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The King and Queen of Cruelty

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1 The King and Queen of Cruelty on 6/21/2018, 11:56 am


You just can’t construct prisons for babies. You can’t rip children from mothers and fathers. You can’t use the power of the American government to institute and oversee a program of state-sponsored child abuse. You can’t have a system where the process and possibility of reunification is murky and maybe futile.

You can’t do any of that and assume that decent people won’t rise up in revolt.

Donald Trump learned that this week as an avalanche of indignation came down on him and his administration for his brutal, inhumane “zero tolerance” policy at the border, which was resulting in the terrible suffering of children and their parents.

Citizens were outraged. Politicians were outraged. Corporate leaders were outraged. Foreign leaders were outraged. The pope was outraged.

This is an immoral act of an immoral man, one who saw absolutely no flaw in using the anguish of children and families — people he viewed as deficient and less-than, “not their best” — as pawns in a political fight to force Congress to fund his ridiculous hate symbol: a border wall between the U.S. and Mexico.

He clearly didn’t even think that this was a losing battle for him. He thought using border agents to abduct these children was a winning idea.

On Wednesday, The Associated Press reported: “President Donald Trump sees his hard-line immigration stance as a winning issue heading into a midterm election he views as a referendum on his protectionist policies.”

A Republican member of Congress told CNN that Trump said on Tuesday during a closed-door meeting that “the crying babies doesn’t look good politically.”

Indeed, a CNN poll conducted by SSRS and released Monday found although two-thirds of Americans overall opposed the policy, a majority of Republicans supported it.

Think about that for a second. That to me goes beyond standard political tribalism. That ventures into the territory that the Tennessee Republican senator Bob Corker described last week: This is cultlike.

Trump’s grip on the throat of the Republican Party is so strong that it no longer has breath or voice for objection.

As goes Trump, so goes it.

Not even the sight of devastated families could move the party that once called itself the party of family values. Not even the idea of “tender age” internment camps for babies could move the party built on the protection of “unborn babies.”

The contradiction is abominable.

It’s not that Trump and his family don’t understand the downside of imposing even the smallest amount of stress on children. It’s just that they value different children in differing degrees.

Melania Trump clearly thought that it was too traumatic to move the couple’s young son to Washington during the school year, so she stayed with him in New York, costing taxpayers tens of millions of dollars for security.

As Ms. Trump told Us Weekly in January 2016 about talking to the couple’s son about potentially moving to Washington:

“At that age, it’s hard to explain to them. … I tell him: Take it day by day, enjoy your life, live your meaningful life as I like to do. … Of course, at that age, every child would worry, especially if they love school, if they love friends; they don’t want to lose that. Everything is a new opportunity and it brings new friends and a new school. You never know, you never know what happens. Enjoy it day by day, live your life and don’t stress yourself.”

No, please don’t stress yourself. Stress is for poor people, like immigrants.

Even though, as The New York Times reported, sparing their son from the stress of changing schools and moving from a luxury Manhattan apartment to one of the most famous and important residences in the world cost the New York Police Department an estimated $127,000 to $146,000 a day “to protect the first lady and her son while they reside in Trump Tower.”

Melania Trump didn’t move to the White House until last June.

In May 2017 Reuters reported:

“A federal spending agreement reached late on Sunday will reimburse New York City for money spent securing U.S. President Donald Trump and his family at Trump Tower in Manhattan.”

Yes, she made an unusual step in publicly condemning the family separation policy, but she did so using her husband’s false “both sides of the aisle” talking point. That was a lie. The president alone started this and had the power to end it.

Then she tweeted this tone-deaf, Marie Antoinette-ish statement, as her husband was still separating children from their parents and sending them to internment camps:

“A great visit with the King & Queen of Spain at the @WhiteHouse today. Queen Letizia & I enjoyed tea & time together focusing on the ways we can positively impact children.”

Enjoyed tea? Positively impact children?

I just can’t.

Now some people are reporting that she quietly pressured her husband behind the scenes to reverse the policy.

Is she or her husband going to visit the child internment camps he created, to see what they wrought and console the crying children there? Is either going to work tirelessly for the swift reunification of every single family that has been torn apart? Will either publicly apologize to the families who were damaged?

Until then, I give her no laurels. Donald and Melania are a team in this terror. They have worked together to make the abhorrent normal. They deserve each other; we deserve better.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/20/opinion/family-separation-melania-trump.html?action=click&module=Ribbon&pgtype=Article

***********

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2 Re: The King and Queen of Cruelty on 6/21/2018, 12:28 pm

"You just can’t construct prisons for babies. You can’t rip children from mothers and fathers. You can’t use the power of the American government to institute and oversee a program of state-sponsored child abuse. "

Oh really? Where have you been" State childrens services do it every day. Sometimes for good reasons and sometimes because of poorly trained or idiot investigators. What do you think happens to those kids? They are jerked out of their homes and pushed into temporary foster homes or an institution.

"On any given day, there are nearly 428,000 children in foster care in the United States. In 2015, over 670,000 children spent time in U.S. foster care. On average, children remain in state care for nearly two years and six percent of children in foster care have languished there for five or more years."

http://www.childrensrights.org/newsroom/fact-sheets/foster-care/

How many juveniles are in jail for BS reasons?

"Juveniles constitute 1,200 of the 1.5 million people housed in federal and state prisons in this country, and nearly 200,000 youth enter the adult criminal-justice system each year, most for non-violent crimes. On any given day, 10,000 juveniles are housed in adult prisons and jails. Jan 8, 2016
The Steep Costs of Imprisoning Juvenile Offenders in Adult Prisons ...
https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/01/...juveniles...prisons/423201/

Too many people ignore the larger problems right here and focus on the "politically correct" crisis of the minute. GMAFB.....

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3 Re: The King and Queen of Cruelty on 6/21/2018, 12:47 pm

Too many people ignore the larger problems right here and focus on the "politically correct" crisis of the minute. GMAFB.....


There is a wrong answer. There is a correct answer. There is no politically correct answer. Sessions seething with sneers quotes the bible like his Alabama ancestors did to justify slavery and the separation of families at that time to make a profit off human beings. There was a wrong answer at that time. There was a correct answer. There never was a politically correct answer.

Evil government separates children from their families. The choice is a simple moral choice between evil and good, and misusing scripture to put whip cream on chit is NOT political correctness, it is simply evil.

Our Juvenile justice system is far from perfect, but it starts with a premise to protect children, and any failing in that mission is not good, it does not represent the evil of Sessions and folks from Alabama who think Muslims, blacks, and Mexicans are below them.....sorry, they start with the evil proposition that abuse of children is a legitimate policy goal. Two different animals which anybody not from Alabama can see immediately.

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4 Re: The King and Queen of Cruelty on 6/21/2018, 1:59 pm

2seaoat wrote:Too many people ignore the larger problems right here and focus on the "politically correct" crisis of the minute. GMAFB.....


There is a wrong answer.   There is a correct answer.  There is no politically correct answer.  Sessions seething with sneers quotes the bible like his Alabama ancestors did to justify slavery and the separation of families at that time to make a profit off human beings.   There was a wrong answer at that time.  There was a correct answer.  There never was a politically correct answer.

Evil government separates children from their families.   The choice is a simple moral choice between evil and good, and misusing scripture to put whip cream on chit is NOT political correctness, it is simply evil.

Our Juvenile justice system is far from perfect, but it starts with a premise to protect children, and any failing in that mission is not good, it does not represent the evil of Sessions and folks from Alabama who think Muslims, blacks, and Mexicans are below them.....sorry, they start with the evil proposition that abuse of children is a legitimate policy goal.  Two different animals which anybody not from Alabama can see immediately.

Once again you totally misinterpreted what I posted. Sigh....

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5 Re: The King and Queen of Cruelty on 6/21/2018, 2:24 pm


Yes, there are problems with juveniles in the court system. That doesn't make this current crisis at the border any less heinous. I grew up 200 miles from the Mexican border. Hispanic culture is as much as part of me as my German/British/French/Scotch Irish ancestry. And even if that wasn't the case, the mother and grandmother that I am recoils from this human atrocity.

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6 Re: The King and Queen of Cruelty on 6/21/2018, 3:26 pm

Floridatexan wrote:
You just can’t construct prisons for babies.

"Prisons?" HHS Office of Refugee Resettlement runs "prisons for babies."  Didn't know that? Hmmm?

Well, then damn those evil people at the Department of Health and Human Services.   Damn them all to hell!  We should lock them up. Abolish their entire agency maybe?  Who needs 'em !!!  Nazis !!! Probably a bunch of white supremacists.

Floridatexan wrote:
You can’t rip children from mothers and fathers.

It was happening when Obama was in office.   Were he and Michelle also the King and Queen of cruelty?  So stupid of the Republicans not to make some political hay out of it back then, huh?  It just wasn't happening on the current scale, but it was.

I didn't vote for Trump, and didn't vote for Obama.  I'm just sayin'

And of course, as I have stated previously on here, I personally disagree with Trump/Sessions/Miller on this current policy of Federally prosecuting for 8 USC 1325 (a really piddly charge, I can tell you) absolutely every illegal alien that crosses the border ( which is what is currently driving this whole separating children from parents thing to the levels its at currently) There used to be a thing called "prosecutorial discretion" vis-a-vis illegal aliens.    (I bet the US Attorney Offices absolutely hate this new policy and can't wait for it to end)

Although in my knowledge/experience it probably is an effective deterrent strategy, as they claim .. and catch-and-release of people crossing with children was not the best policy either really.   Shooting every pot smoker in the country and taking away their kids might be an effective deterrent to that too  .. but IMO some roads you just shouldn't go down .... and find other ways.

So .. how do you feel about all the US Citizen mothers who have their children ripped from them  when charged with some relatively minor criminal offense.  (in vastly greater numbers annually even than what's happening with illegal aliens on the border currently)  Are you as concerned?  Shouldn't we have a thread on that?  Or two, or three even?  Where's the care?  Where's CNN?  Where's the humanity !!!!

Also .. and more pertinent to the immediate topic .... what do you suggest?  Go back to the previous policy of releasing every alien sneaks across our southern border in the dead of night .. to have them disappear into the woodwork of America?  People who we sometimes have to take their word for it what their real name is even? That's not good policy either IMO.

So, I'd be anxious to know how you think these situations should be handled.  It's easy to be a critic ... takes a little more work to solve a problem.

(yeah, yeah 'Flo' ... I know your immediate instinct is going to be post back about how I'm most certainly an evil Nazi racist white supremacist traitorous something or other.   Spare me having to listen to that old broken record once again.  Rolling Eyes  )

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7 Re: The King and Queen of Cruelty on 6/21/2018, 3:39 pm

1 thing I know for sure: no one on the right side of history has ever had to nitpick what the definition of ''cage'' is.
Stephen Colbert.

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8 Re: The King and Queen of Cruelty on 6/21/2018, 3:42 pm

polecat wrote:1 thing I know for sure: no one on the right side of history has ever had to nitpick what the definition of ''cage'' is.
Stephen Colbert.

And your suggestion as to how we should handle the problem of aliens sneaking across our border in the dead of night with a child in tow is .....?

Let 'em go?  

Family detention centers?  I'm an advocate of that one personally .. but the activists sued Obama over it to the point they pretty much gave up pursuing the initiative much further.

 https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/18/opinion/mr-obamas-dubious-detention-centers.html  


... If the Obama administration took its principles to heart, it would be closing its family prisons and abandoning its emphasis on border crackdowns in favor of greater efforts to connect Central Americans with pro bono lawyers and to provide family- and community-based alternatives to detention. Much money and effort have been spent to deter and detain them, to speed them through court, to hunt down those who are later found to be deportable. ...

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9 Re: The King and Queen of Cruelty on 6/21/2018, 6:49 pm

EmeraldGhost wrote:
And your suggestion as to how we should handle the problem of aliens sneaking across our border in the dead of night with a child in tow is .....?

Let 'em go?  

Yes, let 'em go so they can do the nasty, low-paid, back-breaking jobs native-born Americans don't want to do--see Salem, OH of recent days.

And then, after ten years or so, give 'em amnesty and let 'em become citizens--their kids and grandkids'll make great Americans, just like the rest us.

Except for the Indians, we're all immigrants here.

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10 Re: The King and Queen of Cruelty on 6/21/2018, 6:58 pm

Deus X wrote:
EmeraldGhost wrote:
And your suggestion as to how we should handle the problem of aliens sneaking across our border in the dead of night with a child in tow is .....?

Let 'em go?  

Yes, let 'em go so they can do the nasty, low-paid, back-breaking jobs native-born Americans don't want to do--see Salem, OH of recent days.

And then, after ten years or so, give 'em amnesty and let 'em become citizens--their kids and grandkids'll make great Americans, just like the rest us.

Except for the Indians, we're all immigrants here.

So ... open-borders, then.

Okay.  I can respect an honest answer ... even if I may not agree with it.  Thank you for stepping up with some intellectual honesty there, 'Deuce'

Now we're getting down to what this is really all about from the left.  What it's really about is an A. an open-borders agenda, and B. an opportunity for public demonization of Republicans as Nazis for political purposes.

Funny ain't it how all these Dem politicians weren't putting on this big public crocodile tears show about it when Obama was doing it. Obama deported a hell of a lot of people, you know ... statistically speaking. (he killed a lot of innocent Muslims too .. but that's a different topic.)

No worries though ... I do know Republican pols engage in the same behaviors of politicizing problems in order to demonize Democrats, instead of working to actually solve them. Don't think I'm surprised though .. I some years go became really disgusted by both parties.

Anybody else wanna step up?  Solutions?  Anyone?

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11 Re: The King and Queen of Cruelty on 6/21/2018, 7:15 pm

EmeraldGhost wrote:
Deus X wrote:
EmeraldGhost wrote:
And your suggestion as to how we should handle the problem of aliens sneaking across our border in the dead of night with a child in tow is .....?

Let 'em go?  

Yes, let 'em go so they can do the nasty, low-paid, back-breaking jobs native-born Americans don't want to do--see Salem, OH of recent days.

And then, after ten years or so, give 'em amnesty and let 'em become citizens--their kids and grandkids'll make great Americans, just like the rest us.

Except for the Indians, we're all immigrants here.

So ... open-borders, then.

Okay.  I can respect an honest answer ... even if I may not agree with it.  Thank you for stepping up with some intellectual honesty there, 'Deuce'

Now we're getting down to what this is really all about from the left.  What it's really about is an A.  an open-borders agenda, and B. an opportunity for public demonization of Republicans as Nazis for political purposes.

Funny ain't it how all these Dem politicians weren't putting on this big public crocodile tears show about it when Obama was doing it.  Obama deported a hell of a lot of people, you know ... statistically speaking.  (he killed a lot of innocent Muslims too .. but that's a different topic.)

No worries though ... I do know Republican pols engage in the same behaviors of politicizing problems in order to demonize Democrats, instead of working to actually solve them.  Don't think I'm surprised though .. I some years go became really disgusted by both parties.

Anybody else wanna step up?  Solutions?  Anyone?

Are you done editing your post? I don't want to bother countering it to find you've changed it before I hit Send.

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12 Re: The King and Queen of Cruelty on 6/21/2018, 8:30 pm

Okay, I guess you're done...     for now.


EmeraldGhost wrote:So ... open-borders, then.

No, not "open-borders", just fairness. The U.S. has exploited and intervened in Mexico and Central America for decades and now the thugs from ICE/CBE want to hunt down and imprison any of their citizens who flee the mess we created and beg for refuge. Immigration in this country has always been about white-supremacy starting with the Chinese Exclusion Act.

We stole the Southwest from Mexico then drove the formerly-Mexican land-owners off their property so we could steal that too! Now, we don't want to let them in to do the work none of us want to do. I'm surprised ICE/CBE agents aren't wearing brownshirts yet, as we creep towards totalitarianism.

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