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The best thing that could happen for most of us, is that Trumpcare passes!

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Floridatexan
Sal
gatorfan
othershoe1030
del.capslock
Wordslinger
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Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Consider the outcome when, in the name of profit, millions of Americans learn they can't afford for they and their children to see a doctor anymore.

What's needed is the willingness to remove the need for health insurers and big phrama profits.

Did someone mention affordable healthcare?

Reality.

del.capslock

del.capslock

Wordslinger wrote:Consider the outcome when, in the name of profit, millions of Americans learn they can't afford for they and their children to see a doctor anymore.

What's needed is the willingness to remove the need for health insurers and big phrama profits.

Did someone mention affordable healthcare?

Reality.

Exactly! It was only after the crash of '29 and the onset of the Great Depression that FDR was able to get his New Deal programs through--stuff like Social Security, the TVA and Rural Electrificaton and Glass-Steagall.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/btraven/

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

Wordslinger wrote:Consider the outcome when, in the name of profit, millions of Americans learn they can't afford for they and their children to see a doctor anymore.

What's needed is the willingness to remove the need for health insurers and big phrama profits.

Did someone mention affordable healthcare?

Reality.

Now the CBO scoring (or just normal analysis) shows that cutting Medicaid will force many rural hospitals to close. Hospital workers lose their jobs and people have to drive hundreds of miles to get to a hospital. As 45 said: "No one knew that healthcare could be so complicated!"

Folks are really going to love it when they have to figure out what to do with aging relatives who can no longer afford nursing home care. Talk about the chickens coming home to roost...homeless shelters for the elderly anyone?

Unfortunately the R's have been screaming and chanting Repeal Obamacare for so long that they've painted themselves into an untenable corner. If they could grow up and act like adults and get together with the Democrats and just make a few adjustments to the ACA the whole country would be in much better shape. But of course THAT will never happen.

If a leading Republican and a leading Democrat would go have a few drinks together and make a joint statement that told the truth about our healthcare system and a possible fix for it, well that would be a thing to see. I am, needless to say, not holding my breath.

gatorfan



othershoe1030 wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:[b]]

If a leading Republican and a leading Democrat would go have a few drinks together and make a joint statement that told the truth about our healthcare system and a possible fix for it, well that would be a thing to see. I am, needless to say, not holding my breath.[/color]

Too bad they didn't do that when the original ACA was being drafted in secret by the Dem majority. But I guess that was then and the rules and expectations have changed now along with the composition of Congress.

There is too much money involved to chuck the health care system as it exists and not enough spine anywhere on The Hill to go single payer.......Medicare for all......except for all the money flowing to politicians in both major parties it's a no-brainer..

del.capslock

del.capslock

othershoe1030 wrote:
Now the CBO scoring (or just normal analysis) shows that cutting Medicaid will force many rural hospitals to close. Hospital workers lose their jobs and people have to drive hundreds of miles to get to a hospital. As 45 said: "No one knew that healthcare could be so complicated!"

Folks are really going to love it when they have to figure out what to do with aging relatives who can no longer afford nursing home care. Talk about the chickens coming home to roost...homeless shelters for the elderly anyone?

Unfortunately the R's have been screaming and chanting Repeal Obamacare for so long that they've painted themselves into an untenable corner. If they could grow up and act like adults and get together with the Democrats and just make a few adjustments to the ACA the whole country would be in much better shape. But of course THAT will never happen.

If a leading Republican and a leading Democrat would go have a few drinks together and make a joint statement that told the truth about our healthcare system and a possible fix for it, well that would be a thing to see. I am, needless to say, not holding my breath.

It's not just one side against the other--neither one will support public insurance or single-payer. Both sides are so dependent on political donations from for-profit insurance and healthcare companies that they can't afford to tell the truth.

Many American conservatives oppose universal health insurance because they see it as fundamentally antithetical to a free society. “If we persevere in our quixotic quest for a fetishized medical equality we will sacrifice personal freedom as its price,” wrote a guest editorialist in the Wall Street Journal in 2009. But according to the Heritage Foundation, a leading conservative think tank, ten nations freer than the United States have achieved universal health coverage. It turns out that the right kind of health reform could cover more Americans while increasing economic freedom.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2015/01/27/conservative-think-tank-10-countries-with-universal-health-care-are-economically-freer-than-the-u-s/#31794d2137e6
The best thing that could happen for most of us, is that Trumpcare passes! D1nBbIT

http://www.flickr.com/photos/btraven/

Sal

Sal

del.capslock wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:Consider the outcome when, in the name of profit, millions of Americans learn they can't afford for they and their children to see a doctor anymore.

What's needed is the willingness to remove the need for health insurers and big phrama profits.

Did someone mention affordable healthcare?

Reality.

Exactly! It was only after the crash of '29 and the onset of the Great Depression that FDR was able to get his New Deal programs through--stuff like Social Security, the TVA and Rural Electrificaton and Glass-Steagall.

We are truly doomed.

We find ourselves in an existential fight for the future of this country with the mole-people who have weaponized ignorance and hate, and y'all's solution is magical thinking.

"Let's give them what they want, and the scales of decades of programming and disinformation will fall from their eyes!"

Brilliant!

Spoiler Alert: These are the same people who love the ACA but abhor Obamacare.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

gatorfan wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:[b]]

If a leading Republican and a leading Democrat would go have a few drinks together and make a joint statement that told the truth about our healthcare system and a possible fix for it, well that would be a thing to see. I am, needless to say, not holding my breath.[/color]

Too bad they didn't do that when the original ACA was being drafted in secret by the Dem majority. But I guess that was then and the rules and expectations have changed now along with the composition of Congress.

There is too much money involved to chuck the health care system as it exists and not enough spine anywhere on The Hill to go single payer.......Medicare for all......except for all the money flowing to politicians in both major parties it's a no-brainer..

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/28/politics/supreme-court-health-timeline/index.html

The U.S. Supreme Court Thursday upheld the constitutionality of the Affordable Care Act, the health care law that President Obama signed in March 2010. Here's a look at key moments in the law's history:

February 24, 2009 -- In a joint session to Congress, President Obama says: "So let there be no doubt: Health care reform cannot wait, it must not wait, and it will not wait another year."

March 5, 2009 -- The Obama White House holds its first health care summit.

April 21, 2009 -- Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus and Ranking Member Chuck Grassley hold the first of three roundtables of health policy and industry experts to discuss the development of health care legislation.

July 15, 2009 -- The Senate's Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee passes The Affordable Health Choices Act. The bipartisan bill includes more than 160 Republican amendments accepted during the month-long mark-up, one of the longest in congressional history.

July 31, 2009 -- The bill is reported out of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce by a vote of 31 to 28.

August 15, 2009 -- During the August recess, Obama travels in support of the bill. Tea Party members and conservatives lash out against the bill at town halls. Obama battles a false rumor that the legislation includes "death panels" that could decide whether people live or die.

August 26, 2009 -- Sen. Edward "Ted" Kennedy, a leading proponent of health care legislation, dies, jeopardizing Senate Democrats' 60-seat filibuster-proof supermajority.

September 29, 2009 -- The Senate Finance Committee rejects two amendments to include a government-run public health insurance option in the sole compromise health care bill to date.

October 13, 2009 -- The Senate Finance Committee approves Baucus' landmark bill, the America's Healthy Future Act.

November 7, 2009 -- The House of Representatives passes a version of the sweeping health care bill by a vote of 220-215.

December 19, 2009 -- Senator Ben Nelson, a conservative Democrat, becomes the 60th vote needed to pass the Senate version of the health care bill.

December 24, 2009 -- The Senate passes its health care bill 60-39.

January 17, 2010 -- Obama stumps for Martha Coakley in a tight Massachusetts Senate race against Scott Brown to replace Kennedy. Brown had pledged to vote against Democratic health care efforts.

January 19, 2010 -- Brown wins the special election, jeopardizing the health care legislation.

February 25, 2010 -- Obama holds a televised heath care summit with leaders from both parties to explain the health care bill.

March 11, 2010 -- In a letter to Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, Majority Leader Harry Reid says Democrats will use "reconciliation," needing only 51 votes, to pass the health care bill.

March 21, 2010 -- The Senate passes its version of the bill, sending the legislation to Obama for his signature. A separate package of changes expanding the reach of the measure also passed the House over unanimous GOP opposition, and will be taken up by the Senate.

March 23, 2010 -- Obama signs the health care bill into law.

August 12, 2011 -- The 11th Circuit Court of Appeals rules that parts of the law are unconstitutional.

November 8, 2011 -- The U.S. Court of Appeals in Washington rules that the law is constitutional.

November 14, 2011 -- The Supreme Court agrees to hear a legal challenge to the law after 26 states, led by Florida, petitioned the high court.

March 26, 2012 -- The Supreme Court begins three days of oral arguments over the constitutionality of the law.

June 28, 2012 -- The Supreme Court rules that the individual mandate portion of the health care law may be upheld within Congress' power under the taxing clause.

*********

Floridatexan

Floridatexan


If this bill passes, people will die.

2seaoat



It will not pass. President Trump has been a slow motion wreck, and even he can now see that this entire process of governing is beyond his skills and experience. In regard to the ACA being drafted in secret. It is a nice talking point, but the President ran for President in 2008 on health care reform which he outlined in his campaign, and once the bill was drafted and modified in the Open in townhall meetings, and congressional hearings, it was signed into law. The repeal of the aca is all about tax relief for the wealthy. Nothing more or less. They just did not figure watching people die would upset americans......huge miscalculation.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

2seaoat wrote:It will not pass.  President Trump has been a slow motion wreck, and even he can now see that this entire process of governing is beyond his skills and experience.  In regard to the ACA being drafted in secret.   It is a nice talking point, but the President ran for President in 2008 on health care reform which he outlined in his campaign, and once the bill was drafted and modified in the Open in townhall meetings, and congressional hearings, it was signed into law.   The repeal of the aca is all about tax relief for the wealthy.  Nothing more or less.   They just did not figure watching people die would upset americans......huge miscalculation.

I love your last line, brillliant!

"They just did not figure watching people die would upset Americans . . . huge miscalculation."

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

The vote's been put off. Senators are headed to the WH. People are murmuring about working with the opposite party. Maybe the specter of total failure got their attention?

Demonstrations and phone calls at congressional offices applied pressure. Mass confusion. Perfect. Now maybe they'll act like grownups?

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

othershoe1030 wrote:The vote's been put off. Senators are headed to the WH. People are murmuring about working with the opposite party. Maybe the specter of total failure got their attention?

Demonstrations and phone calls at congressional offices applied pressure. Mass confusion. Perfect. Now maybe they'll act like grownups?


Don't hold your breath kid ...

PkrBum

PkrBum

Unraveling obamacaid is messy business. It was deliberately tangled into a bureaucratic web in 10's of thousands of pages. The fascist give away to enormous healthcare corporations should repulse leftist... but it came with a feel good talkingpoint that placates them. Comrades are easy.

2seaoat



There are real problems with geographic areas of this country and the ACA. If I was the leader of the Democrats, I would stop stonewalling and present over this July break a comprehensive bill which addresses the real problems with the ACA which could start with a national public option company which spanned all states and provided a transition into the Medicare for all. This would involve some real drill down to the policy level in these red states and show people that a person who is currently paying $900 could elect this national public option which would lower their premiums by a third, and then with that $600.00 per month premium you would give them a medicare card. I would do this for all people who are fifty years or older immediately. I would fund this with taking the 35 billion away from the increases in defense spending. A simple program with good numbers and people can understand the drill down. I would hold town meetings in red states, and show real numbers. Of course the tax refunds to the wealthy would have to be cancelled, and the ACA would have to keep its current funding schedule.

Once the red states had folks over fifty taken out of the ACA pool, you would see premiums for younger families drop like a rock as the public option being national would immediately allow sick older people to transition to Medicare with premiums being paid from the 35 billion of unnecessary defense spending increase. The Democrats cannot be the party of NO. They need leadership to take this to townhall meeting all over the red states and where real problems exist in the ACA. Watching the Republicans fail does not equal watching America succeed. We need rational options.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

PkrBum wrote:Unraveling obamacaid is messy business. It was deliberately tangled into a bureaucratic web in 10's of thousands of pages. The fascist give away to enormous healthcare corporations should repulse leftist... but it came with a feel good talkingpoint that placates them. Comrades are easy.

The best thing that could happen for most of us, is that Trumpcare passes! Senate-secrecy-health-care-1560x816

The best thing that could happen for most of us, is that Trumpcare passes! Dunce-cap-in-corner

del.capslock

del.capslock

2seaoat wrote:There are real problems with geographic areas of this country and the ACA.  If I was the leader of the Democrats, I would stop stonewalling and present over this July break a comprehensive bill which addresses the real problems with the ACA which could start with a national public option company which spanned all states  and provided a transition into the Medicare for all.   This would involve some real drill down to the policy level in these red states and show people that a person who is currently paying $900 could elect this national public option which would lower their premiums by a third, and then with that $600.00 per month premium you would give them a medicare card.   I would do this for all people who are fifty years or older immediately.  I would fund this with taking the 35 billion away from the increases in defense spending.   A simple program with good numbers and people can understand the drill down.   I would hold town meetings in red states, and show real numbers.   Of course the tax refunds to the wealthy would have to be cancelled, and the ACA would have to keep its current funding schedule.

Once the red states had folks over fifty taken out of the ACA pool, you would see premiums for younger families drop like a rock as the public option being national would immediately allow sick older people to transition to Medicare with premiums being paid from the 35 billion of unnecessary defense spending increase.   The Democrats cannot be the party of NO.   They need leadership to take this to townhall meeting all over the red states and where real problems exist in the ACA.   Watching the Republicans fail does not equal watching America succeed.   We need rational options.

Why so complicated? Either public insurance or single-payer.

Your comments about funding make you sound ignorant. The United States government can pay any bill denominated in US Dollars.

Your willful ignorance makes you seem like a stubborn old man who has lost the ability to learn new facts and adjust to new realities.

Government deficits are private savings.

The best thing that could happen for most of us, is that Trumpcare passes! 2CS2NYR

http://www.flickr.com/photos/btraven/

PkrBum

PkrBum

At the core... this issue illustrates the leftist desire to use govt to control society right down to the individual. They want to remove a person's choices based upon their own subjective inclinations... and they're happy to use the force and power of govt to wield their statist conditioning.

Edit: I should mention the "noble intent"... there's always that as the lure. But results never matter.

When will leftists recognize this? Likely never considering history. Carry on comrades... lol.

del.capslock

del.capslock

PkrBum wrote:At the core... this issue illustrates the leftist desire to use govt to control society right down to the individual. They want to remove a person's choices based upon their own subjective inclinations...

That's what government is, you dumb shit! It's the rules the members of a society agree upon to control the behavior of its citizens. DUH!

The best thing that could happen for most of us, is that Trumpcare passes! 7xuSj0B

http://www.flickr.com/photos/btraven/

PkrBum

PkrBum

del.capslock wrote:
PkrBum wrote:At the core... this issue illustrates the leftist desire to use govt to control society right down to the individual. They want to remove a person's choices based upon their own subjective inclinations...

That's what government is, you dumb shit! It's the rules the members of a society agree upon to control the behavior of its citizens. DUH!

The best thing that could happen for most of us, is that Trumpcare passes! 7xuSj0B

See what I mean? Penalize some... Mandate everyone... Pick winners and losers. Basic statism.

You suck.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan


The Word "Women" Literally Never Appears in the US Senate's 142-Page Health-Care Bill

Women have babies. If they didn’t, first the economy would collapse, and then the species would die out.

But because they do, from their late teens to their early forties, women have higher health-care costs than men of the same age. Carrying and birthing a child is a sometimes difficult, dangerous, complicated business, and one that, in America, can be incredibly expensive.

Despite the incontrovertible fact that men are biologically just as responsible as women for a pregnancy happening, before the Affordable Care Act passed in 2010, women in the US paid more for health care and insurance because they are the ones who can get pregnant. Specifically, American women of child-bearing age paid somewhere between 52% and 69% more in out-of-pocket healthcare costs then men.

The Trump administration’s health-care reform bill now in the Senate, and the version that passed the House this May, will force some women to pay more again. Specifically, it strips out hundreds of billions of dollars from Medicaid, the insurance for the poor, which now covers over 50% of all births in many US states, and allows states to opt out of covering “essential” healthcare that includes maternity and newborn care.

The Senate bill was crafted behind closed doors, by 13 men and no women. A search of the language used in the 142-page draft document (pdf) shows that womanhood and motherhood are, quite literally, also omitted from most of the bill itself. Here are the few mentions.

Motherhood

The bill uses the word “mother” twice, both in relation to abortion, and specifically to how it will cut health care for women. On page 8, the bill lays out new definitions of which health care plans qualify under the act, eliminating ones that provide abortion except in rare circumstances, saying:

Section 36B(c)(3)(A) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by inserting before the period at the end the following:
‘‘or a plan that includes coverage for abortions (other than any abortion necessary to save the life of the mother or any abortion with respect to a pregnancy that is the result of an act of rape or incest)’’
On page 9, under a section on “Exclusion of health pans including coverage for abortion,” the bill says

The term ‘qualified health plan’ does not include any health plan that includes coverage for abortions (other than any abortion necessary to save the life of the mother or any abortion with respect to a pregnancy that is the result of an act of rape or incest)
The words “maternal” or “maternity” never appear in the bill.

“Pregnancy” is only mentioned in relation to abortion and work requirements, except in one instance, in listing what “Medicaid flexibility programs,” which give states more control of Medicaid resources, should cover:

Pregnancy-related services, including postpartum services for the 12-week period beginning on the last day of a pregnancy.
Abortion is mentioned 11 times.

Womanhood

The word “woman” is used three times in the bill, but only in relation to abortion and a new work requirement.

The bill would withhold state funding from entities that provide abortions, except in very limited cases, among them, as described on page 35:

…the case where a woman suffers from a physical disorder, physical injury, or physical illness that would, as certified by a physician, place the woman in danger of death unless an abortion is performed, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself
The bill will allow states to decide that people who receive “medical assistance” need to work in order to qualify, and lays out some rules on those work requirements on page 50. Pregnant women and brand-new mothers cannot be required to work, but the requirement kicks in two months after birth.

States administering a work requirement under this subsection may not apply such requirement to (A) a woman during pregnancy through the end of the month in which the 60-day period (beginning on the last day of her pregnancy) ends.
The word “women” never appears in the Senate bill.

The Obamacare contrast

The Affordable Care Act, on the other hand, contains dozens of specific mentions of “women” that have nothing to do with abortion or work requirements. It is clear that it was written in part to make healthcare better and more accessible for women. Here are just a few:

Section 3509: Improving women’s heath

Part II: Support for pregnant and parenting teens and women

Section 10412: Young women’s breast health awareness and support of young women diagnosed with breast cancer.

The requirement that essential health benefits “take into account the health care needs of diverse segments of the population, including women, children, persons with disabilities, and other groups.”

Priority grants for pregnant women under age 21

The establishment of a Health and Human Services committee on women’s health.

The establishment of a Centers for Disease Control office on women’s health.

Funding for “cessation of tobacco use by pregnant women.”
Since the ACA passed, the number of women of child-bearing age without health insurance has dropped significantly. It is a full bill more than 900 pages long, not a draft working document like the Senate’s bill. But there’s little indication from that first draft that the men who wrote it are thinking about women’s health at all.

*************

http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/318-66/44345-the-word-qwomenq-literally-never-appears-in-the-us-senates-142-page-health-care-bill



del.capslock

del.capslock

Enlighten me: How many women wrote the 19th Amendment to the Constitution, you know, the one that granted women suffrage?

The fact that no women were involved in the writing of the bill is not a valid criticism.
The best thing that could happen for most of us, is that Trumpcare passes! BJeHiE6

http://www.flickr.com/photos/btraven/

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

del.capslock wrote:Enlighten me: How many women wrote the 19th Amendment to the Constitution, you know, the one that granted women suffrage?

The fact that no women were involved in the writing of the bill is not a valid criticism.
The best thing that could happen for most of us, is that Trumpcare passes! BJeHiE6

Everthing you've said here is true, but I still love women better than men. Blame it on their jeans ...

RealLindaL



Wordslinger wrote:Everthing you've said here is true, but I still love women better than men.  Blame it on their jeans ...

You haven't seen me in jeans.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

RealLindaL wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:Everthing you've said here is true, but I still love women better than men.  Blame it on their jeans ...

You haven't seen me in jeans.


Golly ... I must have mis-spelled the word. I think I meant genes .... LOL

dumpcare



PkrBum wrote:
del.capslock wrote:
PkrBum wrote:At the core... this issue illustrates the leftist desire to use govt to control society right down to the individual. They want to remove a person's choices based upon their own subjective inclinations...

That's what government is, you dumb shit! It's the rules the members of a society agree upon to control the behavior of its citizens. DUH!

The best thing that could happen for most of us, is that Trumpcare passes! 7xuSj0B

See what I mean? Penalize some... Mandate everyone... Pick winners and losers. Basic statism.

You suck.

You cannot have ACA or Trumpcare without some kind of a mandate or you think you're premiums are high now?

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