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Did Trump Suffer a Heart Attack From Snorting Too Much Adderall on Saturday??

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Floridatexan

Floridatexan
RealLindaL wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
Put down the olive branch, Linda.  If you haven't noticed, we're in a battle for the soul of our country.

Well excuse me, Ms. FT, please come down off your high horse and refrain from telling me what to do or what to "notice," for Pete's sake.  

Being in this crucial national battle doesn't give us the right to accuse specific individuals in this small forum arena of things they've never said or done, which happens whenever we sweepingly condemn all Republicans of certain acts (I'm as guilty as the next person of doing just that, and it should stop, on both sides).  

When we stoop to the nasty personal combativeness of the Trumpian level we've already lost, if not the battle, then something sacred and irreplaceable -- our integrity.

It's "Mrs.". Aren't you the one who posted in all caps that we must have a centrist Dem for president..."mark my words"? Or was that someone else?
I completely disagree, BTW. We need fundamental change, or we won't have anything approaching a democratic republic...we'll have masters and virtual slaves...and don't go thinking "it can't happen here", because it already is. I'm not one to "go along to get along". What you may see as personal combativeness is more likely to be self-assertiveness and the expression of an instinct for self-preservation.

RealLindaL


Floridatexan wrote:Aren't you the one who posted in all caps that we must have a centrist Dem for president..."mark my words"?

Shows how much attention you pay to what anyone else posts, MRS. FT.  What I said was that if we NOMINATE a far left candidate, we will lose the election, period.  I wasn't talking about how the new president will govern; only that he/she not be Trump, get it?  

We'll have to deal with how to bring on your desired new U.S. socio-economic order only after first ridding the White House of the cancerous scourge now dwelling there.  He is a one-man death knell for our nation, aided by all his cabinet cohorts whom we must also purge.

So, "in case you hadn't noticed," I'm convinced the main goal for most of us right now - above all else -  should be to get rid of Trump the Terrible, and that outcome will ALMOST CERTAINLY require a centrist candidate who can win over the all-important Independent and older Dem voting factions, along with all those Republicans (they do exist) who will vote against Trump if the alternative is not so frighteningly removed from their own political ideals.

Ignore all that at your own peril, Democrats.  And yes, MARK MY WORDS on it.  I just hope against hope I won't be saying "I told you so" come next November.  

Look, I understand "self-assertiveness and the expression of an instinct for self-preservation," but, as I was also trying to say, in the process of that expression we should strive not to become what we condemn in others.

__MS. Linda, married and proud of it, but my status is nobody else's business.

Sal

Sal
RealLindaL wrote:that outcome will ALMOST CERTAINLY require a centrist candidate who can win over the all-important Independent and older Dem voting factions, along with all those Republicans (they do exist) who will vote against Trump if the alternative is not so frighteningly removed from their own political ideals.

This is conventional thinking, but these are unconventional times.

Polls are pretty clear that the motivating factor for voters of all stripes who are inclined to join a Democratic coalition is singularly a desire to beat Trump.

This may provide the perfect opportunity for the ushering in of a truly progressive agenda that will provide the big structural changes this nation sorely needs.

RealLindaL


Sal wrote:
RealLindaL wrote:that outcome will ALMOST CERTAINLY require a centrist candidate who can win over the all-important Independent and older Dem voting factions, along with all those Republicans (they do exist) who will vote against Trump if the alternative is not so frighteningly removed from their own political ideals.

This is conventional thinking, but these are unconventional times.

No, what this is is logical thinking.

Polls are pretty clear that the motivating factor for voters of all stripes who are inclined to join a Democratic coalition is singularly a desire to beat Trump.

Absolutely.  We are in agreement.

This may provide the perfect opportunity for the ushering in of a truly progressive agenda that will provide the big structural changes this nation sorely needs.

We couldn't be in further disagreement.  This is the absolute wrong time to usher in a progressive agenda, which will, beyond the shadow of a doubt, frighten away the critically important voting factions I mentioned above.  I'm utterly flabbergasted that progressives can't see this.  This is the time to at least temporarily put away  one's personal hopes for a new socio-economic order, for the greater good of GETTING RID OF TRUMP. I'm firmly convinced you can't have it both ways, people.  It's great that you're excited about your progressive candidates, but there's far too great a danger that they simply won't be able to beat Trump.  Is that a chance you're willing to take?  Is it?   ___RLL  

Floridatexan

Floridatexan
RealLindaL wrote:
Sal wrote:
RealLindaL wrote:that outcome will ALMOST CERTAINLY require a centrist candidate who can win over the all-important Independent and older Dem voting factions, along with all those Republicans (they do exist) who will vote against Trump if the alternative is not so frighteningly removed from their own political ideals.

This is conventional thinking, but these are unconventional times.

No, what this is is logical thinking.

Polls are pretty clear that the motivating factor for voters of all stripes who are inclined to join a Democratic coalition is singularly a desire to beat Trump.

Absolutely.  We are in agreement.

This may provide the perfect opportunity for the ushering in of a truly progressive agenda that will provide the big structural changes this nation sorely needs.

We couldn't be in further disagreement.  This is the absolute wrong time to usher in a progressive agenda, which will, beyond the shadow of a doubt, frighten away the critically important voting factions I mentioned above.  I'm utterly flabbergasted that progressives can't see this.  This is the time to at least temporarily put away  one's personal hopes for a new socio-economic order, for the greater good of GETTING RID OF TRUMP. I'm firmly convinced you can't have it both ways, people.  It's great that you're excited about your progressive candidates, but there's far too great a danger that they simply won't be able to beat Trump.  Is that a chance you're willing to take?  Is it?   ___RLL  


Why a Centrist Candidate Won’t Win the Presidency

In today’s divisive political climate, there isn’t much appetite for middle ground

Herb Bowie

Mar 11

As the U.S. political scene transitions from the midterms to the beginning of the 2020 presidential contest, one of the most pressing questions is whether any meaningful middle ground remains in the political spectrum.

This will certainly be a question for Democrats to consider in their primaries, but it’s recently emerged as a key concern as a result of Starbucks founder Howard Schultz announcing his availability to run for president as a centrist independent.

We must ask: Exactly what does an avowed centrist believe in these days?
One of the traditional ways to be deemed a “centrist” is to call yourself a social liberal and a fiscal conservative. But where does this leave you? You don’t gain any libertarian votes because you believe in moderate gun control and some reasonable degree of federal taxation. You lose the Religious Right because you believe in a woman’s right to abortion and LGBTQ rights. You lose the mostly older, mostly pale, mostly male voters who are obsessed with sending all the immigrants back to wherever they came from and slapping a wall right behind them.

Ergo, you give up all hope of support from Fox News and the right-wing media. But that’s okay, right? You’re a centrist, so you’re trying to position yourself to the left of those nutjobs.

By contrast, let’s turn our attention to the extremists on the other end of the spectrum. As a centrist, you lose those who believe growing income inequality is a social justice issue that necessitates changing our laws and tax policies to better provide for workers, children, and consumers — and to make things a bit less cushy for rich people.

Who remains? Those who somehow don’t think we need to Make America Great Again, but do believe all we need is a sort of Return to Normalcy after the great aberration of the Trump presidency? Those worried about saddling the next generation with astronomical national debt but not worried about leaving them with a hotter planet and no affordable homes?

Hardly anyone today thinks that these are normal times that call for a normal leader.

What is your rallying cry? Which hot-button issues motivate your base? Balancing the budget? Most of us think this is important, but very few of us would place the issue anywhere near the top of our list of concerns.

The chief political strategy of both sides in recent years has been demonization of its opponents. How do you take part in this strategy as a centrist? Do you try to convincingly demonize those on both the right and the left? Fight a political war on two fronts at the same time? Hand out hats in a calming color that say “Make America Normal Again” or “Back to Center”?

My sense is the chief centrist voting bloc consists of business owners, executives, middle managers, and professionals — people who feel they’re doing pretty well and want to avoid rocking the boat. Those in the 9.9 percent of people who make up Matthew Stewart’s “New American Aristocracy.” Even if you can somehow motivate all of these people to come out and vote for you, it’s not a large enough group to support a successful presidential run.
The basic problem for a centrist, I think, is that hardly anyone today thinks these are normal times that call for a normal leader.

Many Americans seem to believe that abortion, birth control, homosexuality, criminals, Muslims, and people of color are ruining our nation. They fear nothing more than a “normal” leader who would let those forces proceed unchecked. Another sizable group of Americans believes that climate change is real and that we must do something about it before it gets worse. They fear nothing more than a “normal” leader who would fiddle while the world burns.
Yet another group believes rising levels of income inequality are not only dangerous and unpleasant for a great many Americans, but also a threat to the very integrity of our social order. This group wants nothing to do with a centrist leader who would allow these disturbing economic trends to continue apace.

A final, and no doubt overlapping, contingent believes our society lacks all sense of social justice. In their eyes, open season has been declared on people of color, LGBTQ people, and non-Christians. This group certainly wants nothing to do with a centrist leader who thinks there is some “normal” American condition worth returning to.

In short, some of us want to return to the past, while others want to venture into an as-yet-unknown future. Hardly anyone wants to stay where we are, or even go back to where we were four years ago.

I think most of us have some idea of what a right-wing worldview looks like these days. We may not agree with it, but we can recognize it. Likewise, most of us have some idea of what a progressive worldview looks like. Again, we may not agree with it, but we understand how the world appears from this perspective.

But how does the world currently appear through the eyes of a centrist? Is there some way to split the difference between the far right and the far left? I think most of us can’t quite figure out what the world looks like through a centrist lens.

What does this leave us with as an image of a centrist leader? The only thing I can conjure up is a Jet Ski that has lost its rider, quietly spinning in circles to avoid doing any damage.

And that’s not an inspiring picture for a presidential candidate.

https://medium.com/s/story/is-there-any-middle-left-d1dcd9df484f

*************

RealLindaL


Who the hell is Herb Bowie?

Further, where is the EVIDENCE for his pivotal statement, "Hardly anyone today thinks that these are normal times that call for a normal leader"?

First of all, who, precisely, is saying these are normal times??  No one I  know, and no one you know.  But just because they're not presently normal, doesn't mean most people don't desperately want a normal, reasonable, leader.

In fact, I can just as easily as Bowie posit the following:

"Most people today are STARVING for the normalcy a centrist leader can provide."

And here's the fact: My "evidence" is just as compelling as his - i.e., it's because I think so.  Go ahead and refute it with what YOU think, but don't give us B.S. cut and pasted from someone else's personal opinion we've never even heard of, and post it as if it were gospel.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

It's the policies, Linda. We need fundamental change. If Obama had a flaw, it was failing to prosecute the war criminals Bush & Cheney. Now we have a *resident who flaunts the law at every turn. Why do you even think he'll be the eventual nominee? I think he'll go down long before the elections really kick off. I think the GOP will try to pull another Hail Mary, just like they did with Bush in 2000. But it won't work this time. Too many people have seen too much. *resident *rump is going down.

Meanwhile, there's work to be done reversing his and the GOP's dismal policies. Except for the presidencies of Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, we've had nothing but "trickle down" economics, or as my fellow Texan Jim Hightower calls it, "tinkle down", since 1980. Think about that, and then tell me how we need someone who won't rock the boat.

PkrBum

PkrBum
https://www.longislandpress.com/2017/01/14/obamas-legacy-historic-war-on-whistleblowers/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2018/06/08/seizing-journalists-records-an-outrage-that-obama-normalized-for-trump/%3foutputType=amp

https://www.aclu.org/video/aclu-ccr-lawsuit-american-boy-killed-us-drone-strike

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/judge-rejects-obamas-executive-privilege-claim-over-fast-and-furious-records-217970

RealLindaL


Floridatexan wrote:
It's the policies, Linda.  We need fundamental change.  If Obama had a flaw, it was failing to prosecute the war criminals Bush & Cheney.  Now we have a *resident who flaunts the law at every turn.  Why do you even think he'll be the eventual nominee?  I think he'll go down long before the elections really kick off.  I think the GOP will try to pull another Hail Mary, just like they did with Bush in 2000.  But it won't work this time.  Too many people have seen too much.  *resident *rump is going down.  

Meanwhile, there's work to be done reversing his and the GOP's dismal policies.  Except for the presidencies of Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, we've had nothing but "trickle down" economics, or as my fellow Texan Jim Hightower calls it, "tinkle down", since 1980.  Think about that, and then tell me how we need someone who won't rock the boat.

Why do I even think Trump will be the GOP's nominee?  Are you kidding me? As utterly unfathomable as it seems to you and me, his popularity and approval ratings with Republicans remain unfailingly high, last I looked.  And he'll use the House impeachment (which has to be done, no matter what) and the subsequent Senate vote-down of removal, as his triumphant kicking-off point, laughing all the way.  

Look, FT, I'd love beyond love to see him go down, too, but I'm afraid it simply ain't gonna happen.   No way the party will allow such a popular incumbent vote-getter to lose the nomination.  No way, unless something really major happens in the interim (and I don't mean a House vote to impeach, which will roll off his back like water off a duck's).

And yes, if we're fortunate enough to win back the White House, there's a HUGE amount of work to be done to reverse this administration's damaging policies and the broken agencies, from intelligence to the EPA, that the Donald and his cronies have left in their wake.  I believe a top notch liberal centrist can and will work hard to do just that, and it could easily take a full first term, if not longer.  After that "repair period" of perhaps not being able to concentrate on your desired new goals, if the president's policies don't match your needs and the rest of the Dems agree, then maybe they can talk about moving forward with a different candidate.  

But right now, FT, as I hope most of us agree, the one, dire, CRITICAL goal must be to GET DONALD TRUMP THE HELL OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE.    It's just this simple: Whoever is most likely to make sure that happens is who we MUST have as the Democratic candidate, even if it means your progressive dreams have to take a back seat for a while longer.

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