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Bernie Sanders, The New York Times
Sanders writes: "For the sake of our country and the world, the Democratic Party, in a very fundamental way, must change direction. It has got to open its doors wide to working people and young people. It must become less dependent on wealthy contributors, and it must make clear to the working families of this country that, in these difficult times, it is prepared to stand up and fight for their rights."

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/44131-how-democrats-can-stop-losing-elections


By rights, Sanders should have been elected. We'd have environmental protection and serious programs to counter global warming. Women would retain their right to choose. Public Education would be getting more assistance and our military budget -- tens of billions of dollars -- would have been cut, not increased. Our foreign military engagements would be reduced, consumer protection laws would have been enhanced, and the rich would have had to pay their fair share of taxes. Etc. Etc. Etc. Bernie's right -- if the democrats really want to prevail, they have to change their ways. Goodbye to Pelosi, Donna Brazil, Chuck Schumer and all of the old guard.

Was it Einstein who said that if you keep doing the same thing and expect to achieve a different result, you're nuts?

The game is rigged and always has been rigged. The country was founded by the rich, of the rich and for the rich and it hasn't changed. Right or Left we're still governed by big money.

No wonder people are going nuts, buying guns and shooting politicians. You don't need a crystal ball to know that soon some armed nutcase from the far right will start shooting democrats.

The truth is, if we don't end the influence of big bucks on politicians, we will continue see our national coherence diminished and our nationhood destroyed. The DNC is still committed to big bucks.

And the only politicians out there who are truly concerned about the American People, are Sanders and Warren.

Reality.

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Wordslinger wrote:

By rights, Sanders should have been elected.  We'd have environmental protection and serious programs to counter global warming.  Women would retain their right to choose. Public Education would be getting more assistance and our military budget -- tens of billions of dollars -- would have been cut, not increased.  Our foreign military engagements would be reduced, consumer protection laws would have been enhanced, and the rich would have had to pay their fair share of taxes.  Etc. Etc. Etc.  Bernie's right -- if the democrats really want to prevail, they have to change their ways.  Goodbye to Pelosi, Donna Brazil, Chuck Schumer and all of the old guard.

Was it Einstein who said that if you keep doing the same thing and expect to achieve a different result, you're nuts?

The game is rigged and always has been rigged.  The country was founded by the rich, of the rich and for the rich and it hasn't changed.  Right or Left we're still governed by big money.

No wonder people are going nuts, buying guns and shooting politicians.  You don't need a crystal ball to know that soon some armed nutcase from the far right will start shooting democrats.  

The truth is, if we don't end the influence of big bucks on politicians, we will continue see our national coherence diminished and our nationhood destroyed.  The DNC is still committed to big bucks.  

And the only politicians out there who are truly concerned about the American People, are Sanders and Warren.

Reality.

There's so much of this post I agree with that I hesitate to comment, but the fact is, money is a BIG player in the game of politics. Unfortunately, since the Clinton administration, the Democratic party has allied itself, sub rosa mostly, with Wall Street.

After 2008, when Wall Street crashed the global economy, the Democrats were in power in D.C. and did nothing to correct the problem but bail out the financial malefactors.

The Clinton Cartel still, to a greater-or-lesser degree, controls the party. Until they are pushed out, it's just going to be more of the same. Unfortunately, I'm afraid that Warren has come under their sway. She's going to have to repudiate Hillary before I'll trust her. Hillary and her Wall Street minions destroyed the party and must be renounced. She sounds and acts more like Tom Dewey than FDR.

One guy I'm looking at is Swalwell. He seems to me to be the real up-and-comer. I like Bernie, but he's too old to really have a future in the party other than in some kind of Godfather Emeritus position.

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Bernie is clueless how to connect to rural America. The would rather cut their noses off to spite their face than to let smarties dictate the right path. Most working Americans find it disgusting to cancel student loans and talk about using their tax dollars to make things easier for intellectual kids going to college. Sorry, you will not capture rural hard working Americans by proposing to give away things to kids who use student loans to vacation and party, and then think some Truck driver in Nebraska should pay for it.

I am all for a progressive tax rate of the 1970s to begin to fix this country, but this idea that the rich and powerful who have always controlled this country will simply go away because of a politician. Nope. The key is to simply fix the tax code, and quit talking about give aways to anybody including the current give aways to the wealthy. The farmers in Illinois hate Democrats. Bernie or any other politician can NOT win those folks over talking about forgiving student loans.

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2seaoat wrote:Bernie is clueless how to connect to rural America.  The would rather cut their noses off to spite their face than to let smarties dictate the right path.   Most working Americans find it disgusting to cancel student loans and talk about using their tax dollars to make things easier for intellectual kids going to college.  Sorry, you will not capture rural hard working Americans by proposing to give away things to kids who use student loans to vacation and party, and then think some Truck driver in Nebraska should pay for it.

I am all for a progressive tax rate of the 1970s to begin to fix this country, but this idea that the rich and powerful who have always controlled this country will simply go away because of a politician.  Nope.   The key is to simply fix the tax code, and quit talking about give aways to anybody including the current give aways to the wealthy.   The farmers in Illinois hate Democrats.   Bernie or any other politician can NOT win those folks over talking about forgiving student loans.

Assuming you're right about this, just what the fuck do the farmers of Illionois think they're gonna' get with the republicans, led by the bullshitter-in-chief, in control? You think the Koch Bros. are gonna subsidize small farmers in Illinois?

Here's reality -- poor working Americans greatly outnumber every other working class, even when the rest are all added together. The voters have learned that the democrats are happy to let the working and poorer classes starve. And now they're learning that the republicans are no different.

Hello Mr. Sanders and Mrs. Warren ....welcome to the Oval Office.

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2seaoat wrote: Most working Americans find it disgusting to cancel student loans and talk about using their tax dollars to make things easier for intellectual kids going to college.  Sorry, you will not capture rural hard working Americans by proposing to give away things to kids who use student loans to vacation and party, and then think some Truck driver in Nebraska should pay for it.


It is obscene to suggest that farmers and truck drivers don't want their kids to go to college. Most of the land-grant colleges started as agricultural schools. What a disgraceful, elitist point of view.

Farmers and truck drivers also understand the fundamental unfairness of a bankruptcy code that allows bankers and business men to go belly-up but disallows student loans from being discharged.

It's worth noting that the urban and urbanized-area population is roughly 70% of the country and that young people, both urban and rural, overwhelmingly supported Bernie.

I also find it hard to believe that a person who poses as an educated man, believes the "key" is to merely fix the tax code. That's so preposterously simplistic as to render the idea laughable.

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"The key is to simply fix the tax code, and quit talking about give aways to anybody including the current give aways to the wealthy."

"Give away to the wealthy" is newspeak for keeping more of the money you earn.

The "wealthy" of which you speak already progressively pay the majority of taxes.

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It is that simple. Progressive tax codes pay bills and allow our country to invest in Americans. Illinois farmers are worried about the estate tax, and discussions of eliminating the stepped up basis when they eliminate the estate tax. I believe the estate tax has granted too many exemptions. I would bring the individual exemption back to 1 million dollars. I remember before Reagan when it was $125,000 which did adversely impact the family farm. However almost every farmer around here is getting at least 40k subsidy from the federal government in out dated farm subsidy when most of these folks went from making a 50k family income to multi hundreds of thousand dollar incomes while sitting in air conditioned tractors and combines which are literally driven by gps when twenty years ago they struggled on two buck corn which has with trade and ethanol gone up nearly three hundred percent in recent years.

Rural America has no use for democrats. They want to limit subsidy, raise their taxes, tell them how smart they are and what policies are good for them, and cut the defense budget. The truth is that Democrats are exactly what rural America needs, but the arrogance just gets in the way of better policy. The Democrats are losing the cultural war, and if they ever want to win the political war, they have to recognize the cultural divide.

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The estate tax is a tax on earnings that had already been taxed... at least once.

All of this necessary of course because the govt can't seem to operate on record tax receipts.

Nice agenda comrade.

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2seaoat wrote:It is that simple.  Progressive tax codes pay bills and allow our country to invest in Americans.   Illinois farmers are worried about the estate tax, and discussions of eliminating the stepped up basis when they eliminate the estate tax.  I believe the estate tax has granted too many exemptions.   I would bring the individual exemption back to 1 million dollars.   I remember before Reagan when it was $125,000 which did adversely impact the family farm.  However almost every farmer around here is getting at least 40k subsidy from the federal government in out dated farm subsidy when most of these folks went from making a 50k family income to multi hundreds of thousand dollar incomes while sitting in air conditioned tractors and combines which are literally driven by gps when twenty years ago they struggled on two buck corn which has with trade and ethanol gone up nearly three hundred percent in recent years.  

Rural America has no use for democrats.   They want to limit subsidy, raise their taxes, tell them how smart they are and what policies are good for them, and cut the defense budget.    The truth is that Democrats are exactly what rural America needs, but the arrogance just gets in the way of better policy.  The Democrats are losing the cultural war, and if they ever want to win the political war, they have to recognize the cultural divide.

First off, as anyone with a brain the size of a LeSueur pea knows, the United States does not need taxes to pay bills. The United States is the only source of US Dollars and can create them at will.

Naturally, considering your advanced years and rapidly failing synaptic connections, you're stuck in the Cross of Gold era of Economic thought and are not familiar with Modern Monetary Theory. Make the effort to get current. Here's a good place to start:  http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/03/what-is-modern-monetary-theory-or-mmt.html

To lump all rural Americans into one simple group is typical of weak-minded thinking. Rural America is a diverse, complicated place. Just wait until Trump's Border Thugs start rounding up farmworkers and see how quickly they turn against him.

As the older, conservative rural voters age out and the younger, more liberal voters take their place the rural-urban gap will shrink.

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PkrBum wrote:"The key is to simply fix the tax code, and quit talking about give aways to anybody including the current give aways to the wealthy."

"Give away to the wealthy" is newspeak for keeping more of the money you earn.

The "wealthy" of which you speak already progressively pay the majority of taxes.

Why don't you post some fucking data instead of just spewing reactionary drivel. The tax code is filled with loopholes and exceptions that favor the wealthy. Who the fuck do you think writes it, anyway? Poor people?

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del.capslock wrote:
PkrBum wrote:"The key is to simply fix the tax code, and quit talking about give aways to anybody including the current give aways to the wealthy."

"Give away to the wealthy" is newspeak for keeping more of the money you earn.

The "wealthy" of which you speak already progressively pay the majority of taxes.

Why don't you post some fucking data instead of just spewing reactionary drivel. The tax code is filled with loopholes and exceptions that favor the wealthy. Who the fuck do you think writes it, anyway? Poor people?

Who the fucks money is it that you want more of? It's just more social justice/engineering via govt.

The ultimate loophole is your collectivist statist ideology. No matter what you allow govt to take...

It will never be enough. That's a little clue for you comrade... history is littered with your utopias.

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2seaoat wrote:Bernie is clueless how to connect to rural America.  The would rather cut their noses off to spite their face than to let smarties dictate the right path.   Most working Americans find it disgusting to cancel student loans and talk about using their tax dollars to make things easier for intellectual kids going to college.  Sorry, you will not capture rural hard working Americans by proposing to give away things to kids who use student loans to vacation and party, and then think some Truck driver in Nebraska should pay for it.

I am all for a progressive tax rate of the 1970s to begin to fix this country, but this idea that the rich and powerful who have always controlled this country will simply go away because of a politician.  Nope.   The key is to simply fix the tax code, and quit talking about give aways to anybody including the current give aways to the wealthy.   The farmers in Illinois hate Democrats.   Bernie or any other politician can NOT win those folks over talking about forgiving student loans.

Giveaways? Like Social Security and Medicare? ROFLMAO. Does Illinois still have any farmers that aren't absentee or corporate?

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del.capslock wrote:





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PkrBum wrote:
del.capslock wrote:
PkrBum wrote:"The key is to simply fix the tax code, and quit talking about give aways to anybody including the current give aways to the wealthy."

"Give away to the wealthy" is newspeak for keeping more of the money you earn.

The "wealthy" of which you speak already progressively pay the majority of taxes.

Why don't you post some fucking data instead of just spewing reactionary drivel. The tax code is filled with loopholes and exceptions that favor the wealthy. Who the fuck do you think writes it, anyway? Poor people?

Who the fucks money is it that you want more of? It's just more social justice/engineering via govt.

The ultimate loophole is your collectivist statist ideology. No matter what you allow govt to take...

It will never be enough. That's a little clue for you comrade... history is littered with your utopias.

You ignorant bastard! ALL government is "social justice/engineering" of one sort or another. Allow me to quote from a document with which you are apparently unfamiliar:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

Recognize that, you dumb shit? If you do, you probably learned it in a school built, maintained and supported by GOVERNMENT!

Of course, judging from the illiterate tenor of your posts, you probably got a social promotion out of that class.

Why don't you quit vomiting reactionary drivel and start posting like an intelligent adult? You have NO evidence or data to support any of your moronic spew and you repeatedly use the old Soviet technique of disinformation to skew a thread away from the subject at hand and towards your imbecilic notions.

You know, your anarchic hate for government resembles some of the stuff attributed to those black-clad anarchists in Seattle back in '99. Are you sure you're not on some kind of FBI list?

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It's no surprise that the federal govt took over education of the young. There's no other way in nature that they can create useful idiot cucks... like you. You don't have an independent thght in your head.

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PkrBum wrote:It's no surprise that the federal govt took over education of the young. There's no other way in nature that they can create useful idiot cucks... like you. You don't have an independent thght in your head.

You ignorant dipshit! Schools are run by local governments. You can't site one source that proves that the Federal Government has "taken over" education.

When it comes to matters of policy, the public tends to look to the federal government to lead the way, but the local governments actually determine educational policy. Early in our nation's history, lawmakers passed the 10th Amendment to the Constitution which is the basis for making education a function of the states. Each school district is administered and financed by the community along with that district's state government. School districts with higher socioeconomic levels tend to give more resources to their schools. Standards and quality of education consequently vary widely from state to state, town to town, and even district to district.
http://education.findlaw.com/curriculum-standards-school-funding/the-roles-of-federal-and-state-governments-in-education.html

Your crazy conspiracy shit is doing real damage to your credibility. Have you been fitted for tinfoil hat lately? It might help with the voices in your head.

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del.capslock wrote:
PkrBum wrote:It's no surprise that the federal govt took over education of the young. There's no other way in nature that they can create useful idiot cucks... like you. You don't have an independent thght in your head.

You ignorant dipshit! Schools are run by local governments. You can't site one source that proves that the Federal Government has "taken over" education.

When it comes to matters of policy, the public tends to look to the federal government to lead the way, but the local governments actually determine educational policy. Early in our nation's history, lawmakers passed the 10th Amendment to the Constitution which is the basis for making education a function of the states. Each school district is administered and financed by the community along with that district's state government. School districts with higher socioeconomic levels tend to give more resources to their schools. Standards and quality of education consequently vary widely from state to state, town to town, and even district to district.
http://education.findlaw.com/curriculum-standards-school-funding/the-roles-of-federal-and-state-governments-in-education.html

Your crazy conspiracy shit is doing real damage to your credibility. Have you been fitted for tinfoil hat lately? It might help with the voices in your head.

The Federal DOE plays a much larger role in dictating policy to state/local governments than you think, there is more to it than curriculum policy, etc. It's budget is also the 3rd largest of cabinet agencies.

I'll CITE a link:

https://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/fed/role.html

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gatorfan wrote:

The Federal DOE plays a much larger role in dictating policy to state/local governments than you think, there is more to it than curriculum policy, etc. It's budget is also the 3rd largest of cabinet agencies.


So what? Who gives a shit? What, are you afraid your kids won't be able to think for themselves? Did you grow up believing all the bullshit your parents and teachers fed you?

This is just more crazy anti-government, conspiracy horseshit. People with any sense understand that it's better if more people are educated to some reasonable standard than not. You Reich-wingers are all a bunch of sissy-ass cowards, afraid someone will poison your kids minds.

You must not have much faith in your idiot children's ability to think for themselves--understandable considering how intellectually deficient most of you are.

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del.capslock wrote:
gatorfan wrote:

The Federal DOE plays a much larger role in dictating policy to state/local governments than you think, there is more to it than curriculum policy, etc. It's budget is also the 3rd largest of cabinet agencies.


So what? Who gives a shit? What, are you afraid your kids won't be able to think for themselves? Did you grow up believing all the bullshit your parents and teachers fed you?

This is just more crazy anti-government, conspiracy horseshit. People with any sense understand that it's better if more people are educated to some reasonable standard than not. You Reich-wingers are all a bunch of sissy-ass cowards, afraid someone will poison your kids minds.

You must not have much faith in your idiot children's ability to think for themselves--understandable considering how intellectually deficient most of you are.

Your little duck-fit tantrum makes no sense based on what I stated in my post. I provided some information - I didn't weigh in on whether it right, wrong, or indifferent. Try to read more carefully next time of just cram your childish rants up your ass. Whatever strains your pea brain the least.

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gatorfan wrote:
Your little duck-fit tantrum makes no sense based on what I stated in my post. I provided some information - I didn't weigh in on whether it right, wrong, or indifferent. Try to read more carefully next time of just cram your childish rants up your ass. Whatever strains your pea brain the least.

Oh, boo-hoo-hoo, you crybaby. This is a politics forum not Aunt Bea's Mah-jong group. The heat, the kitchen--get it?

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del.capslock wrote:
gatorfan wrote:
Your little duck-fit tantrum makes no sense based on what I stated in my post. I provided some information - I didn't weigh in on whether it right, wrong, or indifferent. Try to read more carefully next time of just cram your childish rants up your ass. Whatever strains your pea brain the least.

Oh, boo-hoo-hoo, you crybaby. This is a politics forum not Aunt Bea's Mah-jong group.  The heat, the kitchen--get it?

You're just too stupid to see what an idiot you sound like here. Grow up child.

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gatorfan wrote:
You're just too stupid to see what an idiot you sound like here. Grow up child.

Right, that must be it. You ignorant hillbillies have burned down the conservative movement in this country. You can't think, you can't express yourselves above a fourth-grade level, you reduce every problem to a binary choice and you hate everything you can't understand--which is pretty much everything.

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Wordslinger wrote:

Bernie Sanders, The New York Times
Sanders writes: "For the sake of our country and the world, the Democratic Party, in a very fundamental way, must change direction. It has got to open its doors wide to working people and young people. It must become less dependent on wealthy contributors, and it must make clear to the working families of this country that, in these difficult times, it is prepared to stand up and fight for their rights."

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/44131-how-democrats-can-stop-losing-elections


By rights, Sanders should have been elected.  We'd have environmental protection and serious programs to counter global warming.  Women would retain their right to choose. Public Education would be getting more assistance and our military budget -- tens of billions of dollars -- would have been cut, not increased.  Our foreign military engagements would be reduced, consumer protection laws would have been enhanced, and the rich would have had to pay their fair share of taxes.  Etc. Etc. Etc.  Bernie's right -- if the democrats really want to prevail, they have to change their ways.  Goodbye to Pelosi, Donna Brazil, Chuck Schumer and all of the old guard.

Was it Einstein who said that if you keep doing the same thing and expect to achieve a different result, you're nuts?

The game is rigged and always has been rigged.  The country was founded by the rich, of the rich and for the rich and it hasn't changed.  Right or Left we're still governed by big money.

No wonder people are going nuts, buying guns and shooting politicians.  You don't need a crystal ball to know that soon some armed nutcase from the far right will start shooting democrats.  

The truth is, if we don't end the influence of big bucks on politicians, we will continue see our national coherence diminished and our nationhood destroyed.  The DNC is still committed to big bucks.  

And the only politicians out there who are truly concerned about the American People, are Sanders and Warren.

Reality.

Once it was one v one with Trump, Sanders would have exposed socialism for the failure it is all over the world and just south of us in Venezuela where civil war in on the horizon. Americans don't want socialism. Comrade Free Stuff would have tried to push free college etc at the expense of the middle class just like Obama did in his backdoor deals with Obamacare. The middle class, unless Obamacare is stripped away, will collapse, under the weight of having their income redistributed to those who can't or won't pay for Obamacare premiums and deductibles. What good is insurance if doctors don't take it and you cannot afford to use it?

Hmmmmm wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:

Bernie Sanders, The New York Times
Sanders writes: "For the sake of our country and the world, the Democratic Party, in a very fundamental way, must change direction. It has got to open its doors wide to working people and young people. It must become less dependent on wealthy contributors, and it must make clear to the working families of this country that, in these difficult times, it is prepared to stand up and fight for their rights."

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/44131-how-democrats-can-stop-losing-elections


By rights, Sanders should have been elected.  We'd have environmental protection and serious programs to counter global warming.  Women would retain their right to choose. Public Education would be getting more assistance and our military budget -- tens of billions of dollars -- would have been cut, not increased.  Our foreign military engagements would be reduced, consumer protection laws would have been enhanced, and the rich would have had to pay their fair share of taxes.  Etc. Etc. Etc.  Bernie's right -- if the democrats really want to prevail, they have to change their ways.  Goodbye to Pelosi, Donna Brazil, Chuck Schumer and all of the old guard.

Was it Einstein who said that if you keep doing the same thing and expect to achieve a different result, you're nuts?

The game is rigged and always has been rigged.  The country was founded by the rich, of the rich and for the rich and it hasn't changed.  Right or Left we're still governed by big money.

No wonder people are going nuts, buying guns and shooting politicians.  You don't need a crystal ball to know that soon some armed nutcase from the far right will start shooting democrats.  

The truth is, if we don't end the influence of big bucks on politicians, we will continue see our national coherence diminished and our nationhood destroyed.  The DNC is still committed to big bucks.  

And the only politicians out there who are truly concerned about the American People, are Sanders and Warren.

Reality.

Once it was one v one with Trump, Sanders would have exposed socialism for the failure it is all over the world and just south of us in Venezuela where civil war in on the horizon. Americans don't want socialism. Comrade Free Stuff would have tried to push free college etc at the expense of the middle class just like Obama did in his backdoor deals with Obamacare.  The middle class, unless Obamacare is stripped away, will collapse, under the weight of having their income redistributed to those who can't or won't pay for Obamacare premiums and deductibles. What good is insurance if doctors don't take it and you cannot afford to use it?

Bullshit. There are differing types of socialism the same as there are different shades of conservatism. Bernie's form of democratic socialism is a great success in several countries of Western Europe. Trump's (and your) favorite mode of healthcare is healthcare for the wealthy and let everyone else die. Reality.

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