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And in today's episode...

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1 And in today's episode... on 11/20/2018, 5:52 pm

... Donald Trump just released one of the most imbecilic, gutless, disgraceful statements ever released by any White House.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/statement-president-donald-j-trump-standing-saudi-arabia/


America First!

The world is a very dangerous place!

And a complete lack of American leadership will only make it more dangerous.  

I know Trump's base are pants-pissing cowards motivated almost entirely by fear.  I live around them, and they're a spooked herd, always sniffing and twitching and waiting to bolt en masse at the sight of a Guatemalan woman carrying a baby... but you would think that after a while even they would summon up enough pride to get tired of being treated like a flock o' chickenshits.

"Everything's dangerous!  You should be afraid!  Beg us to child-proof the world for you!"

Conservatives are always bitchin' 'bout a "nanny state" but they sure want a titty to cling to every time they're told of a new-thing-to-be-afraid-of.

I'm not sure, exactly, how sending a clear message to other countries that nobody is holding them accountable and they will absolutely be allowed to get away with literal murder is supposed to make the world safer.   And I'm not sure how America being a pushed-around punk bitch who doesn't defend its own translates to "America first," but, oh well.


After my heavily negotiated trip to Saudi Arabia last year, the Kingdom agreed to spend and invest $450 billion in the United States. This is a record amount of money. It will create hundreds of thousands of jobs, tremendous economic development, and much additional wealth for the United States. Of the $450 billion, $110 billion will be spent on the purchase of military equipment from Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon and many other great U.S. defense contractors. If we foolishly cancel these contracts, Russia and China would be the enormous beneficiaries – and very happy to acquire all of this newfound business. It would be a wonderful gift to them directly from the United States!

Or just how 'bout "We take bribes."  Because that's really what you're saying.

If Iran and North Korea would just agree to sell a few Fords, we'd let them keep their nukes.

Oh, hell, I forgot -- North Korea gets to keep their nukes, anyway, because they sent a nice letter to Big Chief Needs-a-Hug.

I mean, if you want to preserve the defense contracts, then come up with other sanctions, but for god's sake, O Master Strategist, thou, don't spell the shit out for our enemies that that's why you're giving them a freebie on murder.   "Gee, we'd like to hold you accountable, but... ummmm... we want a cookie, so... okay, kill whoever you want, it's fine, jeez, sorry we made a fuss."

The crime against Jamal Khashoggi was a terrible one, and one that our country does not condone. Indeed, we have taken strong action against those already known to have participated in the murder. After great independent research, we now know many details of this horrible crime. We have already sanctioned 17 Saudis known to have been involved in the murder of Mr. Khashoggi, and the disposal of his body.

So, basically, we'll let Capone punish the hit-men he dispatched and we'll call it square... ignoring the fact that he's the one who gave them the mission in the first place.

If that kind of "logic" actually worked, Charles Manson would never have gone to prison.

"I vas only followink orders" didn't set too many free in Nuremberg...

Representatives of Saudi Arabia say that Jamal Khashoggi was an “enemy of the state” and a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, but my decision is in no way based on that – this is an unacceptable and horrible crime.

The bad guys claim the victim was the real bad guy, and we'll just believe them and pass their bullshit along... while claiming it's immaterial.  But we just thought we'd mention it.

There are assholish moves, there are really assholish moves... and then there's that.   If you're going to claim something, then claim it.  Don't just throw it out there in an official statement and then shrug and say, "Doesn't matter anyway."  

Because it doesn't matter.  The nitty-gritty is our leadership is letting a foreign power get away with murder.  And they're helping them make excuses for it.  While trying to have it both ways by saying "we're not making excuses."   Yeah?  Then exactly why is that statement even in there, motherfucker?

I cannot stand people playing that junk.

Not only does Trump let them assassinate the man, he aids and abets them as they assassinate his character, too.

It's repulsive.



King Salman and Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman vigorously deny any knowledge of the planning or execution of the murder of Mr. Khashoggi.

Oh, well, gee, I guess they didn't do it, then.

Hey, guys, Jeffrey Dahmer denies killing anybody, either.  Give him his barrel and fridge full of heads back.




Our intelligence agencies continue to assess all information,

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/16/us/politics/cia-saudi-crown-prince-khashoggi.html

Headline says C.I.A. Concludes That Saudi Crown Prince Ordered Khashoggi Killed.   What does "concludes" mean where you guys live?   'Cuz in my area of the map it doesn't mean "continuing."  It means they got an answer.

Here's what they did:

The C.I.A. made the assessment based on the crown prince’s control of Saudi Arabia, which is such that the killing would not have taken place without his approval, and has buttressed its conclusion with two sets of crucial communications: intercepts of the crown prince’s calls in the days before the killing, and calls by the kill team to a senior aide to the crown prince.

The C.I.A. has believed for weeks that Prince Mohammed was culpable in Mr. Khashoggi’s killing but had been hesitant to definitively conclude that he directly ordered it. The agency has passed that assessment on to lawmakers and Trump administration officials.

The change in C.I.A. thinking came as new information emerged, officials said. The evidence included an intercept showing a member of the kill team calling an aide to Prince Mohammed and saying “tell your boss” that the mission was accomplished. Officials cautioned, however, that the new information is not direct evidence linking Prince Mohammed to the assassination, which was carried out in the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul.

The intercepts do show that Prince Mohammed was trying to find ways to lure Mr. Khashoggi back to Saudi Arabia, although the crown prince did not specifically say in the phone calls that he wanted to have Mr. Khashoggi killed, according to people briefed on the intelligence findings.

Sure, maybe he wanted to lure Khashoggi into his lair just to give him some cookies.

Trump says:


but it could very well be that the Crown Prince had knowledge of this tragic event – maybe he did and maybe he didn’t!

Your own intelligence agencies say he did.  They have phone calls supporting that fact.   All the Saudis have is a shrug and a head-shake no.   Oh, and a big business deal and that's why you're letting them skate and throwing one of America's first lines of defense (in a world that's "a very dangerous place!") under the bus.

That being said, we may never know all of the facts surrounding the murder of Mr. Jamal Khashoggi.

Or thus we will conclude for convenience's sake.

In any case, our relationship is with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. They have been a great ally in our very important fight against Iran. The United States intends to remain a steadfast partner of Saudi Arabia to ensure the interests of our country, Israel and all other partners in the region. It is our paramount goal to fully eliminate the threat of terrorism throughout the world!

And we won't consider the torture, murder, and dismemberment of one of our press to be "terrorism."

I understand there are members of Congress who, for political or other reasons, would like to go in a different direction – and they are free to do so.

After making clear he's doing this for political reasons -- i.e. preserving his "win" on a defense contract (which he's vastly inflating the worth of, by the way) -- Trump accuses his adversaries who may try to pursue justice of doing it for "political reasons."

Maaaaaaan, fuck you, Trump.


I will consider whatever ideas are presented to me, but only if they are consistent with the absolute security and safety of America.

And don't hold accountable any foreign power who's thrown me a nice parade.


After the United States, Saudi Arabia is the largest oil producing nation in the world. They have worked closely with us and have been very responsive to my requests to keeping oil prices at reasonable levels – so important for the world. As President of the United States I intend to ensure that, in a very dangerous world, America is pursuing its national interests and vigorously contesting countries that wish to do us harm. Very simply it is called America First!

Very simply it is called America currently has NO LEADERSHIP.

NONE.

We have a coward in the White House who's hung out a for-sale sign and even named his price.  

You think other countries don't look at this shit and giggle and say, "Wow, what can we do to take advantage of this simp?"

We're not the leader of the free world anymore.  Under Trump, we're just an arms-dealing gangster, the way a lot of those annoying-ass far-lefties have claimed.   Pay us, buy our shit, and we'll turn a blind eye.   Or don't even pay us, just say "nice things."   Trump bends over for Putin and bends over for Kim and they aren't even buying stuff, they just flattered his needy prissyboy ass.

Thanks to Trump, Saudi Arabia owns us.

Russia owns us.

North Korea owns us.

But, "America first," right?   Yeah, keep believing that.  Nifty slogan you can wave around and hoot over while the world's bad actors wreck us.  Sheeeesh.

Bring on the "what-aboutism" for this now, I'd love to even see that attempted.

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2 Re: And in today's episode... on 11/20/2018, 6:44 pm

Blame the shithole states that put him into office. Like shithole Florida, it deserves every calamity that befalls it. To hell with him and all the Florida voters that put him and his brothers in crime ( DeSantis, Scott) into office. May they all go down together. Twisted Evil

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3 Re: And in today's episode... on 11/21/2018, 7:42 am

Telstar wrote:Blame the shithole states that put him into office. Like shithole Florida, it deserves every calamity that befalls it. To hell with him and all the Florida voters that put him and his brothers in crime ( DeSantis, Scott) into office. May they all go down together. Twisted Evil

LOL, you must have been arrested in Florida......can't get over it?

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4 Re: And in today's episode... on 11/21/2018, 8:00 am

zsomething wrote:
We're not the leader of the free world anymore.  Under Trump, we're just an arms-dealing gangster, the way a lot of those annoying-ass far-lefties have claimed.   Pay us, buy our shit, and we'll turn a blind eye.   Or don't even pay us, just say "nice things."   Trump bends over for Putin and bends over for Kim and they aren't even buying stuff, they just flattered his needy prissyboy ass.

Thanks to Trump, Saudi Arabia owns us.

Russia owns us.

North Korea owns us.

But, "America first," right?   Yeah, keep believing that.  Nifty slogan you can wave around and hoot over while the world's bad actors wreck us.  Sheeeesh.


Oh, please! Take a fuckin' breath, Z!

As long as we have 10 nuclear-powered supercarrier groups roaming the world's seas--more by an order of magnitude than any other nation--and more that 13,000 military aircraft roaming the skies, we ARE the de-facto leader of the both the free and the unfree world. And it is one metric shit-ton better than anyone else doing it.

Can you imagine what the world would be like if we had folded our isolationist tent in '41? Or maybe after '45?  Holy fuckin' sweetbleedin'jesus! Imagine the Axis or the Stalinists running the world!

Granted, Trump is a serious blot on America's escutcheon but so was Nixon and so was Bush. And so fuckin' what! We'll be fine--the pendulum will swing and the world our grandkids will grow up in will be many times better than the one we were born into.

Take a breath, read a little history, check out the long-term stats for stuff like infant mortality, literacy, life-expectancy, democratic governance, poverty, likelihood of violent death, deadly pandemic disease, undernourishment etc.


Now, turn it the fuck UP and kill the fatted calf!


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5 Re: And in today's episode... on 11/21/2018, 8:13 am

Telstar wrote:Blame the shithole states that put him into office.

So …. Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania are "shithole states"?  

I got news for ya 'Tellie' … those are the States that put Trump in office.  

The South was always gonna go Republican.   Those midwestern States are the ones Clinton failed to win, but could have, should have.  The Dem party has been playing coastal, urban, and identity politics so long …. they've forgotten meat-and-potatos Democrats in the heartland and lost them.  I truly wonder if they'll ever get them back.   (but it won't be by labelling all the people in those States "racist" …. I can tell you that)

So …. where do you live 'Telliie'?   How come you never say?  Whassamatta …. ashamed of where you live?   Laughing :

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6 Re: And in today's episode... on 11/21/2018, 8:15 am

EmeraldGhost wrote:
Telstar wrote:Blame the shithole states that put him into office.

So …. Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania are "shithole states"?  

I got news for ya 'Tellie' … those are the States that put Trump in office.  

The South was always gonna go Republican.   Those midwestern States are the ones Clinton failed to win, but could have, should have.  The Dem party has been playing coastal, urban, and identity politics so long …. they've forgotten meat-and-potatos Democrats in the heartland and lost them.  I truly wonder if they'll ever get them back.   (but it won't be by labelling all the people in those States "racist" …. I can tell you that)

So …. where do you live 'Telliie'?   How come you never say?  Whassamatta …. ashamed of where you live?   Laughing :

Oh, boy, here we go...

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7 Re: And in today's episode... on 11/21/2018, 8:29 am

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8 Re: And in today's episode... on 11/21/2018, 1:14 pm

Deus X wrote:

Oh, please! Take a fuckin' breath, Z!

As long as we have 10 nuclear-powered supercarrier groups roaming the world's seas--more by an order of magnitude than any other nation--and more that 13,000 military aircraft roaming the skies, we ARE the de-facto leader of the both the free and the unfree world. And it is one metric shit-ton better than anyone else doing it.

Can you imagine what the world would be like if we had folded our isolationist tent in '41? Or maybe after '45?  Holy fuckin' sweetbleedin'jesus! Imagine the Axis or the Stalinists running the world!

Granted, Trump is a serious blot on America's escutcheon but so was Nixon and so was Bush. And so fuckin' what! We'll be fine--the pendulum will swing and the world our grandkids will grow up in will be many times better than the one we were born into.

Take a breath, read a little history, check out the long-term stats for stuff like infant mortality, literacy, life-expectancy, democratic governance, poverty, likelihood of violent death, deadly pandemic disease, undernourishment etc.


Now, turn it the fuck UP and kill the fatted calf!



Oh, I know we'll survive it... it's just infuriating that the country's THIS stupid, that they elected such a completely immoral moron, and cost us so much respect. And a lot of them are still supporting the sonofabitch. They loathed Obama and Hillary just because they thought they might do some of the shit Trump's actually doing. And, suddenly, they have nothing to say about those things.

Remember when the right-wingers pitched a category 10 conniption fit because they thought Obama bowed too deeply to the Saudi prince? You'd never hear the end of it. But Trump literally gives them a free pass on murder, because of an arms deal (and that's not even likely the real reason -- the Saudis pay Trump millions for apartments they never even use) and none of those people say a damn thing.

They scream forever about Hillary's e-mails, but Ivanka uses personal e-mail and Dumb Donald uses an unsecured phone which our enemies actually listen in on and... nurp, nothin' to see here, everything's fine.



It just goes on and on. I know a guy who turned on Obama because Obama did the wave or something with Castro's brother, which just infuriated him. Same guy now tries to defend Trump's sycophantic fawning over Putin and Kim, like that's not a thousand times worse.

Then they try to "what-about" everything, as if there's any equivalency at all between this lunatic and anyone else who's ever held that office. I mean, I thought I hated Dubya, but compared to Trump he looks like a Roosevelt.

I know they're brainwashed cultists and can't really help it, they're programmed to defend Trump like they're his personal GigaPets, but the overbearing nature of it just wears on ya after a while.

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9 Re: And in today's episode... on 11/21/2018, 1:36 pm

zsomething wrote:
Oh, I know we'll survive it... it's just infuriating that the country's THIS stupid, that they elected such a completely immoral moron, and cost us so much respect.   And a lot of them are still supporting the sonofabitch.  

That's what bugs me, that we actually elected this guy. He's exactly what he seemed to be during the campaign and yet he still got elected. WTF!

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10 Re: And in today's episode... on 11/21/2018, 5:49 pm


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11 Re: And in today's episode... on 11/21/2018, 6:33 pm

polecat wrote:

BINGO!

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12 Re: And in today's episode... on 11/22/2018, 6:28 pm

zsomething wrote:It just goes on and on.  I know a guy who turned on Obama because Obama did the wave or something with Castro's brother, which just infuriated him.   Same guy now tries to defend Trump's sycophantic fawning over Putin and Kim, like that's not a thousand times worse.  

Then they try to "what-about" everything, as if there's any equivalency at all between this lunatic and anyone else who's ever held that office.  I mean, I thought I hated Dubya, but compared to Trump he looks like a Roosevelt.

I know they're brainwashed cultists and can't really help it, they're programmed to defend Trump like they're his personal GigaPets, but the overbearing nature of it just wears on ya after a while.


I assure you, z, you are FAR from alone in these exact sentiments.

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13 Re: And in today's episode... on 11/22/2018, 7:02 pm

Well, Happy Thanksgiving everyone from the White House.

Trump threatens to close the 'whole border' with Mexico
BY MICHAEL BURKE - 11/22/18 11:50 AM EST


https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/417980-trump-threatens-to-close-the-whole-border

I bet the injuns wish they'd got that idea when the pilgrims came to town …. instead of throwing them a big feast !! Laughing Laughing

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14 Re: And in today's episode... on 11/22/2018, 7:46 pm

Well I'm all for border enforcement and tightening up our asylum laws, as well as streamlining and expanding our legal immigration processes ..... but don't these idjits realize all the border rats who get their living as "guides" getting illegals across the line & past the Border Patrol are gonna cut all that wire to smithereens in no time flat?  Or they'll hook a truck and a chain to it In the dead of night and drag it into Mexico, then sell it.  (Yeah …. they do that kind of thing.)  And as much as some Trumpkins in this country think you ought to be allowed to ….. you can't exactly shoot people for cutting or stealing concertina wire.  Not legally, anyway.  And you can't catch 'em either because they run right back soon as BP pulls up.

I bet BP and ICE Detention Division wish they had all that money in their always strapped budgets that  they're blowing on this military-on-the-border nonsense.



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15 Re: And in today's episode... on 11/22/2018, 11:02 pm

EmeraldGhost wrote:
I bet BP and ICE Detention Division wish they had all that money in their always strapped budgets that  they're blowing on this military-on-the-border nonsense.

That'll fix everything! Just give ICE Detention Division more money. More baby jails! More dog kennels full of little kids!

The mind reels at the cop mentality.

How about some more of this:

Border Patrol agent acquitted in fatal shooting of Mexican teen

A Border Patrol agent was acquitted Wednesday of involuntary manslaughter in the deadly shooting of a Mexican teen, court records show.

Lonnie Swartz was accused of shooting through a border fence in Nogales, Arizona, in 2012 and killing 16-year-old José Antonio Elena Rodríguez, who was on the Mexican side of the border. The agent fired 14 to 30 shots and 10 of those bullets hit the teen, officials said.


https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/22/us/border-patrol-agent-acquitted-mexican-teen-killing/index.html



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16 Re: And in today's episode... on 11/23/2018, 7:00 am

Deus X wrote:
EmeraldGhost wrote:
I bet BP and ICE Detention Division wish they had all that money in their always strapped budgets that  they're blowing on this military-on-the-border nonsense.

That'll fix everything! Just give ICE Detention Division more money. More baby jails!

Actually, yes it will.  

We could operate some fine (and humane) family detention centers with the money we ae blowing on this military-on-the-border nonsense.

They will quit coming in such droves when word gets back to Central America that when one is caught after having illegally crossed the US order border with (or without) accompanying juveniles, they will without exception be detained (in family detention if they are a bona-fide family unit); have a hearing before an Immigration Judge; and in 90%+ cases deported (because the reality is that as economic migrants they don't actually qualify for political asylum per current US law.)

If they are truly being persecuted by their government … why are they not safe from government persecution as soon as they arrive in Mexico?   And if illegal immigrants are such a benefit such a benefit to an economy …. why aren't they a benefit to Mexico's economy?  (a country, which, btw, if offering them legal status.

Asylum seekers are supposed to apply for asylum in the "first safe country" they arrive.  In the case of the instant influx from Central America this would be Mexico.   Mexico has offered them status (not asylum …. it's some kind of refugee type status as I understand)   And they are free to apply for asylum at any foreign embassy in Mexico … the US Embassy, Canadian, various European or South American country Embassies, etc.and have their cases adjudicated.   If they are truly asylum eligible they will be given a visa.  (but 90% of them are not)

Have you ever even seen an actual Asylum Application?   Here ya go … file:///C:/Users/Cindy/AppData/Local/Packages/Microsoft.MicrosoftEdge_8wekyb3d8bbwe/TempState/Downloads/i-589%20(1).pdf

I suggest you look particularly at Part B, Question 1, on page 5, and give me your thoughts on that vis-à-vis the vast majority of these intending illegal immigrants.  

Oh … you want to call them "refugees" …. well, where is the Democrat sponsored bill for a Central American refugee program.  There is and will be none.   Why?  Because Dem politicians really don't care.  They just want to paint rule-of-law conservatives black and try and make some political hay out of the issue.

How is this fair to the millions of people waiting patiently in their home countries for their visa number to come up who have applied for and actually have a legal claim for admission to the United States?  And why haven't Democrats in Congress sponsored bills to increase annual visa numbers (set by Congress, in fact.  But you didn't know that, didja?) in the various categories and provide more funding to State and USCIS to process those visas so people with actually valid legal claims to immigrate here won't have to wait so long?

What's your solution 'Deucie'?   Catch and release so millions of people can continue to live in the shadows in this country in a legal limbo status … and eventual as fugitives when they don't show for their hearing and are ordered deported in-absentia?   Or is it that you really have no solution?  Figures.   Rolling Eyes   You just want to whine, cry crocodile tears, point-fingers, and demonize about things you actually know nothing about.



Last edited by EmeraldGhost on 11/23/2018, 7:33 am; edited 5 times in total

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17 Re: And in today's episode... on 11/23/2018, 7:04 am

Deus X wrote: More baby jails! More dog kennels full of little kids!


Doesn't exactly look like a "dog kennel" to me …..

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18 Re: And in today's episode... on 11/23/2018, 7:21 am

Here ya go 'Deucie' …. CBP is hiring hundreds of inspectors. Why don't you go try & change things from the inside instead of armchair quarterbacking about things you know nothing about.

You can make a 100k+ a year after five to seven years on the job.

https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/514983700

Or you could go BP ….. if you think you can hack it mentally and physically.
https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/514921900

(got news for ya though …. they don't hire pimply kids and fat old men who sit around incessantly blathering about things they know nothing about on the interwebs all day and night.

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19 Re: And in today's episode... on 11/23/2018, 7:41 am

Deus X wrote:How about some more of this:

[i][font=Arial Black]Border Patrol agent acquitted in fatal shooting of Mexican teen[/size]

A Border Patrol agent was acquitted Wednesday of involuntary manslaughter in the deadly shooting of a Mexican teen, court records show.



What of it?

He was indicted, charged, and acquitted of voluntary manslaughter by a Jury of US Citizens.  And the Jury deadlocked on involuntary manslaughter so he could be re-charged with that.  Remains to be seen.Ask the US Attorney Office if and why.

What more do you want?   Convictions without trials?  Should we just let programming directors at CNN decide who goes to prison and who doesn't?  

Now, if you want my opinion about questionable police shootings in general, I'll be happy to give you that. From some(certainly not all) of the incidents that have been in the media of late that I've read about, seems we have more officers nowadays who are a bit jumpy or quick on the trigger than in years past. I know if I pulled the trigger in every circumstance I was ever in without just a bit of hesitation to see how things were going to develop, I'd probably have shot a dozen or more people in the course of my career. As it was … I never had to actually pull the trigger on somebody. I blame the militarized training and the mentality of some of the recruits they are bringing in nowadays. It's supposed to be a dangerous job …. so you have to accept a little danger, and if that means a moments hesitation to be sure of your decision, so be it.

That's just my two-cents on the issue. I understand others may differ, and I really don't care ….. esp if they've never been-there, done-that.

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20 Re: And in today's episode... on 11/23/2018, 10:43 am

EmeraldGhost wrote:What more do you want? 

I want America's Gestapo disbanded and all ICE agents named, shamed and expelled from civil society. They are a disgrace to this country.

Shootin' through a fence, JESUS!

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21 Re: And in today's episode... on 11/23/2018, 7:22 pm

Deus X wrote:
EmeraldGhost wrote:What more do you want? 

I want America's Gestapo disbanded and all ICE agents named, shamed and expelled from civil society. They are a disgrace to this country.

So ….. you are an open borders advocate.   No border/immigration enforcement at all.

Is that it?  Why don't you just say so out loud then?  

(btw … Border Patrol is CBP, not ICE.  Rolling Eyes )

Deus X wrote:
Shootin' through a fence, JESUS!

Take it up with the jury.  Or AUSA who prosecuted the case.[/quote]

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22 Re: And in today's episode... on 11/23/2018, 7:53 pm

EmeraldGhost wrote:So ….. you are an open borders advocate.

And where, exactly, did I say that?


The problem with Central American refugees is easy to fix: Repair the damage that American intervention in Latin America for over a century has created. DUH!

We should also give every applicant for asylum $10,000, a green card and beg forgiveness for having made a mess of their homelands. We created the problem and honor demands that we fix, not make it worse.

https://medium.com/s/story/timeline-us-intervention-central-america-a9bea9ebc148

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23 Re: And in today's episode... on 11/23/2018, 8:16 pm

Deus X wrote:
EmeraldGhost wrote:So ….. you are an open borders advocate.

And where, exactly, did I say that?

Where you said you wanted to abolish ICE.


Deus X wrote:The problem with Central American refugees is easy to fix: Repair the damage that American intervention in Latin America for over a century has created. [DUH!

Oh cry me a river,  Ancient geopolitical history.  May as well blame Spain.  How come you're not advocating Spain send them money?  We've sent tons of aid over the years to Central America.  Of all kinds. Bottom line … it's their own stupid ignorant culture that holds 'em back.  Same, same with Africa and most of these poverty stricken countries around the world.

And where's the Democrat bill in Congress for that, anyway?  There is and will be none.  

Deus X wrote:
We should also give every applicant for asylum $10,000, a green card and beg forgiveness for having made a mess of their homelands. We created the problem and honor demands that we fix, not make it worse.


Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Now you're really cracking me up 'Deuce'  Like that'd ever fly with the American people.  Rolling Eyes  Even 90% of Democrat politicians wouldn't get behind a bill like that!  Not if they wanted to stay in office, that is.

You really seem kinda out of touch with political reality sometimes 'Deuce' with all this pie-in-the-sky stuff that can never happen.  You're like a Trumpkin …. but opposite!  Laughing   What is it you do for a living anyway?

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24 Re: And in today's episode... on 11/24/2018, 1:08 am

EmeraldGhost wrote: We've sent tons of aid over the years to Central America.

How about this, I'll list all the interventions and you list all the aid. Here we go, I'll start:

1846
The U.S., fulfilling the doctrine of Manifest Destiny, goes to war with Mexico and ends up with a third of Mexico's territory.

1850, 1853, 1854, 1857
U.S. interventions in Nicaragua.

 1855
Tennessee adventurer William Walker and his mercenaries take over Nicaragua, institute forced labor, and legalize slavery.
He's ousted two years later by a Central American coalition largely inspired by Cornelius Vanderbilt, whose trade Walker was infringing.

 1856
First of five U.S. interventions in Panama to protect the Atlantic-Pacific railroad from Panamanian nationalists.

 1898
U.S. declares war on Spain, blaming it for destruction of the Maine. (In 1976, a U.S. Navy commission will conclude that the explosion was probably an accident.) The war enables the U.S. to occupy Cuba, Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Philippines.

 1903
The Platt Amendment inserted into the Cuban constitution grants the U.S. the right to intervene when it sees fit.

 1903
When negotiations with Colombia break down, the U.S. sends ten warships to back a rebellion in Panama in order to acquire the land for the Panama Canal. The Frenchman Philippe Bunau-Varilla negotiates the Canal Treaty and writes Panama's constitution.

 1904
U.S. sends customs agents to take over finances of the Dominican Republic to assure payment of its external debt.

 1905
U.S. Marines help Mexican dictator Porfirio Díaz crush a strike in Sonora.

 1905
U.S. troops land in Honduras for the first of 5 times in next 20 years.

 1906
Marines occupy Cuba for two years in order to prevent a civil war.

 1907
Marines intervene in Honduras to settle a war with Nicaragua.

 1908
U.S. troops intervene in Panama for first of 4 times in next decade.

 1909
Liberal President José Santos Zelaya of Nicaragua proposes that American mining and banana companies pay taxes; he has also appropriated church lands and legalized divorce, done business with European firms, and executed two Americans for participating in a rebellion. Forced to resign through U.S. pressure. The new president, Adolfo Díaz, is the former treasurer of an American mining company.

 1910
U.S. Marines occupy Nicaragua to help support the Díaz regime.

 1911
The Liberal regime of Miguel Dávila in Honduras has irked the State Department by being too friendly with Zelaya and by getting into debt with Britain. He is overthrown by former president Manuel Bonilla, aided by American banana tycoon Sam Zemurray and American mercenary Lee Christmas, who becomes commander-in-chief of the Honduran army.

 1912
U.S. Marines intervene in Cuba to put down a rebellion of sugar workers.

 1912
Nicaragua occupied again by the U.S., to shore up the inept Díaz government. An election is called to resolve the crisis: there are 4000 eligible voters, and one candidate, Díaz. The U.S. maintains troops and advisors in the country until 1925.

 1914
U.S. bombs and then occupies Vera Cruz, in a conflict arising out of a dispute with Mexico's new government. President Victoriano Huerta resigns.

 1915
U.S. Marines occupy Haiti to restore order, and establish a protectorate which lasts till 1934. The president of Haiti is barred from the U.S. Officers' Club in Port-au-Prince, because he is black.
"Think of it-- niggers speaking French!" --secretary of State William Jennings Bryan, briefed on the Haitian situation

 1916
Marines occupy the Dominican Republic, staying till 1924.

 1916
Pancho Villa, in the sole act of Latin American aggression against the U.S, raids the city of Columbus, New Mexico, killing 17 Americans.
"Am sure Villa's attacks are made in Germany." --James Gerard, U.S. ambassador to Berlin

 1917
U.S. troops enter Mexico to pursue Pancho Villa. They can't catch him.

 1917
Marines intervene again in Cuba, to guarantee sugar exports during WWI.

 1918
U.S. Marines occupy Panamanian province of Chiriqui for two years to maintain public order.

 1921
President Coolidge strongly suggests the overthrow of Guatemalan President Carlos Herrera, in the interests of United Fruit. The Guatemalans comply.

 1925
U.S. Army troops occupy Panama City to break a rent strike and keep order.

 1926
Marines, out of Nicaragua for less than a year, occupy the country again, to settle a volatile political situation. Secretary of State Kellogg describes a "Nicaraguan-Mexican-Soviet" conspiracy to inspire a "Mexican-Bolshevist hegemony" within striking distance of the Canal.
"That intervention is not now, never was, and never will be a set policy of the United States is one of the most important facts President-elect Hoover has made clear." --NYT, 1928

 1929
U.S. establishes a military academy in Nicaragua to train a National Guard as the country's army. Similar forces are trained in Haiti and the Dominican Republic.
"There is no room for any outside influence other than ours in this region. We could not tolerate such a thing without incurring grave risks... Until now Central America has always understood that governments which we recognize and support stay in power, while those which we do not recognize and support fall. Nicaragua has become a test case. It is difficult to see how we can afford to be defeated." --Undersecretary of State Robert Olds

 1930
Rafael Leonidas Trujillo emerges from the U.S.-trained National Guard to become dictator of the Dominican Republic.

 1932
The U.S. rushes warships to El Salvador in response to a communist-led uprising. President Martínez, however, prefers to put down the rebellion with his own forces, killing over 8000 people (the rebels had killed about 100).

 1933
President Roosevelt announces the Good Neighbor policy.

 1933
Marines finally leave Nicaragua, unable to suppress the guerrilla warfare of General Augusto César Sandino. Anastasio Somoza García becomes the first Nicaraguan commander of the National Guard.
"The Nicaraguans are better fighters than the Haitians, being of Indian blood, and as warriors similar to the aborigines who resisted the advance of civilization in this country." --NYT correspondent Harold Denny

 1933
Roosevelt sends warships to Cuba to intimidate Gerardo Machado y Morales, who is massacring the people to put down nationwide strikes and riots. Machado resigns. The first provisional government lasts only 17 days; the second Roosevelt finds too left-wing and refuses to recognize. A pro-Machado counter-coup is put down by Fulgencio Batista, who with Roosevelt's blessing becomes Cuba's new strongman.

 1934
Platt Amendment repealed.

 1934
Sandino assassinated by agents of Somoza, with U.S. approval. Somoza assumes the presidency of Nicaragua two years later. To block his ascent, Secretary of State Cordell Hull explains, would be to intervene in the internal affairs of Nicaragua.

 1936
U.S. relinquishes rights to unilateral intervention in Panama.

 1941
Ricardo Adolfo de la Guardia deposes Panamanian president Arias in a military coup-- first clearing it with the U.S. Ambassador.
It was "a great relief to us, because Arias had been very troublesome and very pro-Nazi." --Secretary of War Henry Stimson

 1943
The editor of the Honduran opposition paper El Cronista is summoned to the U.S. embassy and told that criticism of the dictator Tiburcio Carías Andino is damaging to the war effort. Shortly afterward, the paper is shut down by the government.

 1944
The dictator Maximiliano Hernández Martínez of El Salvador is ousted by a revolution; the interim government is overthrown five months later by the dictator's former chief of police. The U.S.'s immediate recognition of the new dictator does much to tarnish Roosevelt's Good Neighbor policy in the eyes of Latin Americans.

 1946
U.S. Army School of the Americas opens in Panama as a hemisphere-wide military academy. Its linchpin is the doctrine of National Security, by which the chief threat to a nation is internal subversion; this will be the guiding principle behind dictatorships in Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Chile, Central America, and elsewhere.

 1948
José Figueres Ferrer wins a short civil war to become President of Costa Rica. Figueres is supported by the U.S., which has informed San José that its forces in the Panama Canal are ready to come to the capital to end "communist control" of Costa Rica.

 1954
Jacobo Arbenz Guzmán, elected president of Guatemala, introduces land reform and seizes some idle lands of United Fruit-- proposing to pay for them the value United Fruit claimed on its tax returns. The CIA organizes a small force to overthrow him and begins training it in Honduras. When Arbenz naively asks for U.S. military help to meet this threat, he is refused; when he buys arms from Czechoslovakia it only proves he's a Red.
Guatemala is "openly and diligently toiling to create a Communist state in Central America... only two hours' bombing time from the Panama Canal." --Life
The CIA broadcasts reports detailing the imaginary advance of the "rebel army," and provides planes to strafe the capital. The army refuses to defend Arbenz, who resigns. The U.S.'s hand-picked dictator, Carlos Castillo Armas, outlaws political parties, reduces the franchise, and establishes the death penalty for strikers, as well as undoing Arbenz's land reform. Over 100,000 citizens are killed in the next 30 years of military rule.
"This is the first instance in history where a Communist government has been replaced by a free one." --Richard Nixon

 1957
Eisenhower establishes Office of Public Safety to train Latin American police forces.

 1959
Fidel Castro takes power in Cuba. Several months earlier he had undertaken a triumphal tour through the U.S., which included a CIA briefing on the Red menace.
"Castro's continued tawdry little melodrama of invasion." --Time, of Castro's warnings of an imminent U.S. invasion

 1960
Eisenhower authorizes covert actions to get rid of Castro. Among other things, the CIA tries assassinating him with exploding cigars and poisoned milkshakes. Other covert actions against Cuba include burning sugar fields, blowing up boats in Cuban harbors, and sabotaging industrial equipment.

 1960
The Canal Zone becomes the focus of U.S. counterinsurgency training.

 1960
A new junta in El Salvador promises free elections; Eisenhower, fearing leftist tendencies, withholds recognition. A more attractive right-wing counter-coup comes along in three months.
"Governments of the civil-military type of El Salvador are the most effective in containing communist penetration in Latin America." --John F. Kennedy, after the coup

 1960
Guatemalan officers attempt to overthrow the regime of Presidente Fuentes; Eisenhower stations warships and 2000 Marines offshore while Fuentes puts down the revolt. [Another source says that the U.S. provided air support for Fuentes.]

 1960s
U.S. Green Berets train Guatemalan army in counterinsurgency techniques. Guatemalan efforts against its insurgents include aerial bombing, scorched-earth assaults on towns suspected of aiding the rebels, and death squads, which killed 20,000 people between 1966 and 1976. U.S. Army Col. John Webber claims that it was at his instigation that "the technique of counter-terror had been implemented by the army."
"If it is necessary to turn the country into a cemetary in order to pacify it, I will not hesitate to do so." --President Carlos Arana Osorio

 1961
U.S. organizes force of 1400 anti-Castro Cubans, ships it to the Bahía de los Cochinos. Castro's army routs it.

 1961
CIA-backed coup overthrows elected Pres. J. M. Velasco Ibarra of Ecuador, who has been too friendly with Cuba.

 1962
CIA engages in campaign in Brazil to keep João Goulart from achieving control of Congress.

 1963
CIA-backed coup overthrows elected social democrat Juan Bosch in the Dominican Republic.

 1963
A far-right-wing coup in Guatemala, apparently U.S.-supported, forestalls elections in which "extreme leftist" Juan José Arévalo was favored to win.
"It is difficult to develop stable and democratic government [in Guatemala], because so many of the nation's Indians are illiterate and superstitious." --School textbook, 1964

 1964
João Goulart of Brazil proposes agrarian reform, nationalization of oil. Ousted by U.S.-supported military coup.

 1964
The free market in Nicaragua:
The Somoza family controls "about one-tenth of the cultivable land in Nicaragua, and just about everything else worth owning, the country's only airline, one television station, a newspaper, a cement plant, textile mill, several sugar refineries, half-a-dozen breweries and distilleries, and a Mercedes-Benz agency." --Life World Library

 1965
A coup in the Dominican Republic attempts to restore Bosch's government. The U.S. invades and occupies the country to stop this "Communist rebellion," with the help of the dictators of Brazil, Paraguay, Honduras, and Nicaragua.
"Representative democracy cannot work in a country such as the Dominican Republic," Bosch declares later. Now why would he say that?


 1966
U.S. sends arms, advisors, and Green Berets to Guatemala to implement a counterinsurgency campaign.
"To eliminate a few hundred guerrillas, the government killed perhaps 10,000 Guatemalan peasants." --State Dept. report on the program

 1967
A team of Green Berets is sent to Bolivia to help find and assassinate Che Guevara.

 1968
Gen. José Alberto Medrano, who is on the payroll of the CIA, organizes the ORDEN paramilitary force, considered the precursor of El Salvador's death squads.

 1970
In this year (just as an example), U.S. investments in Latin America earn $1.3 billion; while new investments total $302 million.

 1970
Salvador Allende Gossens elected in Chile. Suspends foreign loans, nationalizes foreign companies. For the phone system, pays ITT the company's minimized valuation for tax purposes. The CIA provides covert financial support for Allende's opponents, both during and after his election.

 1972
U.S. stands by as military suspends an election in El Salvador in which centrist José Napoleón Duarte was favored to win. (Compare with the emphasis placed on the 1982 elections.)

 1973
U.S.-supported military coup kills Allende and brings Augusto Pinochet Ugarte to power. Pinochet imprisons well over a hundred thousand Chileans (torture and rape are the usual methods of interrogation), terminates civil liberties, abolishes unions, extends the work week to 48 hours, and reverses Allende's land reforms.

 1973
Military takes power in Uruguay, supported by U.S. The subsequent repression reportedly features the world's highest percentage of the population imprisoned for political reasons.

 1974
Office of Public Safety is abolished when it is revealed that police are being taught torture techniques.

 1976
Election of Jimmy Carter leads to a new emphasis on human rights in Central America. Carter cuts off aid to the Guatemalan military (or tries to; some slips through) and reduces aid to El Salvador.

 1979
Ratification of the Panama Canal treaty which is to return the Canal to Panama by 1999.
"Once again, Uncle Sam put his tail between his legs and crept away rather than face trouble." --Ronald Reagan

 1980
A right-wing junta takes over in El Salvador. U.S. begins massively supporting El Salvador, assisting the military in its fight against FMLN guerrillas. Death squads proliferate; Archbishop Romero is assassinated by right-wing terrorists; 35,000 civilians are killed in 1978-81. The rape and murder of four U.S. churchwomen results in the suspension of U.S. military aid for one month. 
The U.S. demands that the junta undertake land reform. Within 3 years, however, the reform program is halted by the oligarchy.
"The Soviet Union underlies all the unrest that is going on." --Ronald Reagan

 1980
U.S., seeking a stable base for its actions in El Salvador and Nicaragua, tells the Honduran military to clean up its act and hold elections. The U.S. starts pouring in $100 million of aid a year and basing the contras on Honduran territory. 
Death squads are also active in Honduras, and the contras tend to act as a state within a state.

 1981
The CIA steps in to organize the contras in Nicaragua, who started the previous year as a group of 60 ex-National Guardsmen; by 1985 there are about 12,000 of them. 46 of the 48 top military leaders are ex-Guardsmen. The U.S. also sets up an economic embargo of Nicaragua and pressures the IMF and the World Bank to limit or halt loans to Nicaragua.

 1981
Gen. Torrijos of Panama is killed in a plane crash. There is a suspicion of CIA involvement, due to Torrijos' nationalism and friendly relations with Cuba.

 1982
A coup brings Gen. Efraín Ríos Montt to power in Guatemala, and gives the Reagan administration the opportunity to increase military aid. Ríos Montt's evangelical beliefs do not prevent him from accelerating the counterinsurgency campaign.

 1983
Another coup in Guatemala replaces Ríos Montt. The new President, Oscar Mejía Víctores, was trained by the U.S. and seems to have cleared his coup beforehand with U.S. authorities.

 1983
U.S. troops take over tiny Granada. Rather oddly, it intervenes shortly after a coup has overthrown the previous, socialist leader. One of the justifications for the action is the building of a new airport with Cuban help, which Granada claimed was for tourism and Reagan argued was for Soviet use. Later the U.S. announces plans to finish the airport... to develop tourism.

 1983
Boland Amendment prohibits CIA and Defense Dept. from spending money to overthrow the government of Nicaragua-- a law the Reagan administration cheerfully violates.

 1984
CIA mines three Nicaraguan harbors. Nicaragua takes this action to the World Court, which brings an $18 billion judgment against the U.S. The U.S. refuses to recognize the Court's jurisdiction in the case.

 1984
U.S. spends $10 million to orchestrate elections in El Salvador-- something of a farce, since left-wing parties are under heavy repression, and the military has already declared that it will not answer to the elected president.

 1989
U.S. invades Panama to dislodge CIA boy gone wrong Manuel Noriega, an event which marks the evolution of the U.S.'s favorite excuse from Communism to drugs.

 1996
The U.S. battles global Communism by extending most-favored-nation trading status for China, and tightening the trade embargo on Castro's Cuba.



Now go ahead, list all the aid.

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25 Re: And in today's episode... on 11/30/2018, 12:36 pm

Now in today's episode of The Donald Trump Show

(the Donald Trump Show Theme song -- which is basically an untalented kid trying to play "Yackety-Sax" with armpit-farts while a demented chimp flails at an empty trash can with a fistful of wet yarn -- plays at an uncomfortable volume)

Trump declares he's meeting with Putin because he thinks it's a good time for it.

Then an hour later, Trump cancels the meeting because of the Ukraine situation.

Putin says, "No, Donald, vhe reject your cancellation of the meeting. Do vhat you are told."

Trump says, "Yes sir, when should I be there, sir? Should I wear heels, sir? Would you like me to bring a cake or anything? What dance would you like to see?"



A defiant Trump sits quietly in his typical submissive squat-and-piddle please-like-me posture at the meeting he canceled, showin' them Ruskies who's boss!





And FOX tried to call Obama a weakling because he once bowed deeper than they thought he oughtta.




Tune in for our next episode, where Trump rolls over and kicks his leg while Putin gives him a bellyrub.

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