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Two hours from the first shot to a swat team blowing the door

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I am sick and tired of immediately after a tragedy or hurricane hearing about what a great job fema or first responders are doing. It is like this obligatory fantasy which automatically spouts out of brainless people. The so called press secretary...you know the patronage worker....immediately praised the first respoders. Here is the truth. Most of the people transported to hospitals were done so by private citizens. Most of the people who were hurt were helped by fellow citizens. With windows broken and gun flashes locating exactly where the shooter was, it took two hours to take that person out. This was a massive failing of first responders. The general rule is EMT's do not go to a call until the area is secure. So some of the delay can be blamed on the slow response by the police to take out the shooter, but if a shooter from a hotel was not even in swat training, and a two hour delay is considered a great job, you can bet every terrorist is getting their room reservations. People died because of a failure in response. Stop the bull chit.

The propaganda machine for the police state and military continues to churn out false praise and then argue we need more Police. Andy and Barney should have taken this person out in less than a half hour. Reality.

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I have stayed at Mandalay Bay repeated times. As soon as the window broke they had alarms and knew where this shooter was, yet hotel security, nor the police took out this shooter until two hours later. I am appalled with the fantasy being sold on TV. The photos after the shooting show literally hundreds of leo standing around. It has become the norm. After every tragedy, you get to see what taxpayers are paying for.......inept overpopulated police standing around after a tragedy. If two competent law enforcement agents responded correctly hundreds could have been spared injury and death. Yet, nobody is talking about the truth. The hotel and police had no plan and a terrible response.

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All the people with first hand accounts are talking about fellow citizens helping them. People loading people into private vehicles. People are being polite, but they are very critical of the ambulances not coming. The police not taking out the shooter, yet we continue to pour precious resources into a huge military and a huge police state, but the strength of America has always been the common sense of its Citizens, yet we have to listen total bull chit from the patronage worker pretending to be a press secretary telling us what a great job the first responders did......how about some truth.....just for once....the simple truth.....they were part of the problem......their collective delays caused people to die......bigger and bloated does not mean better. When can this country have honest discussions about issues without propaganda artists telling us that this is not the time to talk about issues, or simply giving false praise where critical analysis is needed to do a better job in the future. Evil is identified.

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The Israelis plan for almost any contingency concerning terrorist acts. They plan and train over a wide range of contingencies. I want one question answered, and being that the networks have become nothing more than mouth pieces for the propaganda machines, I do not expect them to raise the same, but did swat identify hotel shooters, and what was their plan? How did they train, and how did they work with hotel security to respond? The truth is that we pay trillions for security, and what we get is a group of leo standing around in the street after a tragedy getting their photos taken while propagandist talk about what a great job the first responders did. If a person truly has compassion for victims, they should be working to stop the next massacre by asking real questions and saying enough to the Emperor's new clothes......he had nothing on.......

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We have some on this forum who criticize what they think is armchair QBs whenever incompetent government is analyzed. Those people have sucked on the government teat, and rationalize the absurdity of government's repeated mistakes. Two hours to respond when Mandalay bay rooms are not masonry walls but drywall. Bullets can travel through drywall easily. A hotel security guard was shot through the wall, yet two hours passed before the door was breached. Sorry the biggest massacre in US History happened with LEO standing around incompetently for two full hours before they took out the shooter. If people do not talk about this and are not critical when the truth requires the same, who will stop the next shooter?

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2seaoat wrote:We have some on this forum who criticize what they think is armchair QBs whenever incompetent government is analyzed.  Those people have sucked on the government teat, and rationalize the absurdity of government's repeated mistakes.  Two hours to respond when Mandalay bay rooms are not masonry walls but drywall.  Bullets can travel through drywall easily.  A hotel security guard was shot through the wall, yet two hours passed before the door was breached.  Sorry the biggest massacre in US History happened with LEO standing around incompetently for two full hours before they took out the shooter.  If people do not talk about this and are not critical when the truth requires the same, who will stop the next shooter?

It sure won't be you, an armchair quarterback who is only capable of whining and not DOING. ROFLMAO.......

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The number of wounded has risen to 572. Some of those people were trampled in the chaos. I read an account by one dad who laid across his children to cover them...shoe marks on his back. I wonder how this creep got 10 guns into the hotel.

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gatorfan wrote:
2seaoat wrote:We have some on this forum who criticize what they think is armchair QBs whenever incompetent government is analyzed.  Those people have sucked on the government teat, and rationalize the absurdity of government's repeated mistakes.  Two hours to respond when Mandalay bay rooms are not masonry walls but drywall.  Bullets can travel through drywall easily.  A hotel security guard was shot through the wall, yet two hours passed before the door was breached.  Sorry the biggest massacre in US History happened with LEO standing around incompetently for two full hours before they took out the shooter.  If people do not talk about this and are not critical when the truth requires the same, who will stop the next shooter?

It sure won't be you, an armchair quarterback who is only capable of whining and not DOING. ROFLMAO.......

Imagine the police state (that he rails against) necessary to protect him in his lazyboy.

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President Trump getting on a helicopter talked about the miracle of the police response. Two hours. Please stop the fantasy. Will anybody tell the truth. Senator Fienstein for years pleaded with her fellow senators that bump stocks needed to be regulated, but her arm chair QB was belittled over and over again, yet she was right. The first response is that everything is ok with our government response and that our first responders are heroes. The truth is that the citizens were heroes as citizens helping citizens has become the norm whether it is Houston and cajun navy, Puerto Rico were individual private citizens are transporting aid, or concert goers filling trucks with wounded because the police, hotels, and emergency response was woefully inadequate. The Hospitals did a splendid job. They immediately got their staffs who were off duty into the hospitals because they trained. Where was the training to breach a hotel room when vegas has over a hundred thousand rooms, and it took two hours to take out a shooter. Please stop the fantasy and speak the truth.

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PkrBum wrote:
Imagine the police state (that he rails against) necessary to protect him in his lazyboy.

What horseshit! It doesn't take a police state, just competent intelligent police instead of a bunch of G.I. Joe wannabes and bully boys.

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2seaoat wrote:President Trump getting on a helicopter talked about the miracle of the police response.  Two hours.  Please stop the fantasy.  Will anybody tell the truth.  Senator Fienstein for years pleaded with her fellow senators that bump stocks needed to be regulated, but her arm chair QB was belittled over and over again, yet she was right.  The first response is that everything is ok with our government response and that our first responders are heroes.  The truth is that the citizens were heroes as citizens helping citizens has become the norm whether it is Houston and cajun navy, Puerto Rico were individual private citizens are transporting aid, or concert goers filling trucks with wounded because the police, hotels, and emergency response was woefully inadequate.  The Hospitals did a splendid job.  They immediately got their staffs who were off duty into the hospitals because they trained.  Where was the training to breach a hotel room when vegas has over a hundred thousand rooms, and it took two hours to take out a shooter.  Please stop the fantasy and speak the truth.  

Still clueless. Sigh.....

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Don't worry comrade... the nanny state is progressively growing in size and scope.

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It sure won't be you, an armchair quarterback who is only capable of whining and not DOING. ROFLMAO.......



Actually it will be somebody exactly like me who will protect the future victims. The fire chief just admitted on national tv they never trained for this. Are you kidding me. If people sit around in a circle jerk like our military veterans seem to do every time we invade some helpless third world country and want more benefits, our police state is a bloated bureaucracy where if anybody is critical of absolute incompetency, they are attacked. Kill the messenger. Sorry you do not like to hear the truth, but citizens need to demand the truth start being spoken when talking about the police state where instead of using the same criteria of good government, we have no politicians with the courage to be critical. I spoke to the police chief association when running for office and told them that there had to be consolidation, and better use of resources. There were nine candidates for different offices who spoke that day, and not one of them had the courage to talk about improvements. There are consequences for courage as a politician as they do not give their recommendation to that candidate, but multiple police chiefs came up and said Seaoat you are right, it has gotten out of hand. It is the same argument in fire protection. Yet, a town with 100k hotel rooms and they just admitted they did not train to breach a hotel room.....yea armchair qbs, yep, and government teat suckers who think they are heroes......I have seen it first hand and it is disgusting.

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2seaoat wrote:It sure won't be you, an armchair quarterback who is only capable of whining and not DOING. ROFLMAO.......



Actually it will be somebody exactly like me who will protect the future victims.  The fire chief just admitted on national tv they never trained for this.  Are you kidding me.  If people sit around in a circle jerk like our military veterans seem to do every time we invade some helpless third world country and want more benefits, our police state is a bloated bureaucracy where if anybody is critical of absolute incompetency, they are attacked.  Kill the messenger.  Sorry you do not like to hear the truth, but citizens need to demand the truth start being spoken when talking about the police state where instead of using the same criteria of good government, we have no politicians with the courage to be critical.  I spoke to the police chief association when running for office and told them that there had to be consolidation, and better use of resources.  There were nine candidates for different offices who spoke that day, and not one of them had the courage to talk about improvements.  There are consequences for courage as a politician as they do not give their recommendation to that candidate, but multiple police chiefs came up and said Seaoat you are right, it has gotten out of hand.  It is the same argument in fire protection.  Yet, a town with 100k hotel rooms and they just admitted they did not train to breach a hotel room.....yea armchair qbs, yep, and government teat suckers who think they are heroes......I have seen it first hand and it is disgusting.


You haven't seen anything first hand. Also, your little story of "running for (a minor) public office" is getting really stale. You wouldn't have a clue how to react in a situation like Vegas or Puerto Rico.

Tell me, oh Great Armchair Quarterback, what would YOU have done in either situation. Consider this a test of your perfect 20-20 hindsight.....it's the only kind you have. Did you refuse your Medicare and Social Security income or are you a government teat sucker?

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Still clueless. Sigh.....

Every city in America has multi story buildings which are future sniper nests, and sitting and praising a police department for a two hour response from the first shot to the breaching of the door is not going to protect Americans. What will protect Americans is public outcry about the slow response and demanding that we actually have competent personnel and plans. The Hospitals executed the emergency plans perfectly because you are dealing with higher IQs, but when you simply pat folks on the back who are good asking for salary raises and more benefits, but not so good on strategic planning which might actually involve less benefits, less personnel, and more responsive organizations you hit that blue wall. Hell yes we should be whinning. It is an epidemic in America of absolute false praise being given to absolute incompetence. Thankfully as always the real heroes are American citizens who got these people to the hospital, and if another hour had passed probably would have got a posse and kicked the door in as LEO stood frozen watching people die. If I am wrong on the two hours which has been reported, I will apologize, but I am outraged at the lack of training and drills to breach a room in Vegas.

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2seaoat wrote:Still clueless. Sigh.....

Every city in America has multi story buildings which are future sniper nests, and sitting and praising a police department for a two hour response from the first shot to the breaching of the door is not going to protect Americans.  What will protect Americans is public outcry about the slow response and demanding that we actually have competent personnel and plans.   The Hospitals executed the emergency plans perfectly because you are dealing with higher IQs, but when you simply pat folks on the back who are good asking for salary raises and more benefits, but not so good on strategic planning which might actually involve less benefits, less personnel, and more responsive organizations you hit that blue wall.  Hell yes we should be whinning.  It is an epidemic in America of absolute false praise being given to absolute incompetence.  Thankfully as always the real heroes are American citizens who got these people to the hospital, and if another hour had passed probably would have got a posse and kicked the door in as LEO stood frozen watching people die.  If I am wrong on the two hours which has been reported, I will apologize, but I am outraged at the lack of training and drills to breach a room in Vegas.

I see you avoided my questions. I'm not surprised. Again:

"Tell me, oh Great Armchair Quarterback, what would YOU have done in either situation. Consider this a test of your perfect 20-20 hindsight.....it's the only kind you have. Did you refuse your Medicare and Social Security income or are you a government teat sucker?"

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what would YOU have done in either situation.

What I have done my entire life. Tell the truth in public forums and take the chit. I do not buy into your cowboy world and teat sucking. Sorry. I live in the real world with people every day who have to deal with public emergencies and failures whether it is solving jail hangings, better efficiencies in our criminal justice system, or making tough policy choices with limited budgets. I am so sick and tired of entitled teat suckers reinforcing the status quo to get a pay check where the mission has long ago been forgotten and replaced with entitlements. People died because not enough people have been courageous enough to be critical of policies.

My job as a citizen is to demand competency, and have the courage to go to elected officials or use the courts to make real changes. It is not to enter your pretend world of tough guys and pretend heroes. I want immediately for the media to be discussing what the plan is in Las Vegas to breach a hotel room. It is apparent that NOBODY on any media channel is going to be a journalist and I have spent the morning trying to contact the same to start doing journalism and stop this false worship of non existent gods we call first responders. The hospitals got it right. LEO did not. sorry you do not like that being discussed. Simply wearing a uniform does not make a hero, and this fascist group think has to stop.

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2seaoat wrote:what would YOU have done in either situation.

What I have done my entire life.  Tell the truth in public forums and take the chit.  I do not buy into your cowboy world and teat sucking.  Sorry.  I live in the real world with people every day who have to deal with public emergencies and failures whether it is solving jail hangings, better efficiencies in our criminal justice system, or making tough policy choices with limited budgets.  I am so sick and tired of entitled teat suckers reinforcing the status quo to get a pay check where the mission has long ago been forgotten and replaced with entitlements.   People died because not enough people have been courageous enough to be critical of policies.  

My job as a citizen is to demand competency, and have the courage to go to elected officials or use the courts to make real changes.  It is not to enter your pretend world of tough guys and pretend heroes.  I want immediately for the media to be discussing what the plan is in Las Vegas to breach a hotel room.  It is apparent that NOBODY on any media channel is going to be a journalist and I have spent the morning trying to contact the same to start doing journalism and stop this false worship of non existent gods we call first responders.  The hospitals got it right. LEO did not.  sorry you do not like that being discussed.  Simply wearing a uniform does not make a hero, and this fascist group think has to stop.

Can you read? I know I've never said everyone in a uniform is a hero. Nope. They're just average folks doing a job YOU would never be willing or able to do yourself.

It's enough of a sweat for you to criticize and demean these regular folks, not get your hands dirty, and pretend to be involved by making a few phone calls.

Last of the community service hero's. That's you. Gag......

By the way, are you sucking at the government teat?????

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Did you refuse your Medicare and Social Security income or are you a government teat sucker?"

Being that you never worked a day in the private sector and you do not even understand how those programs work, let me help you. I will never get the money I paid into social security back. I would have to live to 70, and my wife will not get survivor benefits because she makes too much in her pension. So when I started working at 15 every dollar went to the government as I paid my way.

Now you got to enjoy the socialist benefits of the military, and then worked for other government units never having the courage to make it in America by hard work and the chance of failure. There is no failure in the military or government work, just a paycheck.

In fairness it will be more difficult for me to give you an answer to my medicare contributions because they are not summarized as social security is, but I can say with certainty with only 8 months on medicare I have paid in more, and will die before I become a teat sucker. Some of us actually worked and contributed to GDP and real economic growth, and some went for a free ride.

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2seaoat wrote:Did you refuse your Medicare and Social Security income or are you a government teat sucker?"

Being that you never worked a day in the private sector and you do not even understand how those programs work, let me help you.  I will never get the money I paid into social security back.  I would have to live to 70, and my wife will not get survivor benefits because she makes too much in her pension. So when I started working at 15 every dollar went to the government as I paid my way.

Now you got to enjoy the socialist benefits of the military, and then worked for other government units never having the courage to make it in America by hard work and the chance of failure.  There is no failure in the military or government work, just a paycheck.

In fairness it will be more difficult for me to give you an answer to my medicare contributions because they are not summarized as social security is, but I can say with certainty with only 8 months on medicare I have paid in more, and will die before I become a teat sucker.  Some of us actually worked and contributed to GDP and real economic growth, and some went for a free ride.

Your uninformed assumptions are tiring. I looked at my social security statement as I do every year (no I'm not collecting it yet) and lo and behold find that I started paying into SS when I was fourteen and working at a golf course. True, I spent 20 long years in the military and enjoy that retirement pay - I also paid in to social security during that 20 years - just so you don't appear to be foolish in the future I thought I would enlighten you. Since then I've spent 20 years working in the private sector and am still working because I enjoy it.

You've got nothing poser.

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The response that only those who wear a uniform can be critical, and if a person tells the truth about issues they are cowards. What a running joke. I doubt in person you would call me a pussy because I did not wear a uniform. Of course you have a concealed weapon because you are afraid. I am not. So you try to bait me with a bad asz response what I would have done to get the shooter. What a joke. I put my money on the private sector and American citizens. I do not give two cents to what the criminal justice system has become. It has become nothing more than slave militias in modern American society and it is out of whack as proven once again in Vegas. God bless the private citizens who responded heroically and saved lives. In regard to the others, it will be nine months of cover up before the public gets the real story.

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What a liar. Under federal law a person under the age of 14 cannot work. I started at fifteen and could not work unless I went to the social security office and secured a work permit for a 15 year old. No golf course in America is paying 14 year olds on their payroll. Please spare the nonsense. Just keep telling us what a good job our military is doing and what a great job leo's response was. Hey bull chitter. Make a copy of your social security statement and redact it and show us all you were on a payroll at 14.

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Workers 15 years of age and younger who work in a business owned solely by their parents (or standing in place of their parents) may work any time of day and any number of hours. In addition to the prohibition on hazardous jobs, however, workers 15 and under are also prohibited from being employed by their parents in manufacturing jobs.

So your folks owned the golf course. Now tell me when and where you got your work permit....of course we now know your parents owned the golf course.

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I've said before on this forum and others that police officers and soldiers are not my heroes. Firemen are my heroes, because they don't know who it is they are risking their lives to protect and they do not care.
Having said that, I think it's a little unfair to the policemen at this shooting to say they were slow in their response. A lot of policemen were trying to help the wounded on the ground. One said he was running out of towels to make tournequets out of . If one of my children were at that concert and there was a policeman on site, I'd rather he care for my wounded child and get him to safety than to be storming into a hotel room after the shooter. Maybe that's selfish of me, but I think anyone who had a loved one at that venue would feel the same way.
The guy killed his own self, as most mass shooters do. I haven't seen a report of his minute by minute activities, but I don't think the shooting went on for 2 hours. I feel like the police did the very best they could in a terrible situation. The fault is with the shooter and also with the system that doesn't really try to get these automatic weapons under control. I just heard on CNN the name of the company where you can order a kit to turn your weapon into an automatic. Why the HELL did they name that company on TV and make it easier for crazies who may be watching to convert their weapons too. I think CNN is much better than the other news networks, but they have been irresponsible in their coverage of this event, all the way from the beginning when they said the motive may have been to kill Trump supporters. They need to close their mouths until they find out the truth in these situations.

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2seaoat wrote:What a liar.  Under federal law a person under the age of 14 cannot work.  I started at fifteen and could not work unless I went to the social security office and secured a work permit for a 15 year old.  No golf course in America is paying 14 year olds on their payroll.  Please spare the nonsense.  Just keep telling us what a good job our military is doing and what a great job leo's response was.  Hey bull chitter.  Make a copy of your social security statement and redact it and show us all you were on a payroll at 14.  

What a foolish old man. I worked at a golf course at 14 - I had to get a work permit too, don't think they are even required now. I was paid $1.25 an hour and worked for 3 hours a day after school. Read the laws for Florida child labor loon. I don't need to lie like you do, or perhaps it's just that you are so clueless about the real world that you think you are telling the truth. Who knows. Sure I'll post a copy of my SS Statement on the web. Are you really that insane?

Quit making up BS to fit your pitiful narrative, I haven't commented on what a great job anyone has done......I just wanted to know what YOU would done - and as expected it was nothing of consequence. Just continue hiding in your armchair and whine away to your hearts content.

Isn't it about time for you to post another tear jerk sympathy post about your condition?

Poser.

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