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1 NYT Editorial Board on 4/30/2017, 8:06 am


by The New York Times Editorial Board
April 29, 2017
......................


"It was fitting that President Trump closed out his first 100 days in another bumbling attack on Obamacare, trying and failing to jam a bill through the House this week that had no chance of passing the Senate, just to create the illusion of action.

The sorry saga of health care under this president bears all the Trumpian hallmarks that Americans are learning to expect: the dishonest campaign promise (“health care for everyone”); the clownish attempts to write a bill; the miniaturization of Paul Ryan (remember that guy?); the rivalrous White House confederation of Bannonite anarchists and glittering cosmopolites; the dearth of nonwhites and nonmales at the table; the absence of any strategy and of any vision beyond “winning.”

All that’s needed to complete the Trump pattern is the insultingly obvious effort by the president’s kin to cash in. A health care summit meeting at the Trump International Hotel in Washington, maybe.

If only this administration could simply play as comedy, as pratfalls and double takes. Unfortunately, the saga of health care also reveals the capacity of Mr. Trump to do harm, through incompetence and indifference, if not effective action. Rather than build on the foundation of the Affordable Care Act, and take credit for a strengthened system, Mr. Trump is causing the prospect of nationally affordable care to recede through malign neglect.

Governing, so far, has turned out to be more than Mr. Trump can manage. He didn’t know very much coming into the job of president, including how little he knew, and the extent of his own ignorance has come as a continual surprise to him. “Nobody knew that health care could be so complicated,” he famously marveled the first time he was preparing to fail at passing legislation. He expressed the same wonder of discovery at the complexity of North Korea.

In private life, Mr. Trump was accustomed to negotiations based on the simple reality that everyone involved shared the same objective: profit. He has struggled to bargain with legislators, who want to satisfy many constituencies and have conflicting notions of the national interest. In that sense, legislative deals require far more art than commercial ones, and for that reason, Mr. Trump has found himself in over his head. This week, after congressional Democrats called his bluff, threatening a government shutdown rather than acceding to his bluster, he slunk away from a demand that Congress start paying for his wasteful border wall — you know, the one Mexico has refused to pay for.

“I thought it would be easier,” Mr. Trump admitted about his job to Reuters this week.

Does he show any signs of learning on the job? In fact, yes. He has backed off dangerous pledges like tearing up the Iran nuclear deal and accusing China of manipulating its currency. He replaced his first national security adviser — the cartoonish Michael Flynn, who turned out to have been on not only the Russian payroll but also the Turkish one — with the formidable Lt. Gen. H. R. McMaster.

But since his risible assertion of “American carnage” in the streets during his Inaugural Address, Mr. Trump has continually fomented fear and bullied vulnerable groups, particularly unauthorized immigrants. He has shown no interest in reaching beyond the minority of Americans who elected him, one reason his approval ratings are the lowest on record for a president at this point in his term.

And what of his central campaign pledge, to make America great again, presumably by creating vast numbers of jobs for those who helped elect him? This may prove the emptiest of his promises. The giant infrastructure program, which would indeed yield jobs, is nowhere to be seen. In its place are proposed tax cuts to benefit mainly the wealthy and photo-op executive orders to deregulate energy businesses that, even if sustained by the courts — a long shot — will merely enrich the likes of the Koch brothers.

Yet if his ratings are dismal, the other measure Mr. Trump has always lived by — his revenue — is booming, as he uses the presidency to promote his properties. His determination to leverage his office to expand his commercial empire is the only objective to which Americans, after 100 days, can be confident this president will stay true."

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2 Re: NYT Editorial Board on 4/30/2017, 9:51 am

All while ignoring the lies and means used to force Obamacaid down our throats. Very useful.

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3 Re: NYT Editorial Board on 4/30/2017, 10:17 am

With time, the ACA has proven to be a quite incredible legislative accomplishment. History will judge the same in a very favorable light. The inability to repeal the same speaks volumes on its merits.

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4 Re: NYT Editorial Board on 4/30/2017, 11:52 pm

PkrBum wrote:All while ignoring the lies and means used to force Obamacaid down our throats. Very useful.

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5 Re: NYT Editorial Board on 5/1/2017, 1:26 am

Great graphic, del. Thanks for posting.

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6 Re: NYT Editorial Board on 5/1/2017, 7:21 am

Irrelevant... healthcare is still a service... not some magical human right.

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7 Re: NYT Editorial Board on 5/1/2017, 8:44 am

PkrBum wrote:Irrelevant... healthcare is still a service... not some magical human right.

No one's saying it is a "magical" human right. Bridges and libraries and National Parks and sewage systems aren't rights either, but governments still provide them to make the country a better place for ALL.

Republicans are just afraid that their corporate overlords might be displeased cut off donations if the government threatens their depraved lust to profit off every human need.

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8 Re: NYT Editorial Board on 5/1/2017, 10:06 am

Those things you've listed are general welfare... meaning a benefit to all. Border enforcement and a ready military to some much smaller degree too. A vast percentage of health issues are brought on by poor habits. What do you propose to mitigate that driving force in healthcare costs? Do you think that the govt will just ignore it? I've found this rush to enslavement repulsive... and i think that's really what has cost the dems their historic decline from local to federal elected leadership. I know y'all think that you're superior... but that doesn't mean shit to people that value their freedom. Trump was supposed to be anti-establishment... just like Obama was supposed to help the little guy...we all lose... again.

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9 Re: NYT Editorial Board on 5/1/2017, 10:29 am

PkrBum wrote: ...but that doesn't mean shit to people that value their freedom.

Exactly what freedom is impinged upon by universal health care?

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10 Re: NYT Editorial Board on 5/1/2017, 11:40 am

del.capslock wrote:
PkrBum wrote: ...but that doesn't mean shit to people that value their freedom.

Exactly what freedom is impinged upon by universal health care?


The mandate... for starters. Further... inviting the govt to control your very body. What it all boils down to beyond that is redistribution... one of the basic tenets of socialism. Will there ever be a line for govt that you think too far? Apparently not. You can't climb back into the womb... sry comrade.

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11 Re: NYT Editorial Board on 5/1/2017, 1:30 pm

del.capslock wrote:
PkrBum wrote:Irrelevant... healthcare is still a service... not some magical human right.

No one's saying it is a "magical" human right. Bridges and libraries and National Parks and sewage systems aren't rights either, but governments still provide them to make the country a better place for ALL.

Republicans are just afraid that their corporate overlords might be displeased cut off donations if the government threatens their depraved lust to profit off every human need.

Exactly!

Public schools aren't a "human right," either, but imagine the shape this country would be in without them.

Whether one wants to look at things like health care as a "service" or otherwise, the fact is that programs that keep our fellow citizens from desperate situations are better for everyone. It doesn't have to be a "human right" to be a good idea.

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12 Re: NYT Editorial Board on 5/1/2017, 1:48 pm

zsomething wrote:
del.capslock wrote:
PkrBum wrote:Irrelevant... healthcare is still a service... not some magical human right.

No one's saying it is a "magical" human right. Bridges and libraries and National Parks and sewage systems aren't rights either, but governments still provide them to make the country a better place for ALL.

Republicans are just afraid that their corporate overlords might be displeased cut off donations if the government threatens their depraved lust to profit off every human need.

Exactly!

Public schools aren't a "human right," either, but imagine the shape this country would be in without them.

Whether one wants to look at things like health care as a "service" or otherwise, the fact is that programs that keep our fellow citizens from desperate situations are better for everyone.  It doesn't have to be a "human right" to be a good idea.  

Lol... classic. We see constant reminders of our failing educational system... but the message is that it'd be worse if the federal govt didn't control it... lol. That's a learned position folks... it doesn't fly in the real world. Ever wonder why govt, religions, cults... all want to educate children? Maybe you should.

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13 Re: NYT Editorial Board on 5/1/2017, 2:09 pm

PkrBum wrote:
del.capslock wrote:
PkrBum wrote: ...but that doesn't mean shit to people that value their freedom.

Exactly what freedom is impinged upon by universal health care?


The mandate... for starters. Further... inviting the govt to control your very body. What it all boils down to beyond that is redistribution... one of the basic tenets of socialism. Will there ever be a line for govt that you think too far? Apparently not. You can't climb back into the womb... sry comrade.

All taxes are a form of redistribution, you idiot! That's how government works.

"...control your very body."  is typical lunatic reactionary rhetoric and utterly false--nobody's trying to "control your very body".

You're "mandated" to have a license and insurance if you drive a car--is that an attempt to "control you very body"?

You're "mandated" to follow traffic rules when you drive--is that an attempt to "control your very body"?

You're "mandated" to refrain from defecating on the sidewalk--is that an attempt to "control your very body"?

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14 Re: NYT Editorial Board on 5/1/2017, 2:13 pm

PkrBum wrote:
zsomething wrote:
del.capslock wrote:
PkrBum wrote:Irrelevant... healthcare is still a service... not some magical human right.

No one's saying it is a "magical" human right. Bridges and libraries and National Parks and sewage systems aren't rights either, but governments still provide them to make the country a better place for ALL.

Republicans are just afraid that their corporate overlords might be displeased cut off donations if the government threatens their depraved lust to profit off every human need.

Exactly!

Public schools aren't a "human right," either, but imagine the shape this country would be in without them.

Whether one wants to look at things like health care as a "service" or otherwise, the fact is that programs that keep our fellow citizens from desperate situations are better for everyone.  It doesn't have to be a "human right" to be a good idea.  

Lol... classic. We see constant reminders of our failing educational system... but the message is that it'd be worse if the federal govt didn't control it... lol. That's a learned position folks... it doesn't fly in the real world. Ever wonder why govt, religions, cults... all want to educate children? Maybe you should.



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15 Re: NYT Editorial Board on 5/1/2017, 3:12 pm

Thanks, FLTX for posting that. It sums up the first 100 days.

I heard that he wrote in his book, The Art of the Deal, that if a client came to visit a job site he would sometimes hire several dump trucks to come in and move dirt around just to make it look as if something was happening. I think this is the executive branch version of the dump truck ploy. So far we've seen a lot of movement but not many results.

For someone who is supposed to be so media savvy it surprises me to hear him admit out loud things like: "Who knew health care was so complicated?!" and admitting that being president is hard work!  

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16 Re: NYT Editorial Board on 5/1/2017, 3:22 pm

PkrBum wrote:
del.capslock wrote:
PkrBum wrote: ...but that doesn't mean shit to people that value their freedom.

Exactly what freedom is impinged upon by universal health care?


The mandate... for starters. Further... inviting the govt to control your very body. What it all boils down to beyond that is redistribution... one of the basic tenets of socialism. Will there ever be a line for govt that you think too far? Apparently not. You can't climb back into the womb... sry comrade.

In a perfect world we could do away with the mandate altogether by simply having universal health care like all the other developed countries on the planet but such a great percentage of our economy is based on this private insurance system we have now it would be too disruptive to just wipe it out over night, but it certainly could be phased out. That is the best idea. Phase in Medicare one year at a time, 64,63, 62 etc. until everyone is covered.

Stop letting pharmaceuticals charge whatever they want, that's another problem. Why do the charge Americans so much more than people in other countries? Because they can. They will still be rewarded for the research they do but not at the rate they are now.

The freedom to not have health insurance is also the freedom to get too sick to cure and just die. Healthy people are more productive. It benefits everyone when people have good health care.

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17 Re: NYT Editorial Board on 5/1/2017, 3:41 pm

othershoe1030 wrote:
PkrBum wrote:
del.capslock wrote:
PkrBum wrote: ...but that doesn't mean shit to people that value their freedom.

Exactly what freedom is impinged upon by universal health care?


The mandate... for starters. Further... inviting the govt to control your very body. What it all boils down to beyond that is redistribution... one of the basic tenets of socialism. Will there ever be a line for govt that you think too far? Apparently not. You can't climb back into the womb... sry comrade.

In a perfect world we could do away with the mandate altogether by simply having universal health care like all the other developed countries on the planet but such a great percentage of our economy is based on this private insurance system we have now it would be too disruptive to just wipe it out over night, but it certainly could be phased out. That is the best idea. Phase in Medicare one year at a time, 64,63, 62 etc. until everyone is covered.

Stop letting pharmaceuticals charge whatever they want, that's another problem. Why do the charge Americans so much more than people in other countries? Because they can. They will still be rewarded for the research they do but not at the rate they are now.

The freedom to not have health insurance is also the freedom to get too sick to cure and just die. Healthy people are more productive. It benefits everyone when people have good health care.

Then what do you propose for bad habits? Obesity, smoking, alcoholism, drug abuse, extreme risks, poor genetics... etc. Those will be factors in socialized healthcare... count on it. Then of course we have the collusion between the govt and huge corp healthcare that essentially created cartels to monopolize the services... which totally shoots down the continued talkingpoint about us having a private system. We don't... we never really have since the origin of insurance which was union risk pools and fdr salary controls. Look at how hospitals use programs like CON... how insurance uses govt regulations to limit competition... how big pharma uses the fda to squeeze out foreign drugs and small private innovation and research. It's a bastardized system built upon govt controls. But what's the leftist solution? More govt controls... lol.

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18 Re: NYT Editorial Board on 5/1/2017, 4:17 pm

PkrBum wrote:
Then what do you propose for bad habits? Obesity, smoking, alcoholism,  drug abuse,  extreme risks,  poor genetics... etc. Those will be factors in socialized healthcare... count on it. Then of course we have the collusion between the govt and huge corp healthcare that essentially created cartels to monopolize the services... which totally shoots down the continued talkingpoint about us having a private system. We don't... we never really have since the origin of insurance which was union risk pools and fdr salary controls. Look at how hospitals use programs like CON... how insurance uses govt regulations to limit competition... how big pharma uses the fda to squeeze out foreign drugs and small private innovation and research. It's a bastardized system built upon govt controls. But what's the leftist solution? More govt controls... lol.


This is a fat lot of horseshit! Every other developed nation can manage all this crap, but you're saying the US can't?  HA! How unpatriotic!

FDR salary controls? It was Nixon, that exemplary Republican, who instituted wage and price controls on August 15, 1971. Either you don't know what the fuck you're talking about or you're a liar.

The origin of insurance was union risk pools? You dumb son-of-a-bitch! Distributed risk was practiced as far back at 2000 BCE by Babylonian traders. It was even recorded in the Code of Hammurabi.  More lies and ignorant horseshit from the right.

You're sitting at a computer connected to the internet and have access to the largest body of collected information in the history of mankind yet you choose to remain ignorant. If that ain't a bad habit, I don't know what is.

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19 Re: NYT Editorial Board on 5/1/2017, 4:26 pm

del.capslock wrote:
PkrBum wrote:
Then what do you propose for bad habits? Obesity, smoking, alcoholism,  drug abuse,  extreme risks,  poor genetics... etc. Those will be factors in socialized healthcare... count on it. Then of course we have the collusion between the govt and huge corp healthcare that essentially created cartels to monopolize the services... which totally shoots down the continued talkingpoint about us having a private system. We don't... we never really have since the origin of insurance which was union risk pools and fdr salary controls. Look at how hospitals use programs like CON... how insurance uses govt regulations to limit competition... how big pharma uses the fda to squeeze out foreign drugs and small private innovation and research. It's a bastardized system built upon govt controls. But what's the leftist solution? More govt controls... lol.


This is a fat lot of horseshit! Every other developed nation can manage all this crap, but you're saying the US can't?  HA! How unpatriotic!

FDR salary controls? It was Nixon, that exemplary Republican, who instituted wage and price controls on August 15, 1971. Either you don't know what the fuck you're talking about or you're a liar.

The origin of insurance was union risk pools? You dumb son-of-a-bitch! Distributed risk was practiced as far back at 2000 BCE by Babylonian traders. It was even recorded in the Code of Hammurabi.  More lies and ignorant horseshit from the right.

You're sitting at a computer connected to the internet and have access to the largest body of collected information in the history of mankind yet you choose to remain ignorant. If that ain't a bad habit, I don't know what is.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stabilization_Act_of_1942

And i was obviously speaking to health insurance in this country... cmon. There were some precursors... like a single state ins as early as the 1910's. But an in earnest negotiated plan was what i described.

What's your deal? Is this sock just to throw out dispersion? It's cowardly... why don't you man up... boy.

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20 Re: NYT Editorial Board on 5/1/2017, 4:37 pm

othershoe1030 wrote:Thanks, FLTX for posting that. It sums up the first 100 days.

I heard that he wrote in his book, The Art of the Deal, that if a client came to visit a job site he would sometimes hire several dump trucks to come in and move dirt around just to make it look as if something was happening. I think this is the executive branch version of the dump truck ploy. So far we've seen a lot of movement but not many results.

For someone who is supposed to be so media savvy it surprises me to hear him admit out loud things like: "Who knew health care was so complicated?!" and admitting that being president is hard work!  

He should have titled his book THE ART OF THE SHADY DEAL...much more accurate.

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21 Re: NYT Editorial Board on 5/1/2017, 4:43 pm

Hey, PkrBitch, Are you on some kind of psych meds or something?

See your doctor and get 'em adjusted because you're not making a lot of sense.

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22 Re: NYT Editorial Board on 5/1/2017, 4:44 pm

PkrBum wrote:
del.capslock wrote:
PkrBum wrote:
Then what do you propose for bad habits? Obesity, smoking, alcoholism,  drug abuse,  extreme risks,  poor genetics... etc. Those will be factors in socialized healthcare... count on it. Then of course we have the collusion between the govt and huge corp healthcare that essentially created cartels to monopolize the services... which totally shoots down the continued talkingpoint about us having a private system. We don't... we never really have since the origin of insurance which was union risk pools and fdr salary controls. Look at how hospitals use programs like CON... how insurance uses govt regulations to limit competition... how big pharma uses the fda to squeeze out foreign drugs and small private innovation and research. It's a bastardized system built upon govt controls. But what's the leftist solution? More govt controls... lol.


This is a fat lot of horseshit! Every other developed nation can manage all this crap, but you're saying the US can't?  HA! How unpatriotic!

FDR salary controls? It was Nixon, that exemplary Republican, who instituted wage and price controls on August 15, 1971. Either you don't know what the fuck you're talking about or you're a liar.

The origin of insurance was union risk pools? You dumb son-of-a-bitch! Distributed risk was practiced as far back at 2000 BCE by Babylonian traders. It was even recorded in the Code of Hammurabi.  More lies and ignorant horseshit from the right.

You're sitting at a computer connected to the internet and have access to the largest body of collected information in the history of mankind yet you choose to remain ignorant. If that ain't a bad habit, I don't know what is.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stabilization_Act_of_1942

And i was obviously speaking to health insurance in this country... cmon. There were some precursors... like a single state ins as early as the 1910's. But an in earnest negotiated plan was what i described.

What's your deal? Is this sock just to throw out dispersion? It's cowardly... why don't you man up... boy.

Why don't you put a sock in it, Peckerboy? I realize it's hard for you to elucidate your incoherent rantings, but try to do it without insulting everyone in the process.

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23 Re: NYT Editorial Board on 5/1/2017, 4:50 pm

Floridatexan wrote:

Why don't you put a sock in it, Peckerboy?  I realize it's hard for you to elucidate your incoherent rantings, but try to do it without insulting everyone in the process.

YEAH! You go, girl!

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24 Re: NYT Editorial Board on 5/1/2017, 4:53 pm

PkrBum wrote:

Lol... classic. We see constant reminders of our failing educational system... but the message is that it'd be worse if the federal govt didn't control it... lol. That's a learned position folks... it doesn't fly in the real world. Ever wonder why govt, religions, cults... all want to educate children? Maybe you should.

Yeah, yeah, "lol" whatever.  I guess we should beware of whatever system taught you grammar.   You gettin' paid by the elipsis?  Half your stuff looks like Morse code.

I'll tell you a true story, from the real world, if you want to hear it (spoiler alert: you don't, because - like most true stories - it doesn't fit your bullshit).

My high school was a private academy.  My parents thought about sending me to public school, but I was gifted as a kid and they figured maybe I'd be handled better at a smaller private school.

Good intentions, but, you know where those lead.

The place turned out to be frickin' ridiculous.  We learned next to nothing in most classes.  Science was a no-no because it went against Southern Baptist doctrine.  Same with history.  One year I had about eight different algebra teachers, because they kept quitting.   A couple were some classmate's mom who "knew some math."  One was a coach whose idea of algebra was to tell us, "Ya know that Z-28 Camaro?  Well, that Z-28 part, that's like algebra.  'Cuz it's got numbers and letters."   So does "I.Q. 32," but I didn't figure I should inform him of that.

 They shoved religion down our throats more than anything else.  That seemed to be the top priority of the place.  I've been a non-believer since birth, so I found that annoying, but, I played along.   That didn't really matter, though, because the mere fact that I didn't go to church got me in a lot of fights.  I got knives pulled on me twice behind some "yew better be in church this Sunday, devil-worshiper!" horseshit.  We most definitely had to pray in school (devotions were piped in on the PA system every morning) but my classmates were a bunch of mean-ass drunks, thieves, racists, fornicatin' and gambling and you name it.   Conservative religion, it turns out, doesn't work much better than conservative economics.   And I don't really care about the occasional sin, but if somebody's going to preach it, then they damnsure better practice if if they don't want to be hypocrites.  They were also pretty violent... until they found out you'd punch them in their fuckin' face instead of just wrestling around like they wanted to, and then they were cowards.  Then they'd come at you in a pack... until they found out you'd punch them, anyway, and then none of 'em wanted to take a chance on being the one that got hit.  Do that a few times and you get left alone.

The teachers weren't a whole lot better.  They'd bully kids, sometimes in pretty depraved ways.  One guy got off on paddling people, hard, just because it was their birthday.  He especially liked paddling girls.  When one girl told her dad (who was a preacher) about it, he spent a class humiliating her by taking her shoes away and beating erasers on 'em.  It was disturbing.  Some teachers used racial slurs and told racist jokes on a regular basis;  the school was all white, so they felt safe doing it.  Teachers would spread rumors about students, especially the ones from poorer families.  It was sick.

Anyway, when I graduated, I went to the local university, and quickly discovered how completely awful my private school education had been.  I was going to classes with people who'd gone to the local public school, and every one of them had gotten a FAR better education than I had.  Their math was top-notch, they actually had computer skills (back in the 80's), and a lot of the literature they'd already had in their English classes had never been touched in mine.  History and science in college was just a refresher course for them, because they'd already been well-prepared for it.  The public school kids knew their stuff.

Luckily I was a pretty smart kid and did a lot of reading on my own, so I managed to catch up pretty well, but my old classmates from the academy struggled, and a lot of them ended up dropping out of college when they saw how badly-prepared they'd been.  Most of 'em are working on dairy farms now.

So, just from what I've witnessed in my own experience, public schools give you a much  better education.  It's not even close.

Now, you mentioned something about cults?   That academy I went to was aggressive cult indoctrination.  We got it hammered into us all day.  It's even worse now -- that academy has two required religion classes for every student, every day, mandatory now.  It's basically the Southern Baptist version of a madrassa.

While we're telling each other what we should think about, did you ever think about why Trump is putting Betsy DeVos in charge of the educational system, when she's on record for wanting to get rid of public schools?   It's exactly because of cult indoctrination.   Public schools aren't allowed to cram religion (and politically-charged religion in particular) down a student's throat.  Private schools are... and that's what conservatives want. They want the kids.   That's what the private school thing is about.

If they can get you so unable to use logic that you'll believe some whackaloon horseshit about a 6000-year-old earth betrayed by a talking snake, then some other myth like trickle-down economics becomes an easy sell.  They want to take away kids' tools to reject their scams.  

Then they end up with useless idiots.   And sell a lot of stupid-looking hats.

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25 Re: NYT Editorial Board on 5/1/2017, 4:53 pm

Who's been insulting who? This thread is one page... try to give it an honest read and then answer.

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