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House Republicans Vote to Release Secret Memo on Russia Inquiry

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What's the problem? I hate the govt hiding their actions behind classification and subterfuge.

The only thing I want kept from we the people is perhaps foreign counter intelligence... but very limited.

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The intelligence agencies simply want to vet what is released so that their agents will not be exploited by information given. This exact same debate happened in 2013 concerning torture, and the senate committee took six months working with intelligence agencies to protect assets before the torture report was released.

I have zero problem with the release of this smoke screen as long as folks protect our people. Any intelligent person can see a pattern where an innocent man would never obstruct and hinder all investigations regarding Russia. I am certain that there will be obstruction charges, and they will follow the money which will show quid pro quo from the Russians. They are not going to pull the trigger until they have it all laid out, which means Trump can continue to fight the investigation. An innocent man would not behave like Trump. He is a lying manipulative fourth grader who actually thinks this release of information will change anything. Donald Trump and members of his family are traitors as Russia assists the Taliban and our soldiers die, and North Korea has gotten real assistance from the Russians in their nuclear program. Traitor. He still has failed to impose the sanctions. Bought and paid for traitor.

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The fbi and doj fought transparency and accountability... and still are.  Heads should roll.

https://intelligence.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=854

House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence Chairman Devin Nunes issued the following statement today:

“Having stonewalled Congress’ demands for information for nearly a year, it’s no surprise to see the FBI and DOJ issue spurious objections to allowing the American people to see information related to surveillance abuses at these agencies. The FBI is intimately familiar with ‘material omissions’ with respect to their presentations to both Congress and the courts, and they are welcome to make public, to the greatest extent possible, all the information they have on these abuses. Regardless, it’s clear that top officials used unverified information in a court document to fuel a counter-intelligence investigation during an American political campaign. Once the truth gets out, we can begin taking steps to ensure our intelligence agencies and courts are never misused like this again.”

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It is so stupid.  I mean it is mind bending for someone to think that the dossier was the threshold for a probable cause fisa warrant.  It was Carter's contacts which raised probable cause.  Too funny that folks who try to politicize the judicial process do not even understand the standards of how a warrant is issued.  This is paint by the numbers propaganda.

Just to understand how easy the probable cause threshold is on these warrants....in 24 years there has only been one appeal for a denial of a warrant.
The dossier was not the relevant part of the Carter matter, but keep sucking up pure nonsense.



Last edited by 2seaoat on 1/31/2018, 10:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

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2seaoat wrote: I am certain that there will be obstruction charges, and they will follow the money which will show quid pro quo from the Russians.   They are not going to pull the trigger until they have it all laid out, which means Trump can continue to fight the investigation.  An innocent man would not behave like Trump.  

So what? Even if the House flips and he's impeached, he still has to be convicted by a 2/3 vote in the Senate. Need I remind you of a similar situation in the not-too-far-distant past?

Absent some stunning revelation, he's in office at least until 2020. And if there's some 9/11-level terrorist attack, he might get re-elected even then.

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I do not give a rat's tail about the politics of Trump's crimes, nor the politics of impeachment. I only care what the grand jury says.

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2seaoat wrote:I do not give a rat's tail about the politics of Trump's crimes, nor the politics of impeachment.  I only care what the grand jury says.  

Who cares what a Grand Jury says? Even they find a true bill, lawyers will be arguing about whether or not a sitting President can even be indicted until well-past 2020. This whole episode is nothing more than a Constitutional Lawyers Full Employment Act.

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If a grand jury finds a crime, the game changes. If they find nothing, the game changes. This has little to do with politics at this juncture, and my personal focus is on what the grand jury will find or not find.

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If I'm not mistaken, there are 2 grand juries. And then there's the not so little matter of NY investigations, over which Trump has no power to pardon anyone. Schneiderman has been cooperating with Mueller for months. The fact that Sessions has recently been questioned leads me to believe that the investigation is shifting into high gear.

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2seaoat wrote:It is so stupid.  I mean it is mind bending for someone to think that the dossier was the threshold for a probable cause fisa warrant.  It was Carter's contacts which raised probable cause.  Too funny that folks who try to politicize the judicial process do not even understand the standards of how a warrant is issued.  This is paint by the numbers propaganda.

Just to understand how easy the probable cause threshold is on these warrants....in 24 years there has only been one appeal for a denial of a warrant.
The dossier was not the relevant part of the Carter matter, but keep sucking up pure nonsense.

Good... if the dossier were used to gain a fisa warrant then you're on board with consequences. You do remember that there was a previous attempt to spy on the Trump campaign? The fisa court actually rejected it... a rare occurrence. Then it was filed again with "additional evidence". What if that were the dossier? Apparently it was. A false article used to influence a federal court in order to spy on the opposition during a presidential campaign. A new low. The memo is claimed to be a referenced fact based account... supported by corresponding evidence that the doj and fbi fought tooth and nail to withhold. I guess if I were them and had tried to influence a federal election with Russian counter - intelligence I would too. Do they still hang traitors?

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Don't forget that this memo is not a product of the FBI but the creation of Nunez's staffers who apparently cut and pasted tidbit from top secret documents to form a story that makes it appear that there was something amiss about the FISA warrant.

The intelligence community is screaming about the twisted nature of the memo.

Even if reasonable people can see through this hail Mary maneuver we all know there is a better than even chance that the Fox News folks will swallow this story hook line and sinker. Public opinion matters.

Sorry to say the Democrats on the committee so far are not being allowed to issue their own written statement correcting the misleading information we are going to be treated to when they release the memo tomorrow. (If they go ahead with the release.)

Is this a plot to get rid of Christopher Wray?


WASHINGTON — The F.B.I. clashed publicly with President Trump for the first time on Wednesday, condemning a push by House Republicans to release a secret memo that purports to show how the bureau and the Justice Department abused their authority to obtain a warrant to spy on a former Trump campaign adviser.

“The F.B.I. was provided a limited opportunity to review this memo the day before the committee voted to release it,” the bureau said in a statement, referring to the House Intelligence Committee. “As expressed during our initial review, we have grave concerns about material omissions of fact that fundamentally impact the memo’s accuracy.”

The high-profile comment by the F.B.I. thrust Christopher A. Wray, the bureau’s director, into a confrontation with the president, who abruptly fired his predecessor, James B. Comey. Mr. Wray had pleaded in recent days at the White House to keep the document private.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/31/us/politics/fbi-director-republicans-secret-memo.html

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Floridatexan wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, there are 2 grand juries.  And then there's the not so little matter of NY investigations, over which Trump has no power to pardon anyone.  Schneiderman has been cooperating with Mueller for months.  The fact that Sessions has recently been questioned leads me to believe that the investigation is shifting into high gear.  

And then what? What is your idea of the best case outcome of all those situations? Remember, he's a sitting President of the United States.

Do you imagine that agents of the U.S. Marshals Service or the New York Bureau of Criminal Investigation are going to drag him out of the Oval Office in chains?

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So now the dems endorse law enforcement and a clandestine police state with full faith in their veracity... without transparency or accountability. Just another leftist 180 when it's politically expedient. How shocking. Rolling Eyes

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PkrBum wrote:So now the dems endorse law enforcement and a clandestine police state with full faith in their veracity... without transparency or accountability. Just another leftist 180 when it's politically expedient. How shocking. Rolling Eyes

It is hardly transparency to pull a stunt like Nunez is trying. As usual the Republicans are playing dirty pool, making their own rules, breaking the ones they don't want to follow while the FBI and Democrats continue to color within the lines.

Adam Schiff is now saying that Nunez altered the memo sent to the WH to be read (even though Trump said he will release it 100% apparently without reading it, why bother) so it is not even the same memo that the GOPer's in the committee voted to release. Way to go.

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othershoe1030 wrote:
PkrBum wrote:So now the dems endorse law enforcement and a clandestine police state with full faith in their veracity... without transparency or accountability. Just another leftist 180 when it's politically expedient. How shocking. Rolling Eyes

It is hardly transparency to pull a stunt like Nunez is trying. As usual the Republicans are playing dirty pool, making their own rules, breaking the ones they don't want to follow while the FBI and Democrats continue to color within the lines.

Adam Schiff is now saying that Nunez altered the memo sent to the WH to be read (even though Trump said he will release it 100% apparently without reading it, why bother) so it is not even the same memo that the GOPer's in the committee voted to release. Way to go.

#fakenews The wh apparently made changes to somewhat appease the FBI.

This entire episode is what's dirty. Open the windows... let the sunshine in. What's wrong with that?

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Too funny. I cannot believe there is one forum member who has fallen for this absurd proposition that to get a fisa warrant is difficult. It literally is rubber stamping. Now if somebody wants to raise the standard for a fisa warrant, please have the Republican Party go to the American people and tell them they want to make it more difficult for a judge to approve a warrant to tap a known terrorist who is making threats and is calling people in America. Go for it, but this paint by the number propaganda is for dummies. Embarassed

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You seem to have complete faith in the federal law enforcement agencies... how cute.

Andrew McCabe learned of thousands of emails found on Anthony Weiner’s laptop at least a month before alerting lawmakers

https://www.wsj.com/articles/fbi-officials-delayed-telling-congress-of-clinton-emails-discovered-before-2016-election-1517450265

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So Nunes lets Congress okay the release of the document... and then he re-writes the document!

It's like they're not even bothering to cover up their corruption anymore, because they've gotten so spoiled by Republicans in Congress and FOX News helping them with all their schemes. It's turning into a Three Stooges skit already.

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zsomething wrote:So Nunes lets Congress okay the release of the document... and then he re-writes the document!

It's like they're not even bothering to cover up their corruption anymore, because they've gotten so spoiled by Republicans in Congress and FOX News helping them with all their schemes.  It's turning into a Three Stooges skit already.

The wh has the document and is the ultimate authority on its content, classification, and release.

Gawd y'all are a whiny bunch.

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2seaoat wrote:Too funny.  I cannot believe there is one forum member who has fallen for this absurd proposition that to get a fisa warrant is difficult.  It literally is rubber stamping.  .....  

You've obviously never sat in a Federal Judge's chambers and been grilled on the contents of your affidavit.  

Perhaps you are thinking of Grand Juries and the old saying about indicting a ham sandwich.   Getting a search warrant from a Federal Judge is a whole different ball of wax than getting a subpoena or indictment from a grand jury.  I can assure you getting a search warrant from a Federal Judge is never a rubber-stamp process.  
2seaoat wrote:I do not give a rat's tail about the politics of Trump's crimes, nor the politics of impeachment.  I only care what the grand jury says.  
Grand Jurys, OTOH are .... well, shall we say --- they can be easily led.   Now ... that said.  In my experience kind of uncommon for a US Attorney to allow a case to go to even go before a Grand Jury if they didn't think they had a 90+% chance of pleaing the charge out or winning at trial based on the evidence.

I've never gotten a warrant from the FISA court (I was never that high level of an investigator) ... but I do know it's general practice in any kind of complicated, high-level, or sensitive investigation an affidavit for a search warrant to get written, re-written, reviewed, re-reviewed by at least two (if not more) people at the investigative agency ) before it even goes to the US Attorney Office. The USAO then does their own reviews and it's not uncommon for the affidavit to be kicked back to the investigator(s) for changes. Then an advance copy is sent to the Judge's office where it's reviewed often by clerks, paralegals, and finally the Judge him/herself. If the Judge's office has no issues with the affidavit they contact the AUSA who in turn contacts the Agent(s) who go see the Judge & swear it out & get their warrant.

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From what I've read about it thus far, and from what I know of Federal investigations and the Federal judiciary ... this Nunes memo is a big nothing-burger.   It's a political document written by a politician and it's primary purpose is as a distraction and to attempt to discredit the Mueller investigation and the FBI.

(btw - Mr Nunes has had a little trouble with the FBI himself in the past)


https://www.justsecurity.org/51630/five-questions-nunes-memo-answer/ wrote:The Nunes Memo reportedly alleges that at least a dozen FBI agents and DOJ prosecutors fabricated evidence, engaged in a criminal conspiracy to commit perjury, lucked out on being randomly assigned Judge Low Blood Sugar who looked the other way, and — coincidentally — ended up obtaining evidence that justified extending the initial FISA surveillance. ...

If Nunes has in fact singlehandedly uncovered this vast criminal enterprise, it’s hard to know what’s more astonishing: That a government bureaucracy managed to pull it off — or that Nunes has exposed it all in a scant four-page memo
.

So this Nunes character is questioning the assessment of a Federal Juge as to whether probable cause existed or not regarding the surveillance warrant in question?   Nunes education and experience is in agriculture ... not law!  Sheesh!

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Another thought on this "Nunes memo" thing.

Best way to beat a drug case ... get the search warrant thrown out. You could have been caught red-handed with 10 million dollars of cocaine in your house, if you can get the search warrant thrown out you're good to go.

It's a pretty standard defense tacit that if you can't attack the evidence, then --- attack the warrant; attack the investigators; create doubts in the jury's mind as to the credibility of investigators and witnesses;, etc etc

That's all that's going on here. Only difference is this is being played out in the court of public opinion rather than a court of law (so far)

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