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National foreign policy and the military

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othershoe1030

othershoe1030


This is more of a military question: How far removed from our national foreign policy does a president's order have to be before the military leaders refuse to carry it out? How far out of the protocol does it have to be before someone slips him a sedative and lets a tad bit of time pass before having a "big boy" discussion with him about our military goals, long standing objectives, enemies and allies?

I was not too worried about him having the nuclear codes because I was sure that no one around him would carry such an order out, if he were to give that order. It seems to me that what he's done these past three days has turned our entire approach to the region on its head.

It is just criminal that the Kurds are now asking the Russians to protect them, that Turkey is following through on his invitation to "come on in" to the Kurd's stronghold and massacre civilians. He says basically, who cares? The ISIS fighters are just going to return to Europe, no problem.

I just can't believe we have special forces stranded, have betrayed our Kurdish allies and handed the region to Putin and Turkey. Also, what does Israel think of all this? I haven't heard a thing about them yet. Isn't anyone in the military able to keep him from destroying our national reputation? I certainly understand that the president is the commander in chief but when it is so obvious that his orders are directly opposed to our national objectives...

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

DOD refusing to honor congressional subpoena. Another corrupt Republican and Trump appointee. I'm so disgusted I have to walk away from this today.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/10/16/1892878/-Department-of-Defense-refuses-to-obey-congressional-subpoena-despite-impeachment-inquiry?utm_campaign=trending

Telstar

Telstar
Floridatexan wrote:
DOD refusing to honor congressional subpoena.  Another corrupt Republican and Trump appointee.  I'm so disgusted I have to walk away from this today.  

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/10/16/1892878/-Department-of-Defense-refuses-to-obey-congressional-subpoena-despite-impeachment-inquiry?utm_campaign=trending




Law doesn't matter any more. Did you see the new Joker movie? The Joker is born when three would be rapist punk wall street brokers threaten a young woman on the subway. The Jokers laughter directs their attention toward him, until he pulls a gun out and blasts all three bastards away. The Gotham headline reads "KILL THE RICH!' Who knows, it could become a trend.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

Foreign Policy:

U.S. Vice President Mike Pence is expected to meet Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan in Ankara today to negotiate over Turkey’s ongoing offensive against Kurdish militia in northern Syria. Pence is traveling with a delegation that includes Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. Ahead of the meeting, Erdogan has pledged that Turkey “will never declare a cease-fire.”

The U.S. negotiating position may be undermined by recent comments by U.S. President Donald Trump, who said that the conflict was “over land that has nothing to do with us” and that the Kurds—former U.S. allies—were “no angels.” On Wednesday, the House of Representatives voted to condemn the withdrawal by a large margin of 354-60, including most House Republicans.

Trump has threatened to issue further sanctions and tariffs against Turkey if the meeting between Pence and Erdogan does not go well. On Wednesday he added to those threats in a bizarre letter to Erdogan in which he wrote: “Don’t be a tough guy. Don’t be a fool!”

Rising tensions. Adding to the pressure on Turkey, U.S. federal prosecutors unsealed an indictment of the Turkish Halkbank for helping Iran evade U.S. sanctions between 2012 and 2016. The indictment was likely ready, but the Trump administration presented it when U.S. anger at Turkey pushed the bilateral relationship over the edge, FP’s Keith Johnson and Elias Groll explain.

Waning influence. Syrian and Russian troops entered the strategic city of Kobani on Wednesday, before Turkish forces could arrive. As the Russia-backed Syrian army advances into towns and bases once occupied the United States, it underscores the victory the U.S. withdrawal has given to Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, the Washington Post reports. The power vacuum created by the U.S. abandonment of its Kurdish allies should also send chills down the spines of European leaders, argues Garvan Walshe in FP, because “if Europe doesn’t bolster its defenses, the Poles, Lithuanians, and Latvians could be next.”

******************




zsomething


I'm sure Trump's brilliant "Don't be a tough guy" letter will straighten everything right now. It'll impress the Turks so much that they won't dare do anything. Trump has the respect of the world! Rolling Eyes

Really, I don't know why Trump doesn't just Skype foreign leaders and do armpit-farts while pointing at them... it'd be less absurd.

Trump's very lucky that his base are even stupider than he is, so they don't understand how ridiculous he's being. The country's really just being divided into normal people and absolute idiots at this point. And, honestly, I think we should start exploiting the idiots. We're going to have to put up with them, so we should start getting compensation by selling them pork-chop-tree seeds or something, at least make their idiocy lucrative, the way the churches have.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030
Once again, DJT Tweets his opinion of Nancy Pelosi's mental state, reflecting, of course, him once again projecting his own situation onto someone else.

With the vote yesterday in the House


U.S. House overwhelmingly votes to condemn Trump's Syrian ...
Search domain wisconsinexaminer.com/2019/10/17/u-s-house-overwhelmingly-votes-to-condemn-trumps-syrian-troop-withdrawal/https://wisconsinexaminer.com/2019/10/17/u-s-house-overwhelmingly-votes-to-condemn-trumps-syrian-troop-withdrawal/
WASHINGTON — The U.S. House on Wednesday approved a resolution condemning President Donald Trump's withdrawal of U.S. troops from northern Syria. The resolution passed the House with broad bipartisan support, delivering a stinging rebuke to the president. The final vote was 354-60. Every member of Wisconsin's Congressional delegation ...

We haven't seen anything this disorganized since this:

PkrBum

PkrBum
What was the vote result when Obama initiated our involvement in that imperial regime change?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-ends-covert-cia-program-to-arm-anti-assad-rebels-in-syria-a-move-sought-by-moscow/2017/07/19/b6821a62-6beb-11e7-96ab-5f38140b38cc_story.html

Y'all are for military adventurism... you just haven't realized it yet. Take a look at the POTUS as each sustained military engagement has begun beginning with WWI.

Notice any patterns?

Telstar

Telstar
othershoe1030 wrote:Once again, DJT Tweets his opinion of Nancy Pelosi's mental state, reflecting, of course, him once again projecting his own situation onto someone else.

With the vote yesterday in the House


U.S. House overwhelmingly votes to condemn Trump's Syrian ...
Search domain wisconsinexaminer.com/2019/10/17/u-s-house-overwhelmingly-votes-to-condemn-trumps-syrian-troop-withdrawal/https://wisconsinexaminer.com/2019/10/17/u-s-house-overwhelmingly-votes-to-condemn-trumps-syrian-troop-withdrawal/
WASHINGTON — The U.S. House on Wednesday approved a resolution condemning President Donald Trump's withdrawal of U.S. troops from northern Syria. The resolution passed the House with broad bipartisan support, delivering a stinging rebuke to the president. The final vote was 354-60. Every member of Wisconsin's Congressional delegation ...

We haven't seen anything this disorganized since this:






Nixon's the One but Don is #2




National foreign policy and the military Turd11

Floridatexan

Floridatexan
zsomething wrote:I'm sure Trump's brilliant "Don't be a tough guy" letter will straighten everything right now.   It'll impress the Turks so much that they won't dare do anything.   Trump has the respect of the world!   Rolling Eyes

Really, I don't know why Trump doesn't just Skype foreign leaders and do armpit-farts while pointing at them... it'd be less absurd.

Trump's very lucky that his base are even stupider than he is, so they don't understand how ridiculous he's being.  The country's really just being divided into normal people and absolute idiots at this point.  And, honestly, I think we should start exploiting the idiots.   We're going to have to put up with them, so we should start getting compensation by selling them pork-chop-tree seeds or something, at least make their idiocy lucrative, the way the churches have.

lol! lol! lol! lol! lol!

Here's the letter:

"Dear Mr. President:

Let’s work out a good deal! You don’t want to be responsible for slaughtering thousands of people, and I don’t want to be responsible for destroying the Turkish economy—and I will. I’ve already given you a little sample with respect to Pastor Brunson.

I have worked hard to resolve some of your problems. Don’t let the world down. You can make a great deal. General Mazloum is willing to negotiate with you, and he is willing to make concessions that they never would have made in the past. I am confidentially enclosing his letter to me, just received.

History will look upon you favorably if you get this the right and humane way. It will look upon you forever as the devil if good things don’t happen. Don’t be a tough guy. Don’t be a fool!

I will call you later."

*************

Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

Houston, we have a problem:

US nuclear bombs at Turkish airbase complicate rift over Syria invasion

US officials said to be looking at moving nuclear devices as Congress plans sanctions

"An estimated 50 nuclear bombs stored at a US airbase in Turkey have become potential bargaining chips in the tense relationship between Washington and Ankara in the wake of the Turkish offensive into Syria.

Although Donald Trump gave a green light to the offensive in a phone call eight days ago with the Turkish president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, the US Congress is planning to impose severe sanctions on Turkey. Trump, facing a backlash from his party for acquiescing in the invasion, has backed punitive measures.

On Monday the EU declared an arms embargo on Turkey, and a planned bipartisan bill in Congress would sanction Turkish leaders and cut off US weapons supplies.

Erdoğan has said he will respond aggressively to western attempts to isolate Turkey and has vowed not to halt the offensive.

“We are determined to take our operation to the end. We will finish what we started,” the Turkish leader said during a visit to Baku, Azerbaijan. “A hoisted flag does not come down.”

The presence of B61 nuclear gravity bombs at İncirlik airbase, which is about 100 miles from the Syrian border and which the US air force shares with its Turkish counterpart, is complicating Washington’s calculations.

In recent days administration officials have been quietly reviewing plans to move the bombs, the New York Times reported on Monday. The report quoted a senior official as saying the bombs had become Erdoğan’s hostages and that flying them out of İncirlik would be the de-facto end of the Turkish-American alliance..."

theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/14/us-bombs-at-turkish-airbase-complicate-rift-over-syria-invasion

*************



zsomething


Oh, I'm sure the 50 nukes will be safe... Trump says they will. Rolling Eyes

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2019/10/16/trump-expresses-confidence-when-asked-if-nuclear-weapons-at-incirlik-are-safe/

Just another thing Trump handed over to his buddy, Putin. And now ISIS guys are freed and running loose again, too.

Totally safe situation, yep! Nothing to see there.

I'm just trying to imagine what our pet "what-about" would say if Obama did a tenth of this shit.

RealLindaL


zsomething wrote:I'm just trying to imagine what our pet "what-about" would say if Obama did a tenth of this shit.

It's a given - we all know the answer to that.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030
PkrBum wrote:What was the vote result when Obama initiated our involvement in that imperial regime change?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-ends-covert-cia-program-to-arm-anti-assad-rebels-in-syria-a-move-sought-by-moscow/2017/07/19/b6821a62-6beb-11e7-96ab-5f38140b38cc_story.html

Y'all are for military adventurism... you just haven't realized it yet. Take a look at the POTUS as each sustained military engagement has begun beginning with WWI.

Notice any patterns?

July 19, 2017
President Trump has decided to end the CIA’s covert program to arm and train moderate Syrian rebels battling the government of Bashar al-Assad, a move long sought by Russia, according to U.S. officials.

Officials said the phasing out of the secret program reflects Trump’s interest in finding ways to work with Russia

Trump described the limited cease-fire deal as one of the benefits of a constructive working relationship with Moscow.

Trump’s dealings with Russia have been under heavy scrutiny because of the investigations into the Kremlin’s interference in the 2016 election. The decision on the CIA-backed rebels will be welcomed by Moscow, which focused its firepower on those fighters after it intervened in Syria in 2015.

Some current and former officials who support the program cast the move as a major concession.

The Trump administration’s long-term strategy, following the defeat of the Islamic State, appears to be focused on stitching together a series of regional cease-fire deals among the U.S.-backed rebels, the Syrian government and Russia.

Some analysts said the decision to end the program was likely to empower more radical groups inside Syria and damage the credibility of the United States.

“We are falling into a Russian trap,” said Charles Lister, a senior fellow at the Middle East Institute, who focuses on the Syrian resistance. “We are making the moderate resistance more and more vulnerable. . . . We are really cutting them off at the neck.”

“This is a force that we can’t afford to completely abandon,” Goldenberg said. “If they are ending the aid to the rebels altogether, then that is a huge strategic mistake.

“People began thinking about ending the program, but it was not something you’d do for free,” said a former White House official. “To give [the program] away without getting anything in return would be foolish.”

Not everyone is ready to call Trump a Russian asset but in many areas Putin would be hard pressed to offer improvements to decisions and concessions Trump has turned over to him. Yes, I do see a pattern.

Also, since the article you posted is dated 2017, it looks even more as if this weeks decisions to turn our backs on the Kurds cannot be "excused" as a spur of the moment decision made on a whim via a phone call from one dictator to another wanna-be mob boss masquerading very poorly, as our president.

It would seem obvious that our program (pulled Sunday night by Trump) was a very effective program in which we lost very few of our military while supporting the Kurds who did the fighting and dying. Besides this fact, the betrayal of the Kurds and the disgrace this move has brought to our country to our detriment and to the benefit of Putin, Turkey and Iran can't be overstated.

This decision by The Stable Genius in his unmatched wisdom is strongly criticized by none other than Mitch McConnell.

Telstar

Telstar
RealLindaL wrote:
zsomething wrote:I'm just trying to imagine what our pet "what-about" would say if Obama did a tenth of this shit.

It's a given - we all know the answer to that.




He's been busy presiding over services as the high priest of the Whataboutism Cult. Twisted Evil

othershoe1030

othershoe1030
Fortunately and accurately, the news outlets are calling Trump's orders for our Special Forces to withdraw from their positions in northern Syria a betrayal and a double-cross. Even McConnell has written an op-ed calling it a huge blunder, a grave strategic mistake. There is no way to spin this. From the far right to the far left we see wall to wall outrage and stunned disbelief at how stupid and needless this move has been.

The cease-fire is not holding, as expected. I am ready for some out-of-the-ordinary happening, like, oh, I don't know, a resignation by The Stable Genius?  or the cast of SNL popping up saying: LIVE FROM NEW YORK! IT'S SATURDAY NIGHT!!

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