How Democrats are losing 2020, already: Trump must not win reelection, but the candidates lining up to beat him are giving a good chance

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

Posts : 4510
Join date : 2010-01-02
Age : 78
Location : Gulfport/New Orleans

First things First. DJT must be a one term president. It is too early for me to get behind one candidate for the Democratic nomination or another. However, I have been thinking about this a lot, as it is my number one priority..beating DJT.

Here is some of an opinion piece by Rick Wilson (Everything Trump Touches Dies) that I think is worth reading:

I’m not here to pick a candidate for the Democrats, but as a political anthropologist of the Trump era, the current class is working the political Maslow hierarchy backward.

On the top, they’re all racing to be the ideologically perfect. “Pick me for your socialist far-left policy dream date!” Even former Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper, who made an actual fortune as a small businessman, wouldn’t label himself a capitalist. What the hell?
Then come concerns over whether the candidate can raise the money. Then comes the idea that maybe they’ll be able to organize a national campaign.

They’ve got it all backward. A candidate needs one attribute to win this thing: the ability to post up to Donald Trump in a year-long slugfest. They need a warrior spirit, a thick skin, a sense of humor, and the rhetorical gift to both scorch and belittle Trump with a smile. They need someone who isn’t bound by politically-correct Marquis of Queensbury rules, but who knows this is a street fight with no holds barred.

Trump won’t play by any rules, ever, and the Democratic nominee better have a taste for blood.
The “Sanders would have won” crowd will have their chance to make their case, but forget it. Sanders is a parasitic worm eating the Democratic Party from the inside out, and Democrats should get it through their heads quickly: nominating a revolutionary Red Diaper socialist for the presidency would result in a 1984-style wipeout. Trump would likely win 45 states.

https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-losing-2020-20190331-qz6zaomkfndxlleg75yhdqyvou-story.html

Telstar

Telstar

Posts : 10887
Join date : 2012-06-14

On the whole I'd rather the Dems trust their future in the hands of AOC or old man Bernie than a long time republican hack like Rick Wilson. Why trust the weasel words of a republican when it was his party that contaminated our great Nation with Trumpcancer in the first place? Let Rick Wilson tell his story walking, just saying. Twisted Evil

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

Posts : 4510
Join date : 2010-01-02
Age : 78
Location : Gulfport/New Orleans

Telstar wrote:On the whole I'd rather the Dems trust their future in the hands of AOC or old man Bernie than a long time republican hack like Rick Wilson. Why trust the weasel words of a republican when it was his party that contaminated our great Nation with Trumpcancer in the first place? Let Rick Wilson tell his story walking, just saying.

I see your point, that Wilson is a Republican, however he is a foe of DJT hating everything he stands for. I think this is more like going to an oncologist if you have some kind of cancer. The oncologist knows cancer, Rick Wilson knows DJT.

I think we need a fighter with a thick skin who's not afraid to call out DJT, speak truthfully without spin, as McCain once did before the handlers got a hold of him. I don't think a straight policy wonk will catch the wave of emotion that I think is going to be necessary to jettison this scoundrel out of DC.

AOC is a jewel. Love her. Her straightforward talk coupled with the fact that she has studied the issues and will not stand for any nonsense. No one calls her out without discovering that she has her facts. That is the perfect combination to face DJT. Call him out, show he is lying, put out the facts and put forth the new plan.

As for Bernie, while I liked him and his talking points about income/wealth inequality and the healthcare system, (and I voted for Hillary) I fear his supporters will not vote for the democratic nominee, in the event he loses. We can't afford any spoilers at this point. Because of this, I hate to encourage them.

gatorfan

gatorfan

Posts : 1919
Join date : 2014-06-11

othershoe1030 wrote:

Telstar wrote:On the whole I'd rather the Dems trust their future in the hands of AOC or old man Bernie than a long time republican hack like Rick Wilson. Why trust the weasel words of a republican when it was his party that contaminated our great Nation with Trumpcancer in the first place? Let Rick Wilson tell his story walking, just saying.

I see your point, that Wilson is a Republican, however he is a foe of DJT hating everything he stands for. I think this is more like going to an oncologist if you have some kind of cancer. The oncologist knows cancer, Rick Wilson knows DJT.

I think we need a fighter with a thick skin who's not afraid to call out DJT, speak truthfully without spin, as McCain once did before the handlers got a hold of him. I don't think a straight policy wonk will catch the wave of emotion that I think is going to be necessary to jettison this scoundrel out of DC.

AOC is a jewel. Love her. Her straightforward talk coupled with the fact that she has studied the issues and will not stand for any nonsense. No one calls her out without discovering that she has her facts. That is the perfect combination to face DJT. Call him out, show he is lying, put out the facts and put forth the new plan.

As for Bernie, while I liked him and his talking points about income/wealth inequality and the healthcare system, (and I voted for Hillary) I fear his supporters will not vote for the democratic nominee, in the event he loses. We can't afford any spoilers at this point. Because of this, I hate to encourage them.

Please tell me you don't honestly believe that light weight ex-bartender knows anything about real world "facts"!!!! She isn't even old enough to run for Pres anyway....

Here is a sample of her "facts" - checked.
https://www.politifact.com/personalities/alexandria-ocasio-cortez/statements/by/

Dems will make the same mistake next election if they continue down the path they are on now. The Trumpet has a thick skin and a forked tongue (most politicians lie but he lies on a Clintonian scale). If the Dems won't take the reasonable high road they will fail gain. Their potential candidate cast of thousands isn't helping either.

Telstar

Telstar

Posts : 10887
Join date : 2012-06-14

othershoe1030 wrote:

Telstar wrote:On the whole I'd rather the Dems trust their future in the hands of AOC or old man Bernie than a long time republican hack like Rick Wilson. Why trust the weasel words of a republican when it was his party that contaminated our great Nation with Trumpcancer in the first place? Let Rick Wilson tell his story walking, just saying.

I see your point, that Wilson is a Republican, however he is a foe of DJT hating everything he stands for. I think this is more like going to an oncologist if you have some kind of cancer. The oncologist knows cancer, Rick Wilson knows DJT.

I think we need a fighter with a thick skin who's not afraid to call out DJT, speak truthfully without spin, as McCain once did before the handlers got a hold of him. I don't think a straight policy wonk will catch the wave of emotion that I think is going to be necessary to jettison this scoundrel out of DC.

AOC is a jewel. Love her. Her straightforward talk coupled with the fact that she has studied the issues and will not stand for any nonsense. No one calls her out without discovering that she has her facts. That is the perfect combination to face DJT. Call him out, show he is lying, put out the facts and put forth the new plan.

As for Bernie, while I liked him and his talking points about income/wealth inequality and the healthcare system, (and I voted for Hillary) I fear his supporters will not vote for the democratic nominee, in the event he loses. We can't afford any spoilers at this point. Because of this, I hate to encourage them.

I won't support Bernie but If he wins the nomination he will get my vote. Not sure what Wilson thinks of AOC. I think I heard that Rick Wilson was going to vote for Scott in the 2018 midterms. With friends like Rick Wilson, the Dems don't need Trump.

zsomething

zsomething

Posts : 2492
Join date : 2017-04-21

I think our whole field is pretty good, other than Bernie. Bernie's a dead-set lock on losing if we're stupid enough to nominate that one-note piece of shit. He's the left's version of Trump -- a thin-skinned irritable Russia-enamored old dotard with messy hair who won't show his taxes, is pushed into positions he's completely unsuited for by a fantatical personality-cult following, repeats the same shit over and over while making the same hand gestures over and over, and has a bunch of ideas he likes to talk about but has no realistic plans to implement. "We'll get it because a million people will march and demand it" is nothing but the old-hippie version of "Mexico will pay for it." It's not even smoke and mirrors, it's just hogwash and horseshit. I hate the sonofabitch almost as much as I do Trump. I'll vote for anybody over Trump, so if it comes to that I'll vote for Bernie... but I'd rather we just run a turnip against Trump than him, 'cuz I think he'd make a better president. Can you imagine Bernie facing off against Putin? Sheeeeee-yit. I'm hoping he'll drop out early. I'm willing to let him have a health scare to cause it, too, if that's what it takes. Honestly, we need him out of the race by some means nobody can blame anyone else for, because his cult is so Scientology-sold on the crotchety old bastard that they'll try to shred any candidate-who-isn't-Bernie. They want him, or failure, so they can claim "we would've won if we'd just nominated our idiot meh-meh-meh."

And, I'm sorry, I know the people who like his brand of "socialism" really like it, but your fanbase isn't enough to get ya into office, and socialists remain the least electable form of candidate. https://news.gallup.com/poll/183713/socialist-presidential-candidates-least-appealing.aspx Even atheists fare better. And I'd love it if we could elect an atheist, 'cuz I am one, but I know what country I'm living in... I want a candidate who can win, not just one who I'd personally like.

All the talk about AOC is silliness. I see people wishing she could run for president. That's just goofy and makes me wonder if people have any sense. Can we see if she's even a good representative first, before we promote her to the most important position in the world, just 'cuz she's good at Twitter or whatever? There are things I like about her, and things I don't, but talking about her as president material when she's barely even been in Congress but a few months is nobody-should-take-you-serious material.

The rest of our bench all have various strengths and liabilities, but I think all of 'em would have a chance at beating Trump, especially if the economy trails off like it looks like it's going to. That's really his only strength... and it's funny, because it's something he inherited from Obama and has honestly done nothing with except slow down its trends!

It's still early yet, but a few Democrats are already starting to shine a bit more than I expected they would. I kinda thought Elizabeth Warren was going to be sunk by that dumb "I'm a Native American" goof-up of hers, but so far it doesn't seem to be doing as much damage as I'd thought, and she's definitely got appeal to policy-wonks. She wants a lot of the same stuff Bernie does... but she has actual detailed plans on how those things might be done! Which don't involve "millions of young people marching to demand it" or "gathering our thoughts and chanting 'til we levitate the Pentagon" (okay, that second one's not an actual Bernie-plan, but it might as well be). Kamala Harris would carve Trump up in a debate... I've seen that woman grill people, and she's terrifying. Amy Klobachar is also mighty impressive. So far Beto hasn't caught fire quite as much as I hoped he would -- mainly because Bernie's cult is slamming him because he's-not-Bernie. They do that with everybody.

Know who's surprised me most, though? Pete Buttigeig (boot-edge-edge). I had dismissed him early because, eh, seems like a nice guy, but his name-recognition is underwater (you can't even pronounce it) and he's, what, a mayor... and of South Bend, you say? There seemed nowhere to go from that. And yet, every time this guy gets on TV and speaks, his numbers shoot way up. I've seen Republicans even liking the guy. He's a veteran, he's crazy-freakin' smart (speaks 8 languages), seems a bit of a policy wonk, has concrete answers. He's also gay, but I don't think that'll turn off many people who'd consider voting for a non-Republican in the first place. Face it, Democrats aren't going to win over the hardline evangelicals no matter what they do -- the evangelicals and brainwashed and gone. So, if Mayor Pete keeps overcoming the name-recognition issue, he just might become a real force to reckon with. I'm keeping my eye on that and seeing how it goes.

But, yeah, we've got a bench full of potential, and it's early in the game yet. I know Trump has his fanatical Nazi cult, but that's about all he's got left. And the more dictatorial he goes, the more people he's going to scare off of him. I never put any level of stupidity out of reach of the average American idiot -- they gave Dubya a second term, after all -- but even Dubya wasn't as despicable as Trump.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

Posts : 4510
Join date : 2010-01-02
Age : 78
Location : Gulfport/New Orleans

gatorfan wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:

Telstar wrote:On the whole I'd rather the Dems trust their future in the hands of AOC or old man Bernie than a long time republican hack like Rick Wilson. Why trust the weasel words of a republican when it was his party that contaminated our great Nation with Trumpcancer in the first place? Let Rick Wilson tell his story walking, just saying.

I see your point, that Wilson is a Republican, however he is a foe of DJT hating everything he stands for. I think this is more like going to an oncologist if you have some kind of cancer. The oncologist knows cancer, Rick Wilson knows DJT.

I think we need a fighter with a thick skin who's not afraid to call out DJT, speak truthfully without spin, as McCain once did before the handlers got a hold of him. I don't think a straight policy wonk will catch the wave of emotion that I think is going to be necessary to jettison this scoundrel out of DC.

AOC is a jewel. Love her. Her straightforward talk coupled with the fact that she has studied the issues and will not stand for any nonsense. No one calls her out without discovering that she has her facts. That is the perfect combination to face DJT. Call him out, show he is lying, put out the facts and put forth the new plan.

As for Bernie, while I liked him and his talking points about income/wealth inequality and the healthcare system, (and I voted for Hillary) I fear his supporters will not vote for the democratic nominee, in the event he loses. We can't afford any spoilers at this point. Because of this, I hate to encourage them.

Please tell me you don't honestly believe that light weight ex-bartender knows anything about real world "facts"!!!! She isn't even old enough to run for Pres anyway....

Here is a sample of her "facts" - checked.
https://www.politifact.com/personalities/alexandria-ocasio-cortez/statements/by/

Dems will make the same mistake next election if they continue down the path they are on now. The Trumpet has a thick skin and a forked tongue (most politicians lie but he lies on a Clintonian scale). If the Dems won't take the reasonable high road they will fail gain. Their potential candidate cast of thousands isn't helping either.

It is evident, from the Politifact findings, that AOC needs to clean up her act when it comes to being more precise with what she says. Let me say, I like her a lot, her style and in-your-face unapologetic approach to many issues. I think her heart is in the right place and as she gets more experience and mellows just a bit, I think she will be a force to be reckoned with. Also, it is quite obvious that she is not old enough to run for president, didn't mean to give the impression that I was backing her for the nomination; I just like her style.

In order to beat DJT in 2020, I think Dems have to have a well rounded candidate. It needs to be someone who has enough emotional appeal to create enough enthusiasm to get people to the polls. They can't be a total policy wonk with no emotional shirt tails. It's got to be the complete package.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

Posts : 4510
Join date : 2010-01-02
Age : 78
Location : Gulfport/New Orleans

Telstar wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:

Telstar wrote:On the whole I'd rather the Dems trust their future in the hands of AOC or old man Bernie than a long time republican hack like Rick Wilson. Why trust the weasel words of a republican when it was his party that contaminated our great Nation with Trumpcancer in the first place? Let Rick Wilson tell his story walking, just saying.

I see your point, that Wilson is a Republican, however he is a foe of DJT hating everything he stands for. I think this is more like going to an oncologist if you have some kind of cancer. The oncologist knows cancer, Rick Wilson knows DJT.

I think we need a fighter with a thick skin who's not afraid to call out DJT, speak truthfully without spin, as McCain once did before the handlers got a hold of him. I don't think a straight policy wonk will catch the wave of emotion that I think is going to be necessary to jettison this scoundrel out of DC.

AOC is a jewel. Love her. Her straightforward talk coupled with the fact that she has studied the issues and will not stand for any nonsense. No one calls her out without discovering that she has her facts. That is the perfect combination to face DJT. Call him out, show he is lying, put out the facts and put forth the new plan.

As for Bernie, while I liked him and his talking points about income/wealth inequality and the healthcare system, (and I voted for Hillary) I fear his supporters will not vote for the democratic nominee, in the event he loses. We can't afford any spoilers at this point. Because of this, I hate to encourage them.

I won't support Bernie but If he wins the nomination he will get my vote. Not sure what Wilson thinks of AOC. I think I heard that Rick Wilson was going to vote for Scott in the 2018 midterms. With friends like Rick Wilson, the Dems don't need Trump.

There's a good chance, that the "Rick Wilson" who was going to vote for Scott is not the same Rick Wilson who wrote the book "Everything Trump Touches Dies" (let's hope!)

I totally agree with your thoughts about Bernie. I want him to drop out early so he nutty followers have more of a chance to adjust their thinking and get behind whoever get the nomination.

https://www.theledger.com/news/20181002/scott-appointee-rick-wilson-sworn-in-melony-bell-praised-by-polk-commissioners

Telstar

Telstar

Posts : 10887
Join date : 2012-06-14

othershoe1030 wrote:

Telstar wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:

Telstar wrote:On the whole I'd rather the Dems trust their future in the hands of AOC or old man Bernie than a long time republican hack like Rick Wilson. Why trust the weasel words of a republican when it was his party that contaminated our great Nation with Trumpcancer in the first place? Let Rick Wilson tell his story walking, just saying.

I see your point, that Wilson is a Republican, however he is a foe of DJT hating everything he stands for. I think this is more like going to an oncologist if you have some kind of cancer. The oncologist knows cancer, Rick Wilson knows DJT.

I think we need a fighter with a thick skin who's not afraid to call out DJT, speak truthfully without spin, as McCain once did before the handlers got a hold of him. I don't think a straight policy wonk will catch the wave of emotion that I think is going to be necessary to jettison this scoundrel out of DC.

AOC is a jewel. Love her. Her straightforward talk coupled with the fact that she has studied the issues and will not stand for any nonsense. No one calls her out without discovering that she has her facts. That is the perfect combination to face DJT. Call him out, show he is lying, put out the facts and put forth the new plan.

As for Bernie, while I liked him and his talking points about income/wealth inequality and the healthcare system, (and I voted for Hillary) I fear his supporters will not vote for the democratic nominee, in the event he loses. We can't afford any spoilers at this point. Because of this, I hate to encourage them.

I won't support Bernie but If he wins the nomination he will get my vote. Not sure what Wilson thinks of AOC. I think I heard that Rick Wilson was going to vote for Scott in the 2018 midterms. With friends like Rick Wilson, the Dems don't need Trump.

There's a good chance, that the "Rick Wilson" who was going to vote for Scott is not the same Rick Wilson who wrote the book "Everything Trump Touches Dies" (let's hope!)

I totally agree with your thoughts about Bernie. I want him to drop out early so he nutty followers have more of a chance to adjust their thinking and get behind whoever get the nomination.

https://www.theledger.com/news/20181002/scott-appointee-rick-wilson-sworn-in-melony-bell-praised-by-polk-commissioners

Same Rick Wilson. Wilson may hate Trump but that doesn't mean he and all republicans are any less dangerous to Real Americans than Trump himself is. Trump is a cancer but it was the republicans who infected America with that cancer. What Wilson needs to do is find an AOC in his own party who will stand up to Traitor Trump and take him down for being the tool of our foreign enemies in Russia and support that AOC. If the republican party is afraid or unwilling to stand up to the monster they created, then they need to be replaced by a new party. A real party that isn't afraid of Terrorist Trump. Thanks Rick Wilson, now tell it to your own party the way you tell it to US. Twisted Evil

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

Posts : 4510
Join date : 2010-01-02
Age : 78
Location : Gulfport/New Orleans

Telstar wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:

Telstar wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:

Telstar wrote:On the whole I'd rather the Dems trust their future in the hands of AOC or old man Bernie than a long time republican hack like Rick Wilson. Why trust the weasel words of a republican when it was his party that contaminated our great Nation with Trumpcancer in the first place? Let Rick Wilson tell his story walking, just saying.

I see your point, that Wilson is a Republican, however he is a foe of DJT hating everything he stands for. I think this is more like going to an oncologist if you have some kind of cancer. The oncologist knows cancer, Rick Wilson knows DJT.

I think we need a fighter with a thick skin who's not afraid to call out DJT, speak truthfully without spin, as McCain once did before the handlers got a hold of him. I don't think a straight policy wonk will catch the wave of emotion that I think is going to be necessary to jettison this scoundrel out of DC.

AOC is a jewel. Love her. Her straightforward talk coupled with the fact that she has studied the issues and will not stand for any nonsense. No one calls her out without discovering that she has her facts. That is the perfect combination to face DJT. Call him out, show he is lying, put out the facts and put forth the new plan.

As for Bernie, while I liked him and his talking points about income/wealth inequality and the healthcare system, (and I voted for Hillary) I fear his supporters will not vote for the democratic nominee, in the event he loses. We can't afford any spoilers at this point. Because of this, I hate to encourage them.

I won't support Bernie but If he wins the nomination he will get my vote. Not sure what Wilson thinks of AOC. I think I heard that Rick Wilson was going to vote for Scott in the 2018 midterms. With friends like Rick Wilson, the Dems don't need Trump.

There's a good chance, that the "Rick Wilson" who was going to vote for Scott is not the same Rick Wilson who wrote the book "Everything Trump Touches Dies" (let's hope!)

I totally agree with your thoughts about Bernie. I want him to drop out early so he nutty followers have more of a chance to adjust their thinking and get behind whoever get the nomination.

https://www.theledger.com/news/20181002/scott-appointee-rick-wilson-sworn-in-melony-bell-praised-by-polk-commissioners

Same Rick Wilson. Wilson may hate Trump but that doesn't mean he and all republicans are any less dangerous to Real Americans than Trump himself is. Trump is a cancer but it was the republicans who infected America with that cancer. What Wilson needs to do is find an AOC in his own party who will stand up to Traitor Trump and take him down for being the tool of our foreign enemies in Russia and support that AOC. If the republican party is afraid or unwilling to stand up to the monster they created, then they need to be replaced by a new party. A real party that isn't afraid of Terrorist Trump. Thanks Rick Wilson, now tell it to your own party the way you tell it to US.

Sounds like a good idea.

Telstar

Telstar

Posts : 10887
Join date : 2012-06-14

othershoe1030 wrote:

Telstar wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:

Telstar wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:

Telstar wrote:On the whole I'd rather the Dems trust their future in the hands of AOC or old man Bernie than a long time republican hack like Rick Wilson. Why trust the weasel words of a republican when it was his party that contaminated our great Nation with Trumpcancer in the first place? Let Rick Wilson tell his story walking, just saying.

I see your point, that Wilson is a Republican, however he is a foe of DJT hating everything he stands for. I think this is more like going to an oncologist if you have some kind of cancer. The oncologist knows cancer, Rick Wilson knows DJT.

I think we need a fighter with a thick skin who's not afraid to call out DJT, speak truthfully without spin, as McCain once did before the handlers got a hold of him. I don't think a straight policy wonk will catch the wave of emotion that I think is going to be necessary to jettison this scoundrel out of DC.

AOC is a jewel. Love her. Her straightforward talk coupled with the fact that she has studied the issues and will not stand for any nonsense. No one calls her out without discovering that she has her facts. That is the perfect combination to face DJT. Call him out, show he is lying, put out the facts and put forth the new plan.

As for Bernie, while I liked him and his talking points about income/wealth inequality and the healthcare system, (and I voted for Hillary) I fear his supporters will not vote for the democratic nominee, in the event he loses. We can't afford any spoilers at this point. Because of this, I hate to encourage them.

I won't support Bernie but If he wins the nomination he will get my vote. Not sure what Wilson thinks of AOC. I think I heard that Rick Wilson was going to vote for Scott in the 2018 midterms. With friends like Rick Wilson, the Dems don't need Trump.

There's a good chance, that the "Rick Wilson" who was going to vote for Scott is not the same Rick Wilson who wrote the book "Everything Trump Touches Dies" (let's hope!)

I totally agree with your thoughts about Bernie. I want him to drop out early so he nutty followers have more of a chance to adjust their thinking and get behind whoever get the nomination.

https://www.theledger.com/news/20181002/scott-appointee-rick-wilson-sworn-in-melony-bell-praised-by-polk-commissioners

Same Rick Wilson. Wilson may hate Trump but that doesn't mean he and all republicans are any less dangerous to Real Americans than Trump himself is. Trump is a cancer but it was the republicans who infected America with that cancer. What Wilson needs to do is find an AOC in his own party who will stand up to Traitor Trump and take him down for being the tool of our foreign enemies in Russia and support that AOC. If the republican party is afraid or unwilling to stand up to the monster they created, then they need to be replaced by a new party. A real party that isn't afraid of Terrorist Trump. Thanks Rick Wilson, now tell it to your own party the way you tell it to US.

Sounds like a good idea.

How Democrats are losing 2020, already: Trump must not win reelection, but the candidates lining up to beat him are giving a good chance Thumbs10

bigdog

bigdog

Posts : 1057
Join date : 2017-08-20

I've seen Mayor Pete as well, and I think he might make an excellent POTUS. You have far more faith in Americans voting for a man with a husband than I do , though. I would definitely vote for him, but I think he would inspire every Trump voter who might be questioning whether they should vote to leap out of their arm chairs and rush out to the polls. There are a lot of dems who won't admit their homophobia as well. I just doubt he could make it, and somebody who can make it is what we have to have.
I'm still favoring Joe Biden. I fully expected the women to pop up from all over America claiming he's disrespected them somehow just as soon as he announced his presidency. They couldn't wait, I guess. I'm glad they're getting it all out there now so it will be old news by the time the primaries roll around, assuming it doesn't keep Biden from running at all. I honestly believe either Biden or Corey Booker are the only two candidates out there who can beat Trump. Bernie Sanders is just a pain in the butt for the Democratic party. IMO, he's an independent and should not be allowed to even run in the Democratic primaries unless he can commit to the party. He'd be a disaster against Trump. He scares moderates to death, and whether anyone admits it or not, most Americans are moderates.

RealLindaL

RealLindaL

Posts : 6465
Join date : 2012-06-14
Location : Pensacola Beach, FL

bigdog wrote:I've seen Mayor Pete as well, and I think he might make an excellent POTUS. You have far more faith in Americans voting for a man with a husband than I do , though. I would definitely vote for him, but I think he would inspire every Trump voter who might be questioning whether they should vote to leap out of their arm chairs and rush out to the polls. There are a lot of dems who won't admit their homophobia as well. I just doubt he could make it, and somebody who can make it is what we have to have.
I'm still favoring Joe Biden. I fully expected the women to pop up from all over America claiming he's disrespected them somehow just as soon as he announced his presidency. They couldn't wait, I guess. I'm glad they're getting it all out there now so it will be old news by the time the primaries roll around, assuming it doesn't keep Biden from running at all. I honestly believe either Biden or Corey Booker are the only two candidates out there who can beat Trump. Bernie Sanders is just a pain in the butt for the Democratic party. IMO, he's an independent and should not be allowed to even run in the Democratic primaries unless he can commit to the party. He'd be a disaster against Trump. He scares moderates to death, and whether anyone admits it or not, most Americans are moderates.

Agree with absolutely everything you say here, other than not being quite so sure about Corey Booker's chances, and worrying a little about Biden's tendency toward gaffes. I also haven't entirely given up on Amy Klobuchar, though she may be better as a running mate.

Sanders definitely needs to go but he'll have to be forced out later rather than sooner, unfortunately. He's got delusions of grandeur.

Sal

Sal

Posts : 16310
Join date : 2012-06-13

bigdog wrote:I've seen Mayor Pete as well, and I think he might make an excellent POTUS.

Before I dive into Shortest Way Home’s account of the life and career of Peter Buttigieg, let me be up front about my bias. I don’t trust former McKinsey consultants. I don’t trust military intelligence officers. And I don’t trust the type of people likely to appear on “40 under 40” lists, the valedictorian-to-Harvard-to-Rhodes-Scholarship types who populate the American elite. I don’t trust people who get flattering reams of newspaper profiles and are pitched as the Next Big Thing That You Must Pay Attention To, and I don’t trust wunderkinds who become successful too early. Why? Because I am somewhat cynical about the United States meritocracy. Few people amass these kind of résumés if they are the type to openly challenge authority. Noam Chomsky says that the factors predicting success in our “meritocracy” are a “combination of greed, cynicism, obsequiousness and subordination, lack of curiosity and independence of mind, [and] self-serving disregard for others.” So when journalists see “Harvard” and think “impressive,” I see it and think “uh-oh.”

I try my best to be fair, though. I thought former Michigan gubernatorial candidate Abdul El-Sayed was suspect because of his shiny résumé. But after examining his proposals and listening to his speeches, I realized he was the real deal. He had done well in school, but he was genuinely outraged by preventable human misery, talked openly about taking on corporate oligarchy, and had bold plans for revolutionizing health care, environmental policy, and just about everything else. I have lots of friends who are the products of elite institutions, but became critical of those institutions after being exposed to their inner workings. If Pete Buttigieg is one of those, great!

Pete Buttigieg is not one of those.

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2019/03/all-about-pete

The whole thing is worth the read.

Telstar

Telstar

Posts : 10887
Join date : 2012-06-14

Sal wrote:

bigdog wrote:I've seen Mayor Pete as well, and I think he might make an excellent POTUS.

Before I dive into Shortest Way Home’s account of the life and career of Peter Buttigieg, let me be up front about my bias. I don’t trust former McKinsey consultants. I don’t trust military intelligence officers. And I don’t trust the type of people likely to appear on “40 under 40” lists, the valedictorian-to-Harvard-to-Rhodes-Scholarship types who populate the American elite. I don’t trust people who get flattering reams of newspaper profiles and are pitched as the Next Big Thing That You Must Pay Attention To, and I don’t trust wunderkinds who become successful too early. Why? Because I am somewhat cynical about the United States meritocracy. Few people amass these kind of résumés if they are the type to openly challenge authority. Noam Chomsky says that the factors predicting success in our “meritocracy” are a “combination of greed, cynicism, obsequiousness and subordination, lack of curiosity and independence of mind, [and] self-serving disregard for others.” So when journalists see “Harvard” and think “impressive,” I see it and think “uh-oh.”

I try my best to be fair, though. I thought former Michigan gubernatorial candidate Abdul El-Sayed was suspect because of his shiny résumé. But after examining his proposals and listening to his speeches, I realized he was the real deal. He had done well in school, but he was genuinely outraged by preventable human misery, talked openly about taking on corporate oligarchy, and had bold plans for revolutionizing health care, environmental policy, and just about everything else. I have lots of friends who are the products of elite institutions, but became critical of those institutions after being exposed to their inner workings. If Pete Buttigieg is one of those, great!

Pete Buttigieg is not one of those.

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2019/03/all-about-pete

The whole thing is worth the read.

Doesn't look like Petey is a "man of the people", does it? Still it's early in the race and we will see how he holds up as the race rolls on. Thanks for posting this Sol.

zsomething

zsomething

Posts : 2492
Join date : 2017-04-21

Sal wrote:

The whole thing is worth the read.

The hell you say. Very Happy

Sorry, but I dive a little deeper on these things, do a little backtracking, see what else the guy's written. The author, Nathan J. Robinson, is another fucking Bernie cultist who's out to do hit-jobs on everybody-who's-not-Bernie. He's also got pieces slamming Biden, Beto, everybody associated with Obama, and even the Southern Poverty Law Center. Plus he's got up shit about pacifism, etc.

And look at the article itself. His terror of anyone taking the "crown" away from Bernie runs through this thing like a carotid. I mean, just look at this shit: this is a zealot's FEAR:

You will be sold Buttigieg’s small-town milliennial neoliberalism the way they’re trying to sell you Beto O’Rourke’s skateboard neoliberalism. Hey kids, you like Medicare For All? So does this guy! But he’s young and from the Midwest and likes Hamilton! Bernie is old. You don’t need an old man. You need young hip progressivism.

Do not be deceived by this. Look into the actual records of these candidates. Get their shitty books and scrutinize them closely. A lot of money is going to be flowing toward tricks like this, as frantic Democratic elites try to push someone like Buttigieg in order to prevent a Sanders nomination.

("shitty books" -- that's cute objective journalism, ain't it? Smile

)

Pete Buttigieg will be in the debates, and he will be good. There will probably be all kinds of profiles about the “breakout star” of the first debate. “Is Sanders finished?” Slate will ask. “Pete Buttigieg Out-Sandersed Sanders,” the Atlantic will insist

He's so panicked that he can't help showing his cards. What he really hates about Pete Buttigeig, behind all the ravings about how Harvard is bad and being in the military is evil and even reading James Joyce is somehow "corporate" is just a plain flat-out pants-wetting terror that somebody's going to be better than our dear precious Berrrrrnnnieee.

And he's desperate to try to make us agree with him on that.

If we are lucky, Buttigieg Fever will dissipate quickly when people realize this guy is the same rancid wine in a new wifi-enabled bottle. “Hah, remember when Pete Buttigieg became a thing for a hot second?” It will be remembered as neoliberalism’s last gasp, a pitiful attempt at co-optation that was met with a unanimous reply of “Nice try.” Let’s hope to God that’s how this goes.

What's this "let's" shit there, buttercup? Ain't no "let's." "Let's" implies you and me, and I'm definitely on Team Fuck-You-Nathan.

These things should make you fucking angry. You should not be able to stop thinking about them. Your hate should be pure and should burn white hot.

Now he's telling us how to feel. How 'bout I feel that way about Bernie, instead? Because, honestly, Bernie is why we have Trump now. Yeah, Hillary wasn't an ideal candidate, but without Bernie Sanders sowing his bitterness -- like he clearly is again -- that 80,000-total between the three swing states likely wouldn't have gone Jill Stein... and more disgruntled Bernie fans would have shown up to vote if they hadn't feel like their old crusty-cracked hippie hadn't been "cheated" by getting fewer votes.

In any case, if we need any more proof of what I'm saying, Nathan's Bernie-tanked so hard he even penned this looneytoon piece of ridiculous wombat-shit: https://www.currentaffairs.org/2019/02/there-is-still-only-one-clear-way-to-get-rid-of-trump Anybody who actually believes Bernie Sanders would beat Trump probably charts somewhere around "cabbage" when they take intelligence tests.

You keep an eye on Nate, there, because I can pretty much guarantee you this: this drip will write articles slamming every Democratic candidate as soon as they pose a threat to his precious Bernie. He's bought-and-sold on Bernie like he's the second-coming of L. Ron Hubbard. If Kamala Harris goes up in the polls next week, we'll get a sniper article about how she likes Fig Newtons and Ronald Reagan also ate those and so boogaboogabooga she's just terrrrrrrible and we should only vote for people who snack on raw beets, like, oh, I dunno, Berrrrrrnieeeeee.

All of this might be funny, except for one nasty lil' fact: Bernie is not a viable candidate. Out of all our field, Bernie is the only one who has zero chance.

It's just like last time: Bernie's wasting everyone's time and his cult is trying to hamstring every other candidate on the way. He's a plague on the Democratic party. If we end up with a second round of Trump it'll likely be due to The Curse of Bernie Sanders... again.

Telstar

Telstar

Posts : 10887
Join date : 2012-06-14

zsomething wrote:

Sal wrote:

The whole thing is worth the read.

The hell you say.

Sorry, but I dive a little deeper on these things, do a little backtracking, see what else the guy's written. The author, Nathan J. Robinson, is another fucking Bernie cultist who's out to do hit-jobs on everybody-who's-not-Bernie. He's also got pieces slamming Biden, Beto, everybody associated with Obama, and even the Southern Poverty Law Center. Plus he's got up shit about pacifism, etc.

And look at the article itself. His terror of anyone taking the "crown" away from Bernie runs through this thing like a carotid. I mean, just look at this shit: this is a zealot's FEAR:

You will be sold Buttigieg’s small-town milliennial neoliberalism the way they’re trying to sell you Beto O’Rourke’s skateboard neoliberalism. Hey kids, you like Medicare For All? So does this guy! But he’s young and from the Midwest and likes Hamilton! Bernie is old. You don’t need an old man. You need young hip progressivism.

Do not be deceived by this. Look into the actual records of these candidates. Get their shitty books and scrutinize them closely. A lot of money is going to be flowing toward tricks like this, as frantic Democratic elites try to push someone like Buttigieg in order to prevent a Sanders nomination.

("shitty books" -- that's cute objective journalism, ain't it? )

Pete Buttigieg will be in the debates, and he will be good. There will probably be all kinds of profiles about the “breakout star” of the first debate. “Is Sanders finished?” Slate will ask. “Pete Buttigieg Out-Sandersed Sanders,” the Atlantic will insist

He's so panicked that he can't help showing his cards. What he really hates about Pete Buttigeig, behind all the ravings about how Harvard is bad and being in the military is evil and even reading James Joyce is somehow "corporate" is just a plain flat-out pants-wetting terror that somebody's going to be better than our dear precious Berrrrrnnnieee.

And he's desperate to try to make us agree with him on that.

If we are lucky, Buttigieg Fever will dissipate quickly when people realize this guy is the same rancid wine in a new wifi-enabled bottle. “Hah, remember when Pete Buttigieg became a thing for a hot second?” It will be remembered as neoliberalism’s last gasp, a pitiful attempt at co-optation that was met with a unanimous reply of “Nice try.” Let’s hope to God that’s how this goes.

What's this "let's" shit there, buttercup? Ain't no "let's." "Let's" implies you and me, and I'm definitely on Team Fuck-You-Nathan.

These things should make you fucking angry. You should not be able to stop thinking about them. Your hate should be pure and should burn white hot.

Now he's telling us how to feel. How 'bout I feel that way about Bernie, instead? Because, honestly, Bernie is why we have Trump now. Yeah, Hillary wasn't an ideal candidate, but without Bernie Sanders sowing his bitterness -- like he clearly is again -- that 80,000-total between the three swing states likely wouldn't have gone Jill Stein... and more disgruntled Bernie fans would have shown up to vote if they hadn't feel like their old crusty-cracked hippie hadn't been "cheated" by getting fewer votes.

In any case, if we need any more proof of what I'm saying, Nathan's Bernie-tanked so hard he even penned this looneytoon piece of ridiculous wombat-shit: https://www.currentaffairs.org/2019/02/there-is-still-only-one-clear-way-to-get-rid-of-trump Anybody who actually believes Bernie Sanders would beat Trump probably charts somewhere around "cabbage" when they take intelligence tests.

You keep an eye on Nate, there, because I can pretty much guarantee you this: this drip will write articles slamming every Democratic candidate as soon as they pose a threat to his precious Bernie. He's bought-and-sold on Bernie like he's the second-coming of L. Ron Hubbard. If Kamala Harris goes up in the polls next week, we'll get a sniper article about how she likes Fig Newtons and Ronald Reagan also ate those and so boogaboogabooga she's just terrrrrrrible and we should only vote for people who snack on raw beets, like, oh, I dunno, Berrrrrrnieeeeee.

All of this might be funny, except for one nasty lil' fact: Bernie is not a viable candidate. Out of all our field, Bernie is the only one who has zero chance.

It's just like last time: Bernie's wasting everyone's time and his cult is trying to hamstring every other candidate on the way. He's a plague on the Democratic party. If we end up with a second round of Trump it'll likely be due to The Curse of Bernie Sanders... again.

And thank YOU for posting THIS, Z.

Deus X

Deus X

Posts : 1917
Join date : 2017-08-11
Location : Purgatory, FL

WOW! What a great thread!

RealLindaL

RealLindaL

Posts : 6465
Join date : 2012-06-14
Location : Pensacola Beach, FL

Deus X wrote:WOW! What a great thread!

Isn't it, though? Serious food for thought -- not that I needed any convincing that a Bernie nomination will spell instant death for the Democrats in 2020.

Deus X

Deus X

Posts : 1917
Join date : 2017-08-11
Location : Purgatory, FL

gatorfan wrote:...that light weight ex-bartender knows anything...

She graduated Cum Laude from Boston University with a degree in International Relations and Economics.

Where'd you get YOUR degree, Hillbilly Boy?

Telstar

Telstar

Posts : 10887
Join date : 2012-06-14

Deus X wrote:

gatorfan wrote:...that light weight ex-bartender knows anything...

She graduated Cum Laude from Boston University with a degree in International Relations and Economics.

Where'd you get YOUR degree, Hillbilly Boy?

She knows enough to ignore the silly advice from Paul (tit on a bull) Ryan.

https://www.alternet.org/2019/04/paul-ryan-gets-mercilessly-mocked-for-saying-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-didnt-listen-to-his-career-advice/

zsomething

zsomething

Posts : 2492
Join date : 2017-04-21

The insidiousness of the Bernie-cultists sniping at all our other candidates irks me (you may have noticed Wink

). This Nathan Robinson guy is just one example out of many, but he's handy, so I decided to poke around some more. Aaaaand, I'm finding more problems with him. I've seen several people claim he's actually on Bernie's payroll while posing as a "journalist." I can't verify that for certain in Robinson's case because all I can find is hearsay, but Bernie did do that trick with David Sirota, who was writing speeches for Bernie while also writing hit-pieces on other candidates, not disclosing that he was working for Bernie.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/03/19/bernie-sanders-hires-reporter-david-sirota-who-has-bashed-candidates/3216513002/

(See, it's things like this that irk me when people think Bernie's squeaky clean and honorable. He ain't. That's fine -- he's a politician, but I just hate the pose of supposed-righteousness).

So, I don't know if Nathan's also getting paid by the Bernie campaign, or if he's just volunteering... but his "journalism" is bullshit. And we're going to be seeing a lot of these guys 'n' gals, so... get used to poking a bit deeper into their background, see what they're really up to. And keep in mind that so far the Russia hijinks have been to push Bernie, because they know he divides and weakens the Democrats because his cult is so devoted and fanatical. They're like Bernie's kamikazes, swarm-bombing anything that threatens Bernie's getting the nomination.

This thread on Twitter -- https://twitter.com/CaraOriel/status/1113534271434706945 -- was pretty interesting, both about Nathan's "integrity" and some Russia problems Bernie has (which are pretty big. The GOP's sitting on a big file of 'em, hoping we'll be foolish enough to make the damn fool our nominee -- I've seen bits of what's likely in there, like the video of Bernie praising Castro ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp2sCcOO9J0 ), etc.). I'll cut and paste it in because you never know how tweets are gonna access.

Thread: A Letter To The Sanders Campaign. Dear Nicholas,

Thank you for your reply. I’d like to be more specific because my concerns, I do believe, are those of most democrats and independents trying to evaluate the large and relatively 1/x
1:10 PM - 3 Apr 2019

impressive field of democratic candidates. We need a president that is a patriot of unquestionable integrity that will restore our standing with NATO allies and make decisions to uphold the world order for which our ancestors fought and died. 2/x

By way of background, my father and my aunt were classmates of Bernie at James Madison High School in Brooklyn. Their childhood stories read much like Bernie’s. I was a Bernie supporter in 2016 but voted for Hillary in the general election. 3/x

With that as background, I hope you will take to heart the serious concerns that need to be addressed and in the very near future. The Democratic Party can and will forgive mistakes. We are a forgiving bunch. But arrogance and anger when questioned is off-putting 4/x

and something Bernie needs to work on. 6/x

Specifically, in addition to his taxes, which truly don’t require so many weeks to release, my concerns revolve around (1) his truly inexplicable voting record on imposing sanctions on Russia 7/x

post 2016 election interference and coordination with the Trump campaign (Iran wasn’t a satisfying explanation, and if that was truly the basis for his shocking vote, I expected him to lead the charge to reintroduce sanctions once Trump exited the Iran nuclear deal). 8/x

Additionally, his absence at the senate vote to oppose overturning sanctions on Oleg Deripaska troubled me greatly. All this, with the backdrop of a campaign advisor in Tad Devine that worked on behalf of an illegitimate Russian-installed leader alongside Paul Manafort 9/x

was troubling. His decision to retain him again for the 2020 campaign (notwithstanding the subsequent termination of the engagement) was upsetting to me. I’m glad that Devine cooperated with the Mueller probe but gosh, any entanglement with Russia is extremely concerning.10/x

Russia plays the long game and if they ensnared Bernie in a way that is compromising his decision making, he wouldn’t be the first person to be a target. He needs to just come out and explain what they have on him. 11/x

Perhaps it’s less sinister than some are imagining. Regardless we need a candidate with absolutely zero ability to be manipulated. The electorate is smart and rightly paranoid — Trump is clearly at the mercy not only of Russia but other nations as well. 12/x

If the electorate has doubt regarding Bernie’s patriotism, it is completely disqualifying. 13/x

My second issue: I feel that Bernie’s pledge to run a positive campaign was insincere. In particular, (1) the very next day Nina Turner attacked Julian Castro’s HUD record on Twitter. 14/x

Moreover, the policies she attributed to Julian were initiated by his predecessor under Bush. She isn’t stupid — as I am sure she knows, Julian worked to reverse most discriminatory policies. If she didn’t, Wikipedia lays it out in no uncertain terms. 15/x

She never retracted her statements, she never apologized. She is an attack dog. Bernie’s policy of surrounding himself with people that smear and worse never retract cannot stand. She must go. 17/x

(2) David Sirota — I will keep this brief. It was shockingly unethical that he decried independence as a journalist in the weeks leading up to him joining the campaign. He’s been hired and fired dating back to Bernie’s mayoral tenure on Burlington. He is toxic. He must go. 18/x

(3) Nathan J. Robinson / http://Currentaffairs.org — the writings of Robinson are so patently partisan. His characterizations of Beto O’Rourke and Pete Buttigieg are loaded with intentional and pernicious errors. 19/x

I’ll just throw one out there — Buttigieg NEVER threw any person out of a home in South Bend Indiana. I have fact checked this with numerous residents in the LaSalle area. Not one. To imagine that Robinson isn’t in some fashion working with Bernie is tough given the Sirota 20/x

nonsense. He has lost the benefit of the doubt. Bernie needs to distance himself from this guy immediately. 21/x

Bernie has excellent ideas. His ideas have moved the party dramatically and I am very grateful for that. I have a father with Parkinson’s whose long-term care insurer was acquired by a murky Chinese holding company and is denying his claims after 20 years of dutifully paying 22/x

his fees. I want and need a champion for socialized healthcare. But I know I speak for tens of millions of people when I say that the veil of secrecy surrounding Bernie’s Russian entanglements and voting record must be made completely transparent. 23/x

Further, he and anyone associated with him must run a positive and ethical campaign. This isn’t the moment for games — the state of our democracy is hanging by a thread. 24/x

Thank you for bringing my sincere concerns to Bernie’s immediate attention.

Sincerely,
Cara XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

I threw out a little bait to see if I could get Nathan to fight on Twitter, but so far all that's drawn in are a few other Bernie defenders. They're a damned insular bunch, I'll give 'em that. Smile

Telstar

Telstar

Posts : 10887
Join date : 2012-06-14

Bernie's Honeymoon, back in the USSR, with his comrades.1988. It will be a lot harder on him than it was in 16. The people demand that candidates show their returns because they know now that Trump is hiding something for sure. Bernie is dragging his feet about showing his returns.

How Democrats are losing 2020, already: Trump must not win reelection, but the candidates lining up to beat him are giving a good chance Bernie10

gatorfan

gatorfan

Posts : 1919
Join date : 2014-06-11

Deus X wrote:

gatorfan wrote:...that light weight ex-bartender knows anything...

She graduated Cum Laude from Boston University with a degree in International Relations and Economics.

Where'd you get YOUR degree, Hillbilly Boy?

Here we go, it only takes ONE troll to ruin what was shaping up to be a decent thread (for once.) So you think because AOC managed to graduate with a dual degree she's untouchable. Tell you what Douche X she wasted her money on economics classes. Heard of the Green New Deal???? Did you know that unemployment is low and the economy is booming because "everyone has two jobs"? Well AOC knows that - per her own statement. She's an immature lightweight so it's no so surprise you would defend her lack of knowledge. So where did you get your degree Douche? Then I suppose next you'll want to find out who can pee the longest distance because that's how you uneducated rednecks "think".

Sal

Sal

Posts : 16310
Join date : 2012-06-13

Bernie is a politician thru and thru, although he plays a saint on TV.

He has no aversion to getting in the muck.

But if you think Bernie's dirty, Trump 2020 is gonna set a whole new standard of filth.

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How Democrats are losing 2020, already: Trump must not win reelection, but the candidates lining up to beat him are giving a good chance

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