The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom.....William Blake

2seaoat

2seaoat

Posts : 36130
Join date : 2012-08-30

On another thread folks are angry with me because I questioned the need for 51k foot libraries in the rapidly evolving world of digital conveyance of information. We all want to go back to Mayberry, and sadly if we do not engage our brains we will condemn our children to despair.

This idea that building palatial settings which are beyond excess simply escapes logic or reason, and the wisdom gained will be deprivation on a scale not yet imagined.......yet I.....like the small child being told how beautiful the emperor's new clothes are.... simply say......he has no clothes.

The excesses of our society have caused the inevitable. There once was a time where a library was a map to wisdom, but to quote:

What is grand is necessarily obscure to weak men. That which can be made explicit to the idiot is not worth my care.
William Blake

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

Posts : 15420
Join date : 2010-07-10
Age : 73

2seaoat wrote:On another thread folks are angry with me because I questioned the need for 51k foot libraries in the rapidly evolving world of digital conveyance of information. We all want to go back to Mayberry, and sadly if we do not engage our brains we will condemn our children to despair.

This idea that building palatial settings which are beyond excess simply escapes logic or reason, and the wisdom gained will be deprivation on a scale not yet imagined.......yet I.....like the small child being told how beautiful the emperor's new clothes are.... simply say......he has no clothes.

The excesses of our society have caused the inevitable. There once was a time where a library was a map to wisdom, but to quote:

What is grand is necessarily obscure to weak men. That which can be made explicit to the idiot is not worth my care.
William Blake

Oh, horsefeathers, Seaoat, no one's mad at you. You're simply misinformed. No harm done. Now, if you want to talk about a baseball stadium...that might be another matter entirely. Somehow the bricks and mortar of a library seem much more important than those of a baseball stadium, and, unless you're chronically late like I am, the library is...wait for it...FREE.

Guest

Guest

People who argue over a fucking library have taken the word bordom to a whole nother level Neutral

As a wise woman once told me( Myself) never keep all your things online, the power might go out and the hard drive may be wiped clean.

And as a hooker once told me, a dick in hand is better than one in the ass. I have no idea what she meant.

2seaoat

2seaoat

Posts : 36130
Join date : 2012-08-30

the library is...wait for it...FREE.

A five million dollar budget.....and they have reduced the hours 33%.....and you think a library is free......

To quote a learned person........horsefeathers.

2seaoat

2seaoat

Posts : 36130
Join date : 2012-08-30

People who argue over a fucking library have taken the word bordom to a whole nother level

A fool sees not the same tree that a wise man sees.
William Blake

So perhaps we are fools to discuss the library.

Guest

Guest

2seaoat wrote:People who argue over a fucking library have taken the word bordom to a whole nother level

A fool sees not the same tree that a wise man sees.
William Blake

So perhaps we are fools to discuss the library.

Perhaps you are.

Since discussing the library brings neither joy or purpose to any possiblity.

I mean really, when you consider topics, Im not sure they could get any more boring than a library, perhaps rocks or dirt. But at least with rocks and dirt you could discuss geology or insects, habitats etc. But with a library conversation all you got is one main focus, hard copy books or keep it online. That about sums it up. a matter of 2 views. Nothing more. No in depth interesting side talk. Nothing.

carry on. I know this is a real BIG deal for you. Get your cape out and ride on brother to save the world from fucking libraries. Rolling Eyes

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

Posts : 15420
Join date : 2010-07-10
Age : 73

Chrissy wrote:People who argue over a fucking library have taken the word bordom to a whole nother level

As a wise woman once told me( Myself) never keep all your things online, the power might go out and the hard drive may be wiped clean.

And as a hooker once told me, a dick in hand is better than one in the ass. I have no idea what she meant.

Your preoccupation with sex is sooooo one-dimensional.

Watcher

Watcher

Posts : 271
Join date : 2012-11-15

Floridatexan wrote:

Chrissy wrote:People who argue over a fucking library have taken the word bordom to a whole nother level

As a wise woman once told me( Myself) never keep all your things online, the power might go out and the hard drive may be wiped clean.

And as a hooker once told me, a dick in hand is better than one in the ass. I have no idea what she meant.

Your preoccupation with sex is sooooo one-dimensional.

And boring.

Guest

Guest

Floridatexan wrote:

Chrissy wrote:People who argue over a fucking library have taken the word bordom to a whole nother level

As a wise woman once told me( Myself) never keep all your things online, the power might go out and the hard drive may be wiped clean.

And as a hooker once told me, a dick in hand is better than one in the ass. I have no idea what she meant.

Your preoccupation with sex is sooooo one-dimensional.

I'm sure it is. But somebody has to do it.

I dont think people here appreciate how hard it has been on me to have to try and keep the sexy in this forum for so many years. I really deserve a medal. Do you know how much thought it takes to incert sexy into many of these threads? It takes a lot out of a person.

Its a very important part of life having that sexy feeling between your groins occasionally. You just cant sit here all the time with your pants on having conversations about libraries and expect any normal hot blooded body to not get excited.

The mind boggles at the sexy librarian with her fish net stockings and long long hair in a bun jst as she lets it flow down rubbing against your flesh. nope, its impossible. Any time you start talking libraries peopel get horny so just live with it.

lol!

Sal

Sal

Posts : 16311
Join date : 2012-06-13

Watcher wrote:

And boring.

And trashy.

Guest

Guest

Sal wrote:

Watcher wrote:

And boring.

And trashy.

boo hoo

I keep my dolly pardon wig clean. Cool

2seaoat

2seaoat

Posts : 36130
Join date : 2012-08-30

What is grand is necessarily obscure to weak men. That which can be made explicit to the idiot is not worth my care.
William Blake

Markle

Markle

Posts : 17531
Join date : 2012-06-16
Age : 79
Location : Tallahassee

Chrissy wrote:

2seaoat wrote:People who argue over a fucking library have taken the word bordom to a whole nother level

A fool sees not the same tree that a wise man sees.
William Blake

So perhaps we are fools to discuss the library.

Perhaps you are.

Since discussing the library brings neither joy or purpose to any possiblity.

I mean really, when you consider topics, Im not sure they could get any more boring than a library, perhaps rocks or dirt. But at least with rocks and dirt you could discuss geology or insects, habitats etc. But with a library conversation all you got is one main focus, hard copy books or keep it online. That about sums it up. a matter of 2 views. Nothing more. No in depth interesting side talk. Nothing.

carry on. I know this is a real BIG deal for you. Get your cape out and ride on brother to save the world from fucking libraries.

Then why are you posting on this thread?

Guest

Guest

2seaoat wrote:the library is...wait for it...FREE.

A five million dollar budget.....and they have reduced the hours 33%.....and you think a library is free......

To quote a learned person........horsefeathers.

The total revenue investment in Florida’s public libraries is $449 million.
The total economic return attributable to the existence of the public libraries is
$2.9 billion — based on an analysis of what would happen if the public libraries
ceased to exist: includes the net benefits (added costs to use alternatives), the
benefits that would be lost because users would not bother to use alternatives, and
revenues that would be lost by vendors, contractors, etc.
Using State Library and Archives of Florida data and data from the surveys described
above, the REMI (Regional Economic Modeling Inc.) model looked at the initial public
investment in public libraries ($443 million
2
) and considered the implications of not
funding the public libraries, but of redistributing the money to alternative government
spending activities. Projecting forward over 32 years (2004-2035), the REMI model
indicated that if funding for public libraries was reallocated across Florida’s government
sectors, the state economy would result in a net decline of $5.6 billion in wages and
68,700 in jobs.
For every $6,448 spent on public libraries from public funding sources (federal,
state and local) in Florida, one job is created.
For every dollar of public support spent on public libraries in Florida, GRP
increases by $9.08
For every dollar of public support spent on public libraries in Florida, income
(wages) increases by $12.66http://dlis.dos.state.fl.us/bld/roi/pdfs/ROISummaryReport.pdf

2seaoat

2seaoat

Posts : 36130
Join date : 2012-08-30

Simply no argument that Libraries add to the economic growth of a society which invests in the same. However, when you invest in brick and mortar instead of a library......then you are comparing apples to oranges.

First, Mr. Markle made a very good analogy earlier. He talked about a lawyer who does all his research online. My daughter never goes to a law library. She can sit in her SA office and get every case written on her desk in a second, or can do a search which boggles the mind. When graduate students do their research.....they do not go to stacks of books....they may bring a laptop to the library.....but they go to the library because it is a quiet place to study....not to browse paper books.

Now, there was a nice story about the firefighter who lost his life in 2000 and how he would stop in the library and read. A smaller library without all this investment in brick and mortar would still serve the public. The real question is when you build these monsters, and as sure as the sun will rise.....across the nation.....library districts are cutting hours of operation to make sense of the broken budgets as these monsters suck the revenues out of the system.

No, we need an efficient new model for modern libraries which do not involve these white elephants. I have seen three library districts repeat the mistake of Pensacola.....and now going on eight years the reduced hours and ever changing technology make these white elephants into a focus of resentment in the communities.

No, like lawyers, like doctors, like students......we need to bring the library to our students. We need to open the world.....but when you waste resources and misdirect the remaining precious resources to maintain brick and mortar......nope the excess will sadly lead to the castle of wisdom.....on the backs of children who deserved better.

Guest

Guest

From the Hass Center Study

Escambia County
*ROI estimate: $14.67 return for every $1 spent.
Cost to library users or user investment: $51,907,510
Cost to use alternatives to library: $105,727,557
Community economic benefits lost: $20,572,078
Lost use benefits: $1,417,180
Total net benefit: $53,820,047
Economic return: $75,809,306
County Demographics:
Population: 328,051
Households: 109,806
Median Household Income: $44,217
Library Revenue:
Per capita revenue Escambia County: $14.74
Per capita revenue Florida: $36.35
Per capita revenue United States: $33.87
If public library revenue were redirected to other government entities, Escambia
County would LOSE:
Gross County Product (npv): $25,361,685
Personal Income (npv): $55,918,931
Average annual jobs produced: 33
Gross County Product increase for every dollar spent: $5
Income increase for every dollar spent: $12

Guest

Guest

Neither you or Mr Marlke have a dog in this fight. IMHO it is just any set of people trying to save us from our selves. If you really gave a damn you would get personally involved with local Escamibia co Issues. You missed a damn good chance to tell the people who are "Bone Stupid" how dumb they are at the Grand opening. I refuse to let you just continue to berate something that a lot of us are personally involved it. But then posting here dosent do any thing to change the issue. . Rant on..

2seaoat

2seaoat

Posts : 36130
Join date : 2012-08-30

Cost to use alternatives to library: $105,727,557

nonsense......who is talking about alternatives....we are talking about bringing library science into the modern era.....as they kick and scream as to their relevancy. The library has basically become the equivalent of the travel agent of years past. A person facing great intellectual challenges may need the assistance to buy a simple ticket....so there will always be a need for a travel agent.....some may simply be lazy, and want somebody else to do the leg work......but a librarian should be in the grade schools teaching the keys to the universe......not building masoleums to bury a dead concept which has been passed by technology.

Small efficient libraries must always remain, but instruction in grade school and making those libraries available to the public is the challenge over the next decade.....these white elephants will be like pony express stables in a bygone era........sorry it is not the library or no library.....it is the evolution of the failed current paradigm into a workable and efficient platform for children to blossom. Sorry.......fancy buildings are the road of excess.....and sadly this will lead to the palace of wisdom when every child will hold the key to paradise.....knowledge....within their grasp.

2seaoat

2seaoat

Posts : 36130
Join date : 2012-08-30

Neither you or Mr Marlke have a dog in this fight

Sorry my friend.....but I have fought this battle three times. Not in Pensacola. I have been very vocal, and attended meetings. I have seen the arrogance of the folks who run libraries telling me what technology cannot do, or how they cannot get around copyright laws.....nonsense.....utter nonsense.....they are keeping their bureaucracy relevant by design. No every American has a dog in this fight......if you are so myopic not to have seen this debate in other communities......then I guess the mistakes are bound to be repeated when people simply allow bureaucrats to run their lives and do not become involved........33% reduction in hours of operation and you think we have no dog in this fight as children are simply falling further and further behind.....brick and mortar......yep.....lets keep up with the Jones.....and forget the purpose at hand.......shutter library hours.....and build monster buildings which will forever suck resources from the public meant to be served.....your right we should not discuss this at all.........but lets revisit this if I am still around in three years and see if a kid from Century has a dog in this fight.

Guest

Guest

Not in Pensacola. LOL That says it all. Good night Mr Oats.....

Guest

Guest

SeaOat, what good is it to grouse about the Library largesse, which may or may not be excessive? I haven't seen it. But the addition has been built. Since the addition is here, it seems that we ought to use it... make it successful... or should it go fallow so we can serve those fortunate enough to have computers and Kindles and Internet connections?

Guest

Guest

Markle wrote:

Chrissy wrote:

2seaoat wrote:People who argue over a fucking library have taken the word bordom to a whole nother level

A fool sees not the same tree that a wise man sees.
William Blake

So perhaps we are fools to discuss the library.

Perhaps you are.

Since discussing the library brings neither joy or purpose to any possiblity.

I mean really, when you consider topics, Im not sure they could get any more boring than a library, perhaps rocks or dirt. But at least with rocks and dirt you could discuss geology or insects, habitats etc. But with a library conversation all you got is one main focus, hard copy books or keep it online. That about sums it up. a matter of 2 views. Nothing more. No in depth interesting side talk. Nothing.

carry on. I know this is a real BIG deal for you. Get your cape out and ride on brother to save the world from fucking libraries.

Then why are you posting on this thread?

Because there was this topic already on another thread and seaoat felt the need to have another. and since I self apointed myself as the seaoat nagger, i posted here.Notice i stayed off the other thread? yes, i did.

you see, seaoat is a privialged snob. even with this topic he thinks everyone has a kindle or can get one, he is not aware not all houses have internet and thier very own computer. he thinks he is up to date. man oh man he is, he just not on the same planet with the poor people. i urge himto repent of his greedy ways before its too late. he needs to donate 10000 kindles to the library now.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Posts : 22918
Join date : 2012-06-13
Location : Armpit of Florida

This is all nothing more than just another part of the digital/electronic technology revolution debate.
The question of whether we still need libraries with printed books is the same question as do we still need print versions of newspapers. Or do we still need movie theaters to exhibit movies. Or do we still need a landline telephone. Or do we still need a Shopper paper for classified advertising.
The answer is that we are in transition. There is still a place for all of those things but they are all gradually losing ground. And with enough time it will all go the way of the horse and buggy.

Guest

Guest

Bob, anyone who cares, read this study from the Hass Center. IMHO the term library" is some what dated. New libraries are crossing the gap and incorporating education along with recreation with a area for social exchange.
This a well thought out endeavor created by some of the smartest people in the area. Not something thrown together to enrich the pockets of a few "Bone Stupid" people. There have been no major remodeling at the library since 1957!!! 46 years ago. Now that we have invested money in our future, people go nuts and attempt to diminish the advancement of our city. Rest assured, we have pissed away much more than 7 million dollars in the last 46 years on projects and schemes that benefited no one except a selected few. This is not one of them. Just wait until we open the new community center/branch library at Legion field. These people will have a heart attack.. All is good. The new library is built and being used. A new focal point for the city. All is good. I am happy.

Here is a link to the Hass Center study
http://haas.uwf.edu/library/library_study/draftfinal_noapp.pdf

2seaoat

2seaoat

Posts : 36130
Join date : 2012-08-30

And with enough time it will all go the way of the horse and buggy.

Exactomongo.....wise one...........and we will have the huge barn full of hay 300 yards from the house when that fancy internal combustion engine carriage needs some place to park....drink coffee....sit on the floor with 18 kids and read illustrated stories to justify taking care of Wilbur and the new fancy barn.

We can keep wilbur.....it will be quaint.....let us just scale back the the damn barn, and build a garage that can house an auto which.......attaches to the home.

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The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom.....William Blake

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2seaoat

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Floridatexan

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Watcher

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Sal

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2seaoat

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Markle

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