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As our rich got richer, our country got poorer. Trump loves the rich.

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I never made an argument to forgive student loans. I have made continual arguments for more budget support for post high school state schools. In the Chicagoland area you see these private universities in commercial buildings where they are raping young people with totally worthless paper, while committing them to indentured servitude.

I lost over two million dollars of real money when the FDIC closed a bank which I had commercial loans with which fully secure and I was paying each payment on time. Another bank took over and determined to sell all commercial loans and liquidate the loans. At the time it was impossible to find another Bank during the Tarp melt down. Two years of making payments and playing the game with 15k appraisals which were absurd. In the end, the property had to be a short sale, which was totally unnecessary if the FDIC had simply crammed down all loans to FMV and adjusted the payments. It would have saved the nation billions, all loans would be secured, and my monthly payments would have went from 6k to 3k, and the government would have received almost 80% of their capital back in ten years. Instead, they lost 80% of the principal, enriched a few successor banks. In my situation I had a management agreement which the bank approved to repurchase the business in three years, and within one year we owned it again and the new bank who when they took over the former bank could care less because they guaranteed the bank losses, rather than the government looking out for honest people who did nothing wrong and were current on their loans as appraised values crashed. We now own one of those business interests with 600k less debt, and not a dime owed to anyone which is cash flowing, and which would have been paying back the FDIC if it was not for the corruption of the banks and Wall Street. We still unnecessarily lost two million, but we have slowly worked back on that loss which we were only one of many at that bank. I saw grown men cry as they lost 4 million and never missed a payment and had successful business operations, only to see the government take a three million hit when if they simply funded loans for ten years at the new appraised value and lower interest rate the losses would have mostly been paid back.

Forgiving student loans is bone chilling stupid. We need to pass laws which allow discharge in part of student loans prospectively and we need to bring the cost of state colleges down, with a ceiling per year of student loans at low interest, and after that folks can charge whatever the market can bear, but the loans can be discharged in bankruptcy. This is not difficult. It is not the fuzzy thinking of Bernie where the answer lies. I love Bernie, but he never found a credible bipartisan funding path for his fantasy.

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2seaoat wrote:
  I love Bernie, but he never found a credible bipartisan funding path for his fantasy.

He never found a funding path because stupid asses like you refuse to acknowledge how money changed after the US pulled out of Bretton Woods.

Your deliberate ignorance is astonishing!

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2seaoat wrote:

Forgiving student loans is bone chilling stupid.  

Complete and utter bullshit! Willful ignorance!

While U.S. college students face tuition rates that far outpace inflation rates and more than $1.2 trillion in student debt, students in Germany, Finland, France, Sweden, Norway, Slovenia, Brazil, Luxembourg, and Iceland are receiving a quality education that's free.

College costs in the U.S. have risen by more than 1,122% since 1978, Mother Jones reports. That's a rate that far outpaces inflation, as well as the cost of other goods and services over the same period. To put this increase into perspective, the cost of medical care has jumped by 600%, while housing and food costs have gone up by less than 300%.

https://mic.com/articles/106866/the-average-cost-of-u-s-tuition-is-33-788-per-year-in-these-7-countries-it-s-free#.Qah91wFTn

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Floridatexan wrote:
del.capslock wrote:
2seaoat wrote:
    Forgiving student loans was dead from the git go.   Tell me how you are going to fund block grants to states for lowering tuition, and I will listen, but that is a bipartisan approach which would restrict more philosophers for vocational talents which may involve an IT degree and the skills to build a database.  

Forgiving student loans was an entirely practical idea and could have been easily accomplished.

Do you realize that at the beginning of the foreclosure crisis, the Boston Fed proposed a much cheaper solution than bailing out the banks but it was rejected by the government?

I dare you to read this article. Remember that the Treasury Secretary was Hank Paulson, a former Chairman of Goldman.

The US government saved the "too big to fail" banks in 2008. The reason? People were unable to pay their mortgages causing the banks billions in losses. The US Government authorized $700 billion to save the banks. The Federal Reserve Bank also gave them short-term loans that were even larger.

According to a report of the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston, there was another way. Why not save the people who were at risk? If the people were helped, they would be able to pay their mortgages, the banks would not have needed to be rescued and the financial crisis would have been considerably less severe. The cost? They calculated up to $50 Billion dollars overall - less than 10% of what was approved for banks.


http://necsi.edu/news/2011/bailouts.html

Seaoat actually made that argument repeatedly at the time.  And I concur...there was no need to "rescue" the banks and the insurance companies.  There was a strong argument for rescuing the people who were under water and suffering.  It was a coup against the people.


And as the rich got richer, the country got poorer. Both parties are locked in to receiving campaign financing in exchange for their souls.

What the people of America lack, is a government who gives a shit about the quality of our lives.

So far, the only politicians who care about us, for real, is Bernie and
Elizabeth Warren.

Seaoat chooses to ignore the fact that most of Western Europe is practicing the same kind of socialism that Bernie preaches. With free healthcare for all, and free college education. It works when its done right.

Reality.

Reality.

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How did the poor, minorities, working poor, and middle class make out under Obama?

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PkrBum wrote:How did the poor, minorities, working poor, and middle class make out under Obama?

You're still having issues with reading and comprehension. Did you hear me say that the democrats were less addicted to corrupt campaign financing than the republicans?

You want to make everything a partisan issue. The middle and poorer classes have been steadily decimated by traditional republican and democratic parties.

But, it you insist that all of America's economic problems were caused by Obama, and that we're all going to do better under the mad man ... be my guest.

Let's start with the republican healthcare bill which eviscerates the 99% so the 1% will get a tax break ....


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Wordslinger wrote:
PkrBum wrote:How did the poor, minorities, working poor, and middle class make out under Obama?

You're still having issues with reading and comprehension.  Did you hear me say that the democrats were less addicted to corrupt campaign financing than the republicans?

You want to make everything a partisan issue.  The middle and poorer classes have been steadily decimated by traditional republican and democratic parties.  

But, it you insist that all of America's economic problems were caused by Obama, and that we're all going to do better under the mad man ... be my guest.

Let's start with the republican healthcare bill which eviscerates the 99% so the 1% will get a tax break ....



I never said all... the point of course is that there was no leftist angst while Obama policies failed the middle down economically... or the enormous gains for the wealthy elite, enormous corps, and banking institutions. Why? I think y'all know... but won't admit it. Obamacaid was a give away... and not just to the poor. It blatantly propped up corp interests. The leftist scare demagoguery is mostly bs. But I'll agree that this pub plan is crappy too... but it's because it doesn't really solve the fascist Obama plan.

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PkrBum wrote:
I never said all... the point of course is that there was no leftist angst while Obama policies failed the middle down economically... or the enormous gains for the wealthy elite, enormous corps, and banking institutions. Why? I think y'all know... but won't admit it. Obamacaid was a give away... and not just to the poor. It blatantly propped up corp interests. The leftist scare demagoguery is mostly bs. But I'll agree that this pub plan is crappy too... but it's because it doesn't really solve the fascist Obama plan.

You're a fucking liar, there was plenty of opposition in the Democratic party.

Reps. Collin Peterson of Minnesota, Stephen Lynch of Massachusetts and Dan Lipinski of Illinois were among the 34 Democrats who voted against the Affordable Care Act in 2010.

All three have criticized Obamacare, which has resulted in premium spikes, high deductibles and vanishing health insurance markets, but they are not rallying behind the Republican proposal.


And obviously ignorant as well regarding the meaning of the word fascist.

Fake talkingpoints...   lol

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A reminder, for those with faulty memories:

20 ways George W. Bush destroyed our nation.

While Republicans are betting that America’s collective amnesia will be strong enough to wipe out the memory of President Bush’s catastrophic 8 years, it is up to the American left to refresh her memory. Here are the top 20 reasons why George destroyed America, in no particular order:

20. To begin with, Bush’s brother Jeb and the American Supreme Court stole the presidency on his behalf in 2000. Jeb Bush, the Governor of Florida at the time, cynically blocked more than 50,000 African-American voters from voting, then refused to allow a simple recount of the Florida votes after tens of thousands of complaints regarding voter difficulties at the voting booth due to confusing ballots. Several major national news organizations have verified that, had the votes been recounted, VP Al Gore would have won the presidency rather than President Bush.

19. He pulled the United States out of the Kyoto protocol. Stunting global environmental progress, George W. Bush pulled America out of the agreement which set requirements for 38 large nations to lower greenhouse gas emissions in order to combat climate change. His reason for doing so? That the agreement would “harm our economy and hurt our workers.”

18. George W. Bush ignored several warnings about Osama bin Laden. On August 6, 2001, White House intelligence presented to him a brief titled, “Bin Laden determined to strike in the US”. Of course, Bush ignored his duties as chief executive and failed to heed the warnings, paving the way for Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda to attack us on 9/11.

Just one of several official warnings about Osama Bin Laden that President George W. Bush chose to ignore.

17. Bush escalated the war on drugs, incarcerating minorities at a record pace for nonviolent, drug related offenses.

16. Bush squandered international goodwill after the 9/11 attacks. Instead of embracing the help of our major allies, he declared a global war on terrorism and stated, “you are either with us or against us“. For this reason, many of our major allies refused to join us in our preemptive war against Iraq.

15. Bush and his administration carefully deceived America by creating a false narrative that Iraq was an ally of Afghanistan in their war of terror against the U.S., and that they posed an imminent threat as a part of the concocted “Axis of Evil”.

14. Bush cynically lied about the scope and magnitude of Iraq’s weapons. In one of his most infamous speeches during the run-up to the Iraq war, President George W. Bush declared in 2002 that Saddam Hussein had the capacity to send unmanned aircraft to United States with bombs capable of unleashing chemical weapons and nuclear devices on the American homeland.

13. Bush ignored the United Nations and launched an illegal preemptive war. After they failed to get the UN Security Council to authorize an attack on Iraq, the Bush administration decided to lead America into a reckless preemptive war. He also declared the war without congressional approval, and even went as far as keeping the United States from ratifying the International Criminal Court Treaty in order to protect American troops from prosecution.

12. He escalated a war on CIA whistle-blowers. In the run-up to the Iraq war, Joseph C. Wilson, a writer for the New York Times, penned an Op-Ed saying that there was no credible nuclear threat from Iraq. In retaliation, the White House responded by leaking the name and endangering the life of his wife, Valerie Plame, one of the CIA’s top national security experts. Of course, President Bush went on to exonerate the staffer that leaked Plame’s name to the press, Scooter Libby.

11. President Bush launched the ill-advised, reckless, and unnecessary Iraq War. Not only did it decrease America’s standing in the world, but it led to hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths, more than 1 million refugees being ripped from their homes, and thousands of American military casualties.

Thanks to George W. Bush, thousands of soldiers now rest in Arlington Cemetery in Virginia.

10. When attacking Iraq, the Bush Pentagon failed to declare martial law, and did not secure anything except the Iraqi Oil Ministry. Tens of thousands of National Guard soldiers took to the streets in protest, looted the National Museum, and terrorized the Iraqi people as the American soldiers looked on.

9. Cynical war profiteering. The American taxpayers were forced to foot the bill for hundreds of no-bid contracts to some of the world’s most powerful military contractors. VP Dick Cheney and his company Halliburton made a healthy $39.5 billion profit.

8. Bush destroyed America’s standing in the world by ignoring the international ban on torture. While ignoring several agreements, namely the Geneva Convention, the Pentagon created a network of secret prisons and detention centers, where American soldiers tortured and mistreated suspected terrorists. The Bush White House then created secret detention sites in Eastern Europe in order to evade traditional justice systems.

7. Bush created spiraling federal deficits. After President Clinton handed him an annual budget surplus, President Bush single-handedly drove our country into that by creating the three biggest drivers of federal debt: the war in Iraq, the war in Afghanistan, and Medicare part D. according to a recent report by a Harvard researcher, the total costs of the Iraq and Afghan wars will end up being somewhere between $4 and $6 trillion.

6. He instated the reckless and unnecessary Bush tax cuts. The biggest experiment in supply-side trickle down economics in history, the Bush tax cuts resulted in catastrophe, blowing a hole in the federal budget and leading to unprecedented social economic inequality.

5. Bush fought a drastic war on science. Whether blocking stem cell research, loosening environmental regulations, saying that evolution is a theory, and cutting Pell Grants, President Bush never stopped trying to make America dumber and less healthy.

4. Bush destroyed the American middle-class. Median household incomes declined by 4.2%, social economic inequality reached epidemic proportions, and the middle-class took on more debt than at any time since the Great Depression. His policies led to 8 million Americans falling below the poverty line, 3.5 million of those being children.

3. President Bush and his policies led to the 2007 Great Recession. The Securities and Exchange Commission and the Federal Reserve stood idly by while the big banks created a $600,000,0000,000,000 mortgage-backed derivatives bubble that burst and brought down the global economy

2. While going on a record number of vacations and holding a record-setting least number of press conferences, President Bush unleashed Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and Paul Wolfowitz upon the American people. This was the first time that the neoconservative warhawks were able to fully take control of the American government and implement their military/corporatist empire.

1. Unlike President Obama, President Bush stood by and watched as 35 million uninsured Americans risked death and financial ruin without proper and affordable health care.

http://aattp.org/george-w-bush-top-20-ways-he-destroyed-america/

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