This is a forum based out of Pensacola Florida.


You are not connected. Please login or register

The defense budget is insane

View previous topic View next topic Go down  Message [Page 1 of 1]

1 The defense budget is insane on Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:59 am

They are budgeting for war in space. It is not enough that for the last 75 years we have exported war into third world chit holes where we poured our national treasury and blood into rabbit holes. They now want to increase military personnel by 20k and bust the deficit by 80 billion a year. We are owned by special interests and why do you think an Alabama rep wants to take war to space and create another branch of the services........more teat suckers for the State of Alabama and specifically the Huntsville area.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/house-passes-dollar692b-defense-policy-bill/ar-BBEY6gQ?li=BBnb7Kz

View user profile

2 Re: The defense budget is insane on Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:02 am

Now they want to get rid of the Mandate from the affordable care act which will leave 15 million without health insurance.   All the while they have increased the defense budget by 80 million a year, of which 20 million is going to used in overseas adventures........This is beyond insane.

Oh and the savings from getting rid of the mandate per year......33 billion. If we do not address defense spending, this country is doomed. There has been a coup and we are just fooling around pretending we still matter.

View user profile

3 Re: The defense budget is insane on Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:00 pm

The individual mandate is unconstitutional... I don't give a damn what Roberts rationalized.

View user profile

4 Re: The defense budget is insane on Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:42 pm

It is a tax. If you withdraw from a retirement qualified plan, you pay a ten percent tax before you are 59.5. I did not get the decision right by accident, just read the constitution and read the powers of congress. This was never rocket science, and coming to Pensacola to find one goofy judge who was going to argue the interstate commerce clause......you have to find a special place to be that stupid.



View user profile

5 Re: The defense budget is insane on Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:31 pm

Obama called it a penalty... a lie (among others) to sell it to the public. Roberts deemed it a tax.

Just another means to an end... eh comrade?

View user profile

6 Re: The defense budget is insane on Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:13 pm

PkrBum wrote:Obama called it a penalty... a lie (among others) to sell it to the public. Roberts deemed it a tax.

Just another means to an end... eh comrade?

Your whiny little avatar is a perfect depiction of your personality. You do understand the difference between a law that's designed to help people and one that costs lives and treasure, right?

View user profile

7 Re: The defense budget is insane on Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:57 pm

Floridatexan wrote:
PkrBum wrote:Obama called it a penalty... a lie (among others) to sell it to the public. Roberts deemed it a tax.

Just another means to an end... eh comrade?

Your whiny little avatar is a perfect depiction of your personality.  You do understand the difference between a law that's designed to help people and one that costs lives and treasure, right?  

The real question is: Do you understand the difference between a mandate and choice in a free society?

Someday we'll be a socialist/communist State... and it'll directly be leftist groupthink to blame.

Early congratulations comrade.

View user profile

8 Re: The defense budget is insane on Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:03 pm

PkrBum wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
PkrBum wrote:Obama called it a penalty... a lie (among others) to sell it to the public. Roberts deemed it a tax.

Just another means to an end... eh comrade?

Your whiny little avatar is a perfect depiction of your personality.  You do understand the difference between a law that's designed to help people and one that costs lives and treasure, right?  

The real question is: Do you understand the difference between a mandate and choice in a free society?

Someday we'll be a socialist/communist State... and it'll directly be leftist groupthink to blame.

Early congratulations comrade.

http://www.favreau.info/misc/14-points-fascism.php

The 14 points of Fascism


Powerful and Continuing Nationalism

Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights

Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause

The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

Supremacy of the Military

Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

Rampant Sexism

The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

Controlled Mass Media

Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

Obsession with National Security

Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

Religion and Government are Intertwined

Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

Corporate Power is Protected

The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

Labor Power is Suppressed

Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts

Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

Obsession with Crime and Punishment

Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

Rampant Cronyism and Corruption

Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

Fraudulent Elections

Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.


View user profile

9 Re: The defense budget is insane on Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:12 pm

Obamacaid is easily the largest fascist program/policy foisted upon we the people in our history.

See: results... false promises... collusion with enormous corps... mandates... redistribution... etc.

Again... congratulations. You must be so proud to subjugate our future generations.

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.html

As an economic system, fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer. The word derives from fasces, the Roman symbol of collectivism and power: a tied bundle of rods with a protruding ax. In its day (the 1920s and 1930s), fascism was seen as the happy medium between boom-and-bust-prone liberal capitalism, with its alleged class conflict, wasteful competition, and profit-oriented egoism, and revolutionary Marxism, with its violent and socially divisive persecution of the bourgeoisie. Fascism substituted the particularity of nationalism and racialism—“blood and soil”—for the internationalism of both classical liberalism and Marxism.

Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. Where socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the autocratic authority conceived it. (Nevertheless, a few industries were operated by the state.) Where socialism abolished all market relations outright, fascism left the appearance of market relations while planning all economic activities. Where socialism abolished money and prices, fascism controlled the monetary system and set all prices and wages politically. In doing all this, fascism denatured the marketplace. Entrepreneurship was abolished. State ministries, rather than consumers, determined what was produced and under what conditions.

Fascism is to be distinguished from interventionism, or the mixed economy. Interventionism seeks to guide the market process, not eliminate it, as fascism did. Minimum-wage and antitrust laws, though they regulate the free market, are a far cry from multiyear plans from the Ministry of Economics.

Under fascism, the state, through official cartels, controlled all aspects of manufacturing, commerce, finance, and agriculture. Planning boards set product lines, production levels, prices, wages, working conditions, and the size of firms. Licensing was ubiquitous; no economic activity could be undertaken without government permission. Levels of consumption were dictated by the state, and “excess” incomes had to be surrendered as taxes or “loans.” The consequent burdening of manufacturers gave advantages to foreign firms wishing to export. But since government policy aimed at autarky, or national self-sufficiency, protectionism was necessary: imports were barred or strictly controlled, leaving foreign conquest as the only avenue for access to resources unavailable domestically. Fascism was thus incompatible with peace and the international division of labor—hallmarks of liberalism.

Fascism embodied corporatism, in which political representation was based on trade and industry rather than on geography. In this, fascism revealed its roots in syndicalism, a form of socialism originating on the left. The government cartelized firms of the same industry, with representatives of labor and management serving on myriad local, regional, and national boards—subject always to the final authority of the dictator’s economic plan. Corporatism was intended to avert unsettling divisions within the nation, such as lockouts and union strikes. The price of such forced “harmony” was the loss of the ability to bargain and move about freely.

To maintain high employment and minimize popular discontent, fascist governments also undertook massive public-works projects financed by steep taxes, borrowing, and fiat money creation. While many of these projects were domestic—roads, buildings, stadiums—the largest project of all was militarism, with huge armies and arms production.

The fascist leaders’ antagonism to communism has been misinterpreted as an affinity for capitalism. In fact, fascists’ anticommunism was motivated by a belief that in the collectivist milieu of early-twentieth-century Europe, communism was its closest rival for people’s allegiance. As with communism, under fascism, every citizen was regarded as an employee and tenant of the totalitarian, party-dominated state. Consequently, it was the state’s prerogative to use force, or the threat of it, to suppress even peaceful opposition.

If a formal architect of fascism can be identified, it is Benito Mussolini, the onetime Marxist editor who, caught up in nationalist fervor, broke with the left as World War I approached and became Italy’s leader in 1922. Mussolini distinguished fascism from liberal capitalism in his 1928 autobiography:

The citizen in the Fascist State is no longer a selfish individual who has the anti-social right of rebelling against any law of the Collectivity. The Fascist State with its corporative conception puts men and their possibilities into productive work and interprets for them the duties they have to fulfill. (p. 280)

Before his foray into imperialism in 1935, Mussolini was often praised by prominent Americans and Britons, including Winston Churchill, for his economic program.

Similarly, Adolf Hitler, whose National Socialist (Nazi) Party adapted fascism to Germany beginning in 1933, said:

The state should retain supervision and each property owner should consider himself appointed by the state. It is his duty not to use his property against the interests of others among his own people. This is the crucial matter. The Third Reich will always retain its right to control the owners of property. (Barkai 1990, pp. 26–27)

Both nations exhibited elaborate planning schemes for their economies in order to carry out the state’s objectives. Mussolini’s corporate state “consider[ed] private initiative in production the most effective instrument to protect national interests” (Basch 1937, p. 97). But the meaning of “initiative” differed significantly from its meaning in a market economy. Labor and management were organized into twenty-two industry and trade “corporations,” each with Fascist Party members as senior participants. The corporations were consolidated into a National Council of Corporations; however, the real decisions were made by state agencies such as the Instituto per la Ricosstruzione Industriale, which held shares in industrial, agricultural, and real estate enterprises, and the Instituto Mobiliare, which controlled the nation’s credit.

Hitler’s regime eliminated small corporations and made membership in cartels mandatory.1 The Reich Economic Chamber was at the top of a complicated bureaucracy comprising nearly two hundred organizations organized along industry, commercial, and craft lines, as well as several national councils. The Labor Front, an extension of the Nazi Party, directed all labor matters, including wages and assignment of workers to particular jobs. Labor conscription was inaugurated in 1938. Two years earlier, Hitler had imposed a four-year plan to shift the nation’s economy to a war footing. In Europe during this era, Spain, Portugal, and Greece also instituted fascist economies.

In the United States, beginning in 1933, the constellation of government interventions known as the New Deal had features suggestive of the corporate state. The National Industrial Recovery Act created code authorities and codes of practice that governed all aspects of manufacturing and commerce. The National Labor Relations Act made the federal government the final arbiter in labor issues. The Agricultural Adjustment Act introduced central planning to farming. The object was to reduce competition and output in order to keep prices and incomes of particular groups from falling during the Great Depression.

It is a matter of controversy whether President Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal was directly influenced by fascist economic policies. Mussolini praised the New Deal as “boldly . . . interventionist in the field of economics,” and Roosevelt complimented Mussolini for his “honest purpose of restoring Italy” and acknowledged that he kept “in fairly close touch with that admirable Italian gentleman.” Also, Hugh Johnson, head of the National Recovery Administration, was known to carry a copy of Raffaello Viglione’s pro-Mussolini book, The Corporate State, with him, presented a copy to Labor Secretary Frances Perkins, and, on retirement, paid tribute to the Italian dictator.

View user profile

10 Re: The defense budget is insane on Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:47 pm


You can throw that libertarian economic theory tripe out with the rest of the garbage.

View user profile

11 Re: The defense budget is insane on Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:54 pm

Floridatexan wrote:
You can throw that libertarian economic theory tripe out with the rest of the garbage.  

This from someone that unwittingly promotes socialist/fascist economic theories. Proven failures.

View user profile

12 Re: The defense budget is insane on Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:25 am

Obamacaid is easily the largest fascist program/policy foisted upon we the people in our history.

So the government taxing folks who do not carry their weight by purchasing health insurance is fascism. If you had a chance to take political nomenclature class to understand political concepts which you consistently get wrong, perhaps we would not run down the same dead end arguments, over and over again.

View user profile

13 Re: The defense budget is insane on Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:33 am

2seaoat wrote:Obamacaid is easily the largest fascist program/policy foisted upon we the people in our history.

So the government taxing folks who do not carry their weight by purchasing health insurance is fascism.   If you had a chance to take political nomenclature class to understand political concepts which you consistently get wrong, perhaps we would not run down the same dead end arguments, over and over again.

Look at it on it's face. It's the authoritarian central govt forcing citizens to purchase a product from enormous private corporations that helped create the law. That's collusion at its best... clear economic fascism.

View user profile

14 Re: The defense budget is insane on Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:44 am

Look at it on it's face. It's the authoritarian central govt forcing citizens to purchase a product from enormous private corporations that helped create the law. That's collusion at its best... clear economic fascism.


Our constitution gives the power to Congress to pass taxes and work for the general welfare of the citizens of this country. That is what government does. They build sewer plants, waterworks, roads, and schools, and they implement tax policy which work to those ends. This child like all government is bad and the absence of government is utopia, is too simplistic to address. The conservative Heritage Foundation developed the radical idea that deadbeats should pay their own medical costs by paying the premiums of health insurance policies. If a person chooses to freely not get health insurance they are taxed. I got taxed ten percent on early withdrawal of my retirement funds and nobody called the same fascism. If somebody did the same in a social setting people would just roll their eyes. Words and concepts do have meanings which are despite the feeble attempts to clutter the truth self evident.

View user profile

15 Re: The defense budget is insane on Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:07 pm

I've never argued that govt isn't necessary... not once... ever. It's the role and scope.

Obamacaid overstepped... on multiple levels. The lies to the public alone was a breach of trust.

Of course that requires a citizen aware of... or that cares... the govt deceiving to promote an agenda.

I bet you'd go nuts if trump lied to promote his agenda... oh wait... lol. This is just another means/ends thing really. You'd excuse anything as long as it's your subjective agenda promoted. Sad really.

Btw... General welfare doesn't mean what you think it means contemporary to the constitution.

View user profile

16 Re: The defense budget is insane on Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:46 am

I bet you'd go nuts if trump lied to promote his agenda..

He is unable to distinguish truth from lies. President Obama honestly believed almost all of what he ever said. big difference.


With me it was simple. eliminating preexesting concitions was all I needed and if some of the five percent who actually had higher premiums........the other 95 percent made it the truth despite those handful of people.

It sure seems you and the American public are on two separate pages.

View user profile

17 Re: The defense budget is insane on Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:05 am

PkrBum wrote:I've never argued that govt isn't necessary... not once... ever. It's the role and scope.

Obamacaid overstepped... on multiple levels. The lies to the public alone was a breach of trust.

Of course that requires a citizen aware of... or that cares... the govt deceiving to promote an agenda.

I bet you'd go nuts if trump lied to promote his agenda... oh wait... lol. This is just another means/ends thing really. You'd excuse anything as long as it's your subjective agenda promoted. Sad really.

Btw... General welfare doesn't mean what you think it means contemporary to the constitution.

I don't know why you keep pushing lies? The insurance companies changed the agenda...not Obama.

View user profile

18 Re: The defense budget is insane on Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:15 pm

None of these arguments are relevant anymore. Obamacare's premiums continued to rise and the republicans did everything they could to throw a monkey-wrench into the gearing.

It could be saved, of course, but it's costs would continue to rise -- since the entire system is based on insurer's making profits.

Medicare for all is the way to go, and there's no doubt that single-payer will eventually replace our failing healthcare approaches. There is no benefit to the masses for insurers to interfere in the administration of healthcare.

Yaaaay Single Payer .. Yaaay Bernie Sanders!!

View user profile

19 Re: The defense budget is insane on Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:13 am

Ya... cause the va is the gold standard. And it'll be Medicaid for everyone... be realistic.

View user profile

Sponsored content


View previous topic View next topic Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 1]

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum