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Two hours from the first shot to a swat team blowing the door

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My understanding is that the first shots were fired at 10:08pm.

By 10:15pm, a Las Vegas police officer had pinpointed the location of the shooter.

At 10:24pm, officers approached the room, were fired upon, retreated and called in the SWAT team.

Now, this is where it gets tricky, because the SWAT team took something over 50 minutes to assemble and prepare to breach the room.

It may be that the shooter had stopped firing at this point because he was already dead, so the SWAT team had no reason not to be cautious and take their time.

This scenario corresponds with eyewitness accounts that the gunfire lasted 15-20 minutes.

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So within about 20 minutes the shooter was shooting at the swat team in the hallway instead of the crowd below.
I have to say that considering that the shooter was on a high-level floor and so far away from the country music venue, I don't think that is unreasonable.
Like I said, if it came to offering assistance to one of my family that might save their life and storming a building, I'd rather the officer be saving my loved one. I think most people would think that way.

It might be selfish, but it's true.

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Imagine having to head into that situation. It must be awful.

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gatorfan wrote:
Isn't it about time for you to post another tear jerk sympathy post about your condition?

Poser.

Jesus, dude, you are an asshole.

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zsomething wrote:
gatorfan wrote:
Isn't it about time for you to post another tear jerk sympathy post about your condition?

Poser.

Jesus, dude, you are an asshole.  


Actually I'm not but when some uninformed poser like 2SO calls me a liar he'd better get ready to handle the fallout from that unnecessary foolishness.

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gatorfan wrote:
zsomething wrote:
gatorfan wrote:
Isn't it about time for you to post another tear jerk sympathy post about your condition?

Poser.

Jesus, dude, you are an asshole.  


Actually I'm not but when some uninformed poser like 2SO calls me a liar he'd better get ready to handle the fallout from that unnecessary foolishness.

No, trust me -- if anything can get you to say something like you just said, you absolutely are. There's no excuse for that shit. NONE.

Get lost.

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Actually I'm not but when some uninformed poser like 2SO calls me a liar he'd better get ready to handle the fallout from that unnecessary foolishness.


Liar Unless you were working for your family or in agriculture you would not have had medicare or social security from payroll at a golf course. I started working at 13 shagging golf balls and worked as a caddie, but could not be put on the payroll until I was fifteen and had secured a 15 year old work permit. Each state has individual labor laws, but in the 60s there were strict restrictions to employment at the national level. Simple solution. Scan your social security annual statement and redact it.....you will not because you are not telling the truth. You were not paying into ss or medicare at 14.

In regard to the timeline. From the first shots until the door was breached and the gunman was found dead it was reported as two hours. That response is entirely unacceptable, and just like Colombine the truth of the response will not be released for at least a year as every politician is falling over themselves to give false praise where critical questions are NOT being asked by news readers. Where have the journalist gone?.

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Isn't it about time for you to post another tear jerk sympathy post about your condition?

Poser.


At least that is truthful. My life journey has been shared, and I am glad you have been crying for me to get better, and I am sorry I still speak the truth as you hide behind that tough guy persona and tear up for me. That is sweet. You make me smile. I know why you use that word Poser. It seems to bring emotion to you as just maybe you have heard it before. There is nothing I have said on these forums which I have not said in public about training and improvements in the criminal justice system. You just cannot handle the truth. I can. I love this post best of all because it was honest. Something we rarely get from you with all the smoke and mirrors of illusions.

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The timeline I provided comes from law enforcement scanners.

The attack lasted 20 minutes at the most.

By the time the SWAT team arrived, the shooting had stopped, and the shooter was most likely dead.

I'm not one who lionizes law enforcement, but your criticism is wildly speculative and misplaced.

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I am simply reporting what was reported as a two hour time period from the first shot which you have correct at 10:08 until around midnight when the door was breached.  The fire chief admitted on National TV that they had NEVER trained for a high rise shooter.  The Hospital administrator said they trained twice a year and their last training involved the training model of a concert being attacked by a terrorist.  The Hospitals had entire staffs in place within a half hour and performed seamlessly taking victims from citizen transport.

I stayed in the old MGM before the horrific fire that nobody thought could happen in Vegas.  The hotel owners fought sprinklers, but after the tragedy they installed sprinklers, but the question remains.....why are we spending billions on layer after layer of security in this country when there is not enough smarts in the criminal justice system to plan and train for a shooter in an elevated position.  Why is there not a requirement of a robotic room breach mechanism which is transportable in the elevators and is an immediate method to breach the door and get video, and if necessary use offense methodologies from the robotics.  Two hours before that door was breached and ten minutes would have been too long as a monkey drinking vodka for a week could have seen the broken windows and dispatched a room breach, but if we have this enormous criminal justice bureaucracy, we simply have the militarization and slave militias taking first priority.   This tragedy could have been minimized.  Period.

Just like putting sprinklers in, the hotels would have responsibility to create breach systems, maintain them, and train their personnel. Swat could have done a better job manning stretchers because the plan sucked.

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This guy had a plan and executed it.

Once he was allowed unmolested to carry suitcase after suitcase of high-powered killing machines and ammo to his sniper's nest high above a penned in crowd of 22,000 with no place to seek cover, there was next to nothing law enforcement could do to mitigate the carnage.

Robots?

C,mon, man ...

... again, the attack lasted 20 minutes tops ...

... how long do you think it would take to get a robot on site and deployed?

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You completely missed my point. The robotic breach system would be located in each hotel, just like the current central fire suppression, sprinkler and smoke detection systems. They would take a door down and enter any room without human intervention. When I worked with Borg Warner in the early eighties we had designed robotic material handling systems using optics with exact locations which allowed tons of material to be moved, exchanged and loaded without human intervention. It would simply be as soon as the window alarms went off releasing the mobile breach system which would not need any human intervention once room xxx was entered. The door would be off in less than five minutes.

I am simply appalled. I went to a John Mayer concert at the Mandalay Bay, and a saw Michael Franti there and they had strict crowd control and metal detectors in their auditorium which is on the backside of the hotel and strip. All through the lobby you see people wheeling golf clubs and bags through the hotel and casino, I find it too be a bridge too far to turn this nation into a line at every place in America to try to find hidden guns. The first time I went to Vegas, this pussy in our group had a gun in his suitcase. We were appalled that he was that scared, but people are going to have guns on their person for protection as they carry large amounts of money.

No, there is no reason that any room in any hotel over so many rooms have a room breach system. It may be as simple as electronic with bypass of the deadbolt and lock, or physical removal of the door, but waiting for swat is as fallow an argument as not sprinkling Vegas hotels. No plan. No training. No vision. My worse fears are that this is exactly what is going to happen to our military when somebody other than third world peasants fight us in a war.

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Sheeesh... take a break dorkapotamus.

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There are a lot of things that can be thought of after an event like this one happens, like some kind of door breach apparatus But no one can be expected to consider everything in advance. I don't think of it as the fault of the police or the fault of the hotel. I can understand how in a town like Las Vegas where there are numerous golf courses, guns could be easily smuggled into a hotel room using nothing but a golf bag. I don't want people frisking me or looking inside my bags every time I check into a hotel either. I'm also very careful to lock my dead bolt and I would have felt very safe in the room that the shooter used, knowing that the door locks were safe from easy entry from the outside.
I hate to say it seaoat, because you are usually such a reasonable guy, but I think you're a little overboard on this one.
The cops were at the door within 20 minutes and the gunfire out the window ended. Technically, the cops stopped the shooter from harming any civilians within 20 minutes. He may have been dead within a minute of when the cops arrived. They didn't find the body until they could open the door, that's all. I hope you can chill out, because I doubt you are doing your BP any good at all by keeping the argument up.

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I hate to say it seaoat, because you are usually such a reasonable guy, but I think you're a little overboard on this one.

Hardly The Israelis do not keep their citizens secure by creating a bloated criminal justice system. They use intelligence, limited resources, and constant vigilance with evolving training protocols to defend their citizens. When the fire chief on national TV admits they never had a plan for a shooter from a high rise hotel, it is the beginning and end of the idea that all the money we are spending on law enforcement which fills our jails with non violent folks who smoked some weed in Jay, but a sniper on top of the Studdard building can shoot people at will at a wahoo game because we have NO confidence that LEO is capable of proactively protecting American citizens. There are 100k rooms in vegas and waiting an hour plus for swat is not a plan, it is not anything but a flim flam huckster sales job that the last 40 years has seen huge increases in our police and fire simply has to stop......we need common sense discussions, but when these discussions happen you are considered overboard. Well when I speak about this locally when absurd decisions are being made to expand police budgets, I am seen as anti police, but I consider the investment in a ball player and the investment in a security asset to be very similar, and if you want to invest in a 200 hitter under the illusion that he will do better than a 330 hitter somebody has to stand up at public meetings and tell the truth. This is going on all over America.....give me more.....give me more.....and after the bodies are being carried out of a venue.....we see that characteristic circle jerk of thirty or forty leo standing around with squads after the fact. We can and must do better.

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Seaoat, I don't want to live in Israel with the fear the people there have. I know they have a lot more security than we do, and better security at that. But when I say I don't want people looking in my personal baggage when I enter a hotel, I'm serious.
Americans are not used to that kind of thing and will rebel against it. Our country is not in the kind of danger that Israel is from its neighbors (no matter what kind of fear the Donald is trying to spread about Mexicans.) We have sporadic terrorist attacks, and we have mass shootings which aren't called terrorist attacks because it's Americans who are doing them.
But I don't want security from the police enough that I'm willing to give up the freedoms we have. People in Israel have done that. The likelihood of an American being killed by a terrorist or a mass shooting is still less than that they will be struck by a lightning bolt. As long as that's true, I don't want to be searched when I enter a music concert or when I walk into a Walmart. I honestly believe that a whole lot of cops need firing because of their racist attitudes, I'm not a fan of the bullying I see on TV by policemen towards civilians, and I'm willing to stand up in public and say it. BUT this situation was a difficult one and I think they did the very best they could. If they hadn't shown up outside the guys room within 20 minutes, his shooting would have gone on much longer.

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Seagoat is afraid. Hopefully he can get a good nights sleep and be ok tomorrow.

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Seagoat is afraid. Hopefully he can get a good nights sleep and be ok tomorrow.

I agree. I am more afraid for America than I have ever been. After watching utter incompetence by the criminal justice system in Nevada, followed by President Trump telling us what a good job he is doing helping victims in Puerto Rico as people are not being evacuated it has become dream like.

I am watching the Las Vegas sheriff's press conference there is not even any information being given in detail about the weapons other that there was a bump stock. As usual the gun information will be months before we get the detail, long after this story has gone cold. We are told by the patronage worker who pretends to be the press secretary that now is not the time to talk about guns, but by the way did you know people died in Chicago.....

My biggest fear is that the bumbler is going to instigate a military conflict where the American people are going to find out like in this event that our troops and nation are at risk.

The Sheriff just admitted he could never imagined this event happening. An admission on National TV that Clark County with 100k hotel rooms with most being elevated had NO plan or even imagined this could happen. He admitted that the Mandalay Bay staff did not inform his deputies which room until swat got there. He then did a commercial for the hotel and people should stay there. Finally he patted himself on the back and said his actions saved hundreds. It is contagious. When you are doing a bad job, give yourself a pat on the back.

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http://nypost.com/2017/10/03/las-vegas-gunman-filmed-himself-during-slaughter/

Las Vegas madman Stephen Paddock set up a camera inside his hotel room to capture his deadly shooting rampage — and other surveillance in the hallway to alert him as cops closed in on him, according to reports.

The shooter had at least one lens set up to tape himself as he unleashed hell on thousands of unsuspecting concertgoers several hundred yards below his ritzy casino suite, according to ABC News.

Apparently knowing cops would eventually catch up to him, he also wired cameras in the hallway outside his room so he could see when the heat was getting close, the Daily Mail reported.

Paddock killed 59 people and injured more than 500 in the worst mass shooting in US history.

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The sheriff told the press that he had cameras inside and outside the room. The most striking thing was that hotel security who had window alarms ringing did not give the room location to deputies who initially arrived and focused on a four floor area. The hotel security guy was probably picked up on the hallway camera, but again, the sheriff said this guy was alone and not with the deputies. Each disclosure made in real time shows utter chaos in the response.

There was a Clark County Commissioner who was discussing a victim fund in the middle of the Sheriff's press conference. It was an ad for Wayne Newton and the MGM as they separated their donations from the three million dollars from individuals to help the victims. The praise for Mandalay Bay was like his job depended on it.

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People were stealing trucks and making two trips to the hospital with 30 people transported before ambulances arrived........so I am the crazy one?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/veteran-steals-truck-drives-30-to-vegas-hospital/ar-AAsRnxw?li=BBnb7Kz

Thank God for citizen heroes.

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https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/02/us/mandalay-bay-vegas-shooting.html

[The account below is based primarily on recordings of police communications, captured by Broadcastify.com and some individuals.]

At 10:08 p.m., an officer on the scene sounds the alarm. “We got shots fired,” he says. “Sounds like an automatic firearm.”

There is confusion over the next few minutes as officers arrive to scenes of death and mayhem.

“It’s coming from upstairs in the Mandalay Bay. Upstairs in the Mandalay Bay, halfway up I see the shots coming from Mandalay Bay, halfway up.”

“We have an active shooter — we have an active shooter inside the fairgrounds!”

At 10:12 p.m., the scale of the attack becomes more clear as an officer, using law-enforcement shorthand for gunshot wounds, reports in an agitated voice: “We have multiple casualties. G.S.W.’s in the medical tent. Multiple casualties!”

But the confusion over the source of the gunshots continues:

“Shots are coming from Gate 7.”

“We’re in front of Mandalay Bay. We’re trying to see where the shots are coming from. If anyone can advise if they’re coming from Mandalay”

“It sounds like it’s either Mandalay or Luxor, we cannot tell."

At 10:13 p.m., the manhunt begins to focus.

“It’s coming from like the 50th or 60th floor, north of the Mandalay Bay! It's coming out a window.”

“We’re seeing local flashes in the middle of Mandalay Bay on the north side, kind of on the west tower but towards the center of the casino, like one of the middle floors.”

The gunman had smashed two windows that have a broad view of the festival ground, the sheriff said later at a news conference.

Even with pandemonium on the streets, one officer has clearly identified where the shooting is coming from:

“I'm inside the Mandalay Bay on the 31st floor, I can hear the automatic fire coming from one floor ahead, one floor above us.”

“Repeating, just be advised it is automatic fire. Fully automatic fire from an elevated position. Take cover.”

“That is correct, it’s fully automatic fire. I'm right below it.”

Outside, frustration grows.

“We’re taking gunfire. It’s going right over our heads. There’s debris coming over our heads. We're pinned down here with a bunch of civilians.”

"We can't worry about victims, we need to snuff the shooter before we have more victims! Anybody have eyes on him, on this shooter?"

“Hey officers, please stay calm, just relax, we’re trying to get this set up.”

By 10:20 p.m., there are some indications the shooting has stopped, although it is not clear.

“It's been awhile since we've heard any shots. Does anybody have eyes on the shooter?”

A later transmission indicates that the shooting may have ended about 10:25.

At 10:24 p.m., officers report from the stairwell just outside the gunman’s door.

“I’m on the 32nd floor. The room is going to be 135.”

“It’s room 135 on the 32nd floor. I need the SWAT.”

At 10:28 p.m., as SWAT teams gather on the 32nd floor and the 29th floor, where there have been erroneous reports of another gunman, an officer says that a hotel security officer has been shot.

Over the next 50 minutes, officers secure the floor and ready several SWAT teams.

At about 11:20 p.m., they explode a door-breaching device, and enter to find the suspect dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. The man, who was later identified as Stephen Paddock, 64, had an arsenal of firearms in the room, officials said.

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Here's the cliff notes to keep your next word vomit below 1000 words.

At 10:08 p.m., an officer on the scene sounds the alarm. “We got shots fired,” he says. “Sounds like an automatic firearm.”

At 10:13 p.m., the manhunt begins to focus.

By 10:20 p.m., there are some indications the shooting has stopped, although it is not clear.

A later transmission indicates that the shooting may have ended about 10:25.

At 10:24 p.m., officers report from the stairwell just outside the gunman’s door.

At 10:28 p.m., as SWAT teams gather on the 32nd floor and the 29th floor, where there have been erroneous reports of another gunman, an officer says that a hotel security officer has been shot.

Over the next 50 minutes, officers secure the floor and ready several SWAT teams.

At about 11:20 p.m., they explode a door-breaching device, and enter to find the suspect dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. The man, who was later identified as Stephen Paddock, 64, had an arsenal of firearms in the room, officials said.

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I have a feeling that the guy was suicidal and wanted to go out with his name remembered. He probably hoped the camera inside the room would record his last minutes and he'd be all over utube and CNN, and then never forgotten. He sent money to his girlfriend in the Philippines , so she could live there in comfort from now on. I wonder if she knew he planned this thing?
No one ever really knows the motive of someone who is suicidal. It could be his gambling didn't go as well as he pretended it was and he'd lost a lot at the tables, or just a suicidal depression that hits the mentally unstable.

Suicide by cop is more prevalent than people think. He may have thought if he could not do it himself, the police would do it for him.

All just a theory, of course, but I think it makes sense.

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Stephen Paddock's potential targets included the most recent Lollapalooza festival in Chicago, which was held Aug. 3 to Aug. 6 in Grant Park, the officials said. Paddock, 64, went as far as booking a room in a Chicago hotel but did not show up, the officials said. Among the thousands of people who attended the festival was Malia Obama, daughter of former President Barack Obama.

Exactly the spot I spoke about on Michigan Ave across the street from buildings which have windows which open.  I was on Michigan Ave on Aug. 6th. and the streets were absolutely packed and the streets were in full gridlock.  It would have been ten fold the carnage of Vegas.  It would have been thousands, but having said that.....Chicago police have monitored those buildings since the pope visited, and I think the reason that the police could not even imagine or train for an elevated shooter was the nature of sealed windows in all hotels in Vegas......The shooter chose Vegas because it was such a soft target.  You open a window on Michigan Ave and there is a high probability that there will be an immediate response, but CPD does not discuss their security measures on these concerts, but in the late 70s this was openly discussed.

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