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Democrats Debate lineup

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426Democrats Debate lineup - Page 18 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup on 8/2/2019, 2:21 pm

Sal

Sal
Gabbard’s plan to overtly side with Assad and Russia while they commit crimes against humanity would be a strategic disaster, a gift to the extremists and a betrayal of decades of U.S. commitments to stand up to mass atrocities. Democratic voters who believe in liberalism and truth must reject not only her candidacy but also her attempt to disguise moral bankruptcy as a progressive value.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/tulsi-gabbards-syria-record-shows-why-she-cant-be-president/2019/08/01/f804c790-b497-11e9-8949-5f36ff92706e_story.html?utm_term=.1515b970d4c5

427Democrats Debate lineup - Page 18 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup on 8/2/2019, 2:26 pm

zsomething


bigdog wrote:I don't know much about Tulsi Gabbard

Next time just stop there, rather than keep going and making it obvious.

The Russians are propping Tulsi up not because they want her to win -- they know damn well she won't -- but because she can do damage to someone who might, and who they don't want.

Tulsi's a useful idiot and another ego-case, like Bernie. Unfortunately the Democrats have far too many candidates -- and supporters -- with zero tactical intelligence. Circular firing squad pretty well sums it up. Most conservatives are evil and moronic and easily led. A hell of a lot of liberals are naive and full of fantasyland theory that they never question. Both burden the center where most of the work gets done. People with doomed campaigns peck away at the viable people until half the base are soured on them (like the Bernie supporters who somehow think he got "cheated" even though he didn't nearly as many votes in the primary)... and then they spitefully think they can sit home and be "pure." That's how we get shit like Trump in the first place. And apparently nobody learned from that 'cuz it's just started up again.

Focus on taking down Trump and his garbage-human base, rather than tearing each other up.

428Democrats Debate lineup - Page 18 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup on 8/2/2019, 3:08 pm

othershoe1030

othershoe1030
zsomething wrote:
bigdog wrote:I don't know much about Tulsi Gabbard


The Russians are propping Tulsi up not because they want her to win -- they know damn well she won't -- but because she can do damage to someone who might, and who they don't want.  


Focus on taking down Trump and his garbage-human base, rather than tearing each other up.

Amen!!

429Democrats Debate lineup - Page 18 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup on 8/2/2019, 6:19 pm

RealLindaL


othershoe1030 wrote:
RealLindaL wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote:They have to get the base fired up and black voters have to want to back them too.

The debate format makes it tough to rile up the crowd.


Why would you want to "rile up" the crowd?  Isn't that a Trump tactic?


Why would you want to "rile up" the crowd? Are you kidding?!! You have to put a fire under people that makes them want to get out and vote!!

EXCUSE ME, PLEASE -- I presumed you knew the definition of "rile":

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rile

rile verb
\ ˈrī(-ə)l
\
riled; riling

Definition of rile

transitive verb
1 : to make agitated and angry : upset
2 : roil sense 1

Synonyms for rile:

aggravate, annoy, bother, bug, burn (up), chafe, eat, exasperate, frost, gall, get, grate, gripe, hack (off), irk, irritate, itch, nark [British], nettle, peeve, persecute, pique, put out, rasp, ruffle, spite, vex

430Democrats Debate lineup - Page 18 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup on 8/2/2019, 7:22 pm

Sal

Sal
If you ain’t angry, you ain’t paying attention.

431Democrats Debate lineup - Page 18 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup on 8/2/2019, 7:25 pm

bigdog


zsomething wrote:
bigdog wrote:I don't know much about Tulsi Gabbard

Next time just stop there, rather than keep going and making it obvious.

The Russians are propping Tulsi up not because they want her to win -- they know damn well she won't -- but because she can do damage to someone who might, and who they don't want.  

Tulsi's a useful idiot and another ego-case, like Bernie.  Unfortunately the Democrats have far too many candidates -- and supporters -- with zero tactical intelligence.  Circular firing squad pretty well sums it up.   Most conservatives are evil and moronic and easily led.   A hell of a lot of liberals are naive and full of fantasyland theory that they never question.  Both burden the center where most of the work gets done.   People with doomed campaigns peck away at the viable people until half the base are soured on them (like the Bernie supporters who somehow think he got "cheated" even though he didn't nearly as many votes in the primary)... and then they spitefully think they can sit home and be "pure."  That's how we get shit like Trump in the first place.  And apparently nobody learned from that 'cuz it's just started up again.

Focus on taking down Trump and his garbage-human base, rather than tearing each other up.
You're probably right, as I said, I don't know much about Tulsi Gabbard. I did enjoy her takedown of Kamala Harris, and I do know enough about Ms Harris to have a negative opinion of her. I'd still vote for her if she becomes the nominee, but I feel more sure today that she won't be.
I don't feel that it's the centrists on here who are attacking the progressives. We've been called Republicans, which is completely unacceptable.  And I've said since day one that I'd like either Joe Biden, a centrist, or Corey Booker, who is, I believe, pretty progressive. Corey and Joe went at each other pretty strongly last night, and it didn't bother me a bit.  I was rooting for them both to get the attention away from everybody else.
But when Booker or anyone insults Obama on the stage, like they did last night, that's insanity.  That part went way too far. 
It would be nice if people could discuss the issues that their candidates propose instead of posting labels on others and claiming they're not part of the party. That's when it becomes dangerous. Centrists do NOT claim progressives aren't democrats. I have not heard it happen. So why is it that progressives think they have the right to label at least 43% of all Democratic voters, and a huge percentage of African American voters who are centrists as not being Democratic enough? African Americans are FAR less likely to vote for Pete Butigeig, because many of them are deeply religious and their views simply don't swing that far to the left. Many of them are also pro-life, FYI. Yet, no one is excluding them from the party because they are "too centrist."
It's ridiculous. The labeling and name calling has already gone too far this election, but unless a couple of people decide to cut it out on here, I'm not seeing it stopping with us.

432Democrats Debate lineup - Page 18 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup on 8/2/2019, 7:44 pm

Telstar

Telstar
Here are the candidates that have qualified for the September debates in both polling and fundraising:

1.Former Vice President Joe Biden
2.New Jersey Sen. Cory Booker
3.Mayor Pete Buttigieg
4.California Sen. Kamala Harris
5.Minnesota Sen. Amy Klobuchar
6.Former Rep. Beto O'Rourke
7.Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders
8.Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren


https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/02/politics/september-debate-qualifiers/index.html

433Democrats Debate lineup - Page 18 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup on 8/3/2019, 10:43 am

othershoe1030

othershoe1030
RealLindaL wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote:
RealLindaL wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote:They have to get the base fired up and black voters have to want to back them too.

The debate format makes it tough to rile up the crowd.


Why would you want to "rile up" the crowd?  Isn't that a Trump tactic?


Why would you want to "rile up" the crowd? Are you kidding?!! You have to put a fire under people that makes them want to get out and vote!!

EXCUSE ME, PLEASE -- I presumed you knew the definition of "rile":

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rile

rile verb
\ ˈrī(-ə)l
\
riled; riling

Definition of rile

transitive verb
1 : to make agitated and angry : upset
2 : roil sense 1

Synonyms for rile:

aggravate, annoy, bother, bug, burn (up), chafe, eat, exasperate, frost, gall, get, grate, gripe, hack (off), irk, irritate, itch, nark [British], nettle, peeve, persecute, pique, put out, rasp, ruffle, spite, vex

You are absolutely correct. Rile has a negative connotation.  In my post I did go on to explain what I meant:

Why would you want to "rile up" the crowd? Are you kidding?!! You have to put a fire under people that makes them want to get out and vote!! I'm not talking about just getting them excited at a rally for the sake of entertainment, duh. I'm talking about voter motivation! I'm talking about firing up people who will go out with clipboards to public events and register people to vote, drive people to the polls, man phone banks. People don't do those things unless they are fired up about their candidate.

  Perhaps "inspire" would have been a better choice of words? Enjoy this clip from an Obama rally, where he fires up the crowd in a very positive way, so different from the chants at Trump's rallies!


434Democrats Debate lineup - Page 18 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup on 8/3/2019, 11:33 am

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

Democratic presidential candidate Mayor Pete Buttigieg said Democrats should "stand up for the right policy" regardless of being tagged as a socialist. From Tuesday's CNN primary debate in Detroit:

PETE BUTTIGIEG, MAYOR: It is time to stop worrying about what the Republicans will say. Look, if it's true that if we embrace a far-left agenda they're going to say we're a bunch of crazy socialists. If we embrace a conservative agenda, you know what they're going to do? They're going to say we're a bunch of crazy socialists.

So let's just stand up for the right policy, go out there and defend it.
That's the policy I'm putting forward, not because I think it's the right triangulation between Republicans here and Democrats there -- because I think it's the right answer for people like my mother-in-law who is here -- whose life was saved by the ACA, but who is still far too vulnerable to the fact that the insurance industry does not care.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/07/30/buttigieg_stop_worry_about_what_republicans_will_say_no_matter_what_theyll_call_us_crazy_socialists.html

435Democrats Debate lineup - Page 18 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup on 8/3/2019, 12:16 pm

bigdog


And yet, the progressives did a lot of criticizing of the ACA the other night, even though Mayor Pete admits it saved his mother-in-law's life.
I'll take Joe Biden's plan that builds on the ACA and offers a public option to anyone who wants to sign up for it. Let people keep their private insurance if they want to, but make the public option so attractive that eventually it will be what everyone decides they want. 
If the insurance companies are to be run out of business, it has to be done slowly. That's a big business and crippling them suddenly would cost thousands of American jobs. Nobody seems to want to talk about that.

436Democrats Debate lineup - Page 18 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup on 8/3/2019, 12:46 pm

othershoe1030

othershoe1030
Floridatexan wrote:
Democratic presidential candidate Mayor Pete Buttigieg said Democrats should "stand up for the right policy" regardless of being tagged as a socialist. From Tuesday's CNN primary debate in Detroit:

PETE BUTTIGIEG, MAYOR: It is time to stop worrying about what the Republicans will say. Look, if it's true that if we embrace a far-left agenda they're going to say we're a bunch of crazy socialists. If we embrace a conservative agenda, you know what they're going to do? They're going to say we're a bunch of crazy socialists.

So let's just stand up for the right policy, go out there and defend it.
That's the policy I'm putting forward, not because I think it's the right triangulation between Republicans here and Democrats there -- because I think it's the right answer for people like my mother-in-law who is here -- whose life was saved by the ACA, but who is still far too vulnerable to the fact that the insurance industry does not care.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/07/30/buttigieg_stop_worry_about_what_republicans_will_say_no_matter_what_theyll_call_us_crazy_socialists.html

Mayor Pete hit the nail on the head. No matter what positions we take, the GOP is going to say we are a bunch of Socialists. They can get away with this because A) They have no qualms about lying; and B) not enough voters have anything more than a very fuzzy grasp of what actual Socialism is. To them it is just some Boogy Man to be rejected.

We need to point out what Trump has done wrong, where he's sold the country down the river and then put out our vision. It has to be something with heart, a moral counter-weight to the sloth and greed that has been promoted by Trump. That would be standing up for what we believe in. We could point to that vision and say Yes We Can. The candidate and our party has to energize the electorate. We have to have a huge turn-out.

437Democrats Debate lineup - Page 18 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup on 8/3/2019, 1:16 pm

RealLindaL


othershoe1030 wrote: Enjoy this clip from an Obama rally, where he fires up the crowd in a very positive way, so different from the chants at Trump's rallies!


So different indeed. Thank you for proving my point:  Obama fires up; Trump riles up.

438Democrats Debate lineup - Page 18 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup on 8/3/2019, 1:21 pm

RealLindaL


bigdog wrote:I'll take Joe Biden's plan that builds on the ACA and offers a public option to anyone who wants to sign up for it. Let people keep their private insurance if they want to, but make the public option so attractive that eventually it will be what everyone decides they want. 
If the insurance companies are to be run out of business, it has to be done slowly. That's a big business and crippling them suddenly would cost thousands of American jobs. Nobody seems to want to talk about that.

This is SUCH a solid, wise and sensible plan -- for so many reasons including your last mentioned, very valid concern -- that I truly find it hard to understand why any Democrat would be against it. Seriously.

439Democrats Debate lineup - Page 18 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup on 8/3/2019, 1:22 pm

Telstar

Telstar
RealLindaL wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote: Enjoy this clip from an Obama rally, where he fires up the crowd in a very positive way, so different from the chants at Trump's rallies!


So different indeed. Thank you for proving my point:  Obama fires up; Trump riles up.




Obama Inspires, Trump Perspires.

440Democrats Debate lineup - Page 18 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup on 8/3/2019, 4:12 pm

othershoe1030

othershoe1030
RealLindaL wrote:
bigdog wrote:I'll take Joe Biden's plan that builds on the ACA and offers a public option to anyone who wants to sign up for it. Let people keep their private insurance if they want to, but make the public option so attractive that eventually it will be what everyone decides they want. 
If the insurance companies are to be run out of business, it has to be done slowly. That's a big business and crippling them suddenly would cost thousands of American jobs. Nobody seems to want to talk about that.

This is SUCH a solid, wise and sensible plan -- for so many reasons including your last mentioned, very valid concern -- that I truly find it hard to understand why any Democrat would be against it.  Seriously.

This is the approach I like the best also. Anything other than offering a public option that's so attractive will have them screaming Socialist. Besides, this follows the capitalist notion of letting the market place decide. If the public option allows for the negotiation of drug prices it will bring prices down.

Instead of squabbling among themselves, Democrats need to point out how many times the GOP has voted to try to get rid of all of the ACA. On top of that they have no plan that anyone has seen so no one knows if it is more attractive than what they already have.

The bottom line though, is DJT's total lack of character. We have to make it about him and what an incompetent president he has been, how much more chaos we can stand, how many of our allies we can continue to alienate etc.

BTW, Medicare only covers 80% of covered charges. Why is no one point that out? So, anyone opting for a public option may still be in the private insurance market as are those of us who have supplemental policies that cover the other 20% of expenses.

441Democrats Debate lineup - Page 18 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup on 8/3/2019, 8:27 pm

bigdog


Yep. I have Medicare, but I also pay for an AARP Medigap policy every month. I wouldn't want to do without it. I rarely get any medical bills above five or six dollars. 
Medicare doesn't cover it all, so even Medicare for all is not a perfect solution.

442Democrats Debate lineup - Page 18 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup on 8/4/2019, 12:49 am

RealLindaL


Telstar wrote:
RealLindaL wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote: Enjoy this clip from an Obama rally, where he fires up the crowd in a very positive way, so different from the chants at Trump's rallies!


So different indeed. Thank you for proving my point:  Obama fires up; Trump riles up.

Obama Inspires, Trump Perspires.

That, too.

443Democrats Debate lineup - Page 18 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup on 8/4/2019, 12:55 am

RealLindaL


othershoe1030 wrote:BTW, Medicare only covers 80% of covered charges. Why is no one point that out? So, anyone opting for a public option may still be in the private insurance market as are those of us who have supplemental policies that cover the other 20% of expenses.[/color]

And another pressing question is, what happens to the all-encompassing Medicare Part C (Medicare Advantage plans) that more and more of us are on and love --private sector products run in accordance with Medicare guidelines?

444Democrats Debate lineup - Page 18 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup on 9/12/2019, 5:53 pm

Telstar

Telstar
Any thoughts about tonight's debate. Only 10 Dems to a voter on this one.

445Democrats Debate lineup - Page 18 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup on 9/13/2019, 2:59 am

RealLindaL


Post-debate thoughts:

I think Castro cooked his own goose, trying to paint Biden as suffering from dementia for supposedly forgetting something he never even said. There were a few other incidences showing a slightly mean, smirking side of Castro, but that was the worst. He should give it up.

Other than that, no huge standouts though I thought Buttigieg was solid, and, although I don't want to see Beto as the candidate, I had to admire his fearless hell yes on assault weapon confiscation. I also got a kick out of Harris' telling Trump to go back to watching Fox News, though she should ditch her penchant for slightly hysterical laughter at times. Not presidential. And NO, that's NOT sexist -- I would say it of ANY candidate of ANY sex.

Sanders and Warren are still too radical to appeal to the mainstream and I greatly fear won't be able to defeat Trump unless they back way off some of their pie in the sky proposals, and also quit telling those of us who are happy with our private insurance plans (INCLUDING millions of seniors on Medicare Advantage) that we'll have to give up our current insurance. This is not to mention the millions of people they'd throw out of work if they decimated the health insurance industry in one fell swoop. Those candidates with more moderate proposals that offer a Medicare-type public OPTION should be far more successful against Trump.

Also, re straight Medicare for All: the huge hole in the claim that any higher taxes on the middle class to pay for it will be more than offset by elimination of such costs as deductibles, copays and premiums, ignores the fact that income taxes will continue to be charged whether or not an individual utilizes medical services in any significant way. That will surely be pointed out as a major disadvantage to younger, healthier voters in any presidential campaign with Sanders or Warren as the Democratic candidate.

446Democrats Debate lineup - Page 18 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup on 9/13/2019, 5:51 am

Telstar

Telstar
I'll take any one of them over toxic orange in our house now.


447Democrats Debate lineup - Page 18 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup on 9/13/2019, 6:28 am

Telstar

Telstar
Love this. Also liked the way she compared Trump to the "small" dude behind the curtain in the Wizard Of Oz. She scares the hell out of the Trump camp.






448Democrats Debate lineup - Page 18 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup on 9/13/2019, 8:46 am

Sal

Sal
Telstar wrote:Love this. Also liked the way she compared Trump to the "small" dude behind the curtain in the Wizard Of Oz. She scares the hell out of the Trump camp.







She's great.

I kinda get the feeling she's auditioning for a VP slot at this point tho.

449Democrats Debate lineup - Page 18 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup on 9/13/2019, 11:42 am

RealLindaL


Telstar wrote:I'll take any one of them over toxic orange in our house now.

TEL!!! THAT GOES WITHOUT SAYING ANY MORE!!!

450Democrats Debate lineup - Page 18 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup on 9/13/2019, 12:19 pm

Telstar

Telstar
RealLindaL wrote:
Telstar wrote:I'll take any one of them over toxic orange in our house now.

TEL!!!  THAT GOES WITHOUT SAYING ANY MORE!!!    




I thought that went without saying in 2016 but I was wrong so I'll keep saying it as often and as loud as I can this time around. Perhaps there is a "small"chance that it will penetrate the thick skulls of the useful idiots that still support the most dangerous cancer in the history of our house. Vote the orange out!

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