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If we all walk for an hour or two ... the republicans will abandon him.

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I picked this quote comment up from a Frank Rich story about Trump Imploding -- http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/trump-has-moved-a-step-cl

+3 # sbessho 2018-01-11 21:32
"It remains a liberal wet dream that a GOP-controlled Congress would impeach Trump, or that members of his Cabinet would invoke the 25th Amendment to yank him out of the White House."

What Rich and other pundits continue to ignore is the fact that even Republicans will respond if the people get together and demand impeachment. Of course they will not act on their own, but in the face of overwhelming public demand, they would have to act. And they will, just as the Republicans turned against Richard Nixon when it became politically impossible for them to continue denying that he had committed impeachable acts. All that is necessary is a mass movement--in the streets--demanding the ouster of Trump."

Now that's a really great idea!!

All that is necessary is a mass movement -- in the streets -- demanding the ouster of Trump.

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Wordslinger wrote:I picked this quote comment up from a Frank Rich story about Trump Imploding -- http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/trump-has-moved-a-step-cl

+3 # sbessho 2018-01-11 21:32
"It remains a liberal wet dream that a GOP-controlled Congress would impeach Trump, or that members of his Cabinet would invoke the 25th Amendment to yank him out of the White House."

What Rich and other pundits continue to ignore is the fact that even Republicans will respond if the people get together and demand impeachment. Of course they will not act on their own, but in the face of overwhelming public demand, they would have to act. And they will, just as the Republicans turned against Richard Nixon when it became politically impossible for them to continue denying that he had committed impeachable acts. All that is necessary is a mass movement--in the streets--demanding the ouster of Trump."

Now that's a really great idea!!

All that is necessary is a mass movement -- in the streets -- demanding the ouster of Trump.





Sure let's march for impeachment but let's get out the vote and take back Congress and the Senate too. 45 is just part of the cancer that has engulfed our nation. Cut out the cancer and save our country. Vote blue in 2018.

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Wordslinger wrote:I picked this quote comment up from a Frank Rich story about Trump Imploding --

"It remains a liberal wet dream that a GOP-controlled Congress would impeach Trump, or that members of his Cabinet would invoke the 25th Amendment to yank him out of the White House."

What Rich and other pundits continue to ignore is the fact that even Republicans will respond if the people get together and demand impeachment. Of course they will not act on their own, but in the face of overwhelming public demand, they would have to act. And they will, just as the Republicans turned against Richard Nixon when it became politically impossible for them to continue denying that he had committed impeachable acts. All that is necessary is a mass movement--in the streets--demanding the ouster of Trump."

Now that's a really great idea!!

All that is necessary is a mass movement -- in the streets -- demanding the ouster of Trump.

Mass movements are glacially slow; the Civil Rights and Anti-war movements took years to come to fruition. Remember: RICHARD NIXON WAS RE-ELECTED! It was the crimes committed by CREEP--the Committee to RE-Elect the President--that ultimately led to his downfall.

Even if Democrats take the House in November, impeachment is unlikely since it takes 2/3 of the Senate to convict. Clinton was impeached, you may recall, but not convicted in the Senate and served out his full term.

The likelihood is that we're stuck with Trump until 2020 and if there's a war, a major terrorist attack here or some other significant event--an economic catastrophe ala 2008, for instance--we might see him re-elected in 2020.

It is possible that if the Mueller investigation uncovers some really serious crimes, his Republican cohort might turn on him, but Republicans are working hard to de-legitimize that possibility.

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There will be women's marches across the country January 20th, including Pensacola.

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Floridatexan wrote:
There will be women's marches across the country January 20th, including Pensacola.  

What do you--or they--expect that will accomplish?

Did the Women's marches after the inauguration make any real difference? They got news coverage for a couple days but I'm not sure they accomplished anything. What am I missing?

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Deus X wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
There will be women's marches across the country January 20th, including Pensacola.  

What do you--or they--expect that will accomplish?

Did the Women's marches after the inauguration make any real difference? They got news coverage for a couple days but I'm not sure they accomplished anything. What am I missing?

What you are missing is the effect the women's march had on women all over the world. Women started to find their public voice. It has spilled over into the avalanche of revelations re sexual harassment, pay inequity and general prejudice against women in the workplace. It served the purpose of helping to organize an entire movement, that's all.

Public demonstrations work. Politicians pay attention and respond appropriately News and attitudes change more quickly these days than they did back in the Nixon era. The thing is, if people are willing to show up at a street rally they are also likely to show up as volunteers for political campaigns to help get out the vote. (and to vote)

Remember the Tea Party movement? Remember Fox news "reporting" on the times and places that rallies would be held across the country? They did that because they knew it would be effective.

At the very least you know 45 will be paying attention to crowd size, one of his hallmark obsessions.

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othershoe1030 wrote:
Deus X wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
There will be women's marches across the country January 20th, including Pensacola.  

What do you--or they--expect that will accomplish?

Did the Women's marches after the inauguration make any real difference? They got news coverage for a couple days but I'm not sure they accomplished anything. What am I missing?

What you are missing is the effect the women's march had on women all over the world. Women started to find their public voice. It has spilled over into the avalanche of revelations re sexual harassment, pay inequity and general prejudice against women in the workplace. It served the purpose of helping to organize an entire movement, that's all.

Public demonstrations work. Politicians pay attention and respond appropriately News and attitudes change more quickly these days than they did back in the Nixon era. The thing is, if people are willing to show up at a street rally they are also likely to show up as volunteers for political campaigns to help get out the vote. (and to vote)

Remember the Tea Party movement? Remember Fox news "reporting" on the times and places that rallies would be held across the country? They did that because they knew it would be effective.

At the very least you know 45 will be paying attention to crowd size, one of his hallmark obsessions.

https://qz.com/1139150/womens-march-2018-when-and-where-it-starts-in-new-york-los-angeles-chicago-philadelphia-san-francisco-and-more/

The march will also focus on registering new voters.

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othershoe1030 wrote:
What you are missing is the effect the women's march had on women all over the world. Women started to find their public voice. It has spilled over into the avalanche of revelations re sexual harassment, pay inequity and general prejudice against women in the workplace. It served the purpose of helping to organize an entire movement, that's all.

Public demonstrations work. Politicians pay attention and respond appropriately News and attitudes change more quickly these days than they did back in the Nixon era. The thing is, if people are willing to show up at a street rally they are also likely to show up as volunteers for political campaigns to help get out the vote. (and to vote)

At the very least you know 45 will be paying attention to crowd size, one of his hallmark obsessions.

Women started to find their public voice...     It served the purpose of helping to organize an entire movement, that's all.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? The women's suffrage movement in the US started a century ago, well before the marches after the inauguration. Women's Lib in the 60s and 70s added impetus to that, that's when the National Organization for Women was founded, not in 2017.

The marches last January didn't organize anything, they merely capitalized on a century's worth of work that had already been done by serious, dedicated social justice activists. Silly-ass, permitted protest marches accomplish nothing except giving similarly inclined people a chance to feel like they're a part of something.

During the Civil Rights era it was sit-ins, fire hoses and dogs that finally changed public opinion, not polite, sign-carrying marches. If the women of Pensacola really wanted to accomplish something, they'd risk arrest or beatings, they'd lay down in the middle of Palafox and refuse to leave, not march obediently on the sidewalks, like good little girls.

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Can't hurt.

I'm not a big believer in protests really changing anything, but in this case it at least shows the other countries in the world that we're not all on board with this insane stupidity, and it'll keep a little good will toward America going. Eventually we're going to kick out the sKKKum that's infiltrated the government, and when we do, it'll make mending fences a lot easier if our allies saw this dirtbag got a lot of resistance. So, it's valuable for that.

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There's only one thing that republican legislators fear more than offending their campaign donors -- the grass roots voters turning against them. That's why large political marches are indeed effective! If a million women and men march for a political cause -- you will see congresspeople and senators leaping to be seen as approving of them. Reality.

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Deus X wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote:
What you are missing is the effect the women's march had on women all over the world. Women started to find their public voice. It has spilled over into the avalanche of revelations re sexual harassment, pay inequity and general prejudice against women in the workplace. It served the purpose of helping to organize an entire movement, that's all.

Public demonstrations work. Politicians pay attention and respond appropriately News and attitudes change more quickly these days than they did back in the Nixon era. The thing is, if people are willing to show up at a street rally they are also likely to show up as volunteers for political campaigns to help get out the vote. (and to vote)

At the very least you know 45 will be paying attention to crowd size, one of his hallmark obsessions.

Women started to find their public voice...     It served the purpose of helping to organize an entire movement, that's all.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? The women's suffrage movement in the US started a century ago, well before the marches after the inauguration. Women's Lib in the 60s and 70s added impetus to that, that's when the National Organization for Women was founded, not in 2017.

The marches last January didn't organize anything, they merely capitalized on a century's worth of work that had already been done by serious, dedicated social justice activists. Silly-ass, permitted protest marches accomplish nothing except giving similarly inclined people a chance to feel like they're a part of something.

During the Civil Rights era it was sit-ins, fire hoses and dogs that finally changed public opinion, not polite, sign-carrying marches. If the women of Pensacola really wanted to accomplish something, they'd risk arrest or beatings, they'd lay down in the middle of Palafox and refuse to leave, not march obediently on the sidewalks, like good little girls.

The snarkiness of your comments makes it difficult to not respond in kind but I will try to explain my statements in a respectful tone.

The point of the 21st century Women's Movement is indeed building on the successes of the past, the women's suffrage movement and then the so-called women's lib movement of the 60's.

This newly revived movement however, I would argue goes further still. It is not the same thing that was done in past women's movements rather it is the next step. To claim that basically this has (yawn) already been done is to exactly miss the point. It shows a lack of listening, a lack of comprehension.

Since time began with the exception of some matriarchal societies women have taken a second class citizenship to men in most every area. We have put up with being discounted intellectually, being underpaid for the same work, been overlooked for promotions, been harassed and intimidated  and so forth.

I am pointing out the merits and benefits of women showing unity in the streets. Seeing a sea of people, both men and women, coming together to say "Time's up" and basically we won't take it any more makes an impression. The voice of this, shall we say "refreshed/renewed" women's movement will be more transforming than previous campaigns for the vote or sexual freedom.

More women have been elected to public office and more are running for office than ever before. It was the women's vote that put Doug Jones in office in Alabama for example. Hopefully it will be women voting and in office that will reshape the direction this country has taken recently. I do not think it is necessary at this time in our history to be arrested or beaten in order to make a point. It is not the act of gathering and marching in and of itself that is of importance but rather the energy that such a demonstration of unity creates so that like minded people of all genders can get together, network, organize, register people to vote, run for and be elected to office and change the direction of the public sector. This is not a party for good little girls. It is a moment to inspire action and create change.

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It is the same MSNBC hysteria which makes things worse. Folks in Milwaukee needed to be registered and vote. That takes organization and hard work. Marching is easy. How are democrats registering white blue collar workers in Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Penn, and Iowa. I will listen when I see objective efforts to get people voting, and not a bunch of people marching about an idiot...you need to have an alternative which energizes people.

I know people who are in fact registering voters, but getting them to the polls on election day........show me how they are going to do that.......protests?

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2seaoat wrote:It is the same MSNBC hysteria which makes things worse.  Folks in Milwaukee needed to be registered and vote.  That takes organization and hard work.  Marching is easy.  How are democrats registering white blue collar workers in Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Penn, and Iowa.  I will listen when I see objective efforts to get people voting, and not a bunch of people marching about an idiot...you need to have an alternative which energizes people.

I know people who are in fact registering voters, but getting them to the polls on election day........show me how they are going to do that.......protests?

I share your concerns at the same time I'm rolling my eyes as I read this. All the down in the trenches work goes unnoticed. There will not likely be huge media coverage of voter registration drives and all the GOTV activity that will and does go on in any energized campaign.

Dammit, I'm sick of people putting down the marches when the results will be shown. As I'm sure you know this is not a point and click activity although computers and data bases help to maximize efforts to register people and to get them to the polls.

The protests and marches are giving psychological support to people who would otherwise feel alone. Now they know there are many who feel the need to change things. There will be speakers at these marches, names of volunteers are collected, people can find out how to register to vote or how to help others to do so. This is grassroots and heartfelt. I know it works because I worked many hours every day in the '08 campaign knocking on doors, registering voters, checking polling places, and getting out the vote. It will  work, it does work. Yes we can, yes we will.

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My daughter is working for a judicial candidate who is in the Republican primary. There is not even a democratic candidate. This is after Trump. If the elections were lost because of white blue collar folks voting for trump, I can say with absolute certainty that this is counterproductive with those voters.

More people joining Rachel in group think spending all their time talking about how dumb Trump is was the same hubris which lost the election. The former governor of PN kept saying.....you have to appeal to that white blue collar worker. However, if that person thinks this tax cut gave him more money in his paycheck, and the democrats are marching for something other than economic improvement......I am telling you this is the same damn mistake which forced me to cancel my Msnbc service along with Fox. My daughter has said it is worse than that......Coroner.....no one running. Treasurer.......no one running. Weak candidates for the house.....and the primary is less than eight weeks away. No while all those folks are marching, tell me who is running? I am not trying to diminish the role of protest, but if the car has a flat tire, going to the gas station and getting gas instead of a tire does not get the vehicle moving again.

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2seaoat wrote:My daughter is working for a judicial candidate who is in the Republican primary.  There is not even a democratic candidate.  This is after Trump.  If the elections were lost because of white blue collar folks voting for trump, I can say with absolute certainty that this is counterproductive with those voters.

More people joining Rachel in group think spending all their time talking about how dumb Trump is was the same hubris which lost the election.  The former governor of PN kept saying.....you have to appeal to that white blue collar worker.  However, if that person thinks this tax cut gave him more money in his paycheck, and the democrats are marching for something other than economic improvement......I am telling you this is the same damn mistake which forced me to cancel my Msnbc service along with Fox.  My daughter has said it is worse than that......Coroner.....no one running.   Treasurer.......no one running.  Weak candidates for the house.....and the primary is less than eight weeks away.  No while all those folks are marching, tell me who is running?  I am not trying to diminish the role of protest, but if the car has a flat tire, going to the gas station and getting gas instead of a tire does not get the vehicle moving again.

Here is a link to ballotpedia. It lists candidates for all levels of government (probably not very minor offices but still) by state, cities too. Of course there is no way of knowing which candidates are weak or strong but the sheer number of more Democrats running can't hurt.

https://ballotpedia.org/Main_Page

Time will tell if the small pay increase that's supposed to result from the tax bill will create enough enthusiasm in voters to want to vote for 45 again in the event he tries to run for re-election. Given the unreliable poll numbers running up the the 2016 election it is wise to take current ones with a grain of salt. That being said there is a steady downward trend in 45's approval rating, most people think he is a serial liar and unstable and unsuited for the position. The general picture of him is far from positive. His approval ratings are the lowest in the history of such polling of any first year president.

I think the marches and rallies help maintain the energy necessary to continue with the work of campaigning and all that goes with that. As awkward as it sounds it is possible to patch and air up the tire while filling the gas tank. For the sake of the country I hope we are capable of doing both well.

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Marches send messages. Sooner or later the message gets heard.

That's what marches and protests do.

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panhandler wrote:Marches send messages.   Sooner or later the message gets heard.

That's what marches and protests do.  

Alright, alright!    Bring back the mini-skirt and go-go boots and I'll go walk. Against Trump, for Trump, whatever   Laughing

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EmeraldGhost wrote:
panhandler wrote:Marches send messages.   Sooner or later the message gets heard.

That's what marches and protests do.  

Alright, alright!    Bring back the mini-skirt and go-go boots and I'll go walk. Against Trump, for Trump, whatever   Laughing


Many much out loud laughings!

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I opened my first ad agency in Los Angeles in 1967 and I remember marching with thousands of my fellow Americans in protest of the unnecessary, cruel war and costly war then taking place in Vietnam. One protest added to another, and the movement grew. It took a lot of time, and blood, and tears, and bandages, but in the end, it was our marching that brought Washington DC and our enemies who run the Pentagon and CIA to wave a white flag. We left Vietnam in 1975 -- after hundreds of national protests. Recovering from their awful loss, our government almost immediately removed the national draft, thereby instantly converting a genuine army of the American people, into an all-voluntary ersatz mercenary outfit -- which is now fighting and losing limbs and lives in 76 countries. And almost nobody cares enough to march about it.

For those of you way too young to remember those times, when your soul screams against a civic injustice that hurts you, your family and/or your neighbors, get off your collective asses!!

Doing nothing allows injustice to win, every time! I don't blame Hitler and his gang for the horrors he unleashed in WWII. I blame the German people who sat back and let the bastard take over in the thirties.

Reality.

Reality.

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Wordslinger wrote: I opened my first ad agency in Los Angeles in 1967 and I remember marching with thousands of my fellow Americans in protest of the unnecessary, cruel war and costly war then taking place in Vietnam. .... 

If you are any kind of student of history 'slinger', you will know that the 60's were relatively tame.

Wanna read about some real protesters?  
https://zinnedproject.org/materials/ludlow-massacre/



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2seaoat wrote:It is the same MSNBC hysteria which makes things worse.  Folks in Milwaukee needed to be registered and vote.  That takes organization and hard work.  Marching is easy.  How are democrats registering white blue collar workers in Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Penn, and Iowa.  I will listen when I see objective efforts to get people voting, and not a bunch of people marching about an idiot...you need to have an alternative which energizes people.

I know people who are in fact registering voters, but getting them to the polls on election day........show me how they are going to do that.......protests?

This shows a significant reaction to this administration. Looks as if the folks in this part of Wisconsin managed to get to the polls. Note the margin of Trump's win in this area. This was not a purple seat.

Democrats have just pulled off the first election upset of 2018. In northwestern Wisconsin’s Senate District 10, Democrat (and reality TV show Wife Swap alum) Patty Schachtner defeated Republican Adam Jarchow 55-45 percent to flip a seat the GOP has held since 2000. Tuesday’s shocking upset arguably puts the Wisconsin Senate majority in play this fall (which is now 18 Republicans to 14 Democrats, with one vacancy).

This supposedly safe Republican seat became open when GOP Sen. Sheila Harsdorf accepted an appointment to Scott Walker's cabinet late last year. Despite the fact that SD-10 went 55-38 for Trump in 2016 and 52-46 for Romney in 2012, Democrats were cautiously optimistic about their chances here. Wisconsin Democrats cited internal polling (from last year) showing the race was competitive, and progressive investments in this contest indicated that this hopefulness extended beyond the Democratic caucus. Greater Wisconsin spent $30,000 in support of Schachtner, and the National Democratic Redistricting Committee spent $10,000 on online advertising.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/1733363

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That would be encouraging except Wisconsin for sixty years was one of the most progressive states in America. The very thought that Democrats need to get so many seats to win in a State which had some of the most progressive policies in the nation is laughable. I remember the massive protests of walker in Madison which I swallowed hook line and sinker that those marches were turning the tide.....they had the exact opposite impact as Republicans gained more seats. No a grassroots electoral effort is a completely different animal, and these one or two seats are far from a tidal waive which is required to bring sanity back to this nation.

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2seaoat wrote:That would be encouraging except Wisconsin for sixty years was one of the most progressive states in America.  The very thought that Democrats need to get so many seats to win in a State which had some of the most progressive policies in the nation is laughable.  I remember the massive protests of walker in Madison which I swallowed hook line and sinker that those marches were turning the tide.....they had the exact opposite impact as Republicans gained more seats.  No a grassroots electoral effort is a completely different animal, and these one or two seats are far from a tidal waive which is required to bring sanity back to this nation.

Sorry you are so pessimistic. You're right about Wisconsin having been very progressive. I'm wondering how they drifted so badly into the red column? Of course there is not a tidal wave yet because obviously at this point there are not that many races going on. At least, given the voters approval of Trump in the last election, they did not stick with the R's this time around.

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2seaoat wrote:That would be encouraging except Wisconsin for sixty years was one of the most progressive states in America.  The very thought that Democrats need to get so many seats to win in a State which had some of the most progressive policies in the nation is laughable.  I remember the massive protests of walker in Madison which I swallowed hook line and sinker that those marches were turning the tide.....they had the exact opposite impact as Republicans gained more seats.  No a grassroots electoral effort is a completely different animal, and these one or two seats are far from a tidal waive which is required to bring sanity back to this nation.

You might want to take into consideration the massive amount of outside (ALEC) money that poured into Wisconsin when Walker was being challenged.

The Destruction of Progressive Wisconsin

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/17/opinion/campaign-stops/the-destruction-of-progressive-wisconsin.html?_r=0

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Wordslinger wrote:I opened my first ad agency in Los Angeles in 1967 and I remember marching with thousands of my fellow Americans in protest of the unnecessary, cruel war and costly war then taking place in Vietnam.  One protest added to another, and the movement grew.  It took a lot of time, and blood, and tears, and bandages, but in the end, it was our marching that brought Washington DC and our enemies who run the Pentagon and CIA to wave a white flag.  We left Vietnam in 1975 -- after hundreds of national protests.  Recovering from their awful loss, our government almost immediately removed the national draft, thereby instantly converting a genuine army of the American people, into an all-voluntary ersatz mercenary outfit -- which is now fighting and losing limbs and lives in 76 countries.  And almost nobody cares enough to march about it.

For those of you way too young to remember those times, when your soul screams against a civic injustice that hurts you, your family and/or your neighbors, get off your collective asses!!  

Doing nothing allows injustice to win, every time!  I don't blame Hitler and his gang for the horrors he unleashed in WWII.  I blame the German people who sat back and let the bastard take over in the thirties.

Reality.

Reality.

Good points all.  cheers

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