What is the Optimal Healthcare System?

Azadeh wrote:

Slicef18 wrote:

Azadeh wrote:I think people should just learn to live with their pain and stop whining.

You obviously have never seen the debilitating pain caused by some diseases. It is horrible and non-relenting. The best you can hope for is a day with less pain. Dr. Kevorkian was in tune to his patients and light-years ahead of politicians and clergy.

My comment was an attempt at sarcasm.

Yes, I have seen the debilitating pain caused by disease. You see, my sister has stage 3 congestive heart failure. So I watch her suffer. She's still young. And one of my best friends has multiple sclerosis. Another one of my good friends has muscular dystrophy and he already should be dead but isn't, thank goodness.
I have FELT debilitating pain. I was in a freak accident that was so severe most do not survive it and sustained a severe concussion and head injury, losing most of the hearing in my left ear. I continue to have complications from the head injury, most notably my short term memory and dizziness.
I do know pain and I watch my friends and my sister suffer. What kills me is that there is nothing I can do about it but support and love them as much as I can while they are still here, and to know I'm fortunate to be alive.
I did not mean what I said as an offense to anyone - I was just throwing in some sarcasm and I apologize if I offended anyone for what I said.

I knew you were being sarcastic, Az. F18 just needs to get to know you better.

PBulldog2 wrote:

Azadeh wrote:

Slicef18 wrote:

Azadeh wrote:I think people should just learn to live with their pain and stop whining.

You obviously have never seen the debilitating pain caused by some diseases. It is horrible and non-relenting. The best you can hope for is a day with less pain. Dr. Kevorkian was in tune to his patients and light-years ahead of politicians and clergy.

My comment was an attempt at sarcasm.

Yes, I have seen the debilitating pain caused by disease. You see, my sister has stage 3 congestive heart failure. So I watch her suffer. She's still young. And one of my best friends has multiple sclerosis. Another one of my good friends has muscular dystrophy and he already should be dead but isn't, thank goodness.
I have FELT debilitating pain. I was in a freak accident that was so severe most do not survive it and sustained a severe concussion and head injury, losing most of the hearing in my left ear. I continue to have complications from the head injury, most notably my short term memory and dizziness.
I do know pain and I watch my friends and my sister suffer. What kills me is that there is nothing I can do about it but support and love them as much as I can while they are still here, and to know I'm fortunate to be alive.
I did not mean what I said as an offense to anyone - I was just throwing in some sarcasm and I apologize if I offended anyone for what I said.

I knew you were being sarcastic, Az. F18 just needs to get to know you better.

az is a very dynamic person. Not one to offer long apologies such as this. I find it weird myself.

az is a very dynamic person. Not one to offer long apologies such as this. I find it weird myself.

So a person can't be dynamic and still live with chronic pain? A person can't be dynamic and still express human vulnerabilities?

Why would you find a heart felt apology "weird"?

Then again, I am still ticked with you for the "I don't give a crap" comment you made when I expressed that someone I care about very much received poor care, so I am biased here.

PBulldog2 wrote:

Markle wrote:
Why do Progressives refuse to answer why they DEMAND inferior health care?

Markle, we have inferior care NOW. I don't see how it can get much worse. It is nothing like it was thirty years ago.

Take note of the post I just wrote on another thread about health care. The person I referenced did not receive even "good" care, and he is a fully-insured person.

I don't even want to think about the quality of care given to people who are indigent or under-insured.

Thank goodness for that!

We have the finest quality health care in the world. Yes it is expensive and there are many, realistic ways to bring down the cost without destroying what we have today.

Dreamsglore wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:My question would be why anyone s a right to have something that costs so much for free or at someone esle's expense... Why would that be a right? I mean shouldn't I have a new mercedes?

Because were supposed to value human life over tangible objects that we can't take w/us-that's why.Why value someone's right to live like abortion and then say you don't have a right to live your life in a healthy manner or let them die when thay get sick? Makes no sense at all.

Why do you have such disdain for personal responsibility?

Why should people be punished for good behavior and rewarded for bad behavior? How does that help our country?

How is what YOU want, punishing good, rewarding bad, different than what has put Greece, Italy, Portugal, Spain...oh, and Stockton California, on the road to economic ruin, a good thing?

Markle wrote:

PBulldog2 wrote:

Markle wrote:
Why do Progressives refuse to answer why they DEMAND inferior health care?

Markle, we have inferior care NOW. I don't see how it can get much worse. It is nothing like it was thirty years ago.

Take note of the post I just wrote on another thread about health care. The person I referenced did not receive even "good" care, and he is a fully-insured person.

I don't even want to think about the quality of care given to people who are indigent or under-insured.

Thank goodness for that!

We have the finest quality health care in the world. Yes it is expensive and there are many, realistic ways to bring down the cost without destroying what we have today.

You missed my point, Markle. Then again, perhaps I didn't make myself clear.

What I should have said - what I intended to say - is the quality of health care given now is not even close to the quality given thirty long years ago. I'm not talking about medical advances. I'm talking about quality of care.

Take, for example, the situation I described regarding triage in the ED. Thirty, heck even twenty years ago, triage done by ED nurses was real. It meant something. It was an integral part of emergency department care.

If a patient presented with chest pain, they weren't asked to waste what could be precious time signing in at the registration desk. They didn't wait in line to have vital signs taken. They damned sure weren't asked for payment while they were sitting on the bed, hooked to a monitor, stressed to the max and already frightened.

That's just one example of the decline in quality of care. I could give you more, but I won't bore anyone.

Maybe the quality of care has declined because.....nobody cares anymore.

PBulldog2 wrote:

Markle wrote:

PBulldog2 wrote:

Markle wrote:
Why do Progressives refuse to answer why they DEMAND inferior health care?

Markle, we have inferior care NOW. I don't see how it can get much worse. It is nothing like it was thirty years ago.

Take note of the post I just wrote on another thread about health care. The person I referenced did not receive even "good" care, and he is a fully-insured person.

I don't even want to think about the quality of care given to people who are indigent or under-insured.

Thank goodness for that!

We have the finest quality health care in the world. Yes it is expensive and there are many, realistic ways to bring down the cost without destroying what we have today.

You missed my point, Markle. Then again, perhaps I didn't make myself clear.

What I should have said - what I intended to say - is the quality of health care given now is not even close to the quality given thirty long years ago. I'm not talking about medical advances. I'm talking about quality of care.

Take, for example, the situation I described regarding triage in the ED. Thirty, heck even twenty years ago, triage done by ED nurses was real. It meant something. It was an integral part of emergency department care.

If a patient presented with chest pain, they weren't asked to waste what could be precious time signing in at the registration desk. They didn't wait in line to have vital signs taken. They damned sure weren't asked for payment while they were sitting on the bed, hooked to a monitor, stressed to the max and already frightened.

That's just one example of the decline in quality of care. I could give you more, but I won't bore anyone.

Maybe the quality of care has declined because.....nobody cares anymore.

When I drove my sister to Baptist ER downtown at around 11pm, she was having heart palps (maybe it was called something else - I can't remember) and the staff had been told she had 3rd stage congestive heart failure. So they just let her sit and sit in the ER waiting room. We sat there for over 2 hours. Finally they let us go back to a room. She could have died in the ER waiting for a room and to get some help. Her problem was so serious and life threatening that she was admitted and received a pacemaker the next day.
There was a very drunk man in one of the ER rooms causing problems and a cop was there inside the room dealing with him. So a drunk guy for some reason was occupying one of the much needed rooms. Granted, I didn't know the guy's history, but he sure seemed pretty healthy to me when he tried to escape out the door and 4 guys tackled him. He eventually was arrested.
I just don't know why Baptist waited so long to see my sister. I sure was pissed about that drunk guy.

When I see the statistics on "best health care" in the world and I see Japan at number 10 and the USA at number 16 or 32 or lower on the list, I totally dismiss the validity of that list. Is not being told that you have cancer "better" health care than in USA? Is being put in a hospital room with 5 other patients and left on your own as to feeding yourself/changing bed sheets, etc.. "better" care than in the US? Is being denied anesthesia for procedures that routinely call for anesthesia in American hospitals "better" care? I don't think so.

We DO have excellent health care in the USA. We also have gaps in care and many problems that need to be fixed. I think we need insurance reform, not "mandates" about buying insurance.

Azadeh wrote:

PBulldog2 wrote:

Markle wrote:

PBulldog2 wrote:

Markle wrote:
Why do Progressives refuse to answer why they DEMAND inferior health care?

Markle, we have inferior care NOW. I don't see how it can get much worse. It is nothing like it was thirty years ago.

Take note of the post I just wrote on another thread about health care. The person I referenced did not receive even "good" care, and he is a fully-insured person.

I don't even want to think about the quality of care given to people who are indigent or under-insured.

Thank goodness for that!

We have the finest quality health care in the world. Yes it is expensive and there are many, realistic ways to bring down the cost without destroying what we have today.

You missed my point, Markle. Then again, perhaps I didn't make myself clear.

What I should have said - what I intended to say - is the quality of health care given now is not even close to the quality given thirty long years ago. I'm not talking about medical advances. I'm talking about quality of care.

Take, for example, the situation I described regarding triage in the ED. Thirty, heck even twenty years ago, triage done by ED nurses was real. It meant something. It was an integral part of emergency department care.

If a patient presented with chest pain, they weren't asked to waste what could be precious time signing in at the registration desk. They didn't wait in line to have vital signs taken. They damned sure weren't asked for payment while they were sitting on the bed, hooked to a monitor, stressed to the max and already frightened.

That's just one example of the decline in quality of care. I could give you more, but I won't bore anyone.

Maybe the quality of care has declined because.....nobody cares anymore.

When I drove my sister to Baptist ER downtown at around 11pm, she was having heart palps (maybe it was called something else - I can't remember) and the staff had been told she had 3rd stage congestive heart failure. So they just let her sit and sit in the ER waiting room. We sat there for over 2 hours. Finally they let us go back to a room. She could have died in the ER waiting for a room and to get some help. Her problem was so serious and life threatening that she was admitted and received a pacemaker the next day.
There was a very drunk man in one of the ER rooms causing problems and a cop was there inside the room dealing with him. So a drunk guy for some reason was occupying one of the much needed rooms. Granted, I didn't know the guy's history, but he sure seemed pretty healthy to me when he tried to escape out the door and 4 guys tackled him. He eventually was arrested.
I just don't know why Baptist waited so long to see my sister. I sure was pissed about that drunk guy.

That's just wrong that your sister was treated that way. I don't blame you for being mad.

Azadeh wrote:
When I drove my sister to Baptist ER downtown at around 11pm, she was having heart palps (maybe it was called something else - I can't remember) and the staff had been told she had 3rd stage congestive heart failure. So they just let her sit and sit in the ER waiting room. We sat there for over 2 hours. Finally they let us go back to a room. She could have died in the ER waiting for a room and to get some help. Her problem was so serious and life threatening that she was admitted and received a pacemaker the next day.
There was a very drunk man in one of the ER rooms causing problems and a cop was there inside the room dealing with him. So a drunk guy for some reason was occupying one of the much needed rooms. Granted, I didn't know the guy's history, but he sure seemed pretty healthy to me when he tried to escape out the door and 4 guys tackled him. He eventually was arrested.
I just don't know why Baptist waited so long to see my sister. I sure was pissed about that drunk guy.

PM sent.

chrissy8 wrote:

Azadeh wrote:You are saying go to hospital for treatment. Just look at the phone book and call dr. for appointment and make sure for example they are at Baptist Towers?

I got some pain probs right now - would it be better to go thru Baptist Towers then?

You dont have to go through Baptist. I'm not saying that.

I'm talking about places that have free standing labs, be it MRI's , lab work, Gastro etc. They are out there because they want to make money, big money because all they do is move people in and out like cows getting shots.

When hospitals offer the same types of services with one BIG exception, hospitals also provide continued care for the very ill. They also provide all the great healthcare events around the area.

You should choose the place of your liking. I am just reminding people that these free standing greedy money makers hurt your local hospitals. ALL of them.

They provide competition which helps reduce prices and improve service. How is that a bad thing?

PBulldog2 wrote:

Markle wrote:

PBulldog2 wrote:

Markle wrote:
Why do Progressives refuse to answer why they DEMAND inferior health care?

Markle, we have inferior care NOW. I don't see how it can get much worse. It is nothing like it was thirty years ago.

Take note of the post I just wrote on another thread about health care. The person I referenced did not receive even "good" care, and he is a fully-insured person.

I don't even want to think about the quality of care given to people who are indigent or under-insured.

Thank goodness for that!

We have the finest quality health care in the world. Yes it is expensive and there are many, realistic ways to bring down the cost without destroying what we have today.

You missed my point, Markle. Then again, perhaps I didn't make myself clear.

What I should have said - what I intended to say - is the quality of health care given now is not even close to the quality given thirty long years ago. I'm not talking about medical advances. I'm talking about quality of care.

Take, for example, the situation I described regarding triage in the ED. Thirty, heck even twenty years ago, triage done by ED nurses was real. It meant something. It was an integral part of emergency department care.

If a patient presented with chest pain, they weren't asked to waste what could be precious time signing in at the registration desk. They didn't wait in line to have vital signs taken. They damned sure weren't asked for payment while they were sitting on the bed, hooked to a monitor, stressed to the max and already frightened.

That's just one example of the decline in quality of care. I could give you more, but I won't bore anyone.

Maybe the quality of care has declined because.....nobody cares anymore.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm a bottom line guy. Results matter.

Personally...I don't give a rats behind if the surgeon about to operate on one of my loved ones has the bedside manner of Alec Baldwin. I don't care if the doctor and hospital wanted to assure themselves of payment.

If you want hand holding, we have friends, family, churches and many other resources.

If you think it is "bad" today, wait and see what happens if the government takes over.

Markle wrote:

PBulldog2 wrote:

Markle wrote:

PBulldog2 wrote:

Markle wrote:
Why do Progressives refuse to answer why they DEMAND inferior health care?

Markle, we have inferior care NOW. I don't see how it can get much worse. It is nothing like it was thirty years ago.

Take note of the post I just wrote on another thread about health care. The person I referenced did not receive even "good" care, and he is a fully-insured person.

I don't even want to think about the quality of care given to people who are indigent or under-insured.

Thank goodness for that!

We have the finest quality health care in the world. Yes it is expensive and there are many, realistic ways to bring down the cost without destroying what we have today.

You missed my point, Markle. Then again, perhaps I didn't make myself clear.

What I should have said - what I intended to say - is the quality of health care given now is not even close to the quality given thirty long years ago. I'm not talking about medical advances. I'm talking about quality of care.

Take, for example, the situation I described regarding triage in the ED. Thirty, heck even twenty years ago, triage done by ED nurses was real. It meant something. It was an integral part of emergency department care.

If a patient presented with chest pain, they weren't asked to waste what could be precious time signing in at the registration desk. They didn't wait in line to have vital signs taken. They damned sure weren't asked for payment while they were sitting on the bed, hooked to a monitor, stressed to the max and already frightened.

That's just one example of the decline in quality of care. I could give you more, but I won't bore anyone.

Maybe the quality of care has declined because.....nobody cares anymore.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm a bottom line guy. Results matter.

Personally...I don't give a rats behind if the surgeon about to operate on one of my loved ones has the bedside manner of Alec Baldwin. I don't care if the doctor and hospital wanted to assure themselves of payment.

If you want hand holding, we have friends, family, churches and many other resources.

If you think it is "bad" today, wait and see what happens if the government takes over.

Markle, the government is already involved in healthcare. SHEESH.

Azadeh wrote:

Markle wrote:

PBulldog2 wrote:

Markle wrote:

PBulldog2 wrote:

Markle wrote:
Why do Progressives refuse to answer why they DEMAND inferior health care?

Markle, we have inferior care NOW. I don't see how it can get much worse. It is nothing like it was thirty years ago.

Take note of the post I just wrote on another thread about health care. The person I referenced did not receive even "good" care, and he is a fully-insured person.

I don't even want to think about the quality of care given to people who are indigent or under-insured.

Thank goodness for that!

We have the finest quality health care in the world. Yes it is expensive and there are many, realistic ways to bring down the cost without destroying what we have today.

You missed my point, Markle. Then again, perhaps I didn't make myself clear.

What I should have said - what I intended to say - is the quality of health care given now is not even close to the quality given thirty long years ago. I'm not talking about medical advances. I'm talking about quality of care.

Take, for example, the situation I described regarding triage in the ED. Thirty, heck even twenty years ago, triage done by ED nurses was real. It meant something. It was an integral part of emergency department care.

If a patient presented with chest pain, they weren't asked to waste what could be precious time signing in at the registration desk. They didn't wait in line to have vital signs taken. They damned sure weren't asked for payment while they were sitting on the bed, hooked to a monitor, stressed to the max and already frightened.

That's just one example of the decline in quality of care. I could give you more, but I won't bore anyone.

Maybe the quality of care has declined because.....nobody cares anymore.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm a bottom line guy. Results matter.

Personally...I don't give a rats behind if the surgeon about to operate on one of my loved ones has the bedside manner of Alec Baldwin. I don't care if the doctor and hospital wanted to assure themselves of payment.

If you want hand holding, we have friends, family, churches and many other resources.

If you think it is "bad" today, wait and see what happens if the government takes over.

Markle, the government is already involved in healthcare. SHEESH.

Yup twas the government that fricked up healthcare in too many ways to remember...but the government fricks up EVERYTHING it touchs....just look what it did to Women...okay I'll just wait here for granny to give me a piece of her mind...If she has any left...

Azadeh wrote:

Markle wrote:

PBulldog2 wrote:

Markle wrote:

PBulldog2 wrote:

Markle wrote:
Why do Progressives refuse to answer why they DEMAND inferior health care?

Markle, we have inferior care NOW. I don't see how it can get much worse. It is nothing like it was thirty years ago.

Take note of the post I just wrote on another thread about health care. The person I referenced did not receive even "good" care, and he is a fully-insured person.

I don't even want to think about the quality of care given to people who are indigent or under-insured.

Thank goodness for that!

We have the finest quality health care in the world. Yes it is expensive and there are many, realistic ways to bring down the cost without destroying what we have today.

You missed my point, Markle. Then again, perhaps I didn't make myself clear.

What I should have said - what I intended to say - is the quality of health care given now is not even close to the quality given thirty long years ago. I'm not talking about medical advances. I'm talking about quality of care.

Take, for example, the situation I described regarding triage in the ED. Thirty, heck even twenty years ago, triage done by ED nurses was real. It meant something. It was an integral part of emergency department care.

If a patient presented with chest pain, they weren't asked to waste what could be precious time signing in at the registration desk. They didn't wait in line to have vital signs taken. They damned sure weren't asked for payment while they were sitting on the bed, hooked to a monitor, stressed to the max and already frightened.

That's just one example of the decline in quality of care. I could give you more, but I won't bore anyone.

Maybe the quality of care has declined because.....nobody cares anymore.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm a bottom line guy. Results matter.

Personally...I don't give a rats behind if the surgeon about to operate on one of my loved ones has the bedside manner of Alec Baldwin. I don't care if the doctor and hospital wanted to assure themselves of payment.

If you want hand holding, we have friends, family, churches and many other resources.
If you think it is "bad" today, wait and see what happens if the government takes over.

Markle, the government is already involved in healthcare. SHEESH.

See U.S.P.S..

As you know, GOVERNMENT is why health insurance premiums are so high and so drastically different even between adjoining states. My guess is that you don't even know.

Markle wrote:

PBulldog2 wrote:

Markle wrote:

PBulldog2 wrote:

Markle wrote:
Why do Progressives refuse to answer why they DEMAND inferior health care?

Markle, we have inferior care NOW. I don't see how it can get much worse. It is nothing like it was thirty years ago.

Take note of the post I just wrote on another thread about health care. The person I referenced did not receive even "good" care, and he is a fully-insured person.

I don't even want to think about the quality of care given to people who are indigent or under-insured.

Thank goodness for that!

We have the finest quality health care in the world. Yes it is expensive and there are many, realistic ways to bring down the cost without destroying what we have today.

You missed my point, Markle. Then again, perhaps I didn't make myself clear.

What I should have said - what I intended to say - is the quality of health care given now is not even close to the quality given thirty long years ago. I'm not talking about medical advances. I'm talking about quality of care.

Take, for example, the situation I described regarding triage in the ED. Thirty, heck even twenty years ago, triage done by ED nurses was real. It meant something. It was an integral part of emergency department care.

If a patient presented with chest pain, they weren't asked to waste what could be precious time signing in at the registration desk. They didn't wait in line to have vital signs taken. They damned sure weren't asked for payment while they were sitting on the bed, hooked to a monitor, stressed to the max and already frightened.

That's just one example of the decline in quality of care. I could give you more, but I won't bore anyone.

Maybe the quality of care has declined because.....nobody cares anymore.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm a bottom line guy. Results matter.

Personally...I don't give a rats behind if the surgeon about to operate on one of my loved ones has the bedside manner of Alec Baldwin. I don't care if the doctor and hospital wanted to assure themselves of payment.

If you want hand holding, we have friends, family, churches and many other resources.

If you think it is "bad" today, wait and see what happens if the government takes over.

Again, you missed my point. I don't want "hand-holding", but I do want intelligent care. I want someone who is taking care of me or one of my loved ones - hell, even one of my enemies - to fire up a brain cell or two now and again.

We will have to disagree, because my viewpoint in different from yours. I've been in this field for nearly 35 years, so I know what's up with it. I also know that basic, common-sense care has greatly declined. Whether that is a result of crappy education and training of health care workers is debatable, but, considering the quality of many of the health care workers being turned out today, I am beginning to think it may have to do with poor education, basic aptitude and lowered standards for selection of candidates for health care schools.

Ah, well. I sadly digress.

Markle wrote:

Azadeh wrote:

Markle wrote:

PBulldog2 wrote:

Markle wrote:

PBulldog2 wrote:

Markle wrote:
Why do Progressives refuse to answer why they DEMAND inferior health care?

Markle, we have inferior care NOW. I don't see how it can get much worse. It is nothing like it was thirty years ago.

Take note of the post I just wrote on another thread about health care. The person I referenced did not receive even "good" care, and he is a fully-insured person.

I don't even want to think about the quality of care given to people who are indigent or under-insured.

Thank goodness for that!

We have the finest quality health care in the world. Yes it is expensive and there are many, realistic ways to bring down the cost without destroying what we have today.

You missed my point, Markle. Then again, perhaps I didn't make myself clear.

What I should have said - what I intended to say - is the quality of health care given now is not even close to the quality given thirty long years ago. I'm not talking about medical advances. I'm talking about quality of care.

Take, for example, the situation I described regarding triage in the ED. Thirty, heck even twenty years ago, triage done by ED nurses was real. It meant something. It was an integral part of emergency department care.

If a patient presented with chest pain, they weren't asked to waste what could be precious time signing in at the registration desk. They didn't wait in line to have vital signs taken. They damned sure weren't asked for payment while they were sitting on the bed, hooked to a monitor, stressed to the max and already frightened.

That's just one example of the decline in quality of care. I could give you more, but I won't bore anyone.

Maybe the quality of care has declined because.....nobody cares anymore.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm a bottom line guy. Results matter.

Personally...I don't give a rats behind if the surgeon about to operate on one of my loved ones has the bedside manner of Alec Baldwin. I don't care if the doctor and hospital wanted to assure themselves of payment.

If you want hand holding, we have friends, family, churches and many other resources.
If you think it is "bad" today, wait and see what happens if the government takes over.

Markle, the government is already involved in healthcare. SHEESH.

See U.S.P.S..

As you know, GOVERNMENT is why health insurance premiums are so high and so drastically different even between adjoining states. My guess is that you don't even know.

I know more than you think I do about it, Markle.

Azadeh wrote:

Markle wrote:

Azadeh wrote:

Markle wrote:

PBulldog2 wrote:

Markle wrote:

PBulldog2 wrote:

Markle wrote:
Why do Progressives refuse to answer why they DEMAND inferior health care?

Markle, we have inferior care NOW. I don't see how it can get much worse. It is nothing like it was thirty years ago.

Take note of the post I just wrote on another thread about health care. The person I referenced did not receive even "good" care, and he is a fully-insured person.

I don't even want to think about the quality of care given to people who are indigent or under-insured.

Thank goodness for that!

We have the finest quality health care in the world. Yes it is expensive and there are many, realistic ways to bring down the cost without destroying what we have today.

You missed my point, Markle. Then again, perhaps I didn't make myself clear.

What I should have said - what I intended to say - is the quality of health care given now is not even close to the quality given thirty long years ago. I'm not talking about medical advances. I'm talking about quality of care.

Take, for example, the situation I described regarding triage in the ED. Thirty, heck even twenty years ago, triage done by ED nurses was real. It meant something. It was an integral part of emergency department care.

If a patient presented with chest pain, they weren't asked to waste what could be precious time signing in at the registration desk. They didn't wait in line to have vital signs taken. They damned sure weren't asked for payment while they were sitting on the bed, hooked to a monitor, stressed to the max and already frightened.

That's just one example of the decline in quality of care. I could give you more, but I won't bore anyone.

Maybe the quality of care has declined because.....nobody cares anymore.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm a bottom line guy. Results matter.

Personally...I don't give a rats behind if the surgeon about to operate on one of my loved ones has the bedside manner of Alec Baldwin. I don't care if the doctor and hospital wanted to assure themselves of payment.

If you want hand holding, we have friends, family, churches and many other resources.
If you think it is "bad" today, wait and see what happens if the government takes over.

Markle, the government is already involved in healthcare. SHEESH.

See U.S.P.S..

As you know, GOVERNMENT is why health insurance premiums are so high and so drastically different even between adjoining states. My guess is that you don't even know.

I know more than you think I do about it, Markle.

Obviously you do not or you would have posted the reasons.

PBulldog2 wrote:

Markle wrote:

PBulldog2 wrote:

Markle wrote:

PBulldog2 wrote:

Markle wrote:
Why do Progressives refuse to answer why they DEMAND inferior health care?

Markle, we have inferior care NOW. I don't see how it can get much worse. It is nothing like it was thirty years ago.

Take note of the post I just wrote on another thread about health care. The person I referenced did not receive even "good" care, and he is a fully-insured person.

I don't even want to think about the quality of care given to people who are indigent or under-insured.

Thank goodness for that!

We have the finest quality health care in the world. Yes it is expensive and there are many, realistic ways to bring down the cost without destroying what we have today.

You missed my point, Markle. Then again, perhaps I didn't make myself clear.

What I should have said - what I intended to say - is the quality of health care given now is not even close to the quality given thirty long years ago. I'm not talking about medical advances. I'm talking about quality of care.

Take, for example, the situation I described regarding triage in the ED. Thirty, heck even twenty years ago, triage done by ED nurses was real. It meant something. It was an integral part of emergency department care.

If a patient presented with chest pain, they weren't asked to waste what could be precious time signing in at the registration desk. They didn't wait in line to have vital signs taken. They damned sure weren't asked for payment while they were sitting on the bed, hooked to a monitor, stressed to the max and already frightened.

That's just one example of the decline in quality of care. I could give you more, but I won't bore anyone.

Maybe the quality of care has declined because.....nobody cares anymore.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm a bottom line guy. Results matter.

Personally...I don't give a rats behind if the surgeon about to operate on one of my loved ones has the bedside manner of Alec Baldwin. I don't care if the doctor and hospital wanted to assure themselves of payment.

If you want hand holding, we have friends, family, churches and many other resources.

If you think it is "bad" today, wait and see what happens if the government takes over.

Again, you missed my point. I don't want "hand-holding", but I do want intelligent care. I want someone who is taking care of me or one of my loved ones - hell, even one of my enemies - to fire up a brain cell or two now and again.

We will have to disagree, because my viewpoint in different from yours. I've been in this field for nearly 35 years, so I know what's up with it. I also know that basic, common-sense care has greatly declined. Whether that is a result of crappy education and training of health care workers is debatable, but, considering the quality of many of the health care workers being turned out today, I am beginning to think it may have to do with poor education, basic aptitude and lowered standards for selection of candidates for health care schools.

Ah, well. I sadly digress.

[i]I am beginning to think it may have to do with poor education, basic aptitude and lowered standards for selection of candidates for health care schools.

I couldn't agree with you more. I'm retired now, but I have a son that's still in there day to day, slogging away. He says the level of knowledge of their fields is just a shadow of the knowledge of the older employees who are now retiring. Another change in healthcare is the hospitals are now hiring their own in-house physicians. The pay is usually less than having your own practice, but the rewards are, no hassle of running your own office, predictable hours, more time at home and time off. Down side is the patient is the hospital's patient and follow-up care is done elsewhere.

Markle wrote:

Azadeh wrote:

Markle wrote:

Azadeh wrote:

Markle wrote:

PBulldog2 wrote:

Markle wrote:

PBulldog2 wrote:

Markle wrote:
Why do Progressives refuse to answer why they DEMAND inferior health care?

Markle, we have inferior care NOW. I don't see how it can get much worse. It is nothing like it was thirty years ago.

Take note of the post I just wrote on another thread about health care. The person I referenced did not receive even "good" care, and he is a fully-insured person.

I don't even want to think about the quality of care given to people who are indigent or under-insured.

Thank goodness for that!

We have the finest quality health care in the world. Yes it is expensive and there are many, realistic ways to bring down the cost without destroying what we have today.

You missed my point, Markle. Then again, perhaps I didn't make myself clear.

What I should have said - what I intended to say - is the quality of health care given now is not even close to the quality given thirty long years ago. I'm not talking about medical advances. I'm talking about quality of care.

Take, for example, the situation I described regarding triage in the ED. Thirty, heck even twenty years ago, triage done by ED nurses was real. It meant something. It was an integral part of emergency department care.

If a patient presented with chest pain, they weren't asked to waste what could be precious time signing in at the registration desk. They didn't wait in line to have vital signs taken. They damned sure weren't asked for payment while they were sitting on the bed, hooked to a monitor, stressed to the max and already frightened.

That's just one example of the decline in quality of care. I could give you more, but I won't bore anyone.

Maybe the quality of care has declined because.....nobody cares anymore.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm a bottom line guy. Results matter.

Personally...I don't give a rats behind if the surgeon about to operate on one of my loved ones has the bedside manner of Alec Baldwin. I don't care if the doctor and hospital wanted to assure themselves of payment.

If you want hand holding, we have friends, family, churches and many other resources.
If you think it is "bad" today, wait and see what happens if the government takes over.

Markle, the government is already involved in healthcare. SHEESH.

See U.S.P.S..

As you know, GOVERNMENT is why health insurance premiums are so high and so drastically different even between adjoining states. My guess is that you don't even know.

I know more than you think I do about it, Markle.

Obviously you do not or you would have posted the reasons.

I disagree. I don't feel I need to post my particular reasons. I am confident enough to say that I know more about it than you think I do.

Azadeh wrote:

Markle wrote:
Markle, the government is already involved in healthcare. SHEESH.

See U.S.P.S..

As you know, GOVERNMENT is why health insurance premiums are so high and so drastically different even between adjoining states. My guess is that you don't even know.

I know more than you think I do about it, Markle.

Obviously you do not or you would have posted the reasons.

I disagree. I don't feel I need to post my particular reasons. I am confident enough to say that I know more about it than you think I do.

You sound like a child in kindergarten on the playground. "My daddy can beat up your daddy"!

Once again....
As you know, GOVERNMENT is why health insurance premiums are so high and so drastically different even between adjoining states. My guess is that you don't even know.



You just can't make these things up!