abuse of power... again. Silly comrades.

PkrBum wrote:Remember what the Democrats were doing between November and February?

If it was as obvious and necessary as the current dem narrative is claiming... why weren't they taking action? But we know what they were really doing and what their position was when Trump started initiatives in January. Truth be told... if Trump had done everything that the dems say he should've... he'd be charged with abuse of power... again. Silly comrades.

You little low life piece of trash. There were multiple warnings, which Trump chose to ignore and even call a hoax. His ban against China still allowed 400,000 visitors from China into the country. His main consideration is and always has been his reelection. You and he can go to hell.

While your and the dems "consideration" is to win the election no matter the cost. Funny how that works eh simpleton. The dems are going so low as to exploit the human suffering and the tanked economy. Admit it... you don't want a resolution... much less a solution. It's perfectly clear from the dem reaction criticizing steps taken in January that the dems would've done less... much like Obama's swine flu. Which incidentally wasn't politicized. Because it's a fucking flu useful idiot. The only possible fault to cast would be against the China and their communist party. They chose to hide and obfuscate the outbreak and that was really the only chance to have mitigated the spread. I guess you've bought into the CCP narrative too though. That it's just a crazy coincidence that the outbreak took place in the one city which houses their relatively new infectious disease lab which is the only place in China, that we know of,  where that virus is stored and experimented on. It's sickening how the leftists have exploited this crisis. Normal people would be ashamed... but not dems.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/04/01/europe/coronavirus-and-the-threat-to-democracy-intl/index.html

PkrBum wrote:    

Look who is calling anyone a useful idiot. Look in the mirror lately, horses ass?

60 Minutes just dropped a daisycutter of a truth-bomb. Not that it's going to interrupt any moron's self-gaslighting, because nothing ever does.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-vaccine-politics-scientific-community-60-minutes-2020-05-10/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab7d&linkId=88333614

https://twitter.com/60Minutes/status/1259621162163855361

Matt Gaetz and One America News have aggressively been trying to run a distraction/misinformation campaign that are just flat-out lies.

Republicans care more about protecting their failure of a president than they do about protecting the country itself. Point that out and they'll double-down by attacking you. It's a cult.