Five Best American Movies... ever

My list changes over time but right now it includes two John Huston directed features and one he appeared in:

Chinatown

The Maltese Falcon and

The Treasure of the Sierra Madre...   then I'd have to go with:

Strangelove... and either:

Citizen Kane or

The Godfather...   or maybe:

Kane and then Godfather or Strangelove--depending on which one I last saw on TCM.

I dunno, I think Strangelove beats Godfather because when I saw it at the theatre in '64 it changed the way I think about, well, things. Four years later, in '72, Godfather just reinforced my already cynical worldview. Strangelove helped form it. And Chinatown isn't necessarily at the top of the list but it's damn sure in it. Mine anyway.

So maybe I should move Strangelove higher up on the list and ditch Maltese Falcon or Sierra Madre.

I dunno, I'm gonna have to think about this...

more later

P.S. In the unlikely event anyone posts in reply to this, please post YOUR OWN DAMN OPINION, and maybe some explanatory stuff about why you think that way. Don't just post some AFI list or something.

del.capslock wrote:My list changes over time but right now it includes two John Huston directed features and one he appeared in:

Chinatown

The Maltese Falcon and

The Treasure of the Sierra Madre...   then I'd have to go with:

Strangelove... and either:

Citizen Kane or

The Godfather...   or maybe:

Kane and then Godfather or Strangelove--depending on which one I last saw on TCM.

I dunno, I think Strangelove beats Godfather because when I saw it at the theatre in '64 it changed the way I think about, well, things. Four years later, in '72, Godfather just reinforced my already cynical worldview. Strangelove helped form it. And Chinatown isn't necessarily at the top of the list but it's damn sure in it. Mine anyway.

So maybe I should move Strangelove higher up on the list and ditch Maltese Falcon or Sierra Madre.

I dunno, I'm gonna have to think about this...

more later

P.S. In the unlikely event anyone posts in reply to this, please post YOUR OWN DAMN OPINION, and maybe some explanatory stuff about why you think that way. Don't just post some AFI list or something.

Not surprised to see The Treasure of the Sierra Madre on your list. It's a good list of classic movies. I try to stay away from movie lists until awards time. If pressed I'll list The Beast of Yucca Flats as my #1 movie in honor of Bob.

Sal wrote:Definitely top 5 on my list ...

Wasn't bad but for me the best thing about it was that it reminded me to watch Sullivan's Travels again.

From Wikipedia re: Yucca Flats:

Some critics have characterized the film as one of the worst science fiction horror films made, and one of the all-time worst films of any kind, even suggesting that it may be worse than Ed Wood's legendarily bad Plan 9 from Outer Space.

Worse than Plan 9? Well, okay... whatever.

del.capslock wrote:From Wikipedia re: Yucca Flats:

Some critics have characterized the film as one of the worst science fiction horror films made, and one of the all-time worst films of any kind, even suggesting that it may be worse than Ed Wood's legendarily bad Plan 9 from Outer Space.

Worse than Plan 9?  Well, okay...  whatever.

Worse in a bad way, unlike Plan 9, the worst in a good way. Both films boasted Tor Johnson who was a much better actor than George Steele.

I think Citizen Kane is fake #45's favorite movie. Of course Kane would have made a better president.

Evil dead is on my list. "This is my boomstick"

wolfhouse wrote:Evil dead is on my list. "This is my boomstick"

Ash rules.

Agh, only five?  I'm positive I'll forget something that should have been in there.  But, I'll give it a shot.  If I do it again tomorrow it'll probably be different.

#1. - Apocalypse Now.  (this one will show up no matter what day I make out the list)

2. Godfather/Godfather II (I'm cheating and counting them as one movie - it's a saga!)

3. The Exorcist

4.  Jaws

5. Double Indemnity

I'm wanting to throw things like Night of the Living Dead and Texas Chainsaw Massacre in there, but those are more personal favorites than greatest-movies-ever, I guess. The Conversation feels like it should be in there.  I'd also want to throw in more film noir, a few classic Westerns, and Goodfellas and Saving Private Ryan and... yeah, I'm bad at just picking five.

And I actually like Beast of Yucca Flats, for its terribleness.  But, then, I even have a little fondness for Manos Hands of Fate.

zsomething wrote:Agh, only five?  I'm positive I'll forget something that should have been in there.  But, I'll give it a shot.  If I do it again tomorrow it'll probably be different.

#1. - Apocalypse Now.  (this one will show up no matter what day I make out the list)

2. Godfather/Godfather II (I'm cheating and counting them as one movie - it's a saga!)

3. The Exorcist

4.  Jaws

5. Double Indemnity

I'm wanting to throw things like Night of the Living Dead and Texas Chainsaw Massacre in there, but those are more personal favorites than greatest-movies-ever, I guess. The Conversation feels like it should be in there.  I'd also want to throw in more film noir, a few classic Westerns, and Goodfellas and Saving Private Ryan and... yeah, I'm bad at just picking five.

And I actually like Beast of Yucca Flats, for its terribleness.  But, then, I even have a little fondness for Manos Hands of Fate.

Did you know they made a video game based on Manos? The Creeping Terror is another good one. Hope this page is perking up. I spent over a year lurking on it after I noticed I was being stalked by a deranged forum member.

Telstar wrote:




Did you know they made a video game based on Manos? The Creeping Terror is another good one. Hope this page is perking up. I spent over a year lurking on it after I noticed I was being stalked by a deranged forum member.

I hadn't seen a video game... but I'd definitely want to play as Torgo!

Love Creeping Terror, especially when you can see sneakers under monster when it's eating people.

Hopefully there won't be any stalkers around. At least I'm in another state, so that might help.

zsomething wrote:

Telstar wrote:




Did you know they made a video game based on Manos? The Creeping Terror is another good one. Hope this page is perking up. I spent over a year lurking on it after I noticed I was being stalked by a deranged forum member.

I hadn't seen a video game... but I'd definitely want to play as Torgo!

Love Creeping Terror, especially when you can see sneakers under monster when it's eating people.

Hopefully there won't be any stalkers around.  At least I'm in another state, so that might help.

So am I. Pity those that made eye contact with the loathsome beast.

I can't find one list by serious critics that rates Apocalypse in the top ten. I saw it when it came out and I've seen it a bunch since. I can't figure out why people think it's so great, I don't get what point Coppola was trying to make. War is chaotic hell? It was a great spectacle like Ben Hur but not a great movie. Hell, I thought Ben Hur was great movie when I was a kid.

Double Indemnity is definitely out for me because every time I see Fred McMurray I think "My Three Sons".

del.capslock wrote:I can't find one list by serious critics that rates Apocalypse in the top ten. I saw it when it came out and I've seen it a bunch since. I can't figure out why people think it's so great, I don't get what point Coppola was trying to make. War is chaotic hell? It was a great spectacle like Ben Hur but not a great movie. Hell, I thought Ben Hur was great movie when I was a kid.

Double Indemnity is definitely out for me because every time I see Fred McMurray I think "My Three Sons".

I think of Fred more often as the shitty married boss bonking Shirley MacLaine or the shit heel Mr Keefer getting a face full of champaign from Jose Ferrer. Good directors know he plays a mean prick.

Apocalypse Now, Coppola's powerful retelling of Conrad's Heart of Darkness was #28 on the AFI's original top 100 list in 1998.

Upon its release, Apocalypse Now received near-universal critical acclaim. In his original review, Roger Ebert wrote, "Apocalypse Now achieves greatness not by analyzing our 'experience in Vietnam', but by re-creating, in characters and images, something of that experience".[58] In his review for the Los Angeles Times, Charles Champlin wrote, "as a noble use of the medium and as a tireless expression of national anguish, it towers over everything that has been attempted by an American filmmaker in a very long time".[57]

Ebert added Coppola's film to his list of The Great Movies, stating: "Apocalypse Now is the best Vietnam film, one of the greatest of all films, because it pushes beyond the others, into the dark places of the soul. It is not about war so much as about how war reveals truths we would be happy never to discover".[59]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_Now

I disagree with Ebert, I don't think it's even the best Vietnam movie. I think Platoon better. Sure, Apocalypse is more spectacular, but Oliver Stone actually served in 'Nam and I think he captures the fundamental fucked-upness of that war better--at least from the grunt's point of view. And fuck a bunch of Joseph Conrad!

By the way, Tel, you just posted that AHS Name Game bit on Politics. What a great piece of movie making. Just think of all the effort that went into that two minute and 48 second scene. Just the editing alone must have taken days. I think Joanie has a small part, she's playing Pepper, right?

del.capslock wrote:I can't find one list by serious critics that rates Apocalypse in the top ten. I saw it when it came out and I've seen it a bunch since. I can't figure out why people think it's so great, I don't get what point Coppola was trying to make. War is chaotic hell? It was a great spectacle like Ben Hur but not a great movie. Hell, I thought Ben Hur was great movie when I was a kid.

Double Indemnity is definitely out for me because every time I see Fred McMurray I think "My Three Sons".

Eh, tastes vary, but Apocalypse Now is my favorite, at least among American movies (if we weren't limited to America, I'd be throwing some Sergio Leone onto that list). Even though I don't like Joseph Conrad, I thought Coppola improved "Heart of Darkness" by moving it into the Vietnam war. It's one of those rare movies that improves on its source material (another is The Innocents - it managed to find a really good story amidst all of Henry James' horrible prose).

What I like about it is that it builds toward total madness. At the beginning of the movie you think Willard is a total headcase (and he is), but by the end of the movie he seems like one of the sanest people in the country. The farther they go, the more civilization is stripped away. By the end, even half of the boat is jungle. It does a good job of building up the craziness.

The Redux version has some good things in it, but it kind of screws up the momentum. The French Plantation scene really threw the "civilization being stripped away" motif off, so I can see why they cut that.

And, yeah, it is kind of hard to get around Fred McMurray being hardboiled, but, it still works for me. I was going to go with Kiss Me Deadly but, I dunno, not in the top five. And I had to have some noir in there. Narrow Margin would also be a contender.

del.capslock wrote:I disagree with Ebert, I don't think it's even the best Vietnam movie. I think Platoon better. Sure, Apocalypse is more spectacular, but Oliver Stone actually served in 'Nam and I think he captures the fundamental fucked-upness of that war better--at least from the grunt's point of view. And fuck a bunch of Joseph Conrad!

By the way, Tel, you just posted that AHS Name Game bit on Politics. What a great piece of movie making. Just think of all the effort that went into that two minute and 48 second scene. Just the editing alone must have taken days. I think Joanie has a small part, she's playing Pepper, right?

Platoon was a great movie about the Vietnam war. Apocalypse Now was a great movie about the darkness of man's soul. Maybe Pepper but I doubt there is enough makeup in the whole world that can transform her into Naomi Grossman.

zsomething wrote:

del.capslock wrote:I can't find one list by serious critics that rates Apocalypse in the top ten. I saw it when it came out and I've seen it a bunch since. I can't figure out why people think it's so great, I don't get what point Coppola was trying to make. War is chaotic hell? It was a great spectacle like Ben Hur but not a great movie. Hell, I thought Ben Hur was great movie when I was a kid.

Double Indemnity is definitely out for me because every time I see Fred McMurray I think "My Three Sons".

Eh, tastes vary, but Apocalypse Now is my favorite, at least among American movies (if we weren't limited to America, I'd be throwing some Sergio Leone onto that list).   Even though I don't like Joseph Conrad, I thought Coppola improved "Heart of Darkness" by moving it into the Vietnam war.   It's one of those rare movies that improves on its source material (another is The Innocents - it managed to find a really good story amidst all of Henry James' horrible prose).

What I like about it is that it builds toward total madness.  At the beginning of the movie you think Willard is a total headcase (and he is), but by the end of the movie he seems like one of the sanest people in the country.  The farther they go, the more civilization is stripped away.  By the end, even half of the boat is jungle.  It does a good job of building up the craziness.

The Redux version has some good things in it, but it kind of screws up the momentum.  The French Plantation scene really threw the "civilization being stripped away" motif off, so I can see why they cut that.

And, yeah, it is kind of hard to get around Fred McMurray being hardboiled, but, it still works for me.  I was going to go with Kiss Me Deadly but, I dunno, not in the top five.  And I had to have some noir in there.  Narrow Margin  would also be a contender.

I consider Once Upon A Time in the West to be the most overrated film of all time. A Fistfull of Dollars is okay but not up to Kurosawa's Yojimbo. McMurray was more cold blooded than hardboiled.

Telstar wrote:


I consider Once Upon A Time in the West to be the most overrated film of all time. A Fistfull of Dollars is okay but not up to Kurosawa's Yojimbo. McMurray was more cold blooded than hardboiled.

Like I said, tastes are different. I like the opening bit to Once Upon A Time in the West, where he does a lot with very little. But, to some people it's incredible tedium. Mostly I'm into Good the Bad and the Ugly. But I know people who hate that one, too.

Do love the hell out of Yojimbo, though. Kurosawa's always good, and I'll watch anything with Toshiro Mifune in it.

The most overrated film of all time, in my book, is Oldboy. I seem to be the only person who thinks that thing's crap, but I've given it several chances and still hate it. I don't like Chan-wook Park's movies in general. He makes films that look beautiful and amazing, but the substance and narrative structure is lousy. But, again, I seem to be one of the few that think that. A friend made me sit through The Housemaid recently and, nope. I hated it less than Park's other stuff, but still hated it. I think his fans are dazzled by the cinematography and don't go beyond that. As films, they're issues of Architectural Digest -- lots of pretty pictures, but trying to get a decent story out of it is crazy.

Another contender would be Cabin in the Woods. I run into more people who liked that thing and I've seldom hated a film more...

zsomething wrote:

Telstar wrote:


I consider Once Upon A Time in the West to be the most overrated film of all time. A Fistfull of Dollars is okay but not up to Kurosawa's Yojimbo. McMurray was more cold blooded than hardboiled.

Like I said, tastes are different.  I like the opening bit to Once Upon A Time in the West, where he does a lot with very little.  But, to some people it's incredible tedium.  Mostly I'm into Good the Bad and the Ugly.   But I know people who hate that one, too.

Do love the hell out of Yojimbo, though.  Kurosawa's always good, and I'll watch anything with Toshiro Mifune in it.

The most overrated film of all time, in my book, is Oldboy.  I seem to be the only person who thinks that thing's crap, but I've given it several chances and still hate it.  I don't like Chan-wook Park's movies in general.  He makes films that look beautiful and amazing, but the substance and narrative structure is lousy.  But, again, I seem to be one of the few that think that.   A friend made me sit through The Housemaid recently and, nope.  I hated it less than Park's other stuff, but still hated it.  I think his fans are dazzled by the cinematography and don't go beyond that.  As films, they're issues of Architectural Digest -- lots of pretty pictures, but trying to get a decent story out of it is crazy.

Another contender would be Cabin in the Woods.   I run into more people who liked that thing and I've seldom hated a film more...

My favorite thing about Once was a Jack Elam interview talking about how they put watermelon on his face to attract the fly. Love, Good, Bad, Ugly. Big fan of Cabin in the Woods. Sigourney Weaver's reaction when she finds she will have to settle for a non virgin sacrifice. Japan's obsession with school girls and the merman.

Telstar wrote:
Platoon was a great movie about the Vietnam war. Apocalypse Now was a great movie about the darkness of man's soul.

Maybe that's why I don't like it. Pretentious speculation about the "darkness of man's soul" just annoys the piss out of me. I always feel like bitchslapping the director and saying "Just tell the goddamn story!"  

Probably why I prefer Altman to Coppola and why I think Godfather was much better movie than Apocalypse...   until he fucked it up with Godfather III, that is.

del.capslock wrote:

Telstar wrote:
Platoon was a great movie about the Vietnam war. Apocalypse Now was a great movie about the darkness of man's soul.

Maybe that's why I don't like it. Pretentious speculation about the "darkness of man's soul" just annoys the piss out of me. I always feel like bitchslapping the director and saying "Just tell the goddamn story!"  

Probably why I prefer Altman to Coppola and why I think Godfather was much better movie than Apocalypse...   until he fucked it up with Godfather III, that is.

Altman? MASH was a dark comedy, about the Korean war. The music of the Doors was never put to better use. Has anyone seen Skull Island? I hear it's very influenced by Apocalypse Now.

I remember an SNL cartoon with the real audio of John McCain giving in and endorsing Bush in 2004. Before he could spit it out he went off stage and recreated the scene with Martin Sheen going nuts in his room, with The Doors music playing.