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Selective service draft lottery Viet Nam era

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Vikingwoman wrote:
Frenger, Freddie Jr. wrote:
2seaoat wrote:
The only people who went to Viet Nam were the losers from my class of 730 kids.  

No comment.

Yeah, that was an awful thing to say especially about the one's who lost their lives. My late husband went to Viet Nam when he was 18 and came home w/ a Bronze Star for Valor and a Purple Heart. He then went to the University of Alabama and got his degree. I hate war just as much as anyone but to say they were losers is a little much. Oatie's just ashamed he didn't have the guts to go and is the real coward. Now he just gets on his soapbox and calls other people cowards while his voice is truth. Elmer Gantry reincarnated.


Yep. A lot of the people who fought in Vietnam got drafted. Richer kids may have wrangled a deferment (like Trump, Dubya, and Limbaugh) but having less money or connections certainly doesn't make one a "loser." We'd be a 99% loser society if that were the case! And as far as the dopers... a lot of the "dopers" only became dopers after they got to 'Nam, because they were trying to find a way to deal with the pressures of a miserable situation. And that, also, doesn't make them losers... just human.

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People who got drafted were citizens doing their duty. People who in anticipation of being drafted who joined were smart. However, the folks who volunteered in my class in 1970 when the war was winding down and they were bringing troops home were losers in my class. Sorry, if that is not the popular thing to say. Forty seven years later, and that conclusion is even more true. There was a truck strike in the summer of 1970 which made getting a job difficult as the economy slowed, but folks who were not going to school had all kinds of civilian employment available if they had simple skills. These kids did not have those skills. Just the simple truth. Dopers, boozers, or dumb as a post, they volunteered because they did not have options. Nobody says the truth because for the Military Industrial Complex to continue waging war and making profits has to sanctify those who join the mercenary army and bring honor to war, and dishonor to anybody who is critical of the militarization of America. I get it. My views are not popular. Like the kid in training to be a pilot who told me he just wanted to kill terrorists......the new paradigm.....killing people with different ideas......no nation state......just bad ideas.

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I volunteered for the Army on my birthday
They draft the white trash first,'round here anyway
I done two tours of duty in Vietnam
And I came home with a brand new plan
I take the seed from Colombia and Mexico
I plant it up the holler down Copperhead Road
Steve Earl!

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2seaoat wrote:Too funny.   We did not even have military objectives. .

Who is we? Is there a mouse in your pocket?

Who is we? Is there a mouse in your pocket?


Last time I checked civilian American citizens controlled our military, and in particular as a taxpayer who has seen one half of all taxes paid poured down the military rabbit hole while factories left this country, roads crumbled, and bridges fell, you bet we wanted a strategy other than counting bodies to justify a half million American kids killing civilians who simply wanted their independence from colonialism........tell me of the horrors of a unified Viet Nam without the French or Americans controlling and exploiting their people.

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2seaoat wrote:Who is we? Is there a mouse in your pocket?


Last time I checked civilian American citizens controlled our military, and in particular as a taxpayer who has seen one half of all taxes paid poured down the military rabbit hole while factories left this country, roads crumbled, and bridges fell, you bet we wanted a strategy other than counting bodies to justify a half million American kids killing civilians who simply wanted their independence from colonialism........tell me of the horrors of a  unified Viet Nam without the French or Americans controlling and exploiting their people.

You don't ask the questions draft dodger.

You don't ask the questions draft dodger.


I do ask questions because serving in the military is not a special pass to get to participate in American democracy.  America works best when military people are NOT involved in government.  How many of our founding fathers were military?   Real Americans understand that the tail does not wag the dog.....and I do mean tail.

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Arrogant you are, correct you are not.

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Chump575 wrote:Arrogant you are, correct you are not.

He's right about this. The vast majority of enlisted ranks in the U.S. military are borderline morons who shouldn't even be allowed to walk around in civil society without a keeper much less vote.

2seaoat wrote:You don't ask the questions draft dodger.


I do ask questions because serving in the military is not a special pass to get to participate in American democracy.  America works best when military people are NOT involved in government.  How many of our founding fathers were military?   Real Americans understand that the tail does not wag the dog.....and I do mean tail.

So now you advocate that when someone joins the military their citizenship and ability to vote should be put on "hold" because they shouldn't be allowed to be involved with their government. Unbelievable. Military folks are prohibited from public political activity when in uniform to avoid the implication they are representing the position of their service. You wouldn't know that of course cub scout.

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The military is the largest teat sucker in America. Like any other teat suckers they want more of taxpayer money. They perpetuate the illusion that America feeding MIC's bottom line and employing the near unemployable is going to stop threats to America. We project an Imperial colonizing presence in the world backed by those who are in the Military or were in the Military as they try to make Civilian Control of a democracy secondary to the militarization of America. Enough! We need to go back to our founding fathers admonishments against a standing army. It is the ticket to despotism and tyranny as the military just tries to justify their existence fighting Granada or Iraq at 10-1 advantage as we bomb innocent civilians and are now perceived by most of the world as the most dangerous obstacle to peace. We are the problem. Our vets and their groups seeking more handouts are part of that same problem. These are generalizations which are as invalid as the absurd generalization that we should honor our vets for what they have done......please look at those Iraqi children and tell me about honor. It is time to drastically reduce the American military. It is time to withdraw from Korea. It is time to withdraw from Europe. It is time to cut the military by 25%. It is time to defend America and not be a colonial imperial force padding Mic's bottom line. You cannot change evil without a drastic and equally painful departure from the militarization of America over the last 70 years.

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2seaoat wrote:The military is the largest teat sucker in America.  Like any other teat suckers they want more of taxpayer money.   They perpetuate the illusion that America feeding MIC's bottom line and employing the near unemployable is going to stop threats to America.   We project an Imperial colonizing presence in the world backed by those who are in the Military or were in the Military as they try to make Civilian Control of a democracy secondary to the militarization of America.  Enough!  We need to go back to our founding fathers admonishments against a standing army.  It is the ticket to despotism and tyranny as the military just tries to justify their existence fighting Granada or Iraq at 10-1 advantage as we bomb innocent civilians and are now perceived by most of the world as the most dangerous obstacle to peace.  We are the problem.  Our vets and their groups seeking more handouts are part of that same problem.  These are generalizations which are as invalid as the absurd generalization that we should honor our vets for what they have done......please look at those Iraqi children and tell me about honor.  It is time to drastically reduce the American military.  It is time to withdraw from Korea.  It is time to withdraw from Europe.  It is time to cut the military by 25%.  It is time to defend America and not be a colonial imperial force padding Mic's bottom line.  You cannot change evil without a drastic and equally painful departure from the militarization of America over the last 70 years.

You are so far out in left field you just went over the fence but inside the foul line. The Military ONLY does what their civilian bosses tell them to do. The Military tries to close bases or stop certain weapons systems and are stymied by members of Congress whose districts will be impacted.

Yes, in a lot of ways the military is bloated and inefficient at budgeting but civilians (in reality) are driving the bus. Walk through a typical military command headquarters (like NETC in Pensacola or the Pentagon) and you will find more civilians than military.

If I were boss for a day this would be my priority list:
Kill the F-35 program
Kill the Ford class carriers
Stop production of nuclear subs and go diesel electric only
Train for small scale warfare instead of the "big one"
Fold the Marines and Air Force into the Army (this would save a lot of money by eliminating duplicate capability)
Close unnecessary bases and sell the property at market value instead of giving it away
Rid the services of unnecessary higher echelon Officers and focus on the troops

That would be a good start

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Fire every civilian contractor in the Pentagon... COMPLETE congressional oversite and public watchdog of every contract.

Start the process of closing every foreign base... cutting the active troops and transferring the budgets to tech advances and training a reasonable reserve.

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That would be a good start


I agree, but who is going to have the courage to speak the truth. I ran for public office in the early 90s in a three county district. There were four candidates in the Republican primary. When invited to the police chief's regional meeting all the candidates spoke about supporting law enforcement and getting more money. I spoke very clearly that every small town and municipality had police chiefs and duplication of manpower and facilities and that better intergovernmental agreements and consolidation could bring real savings to taxpayers and better efficiencies to law enforcement. I was the only candidate who did not get their endorsement of the four, and I came in third in the race. I have no qualms about speaking the truth then and now, but it is unrealistic to think change will happen until first you change people's paradigm. That requires speaking truth at every public forum.

I had a friend come up to me and say "Seaoat you did not really go to the police chief meeting and propose consolidation.....are you nuts" You see if people cannot even propose more efficient and consolidated policing, how is a candidate or citizen going to take on the Military which has MIC pouring in lobbying dollars against anybody who talks about reducing our military. What was funny about that speech was at least two of the police chiefs who I knew pretty good came up to me off the record and said........"you nailed it, but nobody will ever give up their job to consolidate without a fight"

We need common sense. We need dialogue perhaps not as pot stirring as I have a tendency to project. We need a greatly reduced military and police presence in America. Efficiency and better refinement of strategy is not a dirty word.

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Good point about the lobby too. NO lobby if you seek govt contracts or provide them. Merit based contracts.

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I have gone to the FBI in a municipality where the mayor had hired his father's engineering firm who was fraudulently billing residents for services not rendered. When citizens questioned bills, city hall told them to pound on sand. The better government association published scathing articles about the corruption, but what did the voters do at the next election, they voted the son back in office, and daddy sold the engineering firm for a big number, and the new owners picked up right where daddy left off. This damn game is rigged and it takes citizens individually and collectively to have the courage to challenge the status quo. It is no fun having folks mad at you, but the truth must be supported over policies which are corrupt and self serving.

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