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I actually agree with President Trump cutting back jurisdiction of ACE on jurisdictional waters

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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/02/28/trump-targets-obama-era-water-regulation-in-new-executive-order.html

I work with a drainage district in Illinois and the ACE has gone insane. I understand regulations of navigable water, but today if a farmer has five years of wet weather or broken tiles, and does not plow a low area of the field, the regulators declare that field to be a jurisdictional wetland......insane, as now farmer loses fertile soil which they have farmed since the 1800s to some fricking bureaucrat who tells them they cannot fix the tile or bring a tractor into the area. About time.

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What's the result? The small family farm can't defend themselves... while the corp farms take over.

What would you call such a policy?

Be honest.

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2seaoat wrote:http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/02/28/trump-targets-obama-era-water-regulation-in-new-executive-order.html

I work with a drainage district in Illinois and the ACE has gone insane.  I understand regulations of navigable water, but today if a farmer has five years of wet weather or broken tiles, and does not plow a low area of the field, the regulators declare that field to be a jurisdictional wetland......insane, as now farmer loses fertile soil which they have farmed since the 1800s to some fricking bureaucrat who tells them they cannot fix the tile or bring a tractor into the area.  About time.

I understand your concerns, but you have to admit that the wetlands regulations have been ignored many times. I don't recall, for instance, Portofino doing its mitigation. I wonder how that was overlooked.

How do you feel about this?:

(Bernie Sanders FB page:)

Of all the absurd statements I heard from Donald Trump last night in his speech, perhaps the most absurd was when he expressed his desire to “promote clean air and clear water.” I had a hard time not laughing. Remember, this is a president who yesterday signed an executive order rolling back the Clean Water Rule to protect our drinking water from pollution. This is a president who appointed a man who does not believe in environmental protection to be head of the Environmental Protection Agency. This is a president who in his first week in office signed an order to advance two major fossil fuel pipelines. Mr. Trump, stop the hypocrisy. Own up to the fact that so far you are the most anti-environmental president that we have had in modern history.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-clean-water-rule-executive-order_us_58b5add8e4b0a8a9b78681b9

Trump Signs Executive Order Urging Dismantling Of Clean Water Rule


Farmers need to quit using chemicals made by Monsanto, Dow and Sygenta. I happen to have a subscription to Florida Agriculture because of my insurance. I see a lot of pro-chemical propaganda, but the real research...not that done by the corporations...says these chemicals are not safe. And if the unmentionable one and his minions do away with the federal EPA, how will the environmental practices of states that impact other states be resolved?

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I deal with agricultural drainage problems at a meeting once a month. Illinois has the richest farm soils in the nation. Illinois was basically one big swamp and wetland when settlers began sinking clay drain tiles in the 1890s which with the john deere plow which could cut the deep prairie roots and allow Illinois to become a breadbasket for the world with its corn and soybeam production. Farmers were given legislative power to form drainage districts which took the tiles and set up systems to allow the water to drain properly off the agricultural fields. I am involved with farmers who farm two hundred acres and farmers who farm thousands of acres. In 1970 a class A soil farm in Illinois could produce 100 bushels of corn. Today you are seeing top yields approaching 220 bushels as America is feeding the world. In our district we have one open ditch where the drain tiles feed the open ditch which joins a creek, and about ten miles from the ditch. The water is clean and can be drank right from the ditch. A local boy scout camp used to have hand pumps which as a kid we would simply pump this clean water from a four foot water table which was cold and clear.

Well these farmers about a decade ago started having portions of their field declared jurisdictional wetlands because of broken tiles. This was absurd. To take productive farmland which a century ago was true wetland, and stop production on five acres because no tractor is allowed in a wetland has NOTHING to do with the quality of the water, chemicals, or other collateral agricultural issues. It is plan and simple stupid. Where bureaucrats simply have gotten too much power, and Bernie is wrong on this specific issue. Sure the extractive industries are going to try to repeal the clean water act, but my specific joy is about the repeal of the automatic inclusion of agricultural lands in jurisdictional waters. jurisdictional waters were once navigable water.....now it can be a wet spot on a field where the tile is broken which stops farming on that area, and does not allow the repair of the tile. People just spew nonsense about what they do not know or understand. In Illinois the eagles, hawks, and wildlife have never been more abundant as farm practices have become extremely environmentally friendly and no till farming has caused huge advances in limiting erosion as the huge dead area in the gulf is from poor farming practices for the first half of the century. The repeal of the rule was good.

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2seaoat wrote:I deal with agricultural drainage problems at a meeting once a month.  Illinois has the richest farm soils in the nation.  Illinois was basically one big swamp and wetland when settlers began sinking clay drain tiles in the 1890s which with the john deere plow which could cut the deep prairie roots and allow Illinois to become a breadbasket for the world with its corn and soybeam production.  Farmers were given legislative power to form drainage districts which took the tiles and set up systems to allow the water to drain properly off the agricultural fields.  I am involved with farmers who farm two hundred acres and farmers who farm thousands of acres.  In 1970 a class A soil farm in Illinois could produce 100 bushels of corn.  Today you are seeing top yields approaching 220 bushels as America is feeding the world.  In our district we have one open ditch where the drain tiles feed the open ditch which joins a creek, and about ten miles from the ditch.   The water is clean and can be drank right from the ditch.  A local boy scout camp used to have hand pumps which as a kid we would simply pump this clean water from a four foot water table which was cold and clear.

Well these farmers about a decade ago started having portions of their field declared jurisdictional wetlands because of broken tiles.   This was absurd.  To take productive farmland which a century ago was true wetland, and stop production on five acres because no tractor is allowed in a wetland has NOTHING to do with the quality of the water, chemicals, or other collateral agricultural issues.   It is plan and simple stupid.  Where bureaucrats simply have gotten too much power, and Bernie is wrong on this specific issue.   Sure the extractive industries are going to try to repeal the clean water act, but my specific joy is about the repeal of the automatic inclusion of agricultural lands in jurisdictional waters.   jurisdictional waters were once navigable water.....now it can be a wet spot on a field where the tile is broken which stops farming on that area, and does not allow the repair of the tile.  People just spew nonsense about what they do not know or understand.  In Illinois the eagles, hawks, and wildlife have never been more abundant as farm practices have become extremely environmentally friendly and no till farming has caused huge advances in limiting erosion as the huge dead area in the gulf is from poor farming practices for the first half of the century.  The repeal of the rule was good.

It doesn't matter what your crop yield is if your final product is toxic, banned in several countries, depletes the soil and water and kills microbes and earthworms.

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Illinois corn and soybeans feed the world. Most of the restrictions go back fifty years where competing protective tariffs brought retaliation, and it was the french farmers who began saying American agricultural products were harmful....plain and simple trade war where no nation can match the efficiency and quality of American farm products. Sorry but that is just the fuzzy thinking which does not get Democrats elected.

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2seaoat wrote:Illinois corn and soybeans feed the world.  Most of the restrictions go back fifty years where competing protective tariffs brought retaliation, and it was the french farmers who began saying American agricultural products were harmful....plain and simple trade war where no nation can match the efficiency and quality of American farm products.  Sorry but that is just the fuzzy thinking which does not get Democrats elected.

Why don't you research the countries that have banned glyphosate, the organic farmers who have been victimized in the courts by Monsanto. I may be tired, but my thinking is rarely fuzzy. That is actually the 2nd time in this thread you have insulted me. I didn't grow up on a farm, but many of my relatives were farmers...some still are...and I went to their farms and picked corn, etc. many times. GMO's are dangerous...research that as well. What do you think is killing bees? Why do you think autism is on the rise? Why do you think farmers in India, for example, were committing suicide? What do you think happens to farm laborers who are constantly exposed to "Round-up"?

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We will just have to agree to disagree. You are jumping all over the place to blame bees, suicides in India, and the dangers of Illinois corn and soybeans. They are perfectly safe. As to bees,

One piece of evidence that did not comply with previous findings is that long-term exposure to small doses of neonicotinoids did not compromise the bees' immune systems. The hives became infected just as often when there were no neonicotinoids present.

I personally believe that chemicals do add to bee mortality, but it far more complex as there many factors impacting bees. In regard to suicides in India, Monsanto's business model is brutal and monopolistic, yet people are not starving across the world as we have just about doubled our productivity of food in America and there are certainly trade offs. However, to say we have unsafe crops which are hurting people, or being the cause of autism is not yet proven by any reliable science. They certainly contribute to bee mortality, but as the quote above establishes, there is strong contradictory evidence which means that this is far more complex than the simplistic conclusion that if it is not organic.......it is not safe.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/are-pesticides-killing-off-honey-bees/

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