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Forum republicans: Step up and state your specific objections to Obama's recent executive order involving guns

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Hospital Bob
polecat
TEOTWAWKI
Markle
EmeraldGhost
Sal
gatorfan
2seaoat
boards of FL
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Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Does anyone here really believe that Obama's latest gun control proposals will reduce the gun crime in Chicago?

Vikingwoman



The dealer doesn't have to be told anything. It can just be denied.

boards of FL

boards of FL

Bob wrote:Does anyone here really believe that Obama's latest gun control proposals will reduce the gun crime in Chicago?


Holding all other factors that exhibit an influence on Chicago gun crime constant, yes.

Your question is akin to asking "Does anyone really believe that implementing speed limits will reduce traffic fatalities?"


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boards of FL

boards of FL

PkrBum wrote:Only the useful idiots.


So have we reached the end of your contribution? "They're like...taking away my constitutional rights...or something." Is that all you had to say? I ask because I directly addressed your primary concern...twice...and you don't appear to have anything further to add.

Is that it?


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Sal

Sal

Bob wrote:Does anyone here really believe that Obama's latest gun control proposals will reduce the gun crime in Chicago?

Yes.

You should watch last night's townhall.

This was addressed directly.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

boards of FL wrote:
Bob wrote:Does anyone here really believe that Obama's latest gun control proposals will reduce the gun crime in Chicago?


Holding all other factors that exhibit an influence on Chicago gun crime constant, yes.  

Your question is akin to asking "Does anyone really believe that implementing speed limits will reduce traffic fatalities?"


A better analogy would be the question "Did Prohibition reduce the consumption of alcohol?"

The answer is no because we are an alcohol culture.  Same as we're a gun culture.

And if an outright ban,  as Prohibition was,  did not do what was intended,  then how are these half-assed mickey mouse gun control measures going to do it either.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Salinsky wrote:
Bob wrote:Does anyone here really believe that Obama's latest gun control proposals will reduce the gun crime in Chicago?

Yes.

You should watch last night's townhall.

This was addressed directly.

So someone said it would?  lol

okay,  I'll bite,  what did they say to make you believe it will?

Sal

Sal

Bob wrote:

A better analogy would be the question "Did Prohibition reduce the consumption of alcohol?"

The answer is no because we are an alcohol culture. 

Of course it did.

Prohibition was a failure, but not because it didn't reduce consumption.


Second, alcohol consumption declined dramatically during Prohibition. Cirrhosis death rates for men were 29.5 per 100,000 in 1911 and 10.7 in 1929. Admissions to state mental hospitals for alcoholic psychosis declined from 10.1 per 100,000 in 1919 to 4.7 in 1928.

Arrests for public drunkennness and disorderly conduct declined 50 percent between 1916 and 1922. For the population as a whole, the best estimates are that consumption of alcohol declined by 30 percent to 50 percent.

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/10/16/opinion/actually-prohibition-was-a-success.html

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Salinsky wrote:
Bob wrote:

A better analogy would be the question "Did Prohibition reduce the consumption of alcohol?"

The answer is no because we are an alcohol culture. 

Of course it did.

Prohibition was a failure, but not because it didn't reduce consumption.


Second, alcohol consumption declined dramatically during Prohibition. Cirrhosis death rates for men were 29.5 per 100,000 in 1911 and 10.7 in 1929. Admissions to state mental hospitals for alcoholic psychosis declined from 10.1 per 100,000 in 1919 to 4.7 in 1928.

Arrests for public drunkennness and disorderly conduct declined 50 percent between 1916 and 1922. For the population as a whole, the best estimates are that consumption of alcohol declined by 30 percent to 50 percent.

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/10/16/opinion/actually-prohibition-was-a-success.html


The beginning seemed promising -- in 1921, the annual per capita consumption of alcohol dipped about 75% to 0.2 gallons, down from 0.8 gallons in 1919. However, by 1929, per capita consumption had steadily risen to 1.3 gallons. In other words, within a few years of the 18th Amendment being ratified, alcohol consumption returned to pre-Prohibition levels.

http://priceonomics.com/did-prohibition-reduce-drinking/

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

And remember,  we're talking about a total ban on the sale of all alcohol.

Not some mickey mouse little controls on it.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Go ahead,  enact these gun control measures and let's see what happens.

I've already got the two guns and all the ammo for them I'll ever need so I frankly don't give a shit.  I just think these gun control measures are much ado about nothing.

boards of FL

boards of FL

Bob wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
Bob wrote:Does anyone here really believe that Obama's latest gun control proposals will reduce the gun crime in Chicago?


Holding all other factors that exhibit an influence on Chicago gun crime constant, yes.  

Your question is akin to asking "Does anyone really believe that implementing speed limits will reduce traffic fatalities?"


A better analogy would be the question "Did Prohibition reduce the consumption of alcohol?"


Forum republicans:  Step up and state your specific objections to Obama's recent executive order involving guns - Page 4 Hl9oHsk


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Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

As you can see,  that chart absolutely contradicts the info I just found.  That by 1929,  four years before Prohibition was repealed,  the consumption of alcohol had returned to pre-Prohibition levels.

So what am I supposed to believe?

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

But regardless of all the charts and webpages,  if anyone is going to try to tell me that Prohibition worked,  that person is full of shit up to his eyeballs.
It absolutely did not work. 

And I repeat,  that was a total ban.  Not the half assed little measures proposed for gun control.

Sal

Sal

You do know that the sale of alcohol is regulated and restricted by the government, right Bob?

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Salinsky wrote:You do know that the sale of alcohol is regulated and restricted by the government, right Bob?

How well I know.  I couldn't buy it until I was 21 and then I could buy ALL I wanted.  Except on Sunday if you lived in the south but all I had to do was buy it on Saturday to drink on Sunday. 
So limit the gun sales to anyone over 21 and stop selling them on Sunday and see how much the gun crime goes down.  I'm all for it.  lol

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Here's an alternative proposal.

Go ahead and adopt Obama's gun control measures but add something to it.
Make it a mandatory 20 year prison sentence without parole for anyone found guilty of committing a felony while in the possession of a firearm.

I doubt any of it will have much effect but that will give me a "feel good" law to go along with yours.  lol

2seaoat



Vehicle safety had the same old foggy naysayers.....I remember in my eighth grade speech class having to debate seatbelts..........Oh you will burn up in your car if you are strapped into the car.....you will drown if you go into a lake.....and later with air bags they will kill you(some did), but the societal goal of safety was not the simplistic talking points found on this thread, but a process of dialogue, technology, and good data. We cannot have dialogue on this issue because of the gun lobby fights safety like GM fought Ralph Nader in his crusade against the corvair, we cannot have technology because some misguided constitutional principles oblivious to the tenets of recent clear supreme court cases assume that guns cannot be regulated as to safety, and finally most important government cannot even collect good data because Congress and the special interests which control the same will not allow studies by the CDC which could allow rational fact based discussions.

This is a start. In less than twenty years gun deaths in America per capita will significantly be reduced because of this process. But please.....do not wear your seat belt and deactivate your air bags.....cause they make no difference.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Jesus,  now we have to wait 20 years to find out if it works.  lol

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

I thought these gun control measures were supposed to help stop bad guys and nuts from getting guns immediately after they're enacted.  Not 20 years from now.

This is now starting to sound like John McCain and his 100 years in Iraq.  lol

2seaoat



I did some night graduate work in the seventies when I was working for Borg Warner based out of Chicago with the head of the Chicago ATF who I was in some classes. He was a bright and extremely perceptive guy. His biggest complaint was manpower. I have told a story how a town the size of Pensacola got taken over by the gangs and had 30 murders a year based on gang violence. The cops were dirty and the gangs had virtual control. The feds came in with justice, the FBI, and ATF and in a huge influx of the feds in two years they had the murder rate down to 1 for three years running and cold case prosecuted with a joint task force. My daughter prosecuted a double murder ten year old case within the structure of the task force and won with front page coverage. They shut the bastards down. I have talked about the Indiana gun shops for years, and when PK and I have gone over to Horseshoe casino in Hammond you can see the guns shops lined up at the border where you just literally have to walk across the street to buy a gun.......if my classmate was bitching about manpower thirty years ago, it is tenfold a problem. Yes, there will be immediate impact, but after I saw the work of the task force and the cleaning out of a broken local system infested with gang influence.......murders dropped, and have stayed down. I knew one of those statistics.........I told him to go back to school.....he was selling crack eight balls and making two grand.....he went back to school....got a hair cut and was gunned down by three Latin Kings who laughed at their indictment.......this chit matters.....real people are being killed. It is time for dialogue and good faith, and it is time to stop being afraid.

Markle

Markle

Vikingwoman wrote:The dealer doesn't have to be told anything. It can just be denied.

What are you talking about?

Markle

Markle

Salinsky wrote:
Bob wrote:Does anyone here really believe that Obama's latest gun control proposals will reduce the gun crime in Chicago?

Yes.

You should watch last night's townhall.

This was addressed directly.

Specifically how will anything mandated by semi-retired President Obama reduce gun crime in Chicago.

2seaoat



Specifically how will anything mandated by semi-retired President Obama reduce gun crime in Chicago.




Additional manpower going after felony gunshops and the subsequent straw private sales.......This is a start, and I would like to see the task force concept applied to Chicago with the new assets attacking with the FBI, Justice, and ATF cutting the hearts out of these folks:

http://www.streetgangs.com/cities/chicago#sthash.BuwimA80.dpbs

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